Amillennialists...Here's a chance to state your case.

[UnitedWithChrist]

Charles Spurgeon on Dispensationalism:

“Distinctions have been drawn by certain exceedingly wise men (measured by their own estimate of themselves), between the people of God who lived before the coming of Christ, and those who lived afterwards. We have even heard it asserted that those who lived before the coming of Christ do not belong to the church of God!

We never know what we shall hear next, and perhaps it is a mercy that these absurdities are revealed at one time, in order that we may be able to endure their stupidity without dying of amazement. Why, every child of God in every place stands on the same footing; the Lord has not some children best beloved, some second-rate offspring, and others whom he hardly cares about.

These who saw Christ’s day before it came, had a great difference as to what they knew, and perhaps in the same measure a difference as to what they enjoyed while on earth meditating upon Christ; but they were all washed in the same blood, all redeemed with the same ransom price, and made members of the same body.

Israel in the covenant of grace is not natural Israel, but all believers in all ages. Before the first advent, all the types and shadows all pointed one way —they pointed to Christ, and to him all the saints looked with hope. Those who lived before Christ were not saved with a different salvation to that which shall come to us. They exercised faith as we must; that faith struggled as ours struggles, and that faith obtained its reward as ours shall”

Charles Spurgeon
Devotional Classics of C H Spurgeon, p122

 

[PlainWord]

Its not just heaven, its new EARTH as well

If you are referencing Rev 21, the new earth is in the spiritual realm as well. All things were restored. Notice in v. 8 that the wicked are facing the second death. The second death comes after the physical death, thus the whole chapter is describing the spiritual realm, the place we go upon our physical deaths.

 

[PlainWord]

To those who perhaps have not considered this. When God created the earth and Adam, they were created in the spiritual realm, not our physical realm. Consider that when it was created, God saw that it was good. Consider also that there was no death. Adam would never have died had he not sinned. There is death all the time in our physical realm. Consider also that God walked with Adam. God did not walk with mortals as we cannot gaze upon the fully glorified God. This can only happen in the spiritual realm.

 

[Kolistus]

If you are referencing Rev 21, the new earth is in the spiritual realm as well. All things were restored. Notice in v. 8 that the wicked are facing the second death. The second death comes after the physical death, thus the whole chapter is describing the spiritual realm, the place we go upon our physical deaths.

We just view the chapters completely differently. I can respect your view.

 

[PlainWord]

We just view the chapters completely differently. I can respect your view.

Thank you for that. Rev 21 and 22 describe heaven. Notice the gates are always open, allowing the nations to bring their glory into it. There is no sun. God is the light which illuminates heaven. Notice the Tree of Life (symbolism for Christ) is there, just as the Tree of Life was in the garden. Notice that only those written in the Lamb's Book are allowed in. That book isn't checked until one dies. If you are found in the Book, you are granted admission. If not, you are left out - separated from God - second death.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Acts 3:19-21 19 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out, 20 that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, 21 whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago.


I'm about to cause the premillennarians' heads to spin. They will run to their dens, grab their calculators, charts and graphs and diligently persevere until they form their rescue device to save their precious theology

This verse proves Peter was not a premillennial guy. He says that Jesus stays in heaven until the "restoration of all things".

The Millennium, as premillennialists consider it, is NOT the restoration of all things. Sin and rebellion still continues to rear its' ugly head toward the end of the Millennium.

But, Peter, instead, says that when Jesus returns, the complete restoration will occur.

Now, if this was one verse out of many that prove premillennialism, I would have a problem but it is not. If you read the NT carefully, you do not find a premillennial view. Their whole position relies on Revelation 20, which is obscure and can be explained in an amillennial context.

This is what I began to see about 5-7 years ago, when a friend of mine became amillennial through his association with a Reformed Baptist church. I thought he was whacky when he brought it up to me, but the Scriptures become so much more clear after you escape their faulty views.

And the fact that most of them deny the New Covenant is for believers today is totally absurd. I didn't even understand they taught that as a premillennialist. But, it is the natural conclusion of their theology.

