Apostle Paul On Tongues In 1 Corinthians

[reneweddaybyday]

and the difference between the 2 is what? how would a believer or non believer know the difference?

That I or you may or may not be able to tell the difference does not negate the Holy Spirit working the manifestation of kinds of tongues in our day and time.

and if there is none, why would the Lord Most High direct people to use language the same as pagan priest?

I do not believe God does this.

and how would language like pagans be a sign to non believers?

1 Cor 14:22 tells us tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not. Do you doubt Scripture?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

First, I would like to clarify that non believers cannot/do not speak in tongues. One must be born again in order to speak in tongues.

I'm going to throw a question mark on that. satan copies and falsifies everything God does. That includes tongues, as evidenced by the existence of this thread. Does a false tongue have to come from a believer?

If satan is "copying and falsifying" then the result is not the Holy Spirit giving the utterance or energizing the manifestation within. Therefore, whatever you are alluding to is not the manifestation of speaking in tongues.

I've heard it used in satanic rituals. I've seen satan use unbeliever's falsehoods to confuse believers. I don't doubt that some unsaved might innocently try. I tend to believe that there are fleshly and even 'satanic tongues'.

Again, what you describe is not the manifestation.

That is again, why Paul went to some length to tell us to do it but do it correctlyor don't do it at all.

In agreement that a believer should follow the instruction of 1 Cor 12 – 14.

 

[notuptome]

Maybe you've missed the last 5 posts that I've quoted extensive Scripture. Go read up on those. I'm done quoting Scripture to people who simply ignore them.

"If no one understands then by extension only God would understand"

Yes, exactly.

"Only by impressing a false narrative can you conclude that only God understands makes the tongues an unknowable language."

False narrative seriously?

1. Paul doesn't understand his own tongues.
2. Paul says if you speak in tongues use an interpreter.

Why do you need an interpreter if tongues are the interpreter, Roger?

If tongues are a "knowable language" why does Paul say he would rather prophesy than speak in tongues when he's around people? The issue with "your narrative" is that you forget that Paul is comparing tongues with prophesy. And because your answers don't contain the understanding or desire of prophesy, they can not be completely correct.

Instead of addressing the actual chapter, you bounce around to OT and whatever else to prove your points. But let's get back to the actual chapter at hand...

"Paul said do not forbid tongues. So no church should say English only or Spanish only but all are welcome in the assembly."

No church should say English or Spanish only? What? What kind of multi-language churches do you go to? Are you really suggesting that Paul is saying that we need to have an interpreter of every known language at hand? You think that's why Paul wrote this?

Here's another question for you Roger.

If Paul was talking about known languages, why does Paul say I wish you all would speak in known languages, but especially you would prophesy?

What is the difference between known languages and prophesy Rog? Why does Paul continually compare the two?

Since you say I don't understand 1 Corinthians 14 as well as you do. Please help me out here.

And here's another one for you buddy. Why does Paul say that speaking in tongues (or known languages as you call it) builds themselves up, but NOT other people? That kinda sounds like Paul is saying that tongues is unknowable.

Can you help me interpret this Scripture with your understanding that tongues is knowable?

1 Co 14:4The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.

You clearly illustrate the great danger of modern day tongues. Art can be very beautiful but erotic art can be very dangerous. Tongues are like many modern addictions. Harmful and deadly in many ways.

Paul is illustrating a point when he says if he prays in an unknown tongue and does not understand the tongue.

1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

Paul is not encouraging the prayer of unknown tongues because his understanding is unfruitful. Paul wants the Corinthians and everyone else to pray with knowledge and to be fruitful in their prayers.

You arrive at this subject with the wrong context and there is no way for you to reach the truth of these scriptures from that perspective. Tongues were for a sign of judgment to the Jews.

Interpreters necessary when tongues, differing languages, are spoken are simply explained by the context in which they are used. Not long ago our pastor went to a wedding for one of our former interns. The wedding was in Canada and the language was French. The host pastor presided in French and when our pastor spoke the interpreter translated the English into French for the audience. Our pastor could only wonder when the audience laughed during the service at things he could not grasp because he knows no French.

