Apostle Paul On Tongues In 1 Corinthians
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Hi and thank you for your input sir Stephen! I have to agree and never in my thoughts that the Roman Catholics did gave us the scriptures. The real Bible believers have them, read them and memorize them. The true and pure words of God can not be handed to the heretics, agnostics and cults. That's right, His words is forever settled in heaven!
We aren't been changed completely by the canon of the scripture, yet we are born again because of the scriptures and grow in the knowledge of Christ through the scriptures. The face to face is seeing ourselves in the mirror of the scriptures!
2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, evenas by the Spirit of the Lord.
James 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
God bless
We aren't been changed completely by the canon of the scripture, yet we are born again because of the scriptures and grow in the knowledge of Christ through the scriptures. The face to face is seeing ourselves in the mirror of the scriptures!
2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, evenas by the Spirit of the Lord.
James 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
God bless
Its a very interesting discussion.
There are valid points from both camps so to speak.
The Babel incident versus pentecost
Much to dig into.
Michael Heiser surely will have a few things to add.
Deep knowledge of the Word always is the right balance in the balance.
The sum is:
Tongues are not very important.
Its kind of blunt stated.
But its the truth.
Tongues doesnt matter.
So dont forbid the tongues.
Give them a hug instead and praise Jesus with them.
They are brethren.
The opposite of this is when the gift of tongues is presented
and promoted as som FIRE and like some kind of higher royalty in the kingdom.
And those not participating in it are like outcasts in scholl by the brats.
It breaks my heart.
Love each other always.
Paul have already said it.
Tongues doesnt matter for the body of christ.
Isnt it better to sing a song together.
And remember , everything in order.
Do not scare away the little ones with your own edifying.
They just might leap away from you and the Lorf might wonder why
when he gets back.
Love all your energy
all the words
its great to be able to share it like this.
There are valid points from both camps so to speak.
The Babel incident versus pentecost
Much to dig into.
Michael Heiser surely will have a few things to add.
Deep knowledge of the Word always is the right balance in the balance.
The sum is:
Tongues are not very important.
Its kind of blunt stated.
But its the truth.
Tongues doesnt matter.
So dont forbid the tongues.
Give them a hug instead and praise Jesus with them.
They are brethren.
The opposite of this is when the gift of tongues is presented
and promoted as som FIRE and like some kind of higher royalty in the kingdom.
And those not participating in it are like outcasts in scholl by the brats.
It breaks my heart.
Love each other always.
Paul have already said it.
Tongues doesnt matter for the body of christ.
Isnt it better to sing a song together.
And remember , everything in order.
Do not scare away the little ones with your own edifying.
They just might leap away from you and the Lorf might wonder why
when he gets back.
Love all your energy
all the words
its great to be able to share it like this.
Hi Sheepman.
Great idea in here of singing a song together, that's great! but we know it that there's a time for everything under the heaven. Sometimes there is a season of sharpening iron.
God bless!
1 Cor. 14: 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
Eccl. 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
Prov. 27: 17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
Great idea in here of singing a song together, that's great! but we know it that there's a time for everything under the heaven. Sometimes there is a season of sharpening iron.
God bless!
1 Cor. 14: 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
Eccl. 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
Prov. 27: 17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
Hi Fred,
You had said that the pre-KJV versions had one spelling of the word "prophesy". I checked your claim and found this not to be so. Wycliffe did translate the bible from the Vulgate, yes, but I'm not sure how this has any bearing on the spelling of the word "prophesy".
How does "but more that ye prophecien", the translation from the Latin, differ from "and most chefly forto prophesye", the translation from the Greek? Fred, the meanings are identical. They are also no different from the KJV "but rather that ye may prophesy" or the ESV "especially that you may prophesy".
I don't doubt that you're sincere, at all, but it seems to me that you may be trying to stretch Scripture to fit a preconceived view.
Could you perhaps refer me to books or other sources which have brought you to these conclusions? That may help clarify things.
Blessings!
You had said that the pre-KJV versions had one spelling of the word "prophesy". I checked your claim and found this not to be so. Wycliffe did translate the bible from the Vulgate, yes, but I'm not sure how this has any bearing on the spelling of the word "prophesy".
How does "but more that ye prophecien", the translation from the Latin, differ from "and most chefly forto prophesye", the translation from the Greek? Fred, the meanings are identical. They are also no different from the KJV "but rather that ye may prophesy" or the ESV "especially that you may prophesy".