 

[PlainWord]

I would offer. DEATH = SEPARATION FROM GOD.... the living suffering as the wage of death... on earth.( not under ground no oxygen)
The wrath (Roman1) that is being revealed from heaven (a dying corrupted creation) seen even today and will end on the last day .

The last day. When death as to the "letter of law" it will be cast as judgment fire judgement of God. Never to rise and condemn through corruption to total destruction another entire creation.

Not one rudiment or molecule will be part of the new heaven and earth . Not a rebuild, or reconditioned. As sons of God we do not know what we will be when we receive the goal of our new faith a incorruptible body. Ageless .

One thing certainty not what we are a corrupted creation.

God is a God of mercy. Not a God of eternal vengeance. Like for instance (suffer forever, that will teach you not to have enough brains to figure out the right choice).

Mankind, not converted, simply returns to the dust. Some murmur and seem to be saying suffer forever.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings hilipians 2:13 -114

In that way. Possibly forgetting the principle in James that God himself is subject to.

James 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Mercy does not rejoice with Judgement. No love there. . food for terrorist

Dead people without a spirit cannot suffer. There bodies simply return to the lifeless spiritless dust in was formed from. Their temporal spirit that was killed according to the letter of the law returns to its source .

The foundation of hell. . a living above ground work. Its foundation is revealed in Genesis 4. (Cain and Able)

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Garee,

I really wish you would open your eyes and mind to another meaning for "last day." Your view of their being a last day of planet Earth whereby the planet and everything on it is wiped out, is dead wrong. Instead, the "last day" as found several times in the Book of John needs to be compared with the other uses of "last day" in the Bible beginning with Gen 49:1:

"And Jacob called his sons and said, “Gather together, that I may tell you what shall befall you in the last days."

Jacob goes on to tell his sons what would become of their descendants. He was NOT discussing the end of the planet. Thus when you see the term "last day(s)" used in the NT, they are speaking of the last days of Israel, not the entire planet. Not just Israel was coming to and end but also the Law!! This is so important and I think it is lost on most. The Law ended with the temple destruction. The Law was already coming to and end for those saved by, and living under, Grace, as Paul taught:

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! (Rom 6:15)

In none of the John passages does Jesus say the planet is coming to an end. Israel, Jerusalem, the Temple and the Law were to come to an end. Those were the last days. Remember Dan 9, "to finish transgressions?" We find that this happened when the Law ceased.

Rom 4:15:

because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.

Thus, transgression ended when the Law ended. Paul goes on to teach a lot about the Law.

(For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. (Rom 5:13)

Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. (Rom 7:4)

Christ ended the Law. Christ fulfilled the Law (Mt 5:17) and ushered in our new age. Hades is closed, Heaven is open. There are no saints in Hades anymore. Christ fulfilled the Law and restored our connection to God. It is finished.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

The phrase "last days", depending on the context, means the time period between Jesus' first Advent and his second Advent.

Some use it to refer to the moments right at the end, during the last seven years, but this would be inappropriate. It includes the entire church age.

There may be some other contextual uses that would need to be considered, but that's the general idea.

And, the New Age has been inaugurated, but not consummated. The consummation occurs at Jesus' return.

 

[PlainWord]

The phrase "last days", depending on the context, means the time period between Jesus' first Advent and his second Advent.

Some use it to refer to the moments right at the end, during the last seven years, but this would be inappropriate. It includes the entire church age.

There may be some other contextual uses that would need to be considered, but that's the general idea.

And, the New Age has been inaugurated, but not consummated. The consummation occurs at Jesus' return.

Both pre and amillennialism are faulty. I subscribe to "inmillennialism" meaning we are in the millennium now. Christ returned in the first century, to destroy the Temple, the wicked Jews and to end the Law and usher in our age of Grace. Does anyone deny that we are under Grace and not the Law? Does anyone deny that Christ is present with His church right now?? If not, when did that happen? Think about it.

