Apostle Paul On Tongues In 1 Corinthians

[BenFTW]

Ben, thankyou, I understand what you're saying, but my question is NOT, 'How is tongues a gift, or how does the gift edify', my question is more like,' How does one person TELLING another person, quote, 'I speak in tongues' help that other person?

Or let me try it this way, (forgive the slight sarcasm),

Person A: What do you know about tongues?

Person B: Just what it says in the bible.

A: Do you speak in tongues?

B: No.

A: I speak in tongues.

B: Yeah, And? So?

A: Whaddya mean, So?!

B: I mean so what? How does that help me?

A: ?????? I just thought I'd tell you I speak in tongues.

B: Yippee! Let's start a parade.
.

It just seems like that wouldn't help anyone, really.
But I'd really like to know what it's all about.

Maybe if Person A ACTUALLY SPOKE in tongues to person B, and gave her some hidden wisdom from God, or a prophetic utterance, like 'Don't take that flight, the plane will crash', or even 'God wants me to tell you He loves you', and even if it comes out in an unknown tongue, but Person B hears and understands it, THAT, I could see, would be helpful.

But there seems to be alot of people who SAY they speak tongues, but why?

Another believer (saved person) might just get envious, thinking 'gee, that person has some special secret way to communicate with God, and I'm still struggling along just trying to pray for more than 30 seconds before my mind is wandering to the ceiling needing plastering. Maybe God is mad at me for something, or is holding out because He knows I'll just mess it up.'

And an unbeliever (unsaved person) might think, 'Wow, that's weird. Why are you telling me that? Is that supposed to get me to believe in Jesus? Because frankly, I'm not sure you telling me you speak in tongues is going to make me want to believe in Jesus, any more than you telling me you speak North Polian is going to make me want to believe in SantaClaus. Or travel to Antarctica'. (uh, South, I know, Lol)

Do you get what I mean? i.e. Instead of folks who speak in tongues TELLING folks they do, how about those folks actually DOING IT, to the benefit of other people, saved or unsaved alike?

I'm honestly not being snarky, I'm trying to learn, but I obviously have my concerns because of all the controversy surrounding tongues.

I know of no other gift from God that causes so much debate and division.
Except maybe healing.

Healings plural?

And prosperity.

And then there's water baptism.

Or communion.

Oh, and the gift of salvation itself, lol.

Yikes. You know what? Nevermind.
(God bless us everyone)

I understand what you are saying, and I emphasize again, as do you, operating in the gift for the edification of another. If I told someone I operate in the gift of tongues, it is one for the purpose of letting them know the gift has, in fact, not ceased as some sign gift (cessationism) and two, maybe I could minister to them through the gift with an interpreter present. I don't go around boasting that I have the gift, and when the topic comes up I do like to come to its defense because I know it is a gift of the Lord that is for today and edifies not just myself, but others. For me, it is highly coveted because it has allowed me great fellowship with the Lord. Also its a tool that is great for exhorting and encouraging others as the Lord speaks through it and ministers to them.

I think one of the reasons people emphasize that they speak in tongues is just for the fact that so many people deny its reality for today. So they are like, "Uhm no, its still for today!." People are trying to invalidate their experience by saying such a gift has ceased when the Holy Spirit is still distributing the gift today for the purposes He has chosen. Edification of self and others. Building up one's "most holy faith" (Jude 20), and so on.

The Lord has given the gift and it is multifaceted. To mention that you speak in tongues means one might consider getting an interpreter and having at it. Fellowship, just like if someone told you they had the gift of healings you might just stick our your left bruised hand, or something. You'd want them to operate in their gift for the edification of others, in the same way a tongue speaker should operate in his/her gift for the edification of others.

 

[emjcares]

BenFTW, THANKS for your detailed explanation, it means alot that you took the time, and you cleared up alot for me, I really appreciate it.

My only experience with tongues, as far as I know, is mostly what I've seen on tv, and being a cynic by nature, combined with what I've seen, has made me very skeptical.