1 Cor 14:1 ¶ Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
6 ¶ Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

If a man speaks in a language that only he understands no one listening to him will receive anything from his discourse. God Who knows all languages understands him and he understands himself but what does that accomplish for the greater good of the whole assembly?

What is Paul's motive, what is Paul's objective in writing to the church at Corinth? Is Paul attempting to create hyper-spiritualism or edify the body as a whole? Is Paul feeding the babes milk or encouraging hyper-spiritualism?

What is really important in this matter?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass.

 

[garee]

No. Speaking in tongues is speaking in tongues.

If the Spirit is not giving the utterance (Acts 2:4), or if the Spirit is not energizing as shown in 1 Cor 12, then it is not speaking in tongues.

Exactly if the Spirit is not giving the utterance (prophecy) then we can know it is not of God and we believe not.

The last new prophecy is over for the last two thousands years , all manners by which God spoke including tongues has ceased. The perfect or whole will of God has come and is sealed up til the end of time.Sealed with a warning to not add or subtract form the whole or perfect. What we had in part up until then the book of revelation... today we do have the perfect.

Lying signs and wonders are still be performed by the father of lies, just as God is still bringing a strong delusion so that those who believe he is still bringing new prophecy will believe the lie.

Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the "love of the truth", that they might be saved. And for "this cause" God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:2Th 2:9

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Tongues are like many modern addictions. Harmful and deadly in many ways.

Stop accusing God of despicable behavior.

God does not give anything "Harmful and deadly in many ways" to His children!

 

[jaybird88]

That I or you may or may not be able to tell the difference does not negate the Holy Spirit working the manifestation of kinds of tongues in our day and time.




I do not believe God does this.

i dont believe our Lord does either. so if you have 2 people speaking the same language, unknown to man, one is a pagan and the other claims to be Christian, what does that tell you?

1 Cor 14:22 tells us tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not. Do you doubt Scripture?

i dont doubt scripture but i do have many doubts in mankind's interpretation of scripture. mankind has proven many times over the years of making mistakes.

 

[notuptome]

Stop accusing God of despicable behavior.

God does not give anything "Harmful and deadly in many ways" to His children!

Here's a news flash for you. I'm not accusing God but those who suppose to manipulate God into contradicting Himself.

God refers to His children as sheep. Sheep need a shepherd because they are dumb and will get themselves into trouble without a kind loving shepherd to watch over them.

Pentecostals and charismatics are in churches where the shepherd pastors are like dumb dogs that cannot bark.

Isa 56:10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.

They fail to disciple the flock in the word of God that they might receive sound doctrine. They omit context and confuse folks into believing things which are against the bible. When a Jew hears tongues he thinks of judgment from God. He does this because when Israel was disobedient to God they were carried away into captivity. The people who carried them into foreign lands spoke in languages, tongues, that the Jews did not understand.

The mindset of the modern Pentecostal Charismatic is one of give me tongues and gifts. Not really and different than the malefactor crucified with Christ who wanted Jesus to exercise His divine power to save him from the death of the cross. Seeking to manipulate not seeking mercy indicating a wrong heart attitude.

Paul says to desire Spiritual gifts in 1 Cor 14:1 he does not say to desire tongues and goes on to say they are the least of the gifts. Prophecy, preach the word that men will be converted and have forgiveness of their sins.

Anything that is abused is harmful even food.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass.

 

[UnderGrace]

Stop accusing God of despicable behavior.

God does not give anything "Harmful and deadly in many ways" to His children!

It is psychological.

I have relatives that work in this field at McGill University the evidence is clear.

Montreal-based neurolinguist, Andre Roch Lecours states in his research,

"It emerged that the phonetic elements of the 'alien' speech were virtually all to be found in the speakers' native language, with a smattering of sounds from languages of which they had a little passive knowledge."

Lecours suggests that 'speaking in tongues' is a 'learned game - and a rather simple one at that,' which is based on making fluent utterances but with the semantic component switched off.

Other researchers who have studied brain scans have noticed the emotional center/sense of self are involved rather than the language centers

Oh I know, I know... ...they are biased, the research was rigged, one cannot verify something that is spiritual, how convenient is that.

