Amillennialists...Here's a chance to state your case.

[eternally-gratefull]

Well either the Olivet Discourse holds as a unit or it does not .... now some argue that Jesus went from the "this generation" and at some point begins to speak to the far future....however I do not see it and the person refused to tell me

The disciples asked three questions

1. When will these things be (in response to jesus question, not one stone will be left)
2. What will be the sign of your coming (refers to all the OT prophecies concerning when messiah shall come and set up his kingdom)
3. And the end of the Age (most likely, the end of this age which had begun when Jesus said it is finished, and resurrected from the dead. 0r the period which will culminate in his return)

The things Jesus said could not happen in the few small years they would be living on earth (nation will rise against nation, Kingdom against kingdom is one example. There was only one kingdom in the 1st century, and that was rome) Jesus was explaining events which will occurs in the time period between the time he left and the end of the age. Not what would happen in the next few decades

The generation of the disciples did not see nation rise against nation, kingdom against kingdom. They did not witness the birth pangs (series of catastrophic events which would occurs on the earth) They did nto “SEE” the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place.
So if they did not see any of tese things, You must interpret scripture in a way that those things fit in. Not just make them fit (where they do not)

You may think it is just easy to put them all in, it fits, Well it only fits if you diminish what was said.. or try too squeeze them into something where they do not fit (like trying to force a ball into a square hole)

 

[UnderGrace]

There was only one kingdom in the 1st century, and that was rome

Mr. EG...... I really think you need to do a bit of research on this.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Mr. EG...... I really think you need to do a bit of research on this.

What research

There was ROME

Even Isreal was just a nation state, All of the nations inside the kingdom were nation states, not just nations.. They were basically slave nations.

Kingdom will rise against kingdom

Nation against nation

Look at the last 2000 years.

Now in perspective, look at the lst 100 years (two great wars and many more smaller wars) not to mention the cold war. Look even today, Three giants with the ability to wipe mankind and all life off the face of the earth!

And then look at history

Like birth pangs,

Wars get stronger

They come with more frequency

Theologians call this “labor pain” or exponential rise in frequency and severity, just like a woman goes through when she suffers labor pains. The closer she gets to giving birth, the contractions exponentioally get closer together (more frequent0 and increase exponentially in strength.

 

[crossnote]

I would think it refers to the phrase the "last day" or the "day of the Lord" the end of time used in John 6 times .The day of the ressurection of those asleep in Christ and those remaining here simultaneously meeting together in the power of His Spirit. They will have received the promised new bodies and in the same twinkling of the eye, like a thief in the night the second death will be raised and thrown into the lake of fire the second death never to rise to new spirt life ever again .

John 11:24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 12:48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

I wasn't referring to the resurrection but this...

Daniel 12:11 KJVS
[11] And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

The 1290 days is the issue. How does the amill and preterist fit them into their 'scheme of things'?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I wasn't referring to the resurrection but this...

Daniel 12:11 KJVS
[11] And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

The 1290 days is the issue. How does the amill and preterist fit them into their 'scheme of things'?

You have asked this question multiple times these past few days, Has anyone answered it?

To me it seems like a pretty straight forward question, Why does it seem so hard?

 

[garee]

The 2 Sam 7 throne on earth in the millennial reign.

God is not a man as us. The one time promised demonstration of the unseen work of the father pouring out the cup of wrath on the corrupted flesh of the Son of man, Jesus is over, (2 Corinthian 5:16)

There will be no earthly throne standing in the Holy unseen place of the glory of God. That glory will not be revealed until the two time keepers Sun and moon that were switched on, onday four used to show a corrupted creation will be replaced with new (the whole creation).

Corruption does not put-on incorruptible .As a wolf in sheep clothing. The reformation came. We are in that last days. The signified word thousand represents a unknown. We walk by faith, the golden measuring tool not by sight the measure of man or witness thereof . The end as we know it will come on the last day . The former things will not be remembered or ever come to mind. (universal Alzheimer's)

And I saw no temple (no literal throne) therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the "light" thereof.And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. Revelation21:22-25

 

[garee]

You have asked this question multiple times these past few days, Has anyone answered it?

To me it seems like a pretty straight forward question, Why does it seem so hard?

The 1290 days does not represent the end of the world. But a tribulation for a outward Jew that continues to this day ,they are still in unbelief. How would it affect a end time scenario and make a difference between the camps?

 

[iamsoandso]

Well either the Olivet Discourse holds as a unit or it does not .... now some argue that Jesus went from the "this generation" and at some point begins to speak to the far future....however I do not see it and the person refused to tell me

You made the comment in the from of an apology that you were not just focused on this thread and were going back and forth and so distracted. In about page 46,post #912 we discussed Matthew 24:3 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/24-3.htm and Matthew 24:34 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/24-34.htm

In those pages,46,47,48 ect. we discussed the usage of "generation/age" and the way someone who was raised in Judaism would see those words as meaning and the way we use them today. Also we discussed if the disciples were asking about his coming meaning the first or second coming and Scripture supports that they at the time of Matt.24:3 that they did not think Jesus would die and return at that time(Matt.24 time-frame).

Mabye they are not refusing to tell you,it might be that they assume that you were following along with the thread and are fully aware of the things we have already discussed. In any event instead of me repeating this here it would be less time consuming if you go back to about page 46 and read through what we discussed about the two Scriptures I gave here in this post.

 

[crossnote]

You have asked this question multiple times these past few days, Has anyone answered it?

To me it seems like a pretty straight forward question, Why does it seem so hard?

No one has. When I ask it they bring up another part of the verse or another verse altogether in Daniel 12 e.g. 12:2, that is why I end up asking multiple times.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No one has. When I ask it they bring up another part of the verse or another verse altogether in Daniel 12 e.g. 12:2, that is why I end up asking multiple times.