Throughout the NT Christ, and others, predicted he would come back to punish those who killed Him and killed His followers. Jerusalem indeed was destroyed, thus Christ was responsible for it.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Both pre and amillennialism are faulty. I subscribe to "inmillennialism" meaning we are in the millennium now. Christ returned in the first century, to destroy the Temple, the wicked Jews and to end the Law and usher in our age of Grace. Does anyone deny that we are under Grace and not the Law? Does anyone deny that Christ is present with His church right now?? If not, when did that happen? Think about it.

Throughout the NT Christ, and others, predicted he would come back to punish those who killed Him and killed His followers. Jerusalem indeed was destroyed, thus Christ was responsible for it.

Amillennial theology teaches that the "Millennium" has been inaugurated already, so some elements of your definition would be applicable to amillenialism. The name is unfortunate, but the theological term means that the "Church age" is the Millennium, in essence.

However calling the Jews "wicked" and insinuating that they are somehow more wicked than other people is wrong. All men are dead in sin. Believers are one man in Christ.

 

[PlainWord]

Amillennial theology teaches that the "Millennium" has been inaugurated already, so some elements of your definition would be applicable to amillenialism. The name is unfortunate, but the theological term means that the "Church age" is the Millennium, in essence.

However calling the Jews "wicked" and insinuating that they are somehow more wicked than other people is wrong. All men are dead in sin. Believers are one man in Christ.

Correct me if I'm wrong, amillenialism teaches that the millennial reign of Christ began at the ascension and will continue until Christ returns, right? While our views merge in that we agree we are in the millennium now, we disagree as to when it began and when it will end. My view is the Millennial reign of Christ began when He returned in the first century. He came in wrath against disbelieving Israel. I call them, "the wicked Jews." My remarks are aimed only at that generation of Christ's day. Christ called them "wicked, perverse, adulterous, etc." So, I think I am safe calling them wicked.

In Acts 3, Peter tells us that those (Jews) who did not, or would not, hear the words of the Prophet (Jesus) would be destroyed from the people. He was speaking about 70 AD. Events (which God was behind) separated the wheat from the tares. Using Jewish festivals, all Jews, believing or not, would return to Jerusalem, which they did. Vespasian allowed them in, but wouldn't let them leave, causing food shortages. Believing Christian Jews fled to Pella. The disbelieving Jews went through the great tribulation where 93% of them died. It truly was remarkable how prophetic those days were.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Correct me if I'm wrong, amillenialism teaches that the millennial reign of Christ began at the ascension and will continue until Christ returns, right? While our views merge in that we agree we are in the millennium now, we disagree as to when it began and when it will end. My view is the Millennial reign of Christ began when He returned in the first century. He came in wrath against disbelieving Israel. I call them, "the wicked Jews." My remarks are aimed only at that generation of Christ's day. Christ called them "wicked, perverse, adulterous, etc." So, I think I am safe calling them wicked.

In Acts 3, Peter tells us that those (Jews) who did not, or would not, hear the words of the Prophet (Jesus) would be destroyed from the people. He was speaking about 70 AD. Events (which God was behind) separated the wheat from the tares. Using Jewish festivals, all Jews, believing or not, would return to Jerusalem, which they did. Vespasian allowed them in, but wouldn't let them leave, causing food shortages. Believing Christian Jews fled to Pella. The disbelieving Jews went through the great tribulation where 93% of them died. It truly was remarkable how prophetic those days were.

Your view seems to be a full preterist view. I am a partial preterist. I believe that Christ’s reign started at his exaltation after the resurrection. I do believe a lot of the Olivet prophecy was fulfilled in AD 70. The destruction of Jerusalem eliminated any possibility of a reestablished Temple Worship as there are no geneology records to establish a pure priesthood. That is part of why Jews and dispensationalists are fooling themselves if they think Temple worship can ever be restored. And even if it were, it would be idolatry as Jesus is where we go for forgiveness of sins.

