Are Catholics saved?
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K
YOU'RE kidding, right?
God's plan of Salvation is through Jesus Christ, alone. HIS plan is all through the Old Testament. We accept God's Lamb sacrifice, our sins are forgiven just as the Old Testament people had to offer their own lamb sacrifice.
You quote: Isaiah 7:14; Matt. 1:23 - a virgin (the Greek word used is "parthenos") will bear a Son named Emmanuel, which means "God is with us." John 1:14 - God in flesh dwelt among us. Mary is the Virgin Mother of God.
It DOESN'T say "a virgin will bear a Son and SHE shall be called......."
You quote: Matt. 2:11 - Luke emphasizes Jesus is with Mary His Mother, and the magi fall down before both of them, worshiping Jesus.
You left out that they also fell down before Joseph, the shephards and the animals, too. Matthew 2: 11 says that they bowed down and worshipped HIM (Jesus) and offered gifts to HIM (Jesus). It doesn't say that they bowed down and worshipped her, Mary, or even the word "them".
You quote Luke 1:28
Mary is "full of grace" BECAUSE the Lord is with her. The Lord is with you, too.
Ya da, ya da, ya da. whatever.
God calls Himself a "jealous God". He called Himself "I AM THAT I AM". Jesus referred that to Himself in John 8:58... Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."
It's all of a "because THIS, then THAT" thing that mankind has elevated Mary to where they want her. If you look at the history, there is NOTHING mentioned what to do with the sacrificial lamb's mother. Why? Because the focus of the ceremony is the LAMB.
Mary kept things hidden in her heart because in the 1st century middle east, if an unwed woman got prenant, by law, she should be stoned to death. WHO would actually believe this young Jewish girl back then?
Your reasoning is the same as Islam: they're right because THEY say so.
If you look at 1st century Jewish history and the fulfillment of the Jewish Messiah, there was actually no place for any other than Jesus, Himself.
You read outside the lines and not at the whole picture.
Mankind fell. Mankind needed a blood sacrifice, a lamb. Jesus is God's Lamb. We accept His sacrifice for the forgiveness of our sins.
Don't say everybody is wrong just because they don't follow you're religion's teachings of worshipping the Lamb's mother.
C
I have consdered my previous reply and I believe it to be too harsh. I think that it is hard to stand in the faith when you refuse to move forward and mature in the faith. Lukewarm is definitely not what please God. I cannot rule out a person who is never given the opportunity to learn more, but I believe that is rare.
Trust me I know, I used to be a Protestant.
In fact, it was through my efforts of "saving" a friend from "Romanism" that the Lord saw fit to guide me to the Catholic Church. I'll try to find a nice link shortly but with the New Years celebrations almost upon us, it may not be tonight.
I hope you all have a blessed New Years! May the Christ our God grant you peace joy and happiness throughout the year!
M
We are all aware of the disagreements of doctrine in the Catholic and Protestant movements. I don't think arguing about it is going to convince anyone to go from one side to the other. I have seen many Catholics who are saved, having clear and tangible signs of having the Holy Spirit, and clearly have the fruit of the Spirit.
I also have seen many Catholics who come to mass only to appease their conscience with God, by doing the rituals and traditions laid out for them to do so. This is unfortunate because they have to keep coming back to do this, because they don't realize that they need a relationship with Jesus and they don't have the full revelation of what Jesus did for them on the cross. Many(not all) of the traditions of the Catholic church were started with good intentions, but ended up being destructive for the believer because most don't completely know why they do what they do. They do it because they are told to, being content with not knowing why. I am not saying this is true for every Catholic, but certainly the majority. It focuses too much on what you can do yourself to cleanse yourself from sin, rather than to rely on Jesus' atoning sacrifice on the cross, which is the only acceptable sacrifice for sin.
A truly repentant heart towards Jesus, and Jesus alone, is the only way for someone to be forgiven. Prayer to Jesus alone is heard in heaven. This is due to the fact that God alone has the ability to hear everything that is happening on the Earth, and God alone has the ability to transcend time and space. Another point is that all people who were saved are around the throne petitioning God to fulfill His promises to His people, not just the Catholic "saints." So I might as well, pray to Uncle Johnny and get the same results as praying to Mary.