I mean Kenneth Copeland and some other guy 'arguing and joking in tongues'? Come on, REALLY? It's such a shame, those kinds of displays, and it's no wonder others mock christianity when those that claim to know Jesus make such a mockery of it themselves.

But having so many decent, apparently sound believers, give testimony of their experiences, I can only say, 'Praise our Lord Jesus', and I know His ways are not our ways, and He's got all kinds of things going on I'm not so knowledgeable about, but I trust Him that if He wants me to experience something, I will,
meanwhile, His Word says we've been given all things that pertain to life and Godliness, so what a wonderful, loving and giving savior He is to do that! Besides, He already knows how much I struggle with plain ol' American English, so He must know that, for me, another language would probably just get me all shundamagloppinfribbles. Thanks again, Ben.

 

[fredoheaven]

Hi Fred,

You had said that the pre-KJV versions had one spelling of the word "prophesy". I checked your claim and found this not to be so. Wycliffe did translate the bible from the Vulgate, yes, but I'm not sure how this has any bearing on the spelling of the word "prophesy".

How does "but more that ye prophecien", the translation from the Latin, differ from "and most chefly forto prophesye", the translation from the Greek? Fred, the meanings are identical. They are also no different from the KJV "but rather that ye may prophesy" or the ESV "especially that you may prophesy".

I don't doubt that you're sincere, at all, but it seems to me that you may be trying to stretch Scripture to fit a preconceived view.

Could you perhaps refer me to books or other sources which have brought you to these conclusions? That may help clarify things.

Blessings!

Hi Sir and good day from the Philippines!

Well enough that’s may be true about “prophecien” that’s came from the Latin and earlier English of Tyndale “prophesye” which has the same meaning. However, if I am not mistaken, my prior posts is about “prophecy and prophesy” which has different meaning until 1676. As posted earlier, the earliest known record for the word “prophesy” was in the dictionary of Thomas Thomas which still understood as pre KJV, and the earliest known record for the word “prophecy” was used in 1475. Then until 18 Ce the noun and verb were fully differentiated.

Below are the following sources, I have used for your perusal:

1. Primary Source – KJV English Bible
2. Online KJB sources (https://www.blueletterbible.org/ ; OFFICIAL KING JAMES BIBLE ONLINE: AUTHORIZED KING JAMES VERSION (KJV)
3. Third hand Sources, considered a non-bias sources
a. Online Etymology Dictionary
b. http://leme.library.utoronto.ca/

Thank you and God bless!

 

[fredoheaven]

We can just agree to disagree but I greatly encourage you to inquire of the Lord as He has something wonderful for you to talk with your Father and Lord with your spirit. Bless you too brother!

Thank you brother for the encouragement to pray and I know what you mean. But this is to guess only, I can speak tongues more than ye all! speaking of known language and dialects... English, Filipino or Tagalog, Ilokano, Pangasinan...

God bless

 

[kohelet]

How do you find the bible poisoning the well?

We read out of the bible what God has written. We do not read into the bible what we want it to say. The Holy Spirit as I have shown you despite your protests that it is unrelated to the subject never operates outside of Gods word. Gods word is our authority in all matters Spiritual.

The mysticism and hyper-spirituality of Pentecostals and charismatics is a glaring problem. Tongues if you are going to have them are going to be human languages. Nothing in 1 Cor 14 could lead to any other conclusion. The confusion over tongues in the Pentecostal and charismatic movements as to whether they are languages or ecstatic utterances is clear evidence of the problem. If God is in it then there will not be confusion but order.

1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

1Co 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

How shall I describe your romantic little tales that depart from reality?

Do tongues in the modern church conform to biblical purposes? Are they for a witness to the unsaved Jews?

1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass.

Hi Roger,

You write:

We read out of the bible what God has written.

Well, we should. A little later you say:

Tongues if you are going to have them are going to be human languages. Nothing in 1 Cor 14 could lead to any other conclusion.