Scripture does not teach private prayer language unless you read into the text and science does not verify it.


Why do we need anything above and beyond what God has already so graciously given?

 

[Cee]

Paul says spiritual gifts are good, but to desire prophesy. Once again you do not bring up prophesy in your reply. So this answer is not complete. You can not replace the words in the context and make your own meaning.

Tongues, interpretation, and prophesy - these are spiritual gifts. Paul says they are. These are not human gifts. This is not human effort. These are spiritual giftings. And until you come to grips with that. You will not be able to understand the entire chapter. That's why you gloss over only one or few verses instead of addressing them as a whole. It's exactly what the Pharisees did to Jesus and when He explained what they meant, they got upset and attacked Him. Because He broke away their human traditions and brought them into the things of God.

You clearly illustrate the great danger of modern day tongues. Art can be very beautiful but erotic art can be very dangerous. Tongues are like many modern addictions. Harmful and deadly in many ways.

Paul is illustrating a point when he says if he prays in an unknown tongue and does not understand the tongue.

1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

Paul is not encouraging the prayer of unknown tongues because his understanding is unfruitful. Paul wants the Corinthians and everyone else to pray with knowledge and to be fruitful in their prayers.

You arrive at this subject with the wrong context and there is no way for you to reach the truth of these scriptures from that perspective. Tongues were for a sign of judgment to the Jews.

Interpreters necessary when tongues, differing languages, are spoken are simply explained by the context in which they are used. Not long ago our pastor went to a wedding for one of our former interns. The wedding was in Canada and the language was French. The host pastor presided in French and when our pastor spoke the interpreter translated the English into French for the audience. Our pastor could only wonder when the audience laughed during the service at things he could not grasp because he knows no French.

1 Cor 14:1 ¶ Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
6 ¶ Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

If a man speaks in a language that only he understands no one listening to him will receive anything from his discourse. God Who knows all languages understands him and he understands himself but what does that accomplish for the greater good of the whole assembly?

What is Paul's motive, what is Paul's objective in writing to the church at Corinth? Is Paul attempting to create hyper-spiritualism or edify the body as a whole? Is Paul feeding the babes milk or encouraging hyper-spiritualism?

What is really important in this matter?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The bible is a mirror not a magnifying glass.

 

[UnderGrace]

i dont believe our Lord does either. so if you have 2 people speaking the same language, unknown to man, one is a pagan and the other claims to be Christian, what does that tell you?

i dont doubt scripture but i do have many doubts in mankind's interpretation of scripture. mankind has proven many times over the years of making mistakes.

That is exactly the point!!

Scripture has been used to support many things, let see.......... slavery, polygamy, trickle down economics, name it claim it, word of faith, glory clouds, gold dust ......

We are told to test the spirits for a reason.

 

[Cee]

Pretty much everything that Scripture talks about regarding tongues is evidence that it is speaking TO God and not people. And it's not understandable. The ONE place that people can understand it, we see it's because they were able to hear what disciples were speaking to God in their own language.

A few things for you to pray about:

What is praying in the Spirit?
Why does Scripture say the Spirit prays through us?
Why did Acts 2 focus on Every Man being able to hear what the disciples were praising God about?
Why did Paul contrast tongues and prophesy?

And why do people say we are reading into the text? We are addressing the text as WHOLE (the ENTIRE chapter) and also addressing EVERY verse that addresses tongues not quoting any humanistic research for our explanations. Don't you think it's a little unfair to say we are reading into the text when no one else here has explained IN CONTEXT what each of these Scriptures mean? While we have sought to. Continually.

1 Co 13:8 clearly is talking about love, but we are reading into it Scripture?
1 Co 14, clearly says no one can understand, but God. But we are reading into the Scripture?
1 Co 14, clearly says Paul doesn't even know what he is saying, but we are reading into it?
1 Co 14, clearly says we need an interpreter for tongues, but tongues is our interpretation engine?

Instead of addressing these Scriptures head on, the reply is (because it's the only one left), oh Paul wasn't being serious.

Yeah okay.

