Amillennialists...Here's a chance to state your case.

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Mar 28, 2016
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Good grief. No it doesn't. It doesn't represent anything other than the generation Jesus lived in. It's plain and simple.
Good golly. It is not speaking of the witness of men as generations ending with each new family where some say 20 years or another time 40 yrs. . The word generation is not used like that. We are not of those who number .But rather those who walk by faith

The bible actually uses "two generations" that we are to concern our selves with. .The generation of Adam, the evil generation, and the generation of Christ the imputed righteousness generation, They work along side each other. The generation of Christ holding out the gospel to the generation of Adam the evil generation (no faith)

Its speaking of the generation that will end when death as to the letter of the law will be cast into the judgment fire of God's wrath .

Until then this generation are not to remove one jot or title from that law. This generation will not pass away until then.

Matthew 24:33-35 King James Version (KJV) So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
 

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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Good golly. It is not speaking of the witness of men as generations ending with each new family where some say 20 years or another time 40 yrs. . The word generation is not used like that. We are not of those who number .But rather those who walk by faith

The bible actually uses "two generations" that we are to concern our selves with. .The generation of Adam, the evil generation, and the generation of Christ the imputed righteousness generation, They work along side each other. The generation of Christ holding out the gospel to the generation of Adam the evil generation (no faith)

Its speaking of the generation that will end when death as to the letter of the law will be cast into the judgment fire of God's wrath .

Until then this generation are not to remove one jot or title from that law. This generation will not pass away until then.

Matthew 24:33-35 King James Version (KJV) So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Once again, your insistence upon allegorization has clouded your understanding of the plain text.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Good golly. It is not speaking of the witness of men as generations ending with each new family where some say 20 years or another time 40 yrs. . The word generation is not used like that. We are not of those who number .But rather those who walk by faith

The bible actually uses "two generations" that we are to concern our selves with. .The generation of Adam, the evil generation, and the generation of Christ the imputed righteousness generation, They work along side each other. The generation of Christ holding out the gospel to the generation of Adam the evil generation (no faith)

Its speaking of the generation that will end when death as to the letter of the law will be cast into the judgment fire of God's wrath .

Until then this generation are not to remove one jot or title from that law. This generation will not pass away until then.

Matthew 24:33-35 King James Version (KJV) So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
To take your view one must think Christ had no condemnation for those about to kill Him. One must take the position that no judgment would come to them. One must take the position that all the judgment that did come to them in 66-70 AD was just a random act of war, like any other war, without any divine providence involved.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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To take your view one must think Christ had no condemnation for those about to kill Him. One must take the position that no judgment would come to them. One must take the position that all the judgment that did come to them in 66-70 AD was just a random act of war, like any other war, without any divine providence involved.
There is no condemnation to those in Christ. The thief on the cross bore witness to that.

The demonstration is not accredited to the hands of sinful men . The demonstration was between the Son of Man seen and the father not seen. When demonstrating that work in the garden as part of that 3 day work of faith, as Jesus suffered unto death (living sacrifice) as the father poured our His wrath .(not the wrath of the crowd.) To make sure people could be secure in so much that it was the work of two .The father put the disciples to sleep so that they could not aid in the work of praying for strength . Three times it was then the disciples were awakened by the finger of God ending that part of the demonstration.

The 66-70 AD was just a random act of war, like any other war, without any witness of God's divine providence involved. He was working as in all the affairs of men but not revealing how, what or why. The cannon God's witness, the law and the prophets is closed.

I would say a person cannot build faith on assumptions of history..as if his kingdom did come by observation. That would be Catholic method of operation or called a law of the fathers. The last new revelation no adding or subtracting from the whole book of the law the bible.Sealed it with 7 seals
 

crossnote

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Among, within, the point is the kingdom is invisible. It is not a tangible, concrete place or thing. It's not like you are standing far off and seeing this big city with high walls in the distance. It isn't a place you can go to and enter like the cities of our day or any day. Having said that, so what then is the Kingdom of God???