I'm a bit slow on the uptake (very happy to admit it - it's the truth) but the way I read 1 Corinthians 14, it says the reverse. Human languages are for humans to understand but "He who speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God, for no man understandeth him" (v.2). No one understands him. That doesn't sound like a world language to me. How do you conclude that tongues "are going to be human languages"? You may well be right; I'm happy to be corrected.

As for the sign for unbelievers, in v.22 Paul is referring to tongues without interpretation and, if people don't include interpretation, the Corinthians will be thinking and acting like children. In this context Paul quotes a word of judgement from Isaiah 28. In that context, God is warning the rebellious people of the Northern Kingdom that the next words they would hear from him are words they don't understand from foreigners, the Assyrians. Now Paul takes this as a general principle - he calls tongues minus interpretation in church a sign of judgement on unbelievers. Paul instructs the Corinthians not to allow this to happen.

This does not mean that anything else Pauls says about tongues doesn't hold though. Used privately, tongues edifies the speaker. Used corporately with interpretation, the gift is as valuable as prophecy. In private, Paul speaks more in tongues than all in the Corinthian church - and thanks God that this is so - but in the church things should be done differently.

I'd like to hear your view on this because this is what I see Paul saying in 1 Corinthans 14.

 

[kohelet]

Hi Sir and good day from the Philippines!

Well enough that’s may be true about “prophecien” that’s came from the Latin and earlier English of Tyndale “prophesye” which has the same meaning. However, if I am not mistaken, my prior posts is about “prophecy and prophesy” which has different meaning until 1676. As posted earlier, the earliest known record for the word “prophesy” was in the dictionary of Thomas Thomas which still understood as pre KJV, and the earliest known record for the word “prophecy” was used in 1475. Then until 18 Ce the noun and verb were fully differentiated.

Below are the following sources, I have used for your perusal:

1. Primary Source – KJV English Bible
2. Online KJB sources (https://www.blueletterbible.org/ ; OFFICIAL KING JAMES BIBLE ONLINE: AUTHORIZED KING JAMES VERSION (KJV)
3. Third hand Sources, considered a non-bias sources
a. Online Etymology Dictionary
b. http://leme.library.utoronto.ca/

Thank you and God bless!

Hi Fred,

No, prophecien is not from Latin. The infinitive of the Latin verb is "propheto". No 'c' or 's'.

Whether the spelling of English words have changed over time or not - and I still don't see the point you're making, actually - surely it's the meaning of the Greek that we need to be looking at.

Thanks for the list of lexicons and the KJV. I use some of them too so I'm really none the wiser as to how you arrive at your conclusions.

God bless!

Now I really have to reply to garee - tomorrow maybe.

 

[DP]

Actually we can.

I've written extensively about this:

When the SPIRIT OF GOD fell on the disciples in Acts 2. They immediately started praising and praying TO Him.

People around them came from all over because of the SOUND. And "every man heard" their own languages.

Why EVERY MAN? Because they were given the gift to interpret tongues. Because of this gift they were able to "hear" what the disciples were praising God for.

The wrong idea that Scripture does not say is that the disciples were preaching to the men in their own language. They were already praising God before the men showed up. And they were extolling God. And the men heard them in their own languages. You'll notice Scripture also clearly says "EVERY MAN" this is because this was a miracle. If you don't think so, go get 100 people and have them all SPEAK in a DIFFERENT language. And then have 3000 PEOPLE all stand around talking. And then see how many of them can actually make out what people are saying.

17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues

Acts 2:6 And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language.

If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. - Why do you need an interpreter if Acts 2 how it's traditionally believed is true? I'll tell you why because Acts 2 the miracle was in the interpretation as well.

I have to strongly disagree.

You're trying to establish that the Apostles were speaking some gibberish speak when The Holy Spirit fell upon them, which is adding... to the Scriptures, because no such idea is written in Acts 2. Also, saying people came from all over because of the "SOUND" is an addition to Scripture also. Noised abroad (KJV) simply means the word got out about the event, like gossip.