I don't doubt that you're sincere, at all, but it seems to me that you may be trying to stretch Scripture to fit a preconceived view.
Could you perhaps refer me to books or other sources which have brought you to these conclusions? That may help clarify things.
Blessings!
I agree with SOLA SCRIPTURA - to those that believe - tongues are for today and they use scriptures to show that it is for us now. We can with our natural minds dismiss the scriptures that point to any truth that we don't believe.
As I say this is just like an atheist coming to me and saying that Jesus isn't real. I pray in tongues every day and know that Jesus is real. To deny that tongues are for us to day - I would have to deny that Jesus is not real. I'm not willing to do either as I would be denying the truth if I did.
We can just agree to disagree but I greatly encourage you to inquire of the Lord as He has something wonderful for you to talk with your Father and Lord with your spirit. Bless you too brother!
As I say this is just like an atheist coming to me and saying that Jesus isn't real. I pray in tongues every day and know that Jesus is real. To deny that tongues are for us to day - I would have to deny that Jesus is not real. I'm not willing to do either as I would be denying the truth if I did.
We can just agree to disagree but I greatly encourage you to inquire of the Lord as He has something wonderful for you to talk with your Father and Lord with your spirit. Bless you too brother!
Yet those who claim to speak the tongue of Pentecost don't really study all of God's Word, otherwise they would know about the following purpose for the cloven tongue of Pentecost...
Mark 13:9-13
9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
13 And ye shall be hated of all men for My name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
KJV
Matt 10:17-22
17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
KJV
Daniel and his brethren who refused to bow in false worship to the golden image of the king of Babylon is the pattern for some of us being delivered up to give a Testimony during the future tribulation. The 2nd beast of Rev.13:11 forward is to set up a beast image for false worship in the end of days also.
Dan 3:12-13
12 There are certain Jews whom thou hast set over the affairs of the province of Babylon, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego; these men, O king, have not regarded thee: they serve not thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.
13 Then Nebuchadnezzar in his rage and fury commanded to bring Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego. Then they brought these men before the king.
KJV
This Joel 2 Scripture is what Apostle Peter quoted at Pentecost in Acts 2 about the cloven tongue, showing what it is actually for during the future tribulation...
Joel 2:28-32
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
KJV
But some will instead say, "Well I'm not going to be here for the great tribulation. I'm going to be raptured to Heaven and live with Jesus!" Those who say such things put their trust in man, and not in God, for He has already warned us about the events of the coming tribulation and to know what to expect for the end of this world. Apparently some listen to our Lord Jesus on those things, but the majority do not.
Mark 13:9-13
9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
13 And ye shall be hated of all men for My name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
KJV
Matt 10:17-22
17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
KJV
Daniel and his brethren who refused to bow in false worship to the golden image of the king of Babylon is the pattern for some of us being delivered up to give a Testimony during the future tribulation. The 2nd beast of Rev.13:11 forward is to set up a beast image for false worship in the end of days also.
Dan 3:12-13
12 There are certain Jews whom thou hast set over the affairs of the province of Babylon, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego; these men, O king, have not regarded thee: they serve not thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.
13 Then Nebuchadnezzar in his rage and fury commanded to bring Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego. Then they brought these men before the king.
KJV
This Joel 2 Scripture is what Apostle Peter quoted at Pentecost in Acts 2 about the cloven tongue, showing what it is actually for during the future tribulation...
Joel 2:28-32
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
KJV
But some will instead say, "Well I'm not going to be here for the great tribulation. I'm going to be raptured to Heaven and live with Jesus!" Those who say such things put their trust in man, and not in God, for He has already warned us about the events of the coming tribulation and to know what to expect for the end of this world. Apparently some listen to our Lord Jesus on those things, but the majority do not.
How do you find the bible poisoning the well?
We read out of the bible what God has written. We do not read into the bible what we want it to say. The Holy Spirit as I have shown you despite your protests that it is unrelated to the subject never operates outside of Gods word. Gods word is our authority in all matters Spiritual.
The mysticism and hyper-spirituality of Pentecostals and charismatics is a glaring problem. Tongues if you are going to have them are going to be human languages. Nothing in 1 Cor 14 could lead to any other conclusion. The confusion over tongues in the Pentecostal and charismatic movements as to whether they are languages or ecstatic utterances is clear evidence of the problem. If God is in it then there will not be confusion but order.
1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
1Co 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
How shall I describe your romantic little tales that depart from reality?