By the way this is another problem with dispensationalism. They claim that animal sacrifices will be offered in the Millennium. Ezekiel says that these are sin offerings. Dispensationalists know that Hebrews says Jesus’ sacrifice is the final one. So, dispensationalists will claim the offerings are mere memorials. However, their dispensationalist hermeneutic doesn’t allow for this sort of claim therefore they are ignoring their own hermeneutic as they are clearly indicated as sin offerings in Ezekiel.

 

[PlainWord]

Your view seems to be a full preterist view. I am a partial preterist. I believe that Christ’s reign started at his exaltation after the resurrection. I do believe a lot of the Olivet prophecy was fulfilled in AD 70. The destruction of Jerusalem eliminated any possibility of a reestablished Temple Worship as there are no geneology records to establish a pure priesthood. That is part of why Jews and dispensationalists are fooling themselves if they think Temple worship can ever be restored. And even if it were, it would be idolatry as Jesus is where we go for forgiveness of sins.

By the way this is another problem with dispensationalism. They claim that animal sacrifices will be offered in the Millennium. Ezekiel says that these are sin offerings. Dispensationalists know that Hebrews says Jesus’ sacrifice is the final one. So, dispensationalists will claim the offerings are mere memorials. However, their dispensationalist hermeneutic doesn’t allow for this sort of claim therefore they are ignoring their own hermeneutic as they are clearly indicated as sin offerings in Ezekiel.

I'm pretty much a full preterist although I do seem room for Rev 20:7-10 to be future. All of the Olivet took place back then. I think that is pretty clear and recorded in history. Nowhere does Jesus provide a massive multi-thousand year gap, nor does He hint at one. Everything was to happen to that generation.

Totally agree with your points regarding dispensationalism. It is a dangerous and incorrect view for the reasons you cite. They miss the part in Ezek 43 where Ezekiel is told, "IF they repent, show them the design" (paraphrasing).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm pretty much a full preterist although I do seem room for Rev 20:7-10 to be future. All of the Olivet took place back then. I think that is pretty clear and recorded in history. Nowhere does Jesus provide a massive multi-thousand year gap, nor does He hint at one. Everything was to happen to that generation.

Totally agree with your points regarding dispensationalism. It is a dangerous and incorrect view for the reasons you cite. They miss the part in Ezek 43 where Ezekiel is told, "IF they repent, show them the design" (paraphrasing).

So when did Christ return? I must have missed that event? also curious to know how in the past that all life on earth was threatened which brought him to return for the sake of the elect?

whether it is 1000 years, or just along time, there are still things that scripture states will happen in that time..non of them have happened or are happening, if they have not.. then how can we be in that period of time?

As for gaps. there is a 40 year gap at the least in daniel 9

jesus, when he got up to read from the scroll Of Isaiah, he only read the first 2 verses,

luke 4

“The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me,
Because the Lord has anointed Me
To preach good tidings to the poor;
He has sent Me to [a]heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,


when he got done he proclaimed this

21 And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”

He did not read the rest.. why?

And the day of vengeance of our God;
To comfort all who mourn,
3 To [b]console those who mourn in Zion,
To give them beauty for ashes,
The oil of joy for mourning,
The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;
That they may be called trees of righteousness,
The planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified.”
4 And they shall rebuild the old ruins,

They shall raise up the former desolations,
And they shall repair the ruined cities,
The desolations of many generations.
5 Strangers shall stand and feed your flocks,
And the sons of the foreigner
Shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.
6 But you shall be named the priests of the Lord,
They shall call you the servants of our God.
You shall eat the riches of the Gentiles,
And in their glory you shall boast.
7 Instead of your shame you shall have double honor,
And instead of confusion they shall rejoice in their portion.
Therefore in their land they shall possess double;
Everlasting joy shall be theirs.
8 “For I, the Lord, love justice;
I hate robbery [c]for burnt offering;
I will direct their work in truth,
And will make with them an everlasting covenant.
9 Their descendants shall be known among the Gentiles,
And their offspring among the people.
All who see them shall acknowledge them,
That they are the posterity whom the Lord has blessed.”
10 I will greatly rejoice in the Lord,
My soul shall be joyful in my God;
For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation,
He has covered me with the robe of righteousness,
As a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments,
And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.
11 For as the earth brings forth its bud,
As the garden causes the things that are sown in it to spring forth,
So the Lord God will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.

