An Analysis on the 144,000 in Revelation
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The point in the article I posted (linked) was that ALL 73 mentions of the word "Israel" in the NT ALL mean "Israel" (whether the believing part of Israel or the un-/dis-believing part of Israel, depending on context).
If we view it as you suggest (that "Jesus is Israel") and we set about replacing the word/name "Jesus" in each place in the NT where the word "Israel" is used, we'd come up with a mish-mash of mush:
--[for example] "...that blindness / a hardening in part is happened to JESUS until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" - Romans 11:25.
Um... no.
Get real.
If you want NOTHING to make sense, do that.
If we view it as you suggest (that "Jesus is Israel") and we set about replacing the word/name "Jesus" in each place in the NT where the word "Israel" is used, we'd come up with a mish-mash of mush:
--[for example] "...that blindness / a hardening in part is happened to JESUS until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" - Romans 11:25.
Um... no.Get real.
If you want NOTHING to make sense, do that.
Good Afternoon!
Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
God Bless!
Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
God Bless!
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Why do you seek to antagonize with false accusations - my posts have nothing to do with boasting against the Truth nor the Jewish people of the flesh who are in darkness and death to this present day - EXCEPT for the Remnant whom God will Call.
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”
The Apostle Paul
Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar—
for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia,
and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—
but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect.
For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,
nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham;
but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.”
That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God;
but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.
For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”
The Apostle Paul
Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar—
for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia,
and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—
but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect.
For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,
nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham;
but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.”
That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God;
but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.
For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”
FreeGrace2 said:
Did I ever suggest that the dead and living arrive in the air/clouds at different times? No.
So you don't think the living believers will "meet the dead in Christ" in the air, huh? Well, read 1 Thess 4 quite a few times.
Well, I guess we're done. I still have no idea what your point is. All you do is claim "the text does not state this".
What, specifically, am I "imagining"?
This sentence is an example of WHY I have no idea what you point is. Here, I have no idea what you are even saying.
Yes, you are speaking English, but your English is making no sense.
Are you able to be specific? Now would be a good time.
Did I ever suggest that the dead and living arrive in the air/clouds at different times? No.
So you don't think the living believers will "meet the dead in Christ" in the air, huh? Well, read 1 Thess 4 quite a few times.
Well, I guess we're done. I still have no idea what your point is. All you do is claim "the text does not state this".
What, specifically, am I "imagining"?
This sentence is an example of WHY I have no idea what you point is. Here, I have no idea what you are even saying.
Yes, you are speaking English, but your English is making no sense.
Are you able to be specific? Now would be a good time.
Hello again,
No offense, experience dictates that if it wasn't so, this ^^^ long post wouldn't be necessary= pride.
"Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. "
Consider ,take the time out a re-read your posts....
Be Blessed......
No offense, experience dictates that if it wasn't so, this ^^^ long post wouldn't be necessary= pride.
"Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. "
Consider ,take the time out a re-read your posts....
Be Blessed......
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@FreeGrace2 ,
[I responded...]
No.
The text does NOT state this.
You are imagining this. The text itself is not informing you/us this (as you've put it).
[for the readers: a refresher at Post #520 - https://christianchat.com/threads/an-analysis-on-the-144-000-in-revelation.204640/post-4807649 ]
[I responded...]
No.
The text does NOT state this.
You are imagining this. The text itself is not informing you/us this (as you've put it).
[for the readers: a refresher at Post #520 - https://christianchat.com/threads/an-analysis-on-the-144-000-in-revelation.204640/post-4807649 ]
Here are Scripture verses for you to memorize and practice: Mark 10:19 and Proverbs 10:18
You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ”
Whoever hides hatred has lying lips, And whoever spreads slander is a fool.
You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ”
Whoever hides hatred has lying lips, And whoever spreads slander is a fool.
No You take time out and read my posts again and prove the error and boasting.......otherwise you are falsely accusing, which you went out of your way to do.
Do you think so high of yourself that you can judge me without evidence of such you accuse me of?
Prove the boasting against the Jewish people that you claim I have committed.
Do you think so high of yourself that you can judge me without evidence of such you accuse me of?
Prove the boasting against the Jewish people that you claim I have committed.
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Many folks express contemptuous things of the Jews precisely as a remedy of those believers who hold Israel to be precious of God. It's quiet normal. The proud church has been doing it for centuries. There is a risk to holding Israel precious in the sight of God because not all who are Israel of the flesh are Israel. Even so - many believers can scarce restrain their spiritual contempt of the Jews. If it were given free reign their would be war.
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At least three times a week, every week, the local Chabad Rabbi comes over to our house to put on Tefillin with my sons.
I greet Asher with a warm hug and often tell him that we love him.
I also share with him that we believe in the Elohim Avraham, Elohim Yitzchak and Elohim Yakov = Elohim Father Elohim Son Elohim Ruach HaKodesh.
OH, and did I mention that my wife is Jewish................PEACE
Yeah, my wife is a JEW twice over = of the flesh and of the Eternal Spirit of Yeshua HaMoshiach
I greet Asher with a warm hug and often tell him that we love him.
I also share with him that we believe in the Elohim Avraham, Elohim Yitzchak and Elohim Yakov = Elohim Father Elohim Son Elohim Ruach HaKodesh.
OH, and did I mention that my wife is Jewish................PEACE
Yeah, my wife is a JEW twice over = of the flesh and of the Eternal Spirit of Yeshua HaMoshiach
Rhomphaeam said:
Ne vous sentez pas obligé de vous précipiter, camarade. Madame Guillotine a déjà parlé. La tête est déjà dans le panier.
Hey guys, no speaking in tongues unless there is an interpreter present. 1 Cor 14.
Ne vous sentez pas obligé de vous précipiter, camarade. Madame Guillotine a déjà parlé. La tête est déjà dans le panier.
Hey guys, no speaking in tongues unless there is an interpreter present. 1 Cor 14.
It' s french.
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FreeGrace2 said:
Rhomphaeam said:
Ne vous sentez pas obligé de vous précipiter, camarade. Madame Guillotine a déjà parlé. La tête est déjà dans le panier.
Hey guys, no speaking in tongues unless there is an interpreter present. 1 Cor 14.
It was humor.
Rhomphaeam said:
Ne vous sentez pas obligé de vous précipiter, camarade. Madame Guillotine a déjà parlé. La tête est déjà dans le panier.
Hey guys, no speaking in tongues unless there is an interpreter present. 1 Cor 14.
It was humor.
The Bible actually teaches that the "first resurrection" (that for the saved) is in three phases (just like a Hebrew harvest): (1) Christ is the First Fruits, (2) the Resurrection/Rapture is the main harvest, and (3)the resurrection of the Tribulation saints would be "the gleanings". See 1 Cor 15
"When He comes" FOR the saints at the Rapture. So the Resurrection/Rapture is one event.
"When He comes" FOR the saints at the Rapture. So the Resurrection/Rapture is one event.
FreeGrace2 said:
Rhomphaeam said:
Ne vous sentez pas obligé de vous précipiter, camarade. Madame Guillotine a déjà parlé. La tête est déjà dans le panier.
Hey guys, no speaking in tongues unless there is an interpreter present. 1 Cor 14.
It was humor.
Rhomphaeam said:
Ne vous sentez pas obligé de vous précipiter, camarade. Madame Guillotine a déjà parlé. La tête est déjà dans le panier.
Hey guys, no speaking in tongues unless there is an interpreter present. 1 Cor 14.
It was humor.
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