The answer is quite simple. A good way to think of it is like a membership in a society although you don't get a certificate or plague. Instead, you get something much more valuable - eternal life. You get the indwelling of the Lord. People great and small, rich and poor, weak and strong, people of every nation, race or creed are invited in. The only requirement for membership is repentance and acceptance of Christ. The phrase, "Accept Jesus into your heart" is a really good way to describe it.
In their case the Kingdom was definitely visible with Jesus the King standing there doing miracles especially against the power of darkness, that is why 'among' is the better word. Again, it definitely was not 'in' the Pharisees who opposed Jesus.
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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Exactly the thousand years is not literal but signified according to the instructions for rightly dividing. Verse one chapter one Revelation The one standard for the whole book that the literalist most ignore.

The thousand with again is a unknow represents the last days which began when Christ said; "it is finished". The time of reformation had come.

We walk by faith not of those who number days or people. Jesus informs us they are not wise following the wisdom of this world

Christ will come as a thief in the night .Our responsibility is to be ready .Not to walk by sight. No sign as a wonder as a source of faith was given or needed to be given . Signs of the time are different .The Holy Spirit would not teach us how to walk by faith and then say number the days and the people. which opposes walking by faith (the unseen eternal)

For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise. But we will not boast of things without our measure, but according to the measure of the rule which God hath distributed to us, a measure to reach even unto you. 2 Corinthians
10:12-13

Again the same with people like the 144, 000 a number that represents the elect of all nations signified as born again Israel. All Israel is not born again Isaiah or the final new name God named his bride Christian.
We are in the Millennium??? Oh, I get it, I'm supposed to believe it by faith because some loony theologians have a vivid imagination. Sorry, that view jettisons hundreds of OT prophecies foretelling a literal future Kingdom. Here are just a few from the major Prophets...

Prophecies of the Major Prophets About the Millennium
Jeremiah pictures the Millennium as a time when Israel and Judah will be united in peace, and the city of Jerusalem will be called “The Throne of the Lord” (Jeremiah 3:17-18). Jesus, “the righteous Branch,” will “reign as king and act wisely and do justice and righteousness in the land” (Jeremiah 23:5). And because of His new role as king, the name of Jesus will be changed to Yahweh-Tsidkenu, meaning, “The Lord is our righteousness” (Jeremiah 23:6).

David, in his glorified body, will serve as the king of Israel (Jeremiah 30:9), and all the enemies of Israel will be destroyed (Jeremiah 30:11). The city of Jerusalem and the Temple will be rebuilt (Jeremiah 30:18), and the population will be multiplied (Jeremiah 30:19). The mourning of the Jewish people will be turned into joy (Jeremiah 31:13).

The Jewish people will repent of the rejection of their Messiah and will enter into a new covenant with God that will be written on their hearts (Jeremiah 31:31-34 and 32:37-40). The streets of Jerusalem will be filled with “the voice of joy and the voice of gladness…” (Jeremiah 33:11).



Ezekiel confirms that the Jewish people will enter into a new covenant with God that will be written on their hearts (Ezekiel 11:19-20 and 16:60-62). He also confirms that the Lord will guarantee their security and will “execute judgments upon all who scorn them round about them” (Ezekiel 28:26). The land of Egypt will be particularly punished for its treatment of Israel and will remain a desolation during the first 40 years of the Millennium (Ezekiel 29:9-16).

Ezekiel also confirms that David will be made king of Israel (Ezekiel 34:23-24 and 37:24). The Lord will pour out “showers of blessings” on Israel, including agricultural abundance (Ezekiel 34:26-29) and the rebuilding of their Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-27). The result is that the Lord’s glory will be set among the nations (Ezekiel 39:21).

From chapter 40 through chapter 46, Ezekiel focuses on describing the Millennial Temple. It is much larger than any of the previous Jewish temples, and the Holy of Holies in the Temple contains no ark. Jeremiah had already prophesied that the ark would not be rebuilt or remembered (Jeremiah 3:16).