Do tongues in the modern church conform to biblical purposes? Are they for a witness to the unsaved Jews?
1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass.
We read out of the bible what God has written. We do not read into the bible what we want it to say. The Holy Spirit as I have shown you despite your protests that it is unrelated to the subject never operates outside of Gods word. Gods word is our authority in all matters Spiritual.
The mysticism and hyper-spirituality of Pentecostals and charismatics is a glaring problem. Tongues if you are going to have them are going to be human languages. Nothing in 1 Cor 14 could lead to any other conclusion. The confusion over tongues in the Pentecostal and charismatic movements as to whether they are languages or ecstatic utterances is clear evidence of the problem. If God is in it then there will not be confusion but order.
1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
1Co 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
How shall I describe your romantic little tales that depart from reality?
Do tongues in the modern church conform to biblical purposes? Are they for a witness to the unsaved Jews?
1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass.
Typical straw man argument to claim that anyone is attempting to change Gods word. Rightly dividing the word of God however is our duty.
While no one could argue that Jesus is The Perfect it also is evident that this passage is prophetic and is speaking of a future perfect not a past perfect. It is also speaking of something that is going to be perfect in the sense that perfect is complete. The word of God was not complete at the time when this was penned down by Paul.
There is abundant scripture and prophecy to teach that when Christ returns so will the signs of tongues, dreams, visions and tongues. These will be visited upon Israel will include signs in the heavens foretold in Joel and as yet unfulfilled. Peter spoke to the same at Pentecost.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The word of God is a mirror not a magnifying glass.
While no one could argue that Jesus is The Perfect it also is evident that this passage is prophetic and is speaking of a future perfect not a past perfect. It is also speaking of something that is going to be perfect in the sense that perfect is complete. The word of God was not complete at the time when this was penned down by Paul.
There is abundant scripture and prophecy to teach that when Christ returns so will the signs of tongues, dreams, visions and tongues. These will be visited upon Israel will include signs in the heavens foretold in Joel and as yet unfulfilled. Peter spoke to the same at Pentecost.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The word of God is a mirror not a magnifying glass.
1 Cor 14:1 - Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy
1 Cor 14:3 - the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort.
1Cor 14:4 - Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.
1 Cor 14:5 - I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy.
1 Coor 14:15 - I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding
1 Cor 14:8 - I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you
1 Cor 14:39 - Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
1 Cor 14:38 - But if anyone ignores this, they will themselves be ignored.
You naysayers are right, there is absolutely nothing in the Bible that promotes the use of tongues. I'd ignore the whole issue if I were you.
Sheesh.
1 Cor 14:3 - the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort.
1Cor 14:4 - Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.
1 Cor 14:5 - I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy.
1 Coor 14:15 - I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding
1 Cor 14:8 - I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you
1 Cor 14:39 - Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
1 Cor 14:38 - But if anyone ignores this, they will themselves be ignored.
You naysayers are right, there is absolutely nothing in the Bible that promotes the use of tongues. I'd ignore the whole issue if I were you.
Sheesh.
My praying in tongues did not begin from reading a book on it. It did not begin from my intelligence that needed understanding. It did not begin in a church where this was happening. It did not begin because I even heard someone else.
It began one day when I was alone with Jesus and was adoring Him. Just us together. It was born out of a loving relationship. And the sounds were sweet that poured out from my spirit.
And I found afterwards that there was nothing in the bible that told me that this was not good. Or real.
It began one day when I was alone with Jesus and was adoring Him. Just us together. It was born out of a loving relationship. And the sounds were sweet that poured out from my spirit.
And I found afterwards that there was nothing in the bible that told me that this was not good. Or real.
What language? Or are you an ecstatic tongues speaker?
You are not getting the point. Allow me to interpret. If you speak in tongues it must be a knowable language. It must be consistent with all the others that speak in tongues. Different languages yes but not a mix of knowable and unknowable languages. You as the speaker must know and comprehend the language.
Tongues are not mystical and they are not a sign of hyper-spiritualism. Counterfeit tongues abound because the hearts of many have waxed cold.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The word of God is a mirror not a magnifying glass
You are not getting the point. Allow me to interpret. If you speak in tongues it must be a knowable language. It must be consistent with all the others that speak in tongues. Different languages yes but not a mix of knowable and unknowable languages. You as the speaker must know and comprehend the language.