And Jesus wasn't either when He said we would speak in new tongues? Oh that was just for those days. I guess Jesus forgot to mention that, when He said ALL WHO BELIEVE IN ME will speak in new tongues. So now we are changing what Paul said AND what Jesus said to fit a theology, scary stuff.

And why? Because it's not "normal". Either was the dead being raised. Or demons being cast out. You call yourself believers, but what do you really believe? "Well I believe IN Jesus brother." That's great. But do you BELIEVE Jesus? Big difference. Jesus said we were to heal the sick, speak in new tongues, and even raise the dead. I haven't raised the dead, but I've prayed for few and one day I believe I will because Jesus said I would. And I believe Him. I'm a believer. But when people believe these things, do you support them? Or do you immediately say oh no, oh no, that's not for today! You can't believe what He said. Scary stuff.

And what happened when Jesus showed those around Him there was more to God than they currently understood? People attacked Jesus for it. You cast out demons by the power of demons they told Him. Hmm, sounds like what some extremists are telling people who speak in tongues and heal the sick today. Hmm, very scary stuff.

And these are the people who think they are so right and these other "foolish people" are so wrong. Because they are not "learned" in their traditions. How dare they simply believe Scripture without understanding TRADITIONAL context interpretation? But let me ask you this. Didn't God say He would confound the wise with foolish things?

But that's not even the real core here. The real core here is love. And that's the focus of Paul writing 1 Co 12-14.

Those of who DO speak in tongues agree, yes, tongues are between us and God. But when we are around others we need to build them up, love them, and encourage them. Yes, when we are around others there should be some form of interpretation. So others may be built up as well. We have clearly shown to those who have open hearts that we seek love in this way. Just as we have been guided by in 1 Co 12-14 which addresses this VERY topic.

Yet those who do not, can NOT say the same things. You do not seek prophesy. Yet Paul says to seek it. So, it us who follows Scripture completely, but not you. If you're not earnestly desiring spiritual gifts. You are not following the letter that you say you so diligently want to follow.

But, WE, we seek ALL things that Scripture says to seek and to do so in a place of love. And when we share our experiences to those who are unbelievers in this area, we are told we are deceived. Maybe it is YOU who are deceived? Scary thought to consider I know.

Let's inspect the fruit to see: Are you ignoring Scripture that is clear? Are you seeking to prove yourselves Right? Are you seeking to correct others with insulting remarks? Do you feel you are superior? Are you clinging to a tradition instead of the spiritual ways of God? Are you seeking to encourage or discourage those who's faith is STILL in the spiritual things of God? And if you ARE doing even just one of these things. Ask yourself why. Is it because it doesn't make sense to your logical mind? It doesn't fit your theology box? Who's side are you really on in this matter? I suggest you examine yourselves.

And for those who can hear what I'm about to say next, this is to you.

If you don't want to pray in tongues - fine. That's between you and God, but don't tell people it's not from God. You're not God. You're not Paul. And your Bible interpretations, like everyone's, are biased. You have been shown that people who are praying in tongues are INDEED following Scripture. This is what they believe. And this is what they have been shown by God. We give you the freedom to believe tongues are not for you. Give us the freedom to believe tongues are for us.

I believe Holy Spirit will guide us all in this matter, but we should not forbid tongues in ANY of it's forms. But even more we should seek prophesy so that we might build each other up.

The mere fact that we can show you several different sides of Scripture supporting tongues should cause you to think, hmm, maybe I shouldn't be quite so confident about this tongues don't exist idea. Maybe I should consider myself a little foolish in this area so I can grow myself.

Or I guess you can keep doing what you're doing. But, I truly believe in my heart. If you're a true believer, you are lead by the Spirit, and if you are lead by the Spirit seek Him about these things. And see what He says. At the end of the day, it's not about how well you know your Bible, or what I say, but it's truly about your relationship with HIM. He is your Savior and Lord.

But if you're a believer in theology only. And you're not lead by the Spirit of God, but only by your traditional interpretations? Well, then I believe you have bigger problems to worry about then those who choose to pray with an unknown language to their God.

C.