And keep asking it,, Maybe one day you will get an answer/

 

[azamzimtoti]

So you see it as literal and not spiritual seeing you in your post you say it was the duration of the first revolt?

It's hard to say whether the 1st "revolt" was the start of Daniel's "time, times, and half a time" Mr. Sas as there is not enough detail.

What I do find interesting is John's usage of the same motif in his revelation:

(Rev 12:14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. )

If we correlate the term "the woman" to the 1st century Jewish believers in Christ, then the "flying into the wilderness" is the fleeing from Judea of Matt, Mark and Luke in the 1st century Roman war.

(Mark 13:14 “So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet standing where it ought not” (let the reader understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. )

(Luke 21:20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.)

(Luke 21:21 “Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. )

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's hard to say whether the 1st "revolt" was the start of Daniel's "time, times, and half a time" Mr. Sas as there is not enough detail.

What I do find interesting is John's usage of the same motif in his revelation:

(Rev 12:14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. )

If we correlate the term "the woman" to the 1st century Jewish believers in Christ, then the "flying into the wilderness" is the fleeing from Judea of Matt, Mark and Luke in the 1st century Roman war.

(Mark 13:14 “So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet standing where it ought not” (let the reader understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. )

(Luke 21:20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.)

(Luke 21:21 “Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. )

There is only one problem

The woman in Rev 12 was protected. And the beast could not touch her, Which angered the beast and he went ofter her offspring.

There is nothing like this in AD 70 time period.

Israel (the woman) was not protected. She was punished harshly just like Jesus and OT Prophets said she would be.

 

[iamsoandso]

It's hard to say whether the 1st "revolt" was the start of Daniel's "time, times, and half a time" Mr. Sas as there is not enough detail.

What I do find interesting is John's usage of the same motif in his revelation:

(Rev 12:14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. )

If we correlate the term "the woman" to the 1st century Jewish believers in Christ, then the "flying into the wilderness" is the fleeing from Judea of Matt, Mark and Luke in the 1st century Roman war.

(Mark 13:14 “So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet standing where it ought not” (let the reader understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. )

(Luke 21:20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.)

(Luke 21:21 “Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. )

In post #1491 you stated that it was in fact the duration of the war ad66-70 but now you said that there was just not enough detail so I take your post as a presumption on your part and that you now see it without enough detail. I hope you understand that if we are discussing the AoD,mark of the beast ect. from an Amill veiw it could prove quite dangerous if we set some things in place based on hunches rather than facts supported by Scriptures .

 

[cv5]

There is a resurrection for the saved and another for those who are not saved. If you belong to the body of Christ you already have eternal life because Christ lives in you. Those who are Christs will be rewarded according to their works. The matter of salvation is settled as soon as we are born again.

Great message from http://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/27-30

 

[UnderGrace]

(Your avatar)
But I really want to know your take on Dan 12:11.

Mr. Crossnote.... change of schedule the Cool Paw Cat discourse on Daniel 12 will need to wait another day Toronto Raptors play tonight and that takes precedence....I am sure you understand.

 

[crossnote]

Mr. Crossnote.... change of schedule the Cool Paw Cat discourse on Daniel 12 will need to wait another day Toronto Raptors play tonight and that takes precedence....I am sure you understand.

Sure Cool Paw, enjoy. I hear Toronto (home of Glenn Gould) is winning.

 

[azamzimtoti]

In post #1491 you stated that it was in fact the duration of the war ad66-70 but now you said that there was just not enough detail so I take your post as a presumption on your part and that you now see it without enough detail. I hope you understand that if we are discussing the AoD,mark of the beast ect. from an Amill veiw it could prove quite dangerous if we set some things in place based on hunches rather than facts supported by Scriptures .

I'm saying I don't know the exact date, it's said to be in 66 AD - fall-ish.

 

[azamzimtoti]

There is only one problem

The woman in Rev 12 was protected. And the beast could not touch her, Which angered the beast and he went ofter her offspring.

There is nothing like this in AD 70 time period.

Israel (the woman) was not protected. She was punished harshly just like Jesus and OT Prophets said she would be.

I think you are mixing and matching scriptures EG.

Israel after the flesh (who are said to have been guilty of the innocent blood of the prophets) and the Jewish remnant (Israel of the promise) who were told to flee are two different "entities".

(Rev 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. )

Israel after the flesh upon whom the wrath of God fell did not "have the testimony of Jesus Christ "

(Gal 4:29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. )

(Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”

 

[garee]

There is only one problem

The woman in Rev 12 was protected. And the beast could not touch her, Which angered the beast and he went ofter her offspring.

There is nothing like this in AD 70 time period.

Israel (the woman) was not protected. She was punished harshly just like Jesus and OT Prophets said she would be.

Israel (the woman) as the bride of Christ is protected .God gave her a new name in Acts, Christian, a name that literally means; "residents of the city of Christ" named after her husband Christ . She will come down on the last day when the Sun and the moon no longer are needed. She is wrapped in the righteousness of her husband Christ . The Sun and moon the two temporal time keeper are under her feet. Its the end of time, the glory of God now as it did the first three days light the new creation.

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. Revelation 21:22-25

And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. Revelation 12 King James Version (KJV)

 

[iamsoandso]

I'm saying I don't know the exact date, it's said to be 66 AD - fall-ish.

It still makes no sense to begin at any point in that time frame. In Daniel 12 the question is ask "how long..." and the answer is given as "a time,times,and a half" but it is in aspect to the time frame of Daniel 12(date written) not from 3.5 years before ad70. https://biblehub.com/interlinear/daniel/12.htm