Tongues are not mystical and they are not a sign of hyper-spiritualism. Counterfeit tongues abound because the hearts of many have waxed cold.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The word of God is a mirror not a magnifying glass
J
Acts 17 10-11
10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
so why is it when we check the scriptures like the Jews of Berea we cant find any examples of the angel language?
10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
so why is it when we check the scriptures like the Jews of Berea we cant find any examples of the angel language?
Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm neither challenging your experience, or the experience of others. My question is, especially in today's age, what good is accomplished from some people telling others, whether it's other christians, or non-believers, that they speak in tongues?
I mean, I don't think that it's debatable, that many people say they have some sort of experience with speaking in another tongue,,,,,an unknown, 'angelic', or foreign language, however they want to label it,,,,,it's obvious that something took place in the bible, and people make many claims today, so if anyone says there isn't SOMEthing going on, they're just denying reality.
But, what good does it do for others if I say, 'I speak in tongues'?
If someone says, 'I saw or experienced a miracle of healing', that can bring God glory, a demonstration of His power, as well as the person being healed being a good thing.
Or if someone says, 'I have a little bit of knowledge in a certain area (a pastor/teacher, perhaps?) by God's grace, maybe I can help you understand this or that portion of scripture if your struggling',
or if someone says, 'I have some administative experience, maybe I can help you organize your records, etc.',
But I just don't understand how anyone is helped when another person says, 'I speak in tongues'.
Again, I don't mean to be critical, I just don't understand it.
If someone says, 'I speak in tongues', who benefits, and how?
I mean, I don't think that it's debatable, that many people say they have some sort of experience with speaking in another tongue,,,,,an unknown, 'angelic', or foreign language, however they want to label it,,,,,it's obvious that something took place in the bible, and people make many claims today, so if anyone says there isn't SOMEthing going on, they're just denying reality.
But, what good does it do for others if I say, 'I speak in tongues'?
If someone says, 'I saw or experienced a miracle of healing', that can bring God glory, a demonstration of His power, as well as the person being healed being a good thing.
Or if someone says, 'I have a little bit of knowledge in a certain area (a pastor/teacher, perhaps?) by God's grace, maybe I can help you understand this or that portion of scripture if your struggling',
or if someone says, 'I have some administative experience, maybe I can help you organize your records, etc.',
But I just don't understand how anyone is helped when another person says, 'I speak in tongues'.
Again, I don't mean to be critical, I just don't understand it.
If someone says, 'I speak in tongues', who benefits, and how?
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An exert from another thread...
Please note in the following verses that the gift of tongues requires an interpretation, where as the tongues used at Pentecost were understood by the people listening with no one interpreting.
1 Corinthians 14:2
2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue[a] does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.
Please note: The tongues aren't being used to speak to the people but to God. Therefore they aren't speaking in the language of the people present supernaturally, because "no one understands them." Also, "they utter mysteries..." which means it is hidden.
1 Corinthians 14:27
27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, andsomeone must interpret.
Please note: Each individual speaks in a tongue and then a person, the interpreter, interprets what has been said in tongues. The people don't understand the tongue like at Pentecost, these tongues "someone must interpret."
1 Corinthians 14:13
13 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say.
Please note: The tongue speaker may pray that he/she interprets what they have spoken in tongues. This even points to another interesting thing; a tongue speaker can interpret their own tongues by the revelation of the Holy Spirit. Again, the tongues require an interpretation where as at Pentecost they did not (as the belief is they spoke in the languages of those present).
You may be asking, "For what reason?" After having read the previous verse. For this reason...
1 Corinthians 14:9-12
9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10 Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11 If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me. 12So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church.
Please note: The person speaking in tongues is being encouraged to interpret (in verse 13) so as to edify those listening. Notice verse 9 says, "how will anyone know what you are saying?" This means there exist in the use of the gift of tongues languages that those present do not understand. This is, obviously, contrary to how Pentecost is perceived where the people understood the tongues being spoken.
1 Corinthians 14:14-17
14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding. 16 Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer,[a] say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying? 17 You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.
Please note: This verse makes it clear that those listening to the tongues are not edified in mindwithout an interpretation because "they do not know what you are saying". Again, this reveals a different aspect to tongues that are contrary to how people perceive Pentecost. People will say tongues must be a language of the earth, or in the language of those present but clearly in these verses the tongues need to be interpreted for the edification of those around them.
Please note in the following verses that the gift of tongues requires an interpretation, where as the tongues used at Pentecost were understood by the people listening with no one interpreting.