 

[Cee]

Slavery is clearly against Scripture. Paul writes about Onisimus being set free in Philemon.
Polygamy was supported by Scripture in the OT, but not God's perfect way which is clearly in Scripture.
Trickle down economics? It is in the OT to let the poor have the fruit of the hard to reach harvests.
Name it and claim it? Why do you care? Scripture says whatever you ask in my name, you will receive. Jesus said it.
Word of faith? Without faith it's impossible to please God, we need more faith not less.
Glory clouds? Nothing in Scripture against it. Why do you care?
Glory dust? Nothing in Scripture against it. Why do you care?

And if you have a problem with weird things. Don't read any of the OT. Because God had prophets lay on his side for an entire year, cook food on dung, marry a prostitute, had an entire building fall by marching around it, had a sea separate so people could walk through it. And the NT has weird things also: Jesus walked through walls, disappeared, was seen on a cloud, Paul was bitten by a deadly snake, had people taking handkerchiefs from his body, Peter's shadow healed people.

Everything about God is not in Scripture. We know this because nowhere in Scripture is it told that handkerchiefs or shadows would heal people. And people who sought to be lead by Scripture only missed God when He stood right in front of them. Jesus didn't die to give us a bigger book. That's one of the biggest issues I have with religion. It seems to forget that God can do what He wants. He won't contradict Himself, but He will contradict our interpretations of Him.

Are you seriously saying that God can't use a glory cloud or glory dust, If He chooses?

That is exactly the point!!

Scripture has been used to support many things, let see.......... slavery, polygamy, trickle down economics, name it claim it, word of faith, glory clouds, gold dust ......

We are told to test the spirits for a reason.

 

[Cee]

Let's look at this idea of testing the spirits because this idea is used to basically say, oh my skepticism is testing the spirits, but let's see what Scripture says about it:

1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.

Okay so here's what SCRIPTURE says about testing the spirits. Every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God and it doesn't it's not from God.

And let's read on to understand the idea here:

4Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.

If you are from God, you have overcome the "spirits".

5They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them.

So the "spirits" are not spooky "spirits", but actually worldly thinking. It is this CARNAL mindedness that is actually what John is speaking about by "testing the spirits". They SPEAK from the WORLD.

6We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

John is explaining, look we know God, so listen to us. And if they don't listen to us, they don't know God. And then John states the biggest idea of the entire book of John and 1 Co 12-14!!!

7Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

TESTING the Spirits is testing if we have LOVE or not. John is writing about loving one another BECAUSE THIS is the COMMAND of Jesus Christ, who is the King of Love.

And this COMMAND goes into spiritual giftings here:

1 Co 14:1 (NLT) Let love be your highest goal! But you should also desire the special abilities the Spirit gives--especially the ability to prophesy.

So yes, let us test the spirits! To see if they be FROM GOD or if they be FROM THE WORLD.

 

[Cee]

And while I'm at it, let's look at what it REALLY means to be a Berean since I'm sure a lot of people THINK they are being Bereans with skepticism.

First off being a Berean is not being a skeptic. It's actually the OPPOSITE! Paul had dealt with MANY skeptics in the Jews, but what was different about the BEREANS?

What was SO UNIQUE about Bereans that they were considered MORE NOBLE than any others?

They were OPEN MINDED. They searched the Scriptures to prove Paul TRUE not WRONG!

That's what being a BEREAN is.

I'll let several translations speak for itself:

New International Version
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

New Living Translation
And the people of Berea were more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, and they listened eagerly to Paul's message. They searched the Scriptures day after day to see if Paul and Silas were teaching the truth.

English Standard Version
Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.

Berean Study Bible
Now the Bereans were more noble-minded than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if these teachings were true.

Berean Literal Bible
Now these, who were more noble than those in Thessalonica, received the word with all readiness, on every day examining the Scriptures, whether these things were so.

New American Standard Bible
Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

King James Bible
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
The people here were more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, since they welcomed the message with eagerness and examined the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.

 

[notuptome]

Paul says spiritual gifts are good, but to desire prophesy. Once again you do not bring up prophesy in your reply. So this answer is not complete. You can not replace the words in the context and make your own meaning.