One of Ezekiel’s end time prophecies that has already been fulfilled relates to the Eastern Gate. He says it will be shut up and will not be reopened until the Messiah returns (Ezekiel 44:1-3). The gate was closed in the 1500’s and remains closed to this day.

Ezekiel reveals that part of the redemption of nature will be the conversion of the Dead Sea into a sea of fresh water (Ezekiel 47:8-9). He concludes his book by telling how the redeemed and greatly expanded land of Israel will be divided among the 12 tribes (Ezekiel 48).

Daniel’s end time prophecies focus on the Tribulation and the Antichrist. His first mention of the Millennium occurs in chapter 2 where he interprets the dream of Nebuchadnezzar about the sequence of Gentile empires. He reveals that the last Gentile empire will be destroyed by the return of the Messiah and the establishment of His kingdom “which will never be destroyed” (Daniel 2:44-45).

In chapter 7, Daniel emphasizes that the Redeemed will reign with the Messiah: “Then the sovereignty, the dominion, and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One…” (Daniel 7:27). Daniel concludes his book by indicating there will be an interregnum of 75 days between the time of the Lord’s return and the establishment of His worldwide government (Daniel 12:11-12). This is most likely the period of time when the Messiah will judge all those left alive at the end of the Tribulation to determine whether or not they will enter the Millennium in the flesh. This time period will also likely be used to organize the Messiah’s government, part of which will be to make governing assignments to the Redeemed who will be in glorified bodies.


https://christinprophecy.org/articles/the-millennium-in-the-old-testament/
 

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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What, in your mind, wasn't fulfilled back then?
None of this has been fulfilled as yet (unless you choose to be delusional):

MATTHEW 24

THE GOSPEL CONTINUES TO BE PREACHED, THE END HAS NOT YET COME
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION AND THE ANTICHRIST ARE IN THE FUTURE
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

THE UNIQUE GREAT TRIBULATION IS STILL IN THE FUTURE
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST IS STILL IN THE FUTURE
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

CHRIST'S SECOND COMING WILL BE VISIBLE TO ALL ("THE LIGHTNING" FROM EAST TO WEST)
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

THE EAGLES (BIRDS OF PREY) WILL GATHER AT THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON FOLLOWING THE SECOND COMING
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

THERE WILL BE CATACLYSMIC COSMIC EVENTS BEFORE THE SECOND COMING AND JUST AFTER THE GREAT TRIBULATION
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

CHRIST WILL COME WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY (WITH HIS SAINTS AND ANGELS) AND ALL WILL MOURN
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

CHRIST WILL SEND HIS ANGELS TO GATHER THE BELIEVING JEWISH REMNANT
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

As anyone can see, Preterism is not only utter nonsense, but heresy.
 
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We are in the Millennium??? Oh, I get it, I'm supposed to believe it by faith because some loony theologians have a vivid imagination. Sorry, that view jettisons hundreds of OT prophecies foretelling a literal future Kingdom. Here are just a few from the major Prophets..
George, Ole Elroy sees it more like because some loony theologians literalized the "signified" understandings hid in parables . They destroyed the assigned "signified" hermeneutics .

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Signify when rightly dividing look at the temporal and find assigned spiritual understanding called walking by faith (the unseen) .
Like the key , chain or bottomless pit in Revelation 20 .What does it signify. Obliviously the unseen gospel that bind the lies with no release (bottomless) in sight .The same with the other metaphors in that parable.

If we do not use the prescription for rightly dividing parable as below. How could we ever find the meaning in the hidden manna spoken of in Revelation 2:17?

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

David, in his glorified body, will serve as the king of Israel (Jeremiah 30:9), and all the enemies of Israel will be destroyed (Jeremiah 30:11). The city of Jerusalem and the Temple will be rebuilt (Jeremiah 30:18), and the population will be multiplied (Jeremiah 30:19). The mourning of the Jewish people will be turned into joy (Jeremiah 31:13).
Its easy to see you are not mixing faith the unseen eternal. Focusing in on the things seen the temporal as if the kingdom of God did come by observation.