if we look,non of these events happened even up till today

what ruins did they rebuild in jesus day? The ruins happened in 70ad. And they are diggind up those ruins as we speak

what You see here is a prophetic gap.2 events which appear as one event, looking at a straight line in the future,

ie these events will take place in this order with no mention of when each event will actually take place.

in this passage, the first events took place, Jesus did all he that was said of him in verse and and 2a.

the next event is the day of wrath. Also called the tribulation also called the time of Jacobs trouble

that event and what followed for the rest of the chapter are yet to be fulfilled.

 

[PlainWord]

So when did Christ return? I must have missed that event? also curious to know how in the past that all life on earth was threatened which brought him to return for the sake of the elect?

whether it is 1000 years, or just along time, there are still things that scripture states will happen in that time..non of them have happened or are happening, if they have not.. then how can we be in that period of time?

As for gaps. there is a 40 year gap at the least in daniel 9

jesus, when he got up to read from the scroll Of Isaiah, he only read the first 2 verses,

luke 4

“The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me,
Because the Lord has anointed Me
To preach good tidings to the poor;
He has sent Me to [a]heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,


when he got done he proclaimed this

21 And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”

He did not read the rest.. why?

And the day of vengeance of our God;
To comfort all who mourn,
3 To [b]console those who mourn in Zion,
To give them beauty for ashes,
The oil of joy for mourning,
The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;
That they may be called trees of righteousness,
The planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified.”
4 And they shall rebuild the old ruins,

They shall raise up the former desolations,
And they shall repair the ruined cities,
The desolations of many generations.
5 Strangers shall stand and feed your flocks,
And the sons of the foreigner
Shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.
6 But you shall be named the priests of the Lord,
They shall call you the servants of our God.
You shall eat the riches of the Gentiles,
And in their glory you shall boast.
7 Instead of your shame you shall have double honor,
And instead of confusion they shall rejoice in their portion.
Therefore in their land they shall possess double;
Everlasting joy shall be theirs.
8 “For I, the Lord, love justice;
I hate robbery [c]for burnt offering;
I will direct their work in truth,
And will make with them an everlasting covenant.
9 Their descendants shall be known among the Gentiles,
And their offspring among the people.
All who see them shall acknowledge them,
That they are the posterity whom the Lord has blessed.”
10 I will greatly rejoice in the Lord,
My soul shall be joyful in my God;
For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation,
He has covered me with the robe of righteousness,
As a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments,
And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.
11 For as the earth brings forth its bud,
As the garden causes the things that are sown in it to spring forth,
So the Lord God will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.

if we look,non of these events happened even up till today

what ruins did they rebuild in jesus day? The ruins happened in 70ad. And they are diggind up those ruins as we speak

what You see here is a prophetic gap.2 events which appear as one event, looking at a straight line in the future,

ie these events will take place in this order with no mention of when each event will actually take place.

in this passage, the first events took place, Jesus did all he that was said of him in verse and and 2a.

the next event is the day of wrath. Also called the tribulation also called the time of Jacobs trouble

that event and what followed for the rest of the chapter are yet to be fulfilled.

EG,

Thanks for your many questions and points. This may take some time, but let's start:

So when did Christ return? I must have missed that event? also curious to know how in the past that all life on earth was threatened which brought him to return for the sake of the elect?

Christ's presence returned in the first century just as He said He would. We all missed it because we weren't born yet. I believed He returned in the 66-68 AD time frame. Joel 2:28-29 predicted Pentecost, right? In Acts 2 Peter states that this passage was happening right then to them. Thus we should expect when we pick back up in Joel 2 to see the return of Christ, and we do:

Joel 2:30-32:30 “And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: Blood and fire and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord. 32 And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance..."

