Amillennialists...Here's a chance to state your case.

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tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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Why are you not still a Baptist?
I left my original church because I moved to another location. I still consider myself a Baptist but after some forty years Denomination
labels have far less importance to me than they did then. I am happy to worship anywhere that the Lord is proclaimed in spirit and in truth.
 
Apr 3, 2019
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Right, that passage wasn't speaking to physical circumcision either.
Which? This one?

(Ezekiel 44:9 this is what the sovereign LORD says: No foreigner, who is uncircumcised in heart and flesh among all the foreigners who are among the people of Israel, will enter into my sanctuary.)

Seems to me it is being circumcised in the flesh and the heart.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 KJV
[3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come , except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; [4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Paul was speaking of the temple that was then standing when he wrote, otherwise, unless he had mentioned a third temple the Corinthians wouldn't have a clue what he was speaking about.

And how would they (the you) in verse 3 be deceived 2000 years later?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
In the dispensational pre-mill, pre-trib rapture theory there needs to be a rebuilt temple in the new literal millennial reign of Christ correct?

According to dispensationalists, the millennium will be a period of history in which God reverts back to fulfilling His Old Testament promises made to ethnic Israel, after this modern “Church Age” in which we live today is concluded. As such, the millennium will be a state of Jewish dominion over all the world, along with a newly restored Jewish temple and priesthood.

https://www.gotquestions.org/dispensational-premillennialism.html
Do you know what prophecy is sis?

It is the fortelling of future things

It does not mean we NEED a temple (to be saved or to restore sacrifice) what it means, is that God looked forward in time, and he saw a new temple.

Why is that temple rebuilt? It does not say, nor does it have to

Do you know at this very moment Israel is in the plans to rebuild the temple.? They have everything they need, If the last thing comes to place. The temple can be rebuilt in probably less than a few years. Maybe even less time.

Pre-mill people see in prophesy it will be rebuilt because God said it would, (Not because we need it)


Amill believes it will nto be rebuilt. They take a symbolic interpretation. Which destroys the meaning and purpose of prophecy (to prove to the world GOD is the ONE TRUE GOD.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
If Jesus is ruling in the upcoming millennium with the old laws in place, this puts into question Christians who are not circumcised at odds with the templetons.

Also we then have Paul's statement about physical circumcision being invalidated
This makes no sense.

Not do people believe this.

Circumcision was only for the jews. If the law was put back in place. Then it would STILL only be for the jews.

And it would NOT be a means of salvation, it never was.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Good question.

(Ezekiel 44:9 this is what the sovereign LORD says: No foreigner, who is uncircumcised in heart and flesh among all the foreigners who are among the people of Israel, will enter into my sanctuary.)

The above seems to be in direct contradiction to what Paul says about circumcision in the flesh.
It says no gentile who is unsaved shall enter the temple.

Do you disagree with this? I do.

His physical circumcision has no bearing, it is his spiritual circumcision which is in question.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
He's not speaking to physical circumcision.

In regards to a third temple I don't see the new testament (gospels, letters, or John's Apocalypse) mentioning one.
Why would they? What importance would it serve?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
He's not speaking to physical circumcision.

In regards to a third temple I don't see the new testament (gospels, letters, or John's Apocalypse) mentioning one.
By the way, Jesus did, WHen he mentioned the abomination of desolation STANING in the holy place as spoken of by daniel the prophet which would be the sign the tribulation has begum.

This has YET to be fulfilled (titus did not do this, he destroyed the temple. He did not desecrate the holy place.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Um no, He w
Which? This one?

(Ezekiel 44:9 this is what the sovereign LORD says: No foreigner, who is uncircumcised in heart and flesh among all the foreigners who are among the people of Israel, will enter into my sanctuary.)

Seems to me it is being circumcised in the flesh and the heart.



Paul was speaking of the temple that was then standing when he wrote, otherwise, unless he had mentioned a third temple the Corinthians wouldn't have a clue what he was speaking about.

And how would they (the you) in verse 3 be deceived 2000 years later?
Um no, He was not.

The man of sin has yet to come.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
2,055
1,524
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According to dispensationalists, the millennium will be a period of history in which God reverts back to fulfilling His Old Testament promises made to ethnic Israel, after this modern “Church Age” in which we live today is concluded. As such, the millennium will be a state of Jewish dominion over all the world, along with a newly restored Jewish temple and priesthood.

https://www.gotquestions.org/dispensational-premillennialism.html
i dont believe that. jewish dominion? thats not a christian doctrine then.

is that true?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
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Which? This one?

(Ezekiel 44:9 this is what the sovereign LORD says: No foreigner, who is uncircumcised in heart and flesh among all the foreigners who are among the people of Israel, will enter into my sanctuary.)