Acts 2:4-6
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
KJV

Those two bold red phrases agree with each other.

When they began speaking, they spoke "with other tongues". That doesn't mean a gibberish speech, nor a prayer language, nor a language of angels, not anything... like that.

It means simply... KNOWN languages of the world! And the proof of that is shown in the 6th verse of what the peoples present heard, i.e., their own languages of birth.

 

[Cee]

You can disagree all you want.

You keep saying it's known languages. And I've shown you many times it CAN'T BE known languages.

It's absolutely impossible for it to be known languages.

1. Disciples WERE already praising God before people got out. You can add "gossip" all you want. But the point is that they were already speaking BEFORE people showed up, even with YOUR addition.

2. Paul said NO ONE understands him, not even HIMSELF. That's why you need an INTERPRETER. Would you need an interpreter if it was a KNOWN language? Would Paul contrast "speaking in air" with "people able to AMEN you" if it was a KNOWN language? No.

3. Would Scripture say that God is speaking to His people in STRANGE languages if it was a KNOWN language? No.

Call it the cloven tongue, call it other tongues, call it glossia, but Scripture is clear you need an interpreter for it because it's NOT known.

And if you have a problem with the translations of HEARD his own language, and came because of the SOUND, you can blame countless Bible interpretations.

So the only one who's ADDING to Scripture is YOU:

New International Version
When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken.

New Living Translation
When they heard the loud noise, everyone came running, and they were bewildered to hear their own languages being spoken by the believers.

English Standard Version
And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language.

Berean Study Bible
And when this sound rang out, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking his own language.

Berean Literal Bible
Now of this sound having come about, the multitude came together and was confounded, because each one was hearing them speaking the own language.

New American Standard Bible
And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language.

King James Bible
Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
When this sound occurred, a crowd came together and was confused because each one heard them speaking in his own language.

International Standard Version
When that sound came, a crowd quickly gathered, startled because each one heard the disciples speaking in his own language.

NET Bible
When this sound occurred, a crowd gathered and was in confusion, because each one heard them speaking in his own language.

New Heart English Bible
When this sound was heard, the crowd came together, and were bewildered, because everyone heard them speaking in his own language.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And when that noise occurred, the entire populace gathered and was agitated, because each one of them heard that they were speaking in their dialects.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
They gathered when they heard the wind. Each person was startled to recognize his own dialect when the disciples spoke.

New American Standard 1977
And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were bewildered, because they were each one hearing them speak in his own language.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Now at this sound, the multitude came together and were confounded because each one heard them speak in his own tongue.

King James 2000 Bible
Now when this was sounded abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because every man heard them speak in his own language.

American King James Version
Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

American Standard Version
And when this sound was heard, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speaking in his own language.

I have to strongly disagree.

You're trying to establish that the Apostles were speaking some gibberish speak when The Holy Spirit fell upon them, which is adding... to the Scriptures, because no such idea is written in Acts 2. Also, saying people came from all over because of the "SOUND" is an addition to Scripture also. Noised abroad (KJV) simply means the word got out about the event, like gossip.

Acts 2:4-6
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
KJV

Those two bold red phrases agree with each other.

When they began speaking, they spoke "with other tongues". That doesn't mean a gibberish speech, nor a prayer language, nor a language of angels, not anything... like that.

It means simply... KNOWN languages of the world! And the proof of that is shown in the 6th verse of what the peoples present heard, i.e., their own languages of birth.

 

[Cee]

Acts 2:7... Notice they don't say who are SPEAKING TO US. Why? Because they ARE NOT SPEAKING TO PEOPLE.

That's PROPHESY.

Here's a few translations for you to chew on:

New International Version
Utterly amazed, they asked: "Aren't all these who are speaking Galileans?

New Living Translation
They were completely amazed. "How can this be?" they exclaimed. "These people are all from Galilee,

English Standard Version
And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans?

Berean Study Bible
In wonder and amazement, they asked, "Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans?