David, in his glorified body , it will be neither male nor female Jew or gentile. I think you forgot the 1st century reformation came. When David receive his new body like other members of the bride . . . the former things will not be remember or ever come to mind. He will have a new name. Jerimiah 30 as to the end of the matter is speaking about these last days ending with the last . The last day Job spoke of that he will stand on as part of the last day wake up call ."Rise" receive the promise of the new incorruptible bodies.

God does not number people or end of days .Rather he teaches us to walk by faith in respect to the unseen eternal.

Jerimiah 30 The fierce anger of the Lord shall not return, until he hath done it, and until he have performed the intents of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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My responses in blue:

None of this has been fulfilled as yet (unless you choose to be delusional):

All of it was fulfilled. I choose to be scriptural and I study history

MATTHEW 24

THE GOSPEL CONTINUES TO BE PREACHED, THE END HAS NOT YET COME
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

First one needs to understand that the "world" in this context was the Roman empire. It was the known world. This is how the term is used throughout the NT. Lk 2:1 And it came to pass in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered. Did Caesar make the Chinese, Indians, Southern Africans and Russians register? How about the native American Indians?

THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION AND THE ANTICHRIST ARE IN THE FUTURE
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Antichrist? What Antichrist? There is no Antichrist found in this passage. You won't find the term anywhere in Daniel or in the 4 Gospels. The term is only is only found 4 places, all in 1 John and 2 John. I'm going to blend the passages together then comment.

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour... Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son...and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world...For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Thus we learn that an "Antichrist" is anyone who denies the Father and Son. We also learn that there were many antiChrists and that another one was coming. The one which was coming was already in the world, back then!!! They were in the last hour!! There is no future antiChrist to us taught unless you think the antichrist is 2,000 years old and comes and goes. John was speaking of a contemporary antichrist, someone who as alive at the same time as himself.

THE UNIQUE GREAT TRIBULATION IS STILL IN THE FUTURE
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Nope, the great tribulation was the siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD. This was the worst trouble any nation ever endured. Josephus uses identical language to describe this period. 4. "Now this vast multitude is indeed collected out of remote places, but the entire nation was now shut up by fate as in prison, and the Roman army encompassed the city when it was crowded with inhabitants. Accordingly, the multitude of those that therein perished exceeded all the destructions that either men or God ever brought upon the world" - Josephus War 6-9-4)

THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST IS STILL IN THE FUTURE
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Quoting Josephus -

a great mixed multitude of the people, fled, in number about six thousand. But before Caesar had determined any thing about these people, or given the commanders any orders relating to them, the soldiers were in such a rage, that they set that cloister on fire; by which means it came to pass that some of these were destroyed by throwing themselves down headlong, and some were burnt in the cloisters themselves. Nor did any one of them escape with his life. A false prophet was the occasion of these people's destruction, who had made a public proclamation in the city that very day, that God commanded them to get upon the temple, and that there they should receive miraculous signs of their deliverance. Now there was then a great number of false prophets suborned by the tyrants to impose on the people, who denounced this to them, that they should wait for deliverance from God; and this was in order to keep them from deserting, and that they might be buoyed up above fear and care by such hopes. Now a man that is in adversity does easily comply with such promises; for when such a seducer makes him believe that he shall be delivered from those miseries which oppress him, then it is that the patient is full of hopes of such his deliverance.

3. Thus were the miserable people persuaded by these deceivers, and such as belied God himself; while they did not attend nor give credit to the signs that were so evident, and did so plainly foretell their future desolation, but, like men infatuated, without either eyes to see or minds to consider, did not regard the denunciations that God made to them.


CHRIST'S SECOND COMING WILL BE VISIBLE TO ALL ("THE LIGHTNING" FROM EAST TO WEST)
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

I'll take this issue separately because it takes more to explain.