1 Corinthians 14:2
2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue[a] does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.
Please note: The tongues aren't being used to speak to the people but to God. Therefore they aren't speaking in the language of the people present supernaturally, because "no one understands them." Also, "they utter mysteries..." which means it is hidden.
1 Corinthians 14:27
27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, andsomeone must interpret.
Please note: Each individual speaks in a tongue and then a person, the interpreter, interprets what has been said in tongues. The people don't understand the tongue like at Pentecost, these tongues "someone must interpret."
1 Corinthians 14:13
13 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say.
Please note: The tongue speaker may pray that he/she interprets what they have spoken in tongues. This even points to another interesting thing; a tongue speaker can interpret their own tongues by the revelation of the Holy Spirit. Again, the tongues require an interpretation where as at Pentecost they did not (as the belief is they spoke in the languages of those present).
You may be asking, "For what reason?" After having read the previous verse. For this reason...
1 Corinthians 14:9-12
9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10 Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11 If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me. 12So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church.
Please note: The person speaking in tongues is being encouraged to interpret (in verse 13) so as to edify those listening. Notice verse 9 says, "how will anyone know what you are saying?" This means there exist in the use of the gift of tongues languages that those present do not understand. This is, obviously, contrary to how Pentecost is perceived where the people understood the tongues being spoken.
1 Corinthians 14:14-17
14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding. 16 Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer,[a] say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying? 17 You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.
Please note: This verse makes it clear that those listening to the tongues are not edified in mindwithout an interpretation because "they do not know what you are saying". Again, this reveals a different aspect to tongues that are contrary to how people perceive Pentecost. People will say tongues must be a language of the earth, or in the language of those present but clearly in these verses the tongues need to be interpreted for the edification of those around them.
Wait a second... let me sit down here. So now you are no longer claiming that tongues ceased? You've changed your mind and now say they do exist today?
(Yeah I had you on ignore, but I just can't help looking. Trying to ignore your Mobius strip of scripture interpretations is like trying to look away from a train wreck.)
(Yeah I had you on ignore, but I just can't help looking. Trying to ignore your Mobius strip of scripture interpretations is like trying to look away from a train wreck.)
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Paul so clearly states there is no edification unless the mind understands what is being said.
So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air. 1 Cor 14:9
It is not about the natural/carnal mind, since many born again believers that are born of the spirit know that scripture does not support a private prayer language. There is not one instance where angels appeared to men and they spoke anything but a known language.
My natural mind may be in a fallen state but it does not mean I suspend being rational and discerning!
The gift of language is in and of itself an amazing thing, a God given gift to humans, and that you would use something else that your mind cannot understand is more of the flesh (psychological or emotional) than any believer who uses the words that they know and understand because that believer is not looking for signs and wonders.
So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air. 1 Cor 14:9
It is not about the natural/carnal mind, since many born again believers that are born of the spirit know that scripture does not support a private prayer language. There is not one instance where angels appeared to men and they spoke anything but a known language.
My natural mind may be in a fallen state but it does not mean I suspend being rational and discerning!
The gift of language is in and of itself an amazing thing, a God given gift to humans, and that you would use something else that your mind cannot understand is more of the flesh (psychological or emotional) than any believer who uses the words that they know and understand because that believer is not looking for signs and wonders.
It is a gift that can be used for the edification of others when interpreted and so if someone is sharing a testimony of speaking in tongues with interpretation it lets others know that the Lord can minister to them through this gift. The gift edifies oneself and others, it is varied in its uses. The testimony that glorifies God is that the Lord through the gift spoke to them, spoke to their heart or their current circumstances and that He imparted wisdom and encouragement to them. It can even be prophetic by nature of the Lord speaking.
God has equipped us in many ways, and each ministry is vitally important. Tongues and interpretation is one of those gifts listed in ministries the Lord has put in place. Yes it is listed last (among other ministries), but that is not to denote its importance, or to say its least. Rather it emphasizes order. One does not look at any list in scripture and say the last thing is least, for example in a list of sins. No, it is simply a list, one of order and the function of the body of Christ gathered together.
God has equipped us in many ways, and each ministry is vitally important. Tongues and interpretation is one of those gifts listed in ministries the Lord has put in place. Yes it is listed last (among other ministries), but that is not to denote its importance, or to say its least. Rather it emphasizes order. One does not look at any list in scripture and say the last thing is least, for example in a list of sins. No, it is simply a list, one of order and the function of the body of Christ gathered together.