Berean Literal Bible
And they were amazed and were marveling, saying, "Behold, are not all these who are speaking Galileans?

New American Standard Bible
They were amazed and astonished, saying, "Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans?

King James Bible
And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

Holman Christian Standard Bible
And they were astounded and amazed, saying, "Look, aren't all these who are speaking Galileans?

International Standard Version
Stunned and amazed, they asked, "All of these people who are speaking are Galileans, aren't they?

NET Bible
Completely baffled, they said, "Aren't all these who are speaking Galileans?

New Heart English Bible
They were all amazed and marveled, saying, "Look, are not all these who speak Galileans?

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And they were all marveling and were amazed as they were saying, each to the other, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans?”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Stunned and amazed, the people in the crowd said, "All of these men who are speaking are Galileans.

New American Standard 1977
And they were amazed and marveled, saying, “Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans?

Jubilee Bible 2000
And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these who speak Galilaeans?

King James 2000 Bible
And they were all amazed and marveled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these who speak Galileans?

 

[Cee]

Oh and guess what happened the other time it's recorded Holy Spirit fell on the Gentiles???

They HEARD them speaking in tongues and PRAISING God.

Because TONGUES is speaking TO God. That's WHY you need an interpreter when you're around other people.

TO say tongues is known languages contradicts everything Paul wrote in 1 Co 14 about tongues.

And everything we see about tongues in Acts 2 and 10. Two PIVOTAL places where the Spirit is poured out. First on Jews and then on Gentiles.

Acts 10:46...

New International Version
For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said,

New Living Translation
For they heard them speaking in other tongues and praising God. Then Peter asked,

English Standard Version
For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared,

Berean Study Bible
For they heard them speaking in tongues and exalting God. Then Peter said,

Berean Literal Bible
For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and magnifying God. Then Peter answered,

 

[Cee]

Mark 16:17
And these signs will accompany those who believe: In My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;

You're a NEW CREATION. You have a new language. Jesus calls it NEW TONGUES. Notice doesn't say old tongues, known tongues, but NEW tongues. And yes we are still called to drive out demons. Just like Jesus did, glad you asked.

Acts 2:4
And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

Notice it says OTHER tongues. Why do you think it stresses OTHER tongues? Because it's other-worldly. It's called a STRANGE language. Or what some of you call "gibberish". It sure sounds like it when you don't know the language.

Acts 19:6
And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.

Notice here it says, they spoke in tongues AND prophesied. That means there are TWO different things. So you better recheck your theology here. Because what's different between the two if they are BOTH known languages? I'll help you out. They aren't both known languages. That's why Scripture calls them TONGUES.

And tongues is referred as speaking TO God. Not people. If you use Scripture to define your usage of tongues everything about this "known languages" theory contradicts it.

C.

 

[BenFTW]

Oh and guess what happened the other time it's recorded Holy Spirit fell on the Gentiles???

They HEARD them speaking in tongues and PRAISING God.

Because TONGUES is speaking TO God. That's WHY you need an interpreter when you're around other people.

TO say tongues is known languages contradicts everything Paul wrote in 1 Co 14 about tongues.

And everything we see about tongues in Acts 2 and 10. Two PIVOTAL places where the Spirit is poured out. First on Jews and then on Gentiles.

Acts 10:46...

New International Version
For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said,

New Living Translation
For they heard them speaking in other tongues and praising God. Then Peter asked,

English Standard Version
For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared,

Berean Study Bible
For they heard them speaking in tongues and exalting God. Then Peter said,

Berean Literal Bible
For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and magnifying God. Then Peter answered,

The gift of tongues is also God speaking through the tongue speaker to people. I mean its not really far fetched considering its the Holy Spirit giving your spirit the utterance. However just using reason and logic isn't enough we need a verse at least pointing to this idea. Here are two...

Isaiah 28:11 King James Version (KJV)

11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.