THE EAGLES (BIRDS OF PREY) WILL GATHER AT THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON FOLLOWING THE SECOND COMING
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

There is no such thing as "The Battle of Armageddon." This is a false assumption. Megiddo was the place where the Roman troops gathered before their assault on Jerusalem. It was Jerusalem were we find all the bodies. Again, from Josephus:

"...they found in them entire families of dead men, and the upper rooms full of dead corpses, that is, of such as died by the famine; they then stood in a horror at this sight, and went out without touching any thing. But although they had this commiseration for such as were destroyed in that manner, yet had they not the same for those that were still alive, but they ran every one through whom they met with, and obstructed the very lanes with their dead bodies, and made the whole city run down with blood, to such a degree indeed that the fire of many of the houses was quenched with these men's blood."

Did you catch that? There was so much blood it put the fires out!!


THERE WILL BE CATACLYSMIC COSMIC EVENTS BEFORE THE SECOND COMING AND JUST AFTER THE GREAT TRIBULATION
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

I'll take this topic separately also.

CHRIST WILL COME WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY (WITH HIS SAINTS AND ANGELS) AND ALL WILL MOURN
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

CHRIST WILL SEND HIS ANGELS TO GATHER THE BELIEVING JEWISH REMNANT
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
 
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It doesn't. It will be a total surprise when it comes as no man knows the hour or day.
This is tantamount to claiming that Jesus is saying or meant "the kingdom of God cometh not with observation" except when it arrives.
 
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THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION AND THE ANTICHRIST ARE IN THE FUTURE
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
I think the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION is . . . "corrupted things of men in the holy unseen place of faith' shown by the wrath of God corruptible thing like men in the place of the invisible incorruptible .It is a ongoing warning .

Peter was used as one of the many antichrists that were there according to 1 John. Christ is the anointing Holy Spirit of God. . .He is not a man as us . Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of man, Jesus . It would be impossible to be forgiven in respect to the Son of God not seen.

Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.1 John 2:18

Peter forbid Jesus from doing the will of the father not seen usurping the will of the father in heaven. Blasphemy

We have his confidence spoken of in Philippians 1:6 . He does not awaken our love for God working in our hard hearts and not finish the work of masking it soft so we can rest in his Sabaath.

Job 33 declared .He is of one mind and always does whatsoever his soul desires .For he performs that which he appoints to us working with us to both will and complete it . For he makes our hearts baby soft

Peter learned his lesson of faith he asks Christ to increase it.

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him..1 John 2:18

It would appear the spirit of the antichrist can stand behind a Christian as antichrists (plural ). We must be careful how we hear and like the noble Bereans moved by faith searched the scriptures daily according to that spirit of faith, as it is written . Called trying the spirits to see if they come from above or earthly inspired by the father of lies. That would be my suggestion.
 
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I'll take this topic separately also.

CHRIST WILL COME WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY (WITH HIS SAINTS AND ANGELS) AND ALL WILL MOURN
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
I'll chime in here PLW, to say this is a future event would negate Jesus' statements to the Sanhedrin and the High Priest who Jesus emphatically claimed they would see him return in the clouds in their lifetime:

(Mat 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.)

(Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.)

Note the YE shall see.

CHRIST WILL SEND HIS ANGELS TO GATHER THE BELIEVING JEWISH REMNANT

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The above is all part and parcel of what Jesus was saying about his coming again and he tell us WHEN:

(Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled)
 
Mar 28, 2016
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My responses in blue:

None of this has been fulfilled as yet (unless you choose to be delusional):

All of it was fulfilled. I choose to be scriptural and I study history

MATTHEW 24

THE GOSPEL CONTINUES TO BE PREACHED, THE END HAS NOT YET COME
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

First one needs to understand that the "world" in this context was the Roman empire. It was the known world. This is how the term is used throughout the NT. Lk 2:1 And it came to pass in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered. Did Caesar make the Chinese, Indians, Southern Africans and Russians register? How about the native American Indians?

THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION AND THE ANTICHRIST ARE IN THE FUTURE
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Antichrist? What Antichrist? There is no Antichrist found in this passage. You won't find the term anywhere in Daniel or in the 4 Gospels. The term is only is only found 4 places, all in 1 John and 2 John. I'm going to blend the passages together then comment.

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour... Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son...and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world...For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Thus we learn that an "Antichrist" is anyone who denies the Father and Son. We also learn that there were many antiChrists and that another one was coming. The one which was coming was already in the world, back then!!! They were in the last hour!! There is no future antiChrist to us taught unless you think the antichrist is 2,000 years old and comes and goes. John was speaking of a contemporary antichrist, someone who as alive at the same time as himself.

THE UNIQUE GREAT TRIBULATION IS STILL IN THE FUTURE
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Nope, the great tribulation was the siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD. This was the worst trouble any nation ever endured. Josephus uses identical language to describe this period. 4. "Now this vast multitude is indeed collected out of remote places, but the entire nation was now shut up by fate as in prison, and the Roman army encompassed the city when it was crowded with inhabitants. Accordingly, the multitude of those that therein perished exceeded all the destructions that either men or God ever brought upon the world" - Josephus War 6-9-4)

THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST IS STILL IN THE FUTURE
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Quoting Josephus -

a great mixed multitude of the people, fled, in number about six thousand. But before Caesar had determined any thing about these people, or given the commanders any orders relating to them, the soldiers were in such a rage, that they set that cloister on fire; by which means it came to pass that some of these were destroyed by throwing themselves down headlong, and some were burnt in the cloisters themselves. Nor did any one of them escape with his life. A false prophet was the occasion of these people's destruction, who had made a public proclamation in the city that very day, that God commanded them to get upon the temple, and that there they should receive miraculous signs of their deliverance. Now there was then a great number of false prophets suborned by the tyrants to impose on the people, who denounced this to them, that they should wait for deliverance from God; and this was in order to keep them from deserting, and that they might be buoyed up above fear and care by such hopes. Now a man that is in adversity does easily comply with such promises; for when such a seducer makes him believe that he shall be delivered from those miseries which oppress him, then it is that the patient is full of hopes of such his deliverance.

3. Thus were the miserable people persuaded by these deceivers, and such as belied God himself; while they did not attend nor give credit to the signs that were so evident, and did so plainly foretell their future desolation, but, like men infatuated, without either eyes to see or minds to consider, did not regard the denunciations that God made to them.

CHRIST'S SECOND COMING WILL BE VISIBLE TO ALL ("THE LIGHTNING" FROM EAST TO WEST)
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

I'll take this issue separately because it takes more to explain.

THE EAGLES (BIRDS OF PREY) WILL GATHER AT THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON FOLLOWING THE SECOND COMING
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

There is no such thing as "The Battle of Armageddon." This is a false assumption. Megiddo was the place where the Roman troops gathered before their assault on Jerusalem. It was Jerusalem were we find all the bodies. Again, from Josephus:

"...they found in them entire families of dead men, and the upper rooms full of dead corpses, that is, of such as died by the famine; they then stood in a horror at this sight, and went out without touching any thing. But although they had this commiseration for such as were destroyed in that manner, yet had they not the same for those that were still alive, but they ran every one through whom they met with, and obstructed the very lanes with their dead bodies, and made the whole city run down with blood, to such a degree indeed that the fire of many of the houses was quenched with these men's blood."

Did you catch that? There was so much blood it put the fires out!!

THERE WILL BE CATACLYSMIC COSMIC EVENTS BEFORE THE SECOND COMING AND JUST AFTER THE GREAT TRIBULATION
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

I'll take this topic separately also.