Tongues, interpretation, and prophesy - these are spiritual gifts. Paul says they are. These are not human gifts. This is not human effort. These are spiritual giftings. And until you come to grips with that. You will not be able to understand the entire chapter. That's why you gloss over only one or few verses instead of addressing them as a whole. It's exactly what the Pharisees did to Jesus and when He explained what they meant, they got upset and attacked Him. Because He broke away their human traditions and brought them into the things of God.

Jesus corrected doctrinal errors in the Pharisees. I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that your position on prophecy is not what the bible teaches.

Prophecy is declaring the gospel to lost souls. It is not new revelation or future telling.

Gave you the whole passage on 1 Cor 14:4 did you miss it?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Pretty much everything that Scripture talks about regarding tongues is evidence that it is speaking TO God and not people. And it's not understandable. The ONE place that people can understand it, we see it's because they were able to hear what disciples were speaking to God in their own language.

A few things for you to pray about:

What is praying in the Spirit?
Why does Scripture say the Spirit prays through us?
Why did Acts 2 focus on Every Man being able to hear what the disciples were praising God about?
Why did Paul contrast tongues and prophesy?

And why do people say we are reading into the text? We are addressing the text as WHOLE (the ENTIRE chapter) and also addressing EVERY verse that addresses tongues not quoting any humanistic research for our explanations. Don't you think it's a little unfair to say we are reading into the text when no one else here has explained IN CONTEXT what each of these Scriptures mean? While we have sought to. Continually.

1 Co 13:8 clearly is talking about love, but we are reading into it Scripture?
1 Co 14, clearly says no one can understand, but God. But we are reading into the Scripture?
1 Co 14, clearly says Paul doesn't even know what he is saying, but we are reading into it?
1 Co 14, clearly says we need an interpreter for tongues, but tongues is our interpretation engine?

Instead of addressing these Scriptures head on, the reply is (because it's the only one left), oh Paul wasn't being serious.

Yeah okay.

And Jesus wasn't either when He said we would speak in new tongues? Oh that was just for those days. I guess Jesus forgot to mention that, when He said ALL WHO BELIEVE IN ME will speak in new tongues. So now we are changing what Paul said AND what Jesus said to fit a theology, scary stuff.

And why? Because it's not "normal". Either was the dead being raised. Or demons being cast out. You call yourself believers, but what do you really believe? "Well I believe IN Jesus brother." That's great. But do you BELIEVE Jesus? Big difference. Jesus said we were to heal the sick, speak in new tongues, and even raise the dead. I haven't raised the dead, but I've prayed for few and one day I believe I will because Jesus said I would. And I believe Him. I'm a believer. But when people believe these things, do you support them? Or do you immediately say oh no, oh no, that's not for today! You can't believe what He said. Scary stuff.

And what happened when Jesus showed those around Him there was more to God than they currently understood? People attacked Jesus for it. You cast out demons by the power of demons they told Him. Hmm, sounds like what some extremists are telling people who speak in tongues and heal the sick today. Hmm, very scary stuff.

And these are the people who think they are so right and these other "foolish people" are so wrong. Because they are not "learned" in their traditions. How dare they simply believe Scripture without understanding TRADITIONAL context interpretation? But let me ask you this. Didn't God say He would confound the wise with foolish things?

But that's not even the real core here. The real core here is love. And that's the focus of Paul writing 1 Co 12-14.

Those of who DO speak in tongues agree, yes, tongues are between us and God. But when we are around others we need to build them up, love them, and encourage them. Yes, when we are around others there should be some form of interpretation. So others may be built up as well. We have clearly shown to those who have open hearts that we seek love in this way. Just as we have been guided by in 1 Co 12-14 which addresses this VERY topic.

Yet those who do not, can NOT say the same things. You do not seek prophesy. Yet Paul says to seek it. So, it us who follows Scripture completely, but not you. If you're not earnestly desiring spiritual gifts. You are not following the letter that you say you so diligently want to follow.

But, WE, we seek ALL things that Scripture says to seek and to do so in a place of love. And when we share our experiences to those who are unbelievers in this area, we are told we are deceived. Maybe it is YOU who are deceived? Scary thought to consider I know.