The above passage exactly matches the description Christ gives in Mat 24:

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

I believe when Jesus says, "immediately after the tribulation of those days" He is referring back to v. 9, not v 21.

9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake."

According to Eusebius, on the day when James, the half-brother of Christ was thrown from the temple and killed by the high priests, Vespasian arrived and surrounded the city. In the OT God's presence would come surrounded by dark storm clouds to conceal the brightness of His Glory (See 2 Sam 22:12, 1 Kin 8:12, and Psm 18:11). We have multiple examples of God's presence blocking the lights of the sky, (sun, moon and stars). Notice in the above two passages, they are in agreement, before the Lord comes, we see the lights of the heavens turning pitch dark. The Lord is behind this darkness. The lights of the universe didn't go away, they were simply masked by the dark "glory cloud" of the Lord's presence. The sky would appear to be rolled up as a scroll from the Glory Cloud of the Lord Almighty. Josephus describes a supernatural storm this way in War 4-4-5:

"for there broke out a prodigious storm in the night, with the utmost violence, and very strong winds, with the largest showers of rain, with continued lightnings, terrible thunderings, and amazing concussions and bellowings of the earth, that was in an earthquake. These things were a manifest indication that some destruction was coming upon men, when the system of the world was put into this disorder; and any one would guess that these wonders foreshowed some grand calamities that were coming."

It wasn't all life that was threatened. All the passages locate these events in Israel and Jerusalem. The NIV places a footnote after “the peoples of the earth.” In this footnote appears a substitute translation: “the tribes of the land.” The tribes of the land are the tribes of Israel. The Greek word translated “earth” in Matthew 24:30 is ge which can be a global term, though it is often used to specify an isolated city, kingdom or nation—in this case it is best applied to the nation of Israel alone.

 

[PlainWord]

whether it is 1000 years, or just along time, there are still things that scripture states will happen in that time..non of them have happened or are happening, if they have not.. then how can we be in that period of time?

What things are supposed to happen during the 1,000 years or just a long time frame, that you don't see happening? Please be specific so I can address this.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG,

Thanks for your many questions and points. This may take some time, but let's start:

So when did Christ return? I must have missed that event? also curious to know how in the past that all life on earth was threatened which brought him to return for the sake of the elect?

Christ's presence returned in the first century just as He said He would. We all missed it because we weren't born yet. I believed He returned in the 66-68 AD time frame. Joel 2:28-29 predicted Pentecost, right? In Acts 2 Peter states that this passage was happening right then to them. Thus we should expect when we pick back up in Joel 2 to see the return of Christ, and we do:

Joel 2:30-32:30 “And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: Blood and fire and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord. 32 And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance..."

The above passage exactly matches the description Christ gives in Mat 24:

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

I believe when Jesus says, "immediately after the tribulation of those days" He is referring back to v. 9, not v 21.

9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake."

According to Eusebius, on the day when James, the half-brother of Christ was thrown from the temple and killed by the high priests, Vespasian arrived and surrounded the city. In the OT God's presence would come surrounded by dark storm clouds to conceal the brightness of His Glory (See 2 Sam 22:12, 1 Kin 8:12, and Psm 18:11). We have multiple examples of God's presence blocking the lights of the sky, (sun, moon and stars). Notice in the above two passages, they are in agreement, before the Lord comes, we see the lights of the heavens turning pitch dark. The Lord is behind this darkness. The lights of the universe didn't go away, they were simply masked by the dark "glory cloud" of the Lord's presence. The sky would appear to be rolled up as a scroll from the Glory Cloud of the Lord Almighty. Josephus describes a supernatural storm this way in War 4-4-5:

"for there broke out a prodigious storm in the night, with the utmost violence, and very strong winds, with the largest showers of rain, with continued lightnings, terrible thunderings, and amazing concussions and bellowings of the earth, that was in an earthquake. These things were a manifest indication that some destruction was coming upon men, when the system of the world was put into this disorder; and any one would guess that these wonders foreshowed some grand calamities that were coming."