CHRIST WILL COME WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY (WITH HIS SAINTS AND ANGELS) AND ALL WILL MOURN
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in thein clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

CHRIST WILL SEND HIS ANGELS TO GATHER THE BELIEVING JEWISH REMNANT
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

I would offer .The antichrist. . another kind of mediator is the spirit of lies. It is called a serpent or Satan to mention two it began its work as a murder from the beginning "The father of lies working in the mind of Cain the first recorded of the antichrists (many} .Cain did the will of the father of lies.

Abel the first recoded martyr .

So then its antichrist "singular" to represent the one spirit of lies. And antichrists "plural" to represent fleshly bodies needed to bring false prophecy through false apostles. It applies to the warning to be careful when sitting with strangers called messenger or angels .they could bring a blessing or a curse .Or both bring a blessing to each other , the mutual work of prophecy

Its why Jesus said to Peter. . get the behind me Satan and Not get p behind me Peter. . Satan the counterfeiter was behind Peter and not behind the authority of the father in heaven as was Jesus..
 

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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I think the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION is . . . "corrupted things of men in the holy unseen place of faith' shown by the wrath of God corruptible thing like men in the place of the invisible incorruptible .It is a ongoing warning .
That's because you insist on making things up instead of drawing your understanding from the plain text of Scripture. The A of D must be plainly visible/discernible at a specific time for Christians to see and flee Jerusalem.
 

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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I'll chime in here PLW, to say this is a future event would negate Jesus' statements to the Sanhedrin and the High Priest who Jesus emphatically claimed they would see him return in the clouds in their lifetime
The word "hereafter" cancels your claim. And "ye" applies to the nation of Israel, not those who condemned Christ on that day. Furthermore, there are many other Scriptures which make it clear that the Second Coming of Christ is yet future. But if you prefer delusions, enjoy them.
 
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The word "hereafter" cancels your claim. And "ye" applies to the nation of Israel, not those who condemned Christ on that day. Furthermore, there are many other Scriptures which make it clear that the Second Coming of Christ is yet future. But if you prefer delusions, enjoy them.
No delusion here, what is specious, is you trying to take Jesus' words "ye" to the Sanhedrin and High Priest and apply it to the nation that was not in the room.
 

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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No delusion here, what is specious, is you trying to take Jesus' words "ye" to the Sanhedrin and High Priest and apply it to the nation that was not in the room.
It was not just the Sanhedrin which was held accountable for the crucifixion of Christ. It was the nation of Israel.

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: (Acts 2:22,23)

Furthermore, the Second Coming of Christ takes place only AFTER the Great Tribulation, and only AFTER the great cataclysmic cosmic events with the sun, moon, and stars. So regardless of your delusions, the Second Coming is still in the future.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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That's because you insist on making things up instead of drawing your understanding from the plain text of Scripture. The A of D must be plainly visible/discernible at a specific time for Christians to see and flee Jerusalem.
The temple as the abomination of desolation was plainly visible. .When Jesus said it is finished the time of reformation had come, As a sign the veil was rent from the top to the bottom and he shook the ground.

The context of chapter 24 begins in chapter 23 with ; your house is left unto you desolate. Not God's house he does not live in temple made with corrupted human hands . The time of reformation came .A great tribulation like never before or ever again it continues doing it work . To those who would build another abomination of desolation . Which is corrupted flesh and blood in the unseen holy place of faith. You could call it blasphemy .

Chapter division can take away the context.

Mathew chapter 23 and 24 .Beginning in 23 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the lord

Continuing in chapter 24 in regard to the desolate house as a living parable Jesus departed out as a the house desolation , never to enter again he was moved to a mount to represent all the kingdom of the world. The disciple tried see not all these glorious things like were you asleep? But it had already been made desolate signaled by him walking out..

Remember in these last days he spoke though the Son of man using his life as a living parable to show the work of the father who dwelt in Jesus' earthen body . Many times he spoke hiding the gospel understanding by hiding his own self from those who literalize the signified tongue of God. Times he would seem to disappear. Eventually the apostle learned how to walk by faith. Christ is our hiding place our place as refuges .

And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things"? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?


John 12:36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.