1 Corinthians 14:21 King James Version (KJV)

21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

Notice the Lord is speaking, in the verses. Just another aspect of tongues and its use in edifying the body of Christ.

 

[Cee]

Yeah good point. Notice every Scripture you posted says, "strange" and "other".

Same thing people complain about today.

It's important to note though, that Paul tells us when we are with people we are not to speak in tongues at them, but prophesy. And he tells us our spirit will submit to the one doing the speaking. Also note these are all referencing OT Scriptures.

Like I wrote in a few posts up, I believe my spirit is continually praying. Giving "utterance" is different. Because it is letting the flood gates open.

The gift of tongues is also God speaking through the tongue speaker to people. I mean its not really far fetched considering its the Holy Spirit giving your spirit the utterance. However just using reason and logic isn't enough we need a verse at least pointing to this idea. Here are two...

Isaiah 28:11 King James Version (KJV)

11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.


1 Corinthians 14:21 King James Version (KJV)

21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

Notice the Lord is speaking, in the verses. Just another aspect of tongues and its use in edifying the body of Christ.

 

[BenFTW]

There was no interpreter present at Pentecost, the people heard the tongues in their own languages. Either they spoke in the language of those present or supernaturally the people heard their language in the tongues being spoken, but either way these tongues didn't require an interpreter to be present (unless the Lord granted them interpretation individually).

Consider in describing the gift of tongues the emphasis on the need for an interpreter. If the apostle Paul says he'd rather speak five intelligible words than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue in the church, then he realizes that tongues need an interpretation for others to be edified. These tongues couldn't be a known language cause he says that no one understands them and that people can't "Amen" your praising in the spirit (because they don't understand what you are saying), though your praise is all good and well. However for others it does them no good, its not edifying for them in mind.

The gift of tongues can be a known language, I can attest to it in my own experience. There are many testimonies of such. However, if the word of God tells us that in tongues "no one understands them" and they utter "mysteries in the spirit' then there exists within the gift of tongues tongues that are unknown or ancient (even lost). That we need an interpreter itself points to the fact that the language isn't known, because "no one understands them."

No one is no one, that means you could be in a room with every language known to man and still need the gift of interpretation in order to edify others. Otherwise someone in the crowd would know what you are saying if it is only a known language thereby invalidating certain verses, contradicting them.

Remember, the gift of tongues is multifaceted. It is varied in its use. It can be used for prayer (and intercession), worship, and ministering (individually and corporately). It can even be used to fellowship with the Lord. There are many aspects to the gifts of the Spirit, and not everyone operates in the gifts the same way. Instead of tearing down others operating in the gifts the Lord has given them maybe you could encourage them to use their gifts for the edification of others. That might be more helpful than trying to invalidate their experience with a doctrine of Cessationism.

 

[Cee]

Very good points Ben! And I agree it CAN be a known language, what I meant is it CAN'T only be a known language. I have experienced it being a known language as well. And have heard many stories about it, plus I'm the one who posted the video of the Polish girl who speaks in English tongues lol.

But this idea that TONGUES in Scripture is only a known language is so completely against every Scripture that talks about it. I get fired up! Lol.

There was no interpreter present at Pentecost, the people heard the tongues in their own languages. Either they spoke in the language of those present or supernaturally the people heard their language in the tongues being spoken, but either way these tongues didn't require an interpreter to be present (unless the Lord granted them interpretation individually).

Consider in describing the gift of tongues the emphasis on the need for an interpreter. If the apostle Paul says he'd rather speak five intelligible words than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue in the church, then he realizes that tongues need an interpretation for others to be edified. These tongues couldn't be a known language cause he says that no one understands them and that people can't "Amen" your praising in the spirit (because they don't understand what you are saying), though your praise is all good and well. However for others it does them no good, its not edifying for them in mind.

The gift of tongues can be a known language, I can attest to it in my own experience. There are many testimonies of such. However, if the word of God tells us that in tongues "no one understands them" and they utter "mysteries in the spirit' then there exists within the gift of tongues tongues that are unknown or ancient (even lost). That we need an interpreter itself points to the fact that the language isn't known, because "no one understands them."