It wasn't all life that was threatened. All the passages locate these events in Israel and Jerusalem. The NIV places a footnote after “the peoples of the earth.” In this footnote appears a substitute translation: “the tribes of the land.” The tribes of the land are the tribes of Israel. The Greek word translated “earth” in Matthew 24:30 is ge which can be a global term, though it is often used to specify an isolated city, kingdom or nation—in this case it is best applied to the nation of Israel alone.

This makes no sense

Life was never threatened in the first century to the point Jesus would have to make The time short and return

the great tribulation is called the greatest which ever occurred There has been far greater tribulation on earth since then

when Jesus returns prophesy states he will do certain things. Non of which are happening even today

Prophesy also states the gentiles Would
Come to Jerusalem to worship jesus

Matt 24. Jesus also spoke of the beginnings of sorrows which the world is just getting a glimpse of today

Joel 3 has not happened yet

There is just so Many unanswered questions

 

[PlainWord]

As for gaps. there is a 40 year gap at the least in daniel 9

What 40 year gap??? Daniel 9 does not contain a gap of any time.

“And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall [j] be cut off, but not for Himself;

[j] Suffer the death penalty

Messiah was cut off (suffer the death penalty) AFTER the 62 weeks, not during them, not before them, AFTER them. This means Messiah was cut off during the 70th week. No gap!!

 

[PlainWord]

This makes no sense

Life was never threatened in the first century to the point Jesus would have to make The time short and return

the great tribulation is called the greatest which ever occurred There has been far greater tribulation on earth since then

when Jesus returns prophesy states he will do certain things. Non of which are happening even today

Prophesy also states the gentiles Would
Come to Jerusalem to worship jesus

Matt 24. Jesus also spoke of the beginnings of sorrows which the world is just getting a glimpse of today

Joel 3 has not happened yet

There is just so Many unanswered questions

EG,

Please CAREFULLY read the text and don't jump to assumptions that aren't there. You have to take all 3 accounts together. You cannot isolate one of them.

Lk 21: 20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.

We see clearly that it is Jerusalem in focus. You can even tell this from Matthew's account:

16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."

It is clear what area Jesus is discussing. He's not discussing Florida where there are no mountains. He was not discussing the planet. He stays on Judea and Jerusalem.

21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

He's talking about those inside Jerusalem who were dying by the hundreds of thousands. There were still believers in the city, 98,000 of them, who Titus spared. It was their worst tribulation ever. He wasn't discussing the planet.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

whether it is 1000 years, or just along time, there are still things that scripture states will happen in that time..non of them have happened or are happening, if they have not.. then how can we be in that period of time?

What things are supposed to happen during the 1,000 years or just a long time frame, that you don't see happening? Please be specific so I can address this.

here are a few. there are so many more

Zech 14

All the land shall be turned into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem. [g]Jerusalem shall be raised up and inhabited in her place from Benjamin’s Gate to the place of the First Gate and the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king’s winepresses.
11 The people shall dwell in it; And no longer shall there be utter destruction, But Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 19 This shall be the [i]punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

psalms 2 “Yet I have [e]set My King ]On My holy hill of Zion.” 7 “I will declare the decree:
Ask of Me, and I will give You The nations for Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
9 You shall [h]break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’
Now therefore, be wise, O kings; Be instructed, you judges of the earth. 11 Serve the Lord with fear, And rejoice with trembling. 12 [i]Kiss the Son, lest [j]He be angry, And you perish in the way, When His wrath is kindled but a little.

Is 11:
But with righteousness He shall judge the poor,
And decide with equity for the meek of the earth;
He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth,
And with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked.
5 Righteousness shall be the belt of His loins,
And faithfulness the belt of His waist.

6 “The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb,
The leopard shall lie down with the young goat,
The calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
And a little child shall lead them.
7 The cow and the bear shall graze;
Their young ones shall lie down together;
And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 The nursing child shall play by the cobra’s hole,
And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper’s den.
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,
For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord
As the waters cover the sea.

I have looked, I can not find these things, and this is just a few. there is so much more