Seems to me it is being circumcised in the flesh and the heart.
No, this one...

Philippians 3:3 (KJV) For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Paul was speaking of a future Temple in 2Thess 2:3-4
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
I think the next temple to be built will be the one that the antichrist steps in and announces he is god. But that is a different one than the one described in Ezek chaps 40-48.
I lived through rapture times, books, fear, you can keep nice middle class life,
come to Christ, or be tortured under the anti-Christ.

It was a fear based appeal. And it was wrong, because the foundations of wealth
and security are not what Jesus is built upon.

So my question is, so what if I ignore these theories, it will not effect the outcome,
I should rather focus on following Christ and being a light to the world.
Is this not a better approach to take?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
I lived through rapture times, books, fear, you can keep nice middle class life,
come to Christ, or be tortured under the anti-Christ.

It was a fear based appeal. And it was wrong, because the foundations of wealth
and security are not what Jesus is built upon.

So my question is, so what if I ignore these theories, it will not effect the outcome,
I should rather focus on following Christ and being a light to the world.
Is this not a better approach to take?
You can ignore 30% of Scripture (which is prophecy) if you wish, even though Jesus said man shall live by EVERY Word which proceeds from the mouth of God.
BTW, it is the upper class that has been swept into this 'social gospel' thing (spurned by a guilty conscience) and loves to bring up race and social class distinctions while down playing prophecy. For themthe Kingdom of God is this world.

Middle class life? Lol, not even close. Fear based? nope. Scripture based? So far the one with the least holes in incorporating ALL of Scripture.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Do you know what prophecy is sis?

It is the fortelling of future things

It does not mean we NEED a temple (to be saved or to restore sacrifice) what it means, is that God looked forward in time, and he saw a new temple.

Why is that temple rebuilt? It does not say, nor does it have to

Do you know at this very moment Israel is in the plans to rebuild the temple.? They have everything they need, If the last thing comes to place. The temple can be rebuilt in probably less than a few years. Maybe even less time.

Pre-mill people see in prophesy it will be rebuilt because God said it would, (Not because we need it)

Amill believes it will nto be rebuilt. They take a symbolic interpretation. Which destroys the meaning and purpose of prophecy (to prove to the world GOD is the ONE TRUE GOD.
Jesus is told the Jews the temple would be destroyed and it was, and then new temple is body of Believers.

Not a symbolic interpretation.
Any new physical temple is the attempt to retrofit a prophesy already fulfilled.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
i dont believe that. jewish dominion? thats not a christian doctrine then.

is that true?

Just quoting the web site.

However, there is more than one rabbi on record stating they will eventually rule the world since this is the promise from God.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
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Any new physical temple is the attempt to retrofit a prophesy already fulfilled.
What if it's a Temple of Thanksgiving, Remembrance, and Worship.

Revelation 7:15 (KJV) Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Revelation 11:1 (KJV) And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

Revelation 11:19 (KJV) And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Revelation 15:8 (KJV) And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
What if it's a Temple of Thanksgiving, Remembrance, and Worship.

Revelation 7:15 (KJV) Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Revelation 11:1 (KJV) And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

Revelation 11:19 (KJV) And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Revelation 15:8 (KJV) And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.
Yes this is reference to the real temple that was destroyed in 70AD.

Rev 11:1 is internal proof that this was written prior to 70AD and is reference to a real temple.

A horrific time for the Jews in Jerusalem ...the one that Jesus predicted would not be let with one stone on top of another.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Jesus is told the Jews the temple would be destroyed and it was, and then new temple is body of Believers.

Not a symbolic interpretation.
Any new physical temple is the attempt to retrofit a prophesy already fulfilled.
Yes

But the old testament prophets said there would come a time when a roman leader would enter the most holy place. And place an abomination which causes desolation. And jesus said when they see this, RUN, For then their will be so great a tribulation. His return will be the only means of stoping it, and preventing an extinction event (no flesh would survive)

That has yet to happen.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Does reading Hal Lindsey count and Marvin Rosenthal and everyone in between??? :p
No

Prophesy is prophesy, The bible says if we see a prophet state a prophesy which that thing does not come true, he is a false prophet.

So why are all these OT prophecies not literally fulfilled? Making all the OT prophets false prophets :p
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
In the dispensational pre-mill, pre-trib rapture theory there needs to be a rebuilt temple in the new literal millennial reign of Christ correct?

According to dispensationalists, the millennium will be a period of history in which God reverts back to fulfilling His Old Testament promises made to ethnic Israel,
Before you start telling people what they believe maybe you should ask. And I would not go to “gotquestions.com” to try to figure out what others believe.

God has never stopped fulfilling his promises to Isreal. One of the things God promised them is the desecration of their land and city. (Lev 26) God is still fulfilling his promises to them. So the above statement is false