No one is no one, that means you could be in a room with every language known to man and still need the gift of interpretation in order to edify others. Otherwise someone in the crowd would know what you are saying if it is only a known language thereby invalidating certain verses, contradicting them.

Remember, the gift of tongues is multifaceted. It is varied in its use. It can be used for prayer (and intercession), worship, and ministering (individually and corporately). It can even be used to fellowship with the Lord. There are many aspects to the gifts of the Spirit, and not everyone operates in the gifts the same way. Instead of tearing down others operating in the gifts the Lord has given them maybe you could encourage them to use their gifts for the edification of others. That might be more helpful than trying to invalidate their experience with a doctrine of Cessationism.

 

[BenFTW]

Yeah good point. Notice every Scripture you posted says, "strange" and "other".

Same thing people complain about today.

It's important to note though, that Paul tells us when we are with people we are not to speak in tongues at them, but prophesy. And he tells us our spirit will submit to the one doing the speaking. Also note these are all referencing OT Scriptures.

Like I wrote in a few posts up, I believe my spirit is continually praying. Giving "utterance" is different. Because it is letting the flood gates open.

The Lord has ministered to people exactly in this way, where I speak in tongues and the interpreter speaks to the person what the Lord is saying. I would have to disagree on this point (that I put in bold in your post). The apostle Paul emphasized prophesying over tongues unless it is interpreted. He said that prophesying was greater than tongues, unless someone interpret. The reason for this is clear, the Lord speaks through tongues.

This isn't to dismiss the apostle Paul's clear desire that people seek after the gift of prophecy in order to edify others.

 

[BenFTW]

Very good points Ben! And I agree it CAN be a known language, what I meant is it CAN'T only be a known language. I have experienced it being a known language as well. And have heard many stories about it, plus I'm the one who posted the video of the Polish girl who speaks in English tongues lol.

But this idea that TONGUES in Scripture is only a known language is so completely against every Scripture that talks about it. I get fired up! Lol.

Haha, same! VVhen people start talking about Cessationism and gifts ceasing it just brings out like a righteous indignation. Here God has equipped His church to edify one another and people are tossing out the tools He has given us.

 

[Cee]

One interesting idea to add is that interpretation of tongues MAY be prophesy.

The Lord has ministered to people exactly in this way, where I speak in tongues and the interpreter speaks to the person what the Lord is saying. I would have to disagree on this point (that I put in bold in your post). The apostle Paul emphasized prophesying over tongues unless it is interpreted. He said that prophesying was greater than tongues, unless someone interpret. The reason for this is clear, the Lord speaks through tongues.

This isn't to dismiss the apostle Paul's clear desire that people seek after the gift of prophecy in order to edify others.

 

[emjcares]

Haha, same! VVhen people start talking about Cessationism and gifts ceasing it just brings out like a righteous indignation. Here God has equipped His church to edify one another and people are tossing out the tools He has given us.

So you know, I'm not being a naysayer, but honestly, I have yet to hear or be edified by anyone speaking in an unknown tongue, foreign or 'angelic', and have never seen or heard an interpretor of 'tongues'. I would love to check it out and find out what it is all about, plus be edified.

Btw, someone said NO ONE understood, so how did the interpretor know what was being said?

 

[BenFTW]

One interesting idea to add is that interpretation of tongues MAY be prophesy.

It can be. It can be prophetic, a word of knowledge, or even a word of wisdom just by the nature of the Lord speaking through the gift. God can speak of something prophetically, share intimate details of another's life, or give wisdom for current circumstances to people through tongues and interpretation. I wouldn't say the gift of tongues is those particular gifts but that the Lord can through tongues and interpretation share those three things.

It isn't always appropriate to use tongues, especially without an interpreter present and so thats why we also have those other three revelatory gifts individually. You don't need an interpreter to operate in those other gifts and so they are not limited by who is present.