Let's inspect the fruit to see: Are you ignoring Scripture that is clear? Are you seeking to prove yourselves Right? Are you seeking to correct others with insulting remarks? Do you feel you are superior? Are you clinging to a tradition instead of the spiritual ways of God? Are you seeking to encourage or discourage those who's faith is STILL in the spiritual things of God? And if you ARE doing even just one of these things. Ask yourself why. Is it because it doesn't make sense to your logical mind? It doesn't fit your theology box? Who's side are you really on in this matter? I suggest you examine yourselves.

And for those who can hear what I'm about to say next, this is to you.

If you don't want to pray in tongues - fine. That's between you and God, but don't tell people it's not from God. You're not God. You're not Paul. And your Bible interpretations, like everyone's, are biased. You have been shown that people who are praying in tongues are INDEED following Scripture. This is what they believe. And this is what they have been shown by God. We give you the freedom to believe tongues are not for you. Give us the freedom to believe tongues are for us.

I believe Holy Spirit will guide us all in this matter, but we should not forbid tongues in ANY of it's forms. But even more we should seek prophesy so that we might build each other up.

The mere fact that we can show you several different sides of Scripture supporting tongues should cause you to think, hmm, maybe I shouldn't be quite so confident about this tongues don't exist idea. Maybe I should consider myself a little foolish in this area so I can grow myself.

Or I guess you can keep doing what you're doing. But, I truly believe in my heart. If you're a true believer, you are lead by the Spirit, and if you are lead by the Spirit seek Him about these things. And see what He says. At the end of the day, it's not about how well you know your Bible, or what I say, but it's truly about your relationship with HIM. He is your Savior and Lord.

But if you're a believer in theology only. And you're not lead by the Spirit of God, but only by your traditional interpretations? Well, then I believe you have bigger problems to worry about then those who choose to pray with an unknown language to their God.

C.

Oh my what a blend of mysticism and hyper-spiritualism.

It is lunacy to teach that God desires we should pray to Him in tongues. What kind of relationship does one have with their heavenly Father if they need to speak to Him in an unknown tongue.

I know of no examples of tongues prayer in the scriptures. Jesus prayed to His Father but never in tongues. Prayer in tongues is a misconception created by men who seek to be hyper-spiritual.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Cee]

Lunacy indeed.

Do you even care what Scripture says Roger? How many Scriptures do I need to show you that tongues is praying TO God? Just give me the number buddy. How many Scriptures to correct this fallacy in your interpretative bias?

Oh my what a blend of mysticism and hyper-spiritualism.

It is lunacy to teach that God desires we should pray to Him in tongues. What kind of relationship does one have with their heavenly Father if they need to speak to Him in an unknown tongue.

I know of no examples of tongues prayer in the scriptures. Jesus prayed to His Father but never in tongues. Prayer in tongues is a misconception created by men who seek to be hyper-spiritual.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Cee]

Roger,

If prophesy is declaring the gospel to lost souls, why is it written it is for believers?

My position on prophesy is what I believe Scripture teaches, but definitely not what Roger teaches.

As far as your whole passage on "1 Co 14:4". First off in order to understand 1 Co 14, you need to start at 1 Co 12. This is a letter written not a passage written. Second off your "explanation" is that Paul wasn't actually being serious and then you ignored all the Scripture before it and after it where he explained how serious this actually was to him. And it is to me.

Jesus corrected doctrinal errors in the Pharisees. I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that your position on prophecy is not what the bible teaches.

Prophecy is declaring the gospel to lost souls. It is not new revelation or future telling.

Gave you the whole passage on 1 Cor 14:4 did you miss it?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[RickyZ]

I know of no examples of tongues prayer in the scriptures. Prayer in tongues is a misconception created by men who seek to be hyper-spiritual.

Against the cause of Christ
Roger

....................................

 

[jaybird88]

of all the gifts spoken of, its pretty rare to see them in this day and age. of all the tongue examples in the bible, only once do we see angel tongues. and yet there are so many that speak in tongues today, and you would think that at least 80 percent or more of these would be spontaneously speaking in foreign languages, but its not, 99 percent of all the tongues spoken today are the angel language kind, the rarest of the rare. and the only witness to these to know they are genuine, are the ones speaking.