I am not suggesting that we do pray to relatives, only to drive the point home that the only way we can surely be heard in heaven is to pray to God. Jesus said the ONLY way to the Father was through Him. That Jesus Himself is interceding to the Father on our behalf at all times. The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit are in perfect unity as One, and do not need inform each other of anything on their hearts, but are fully God manifest. Why pray to anyone else but Jesus? Jesus is the only one effective and complete communion with the Godhead, and the only way to be sure that something happens when you pray. Think about it, why do the saints around the throne(according to the Bible) keep repeating their petitions around the throne? Because God has not fulfilled the promises yet. He will eventually. But when Jesus petitions the Father, His heart is one with Jesus' heart, so you get an instant release of an answer from heaven.
I do believe in honoring (not worshipping/praying to) the saints of the past. Many of them moved in amazing power in the Holy Spirit and many people were saved, healed, and delivered by their ministries; to name a few, Catherine of Siena, Francis of Assisi, Bernard of Clairvaux, Dominic de Guzman, Nicholas of Myra. The impact that they had on the church as a whole during their time is undeniable. These were people in the Catholic Church who did amazing exploits for the Kingdom of God, who were able to navigate past the discrepancies in the Catholic Church but still honor what God was doing in the Catholic Church. I encourage all of you, Catholic or not, to read about their lives. My hope is that it will drive a Holy hunger for God in all of your lives to be able to thrive with God in darkness. The church has not learned how to truly commune in fellowship with God, and many leaders in the church are satisfied with the status quo.
Too many Christians are so afraid of the darkness in certain areas of the church, or certain areas of the secular world. God did not command us to be afraid of, or avoid the darkness, He commanded us to not be in fellowship or follow those in darkness. We have mistaken his commandment to mean we should isolate ourselves from those in darkness. Jesus Himself hung around sinners all the time and was able to be a light in the darkness. He fully expects us to do the same. But we as a church need to learn how to effect the darkness and not the other way around. There are many around the world who have learned to this in intimate relationship with God.
I have a friend who is in Africa right now, she has started 10000 churches in Africa in just 20 years. Yes that number is right 10000. When she enters into a village of unbelievers, she tells them to bring their deaf people, because Jesus is going to heal every single one of them because He Loves them. She has near 100% success with this. I have never met someone so full of Love and Compassion for people, so in Love with Jesus, and so able to navigate past difficulties, such as her pastors being beheaded by the Muslims, gun fire into the center of her compound, threats from the government, angry mobs, her churches being burned to the ground, threats on her life, kidnappings, being shipwrecked in the middle of the ocean to go preach the gospel to some remote island, etc etc... and yet she is able to have so much Love for the people doing these things to her. I just know that what we are doing in our comfortable complacency in the western church is not what God intended for us to be doing.
People are not being turned by our intellectual gospel that remains only a concept to people that they hold on to. The Lost need the church to step up and figure out why the Holy Spirit is not honoring their attempts at evangelism, because if He was everyone we approached would get saved. My friend brings whole villages to God consistently. We need to really figure out why many of our efforts are fruitless and discouraging. If God truly desires that none should perish, then why are people perishing? It's not a problem on God's side, so perhaps it is a problem with people in the church?
I am so tired of people bickering within the church about their disagreements, and so many people in the world being sent to hell because they never heard about Jesus. Yes that's right, their are many villages isolated in Africa, even in Mexico, who have never in all of their history heard about Jesus. Wake up Church! Stop bickering and start doing what Jesus told us to do. He never emphasized sitting in one place while we figured out correct doctrine, but despite what is going on internally to Go, and make disciples of all nations! Let's figure out our doctrinal differences, but not at the expense of dispersing darkness on the Earth.
I also have seen many Catholics who come to mass only to appease their conscience with God, by doing the rituals and traditions laid out for them to do so. This is unfortunate because they have to keep coming back to do this, because they don't realize that they need a relationship with Jesus and they don't have the full revelation of what Jesus did for them on the cross. Many(not all) of the traditions of the Catholic church were started with good intentions, but ended up being destructive for the believer because most don't completely know why they do what they do. They do it because they are told to, being content with not knowing why. I am not saying this is true for every Catholic, but certainly the majority. It focuses too much on what you can do yourself to cleanse yourself from sin, rather than to rely on Jesus' atoning sacrifice on the cross, which is the only acceptable sacrifice for sin.
A truly repentant heart towards Jesus, and Jesus alone, is the only way for someone to be forgiven. Prayer to Jesus alone is heard in heaven. This is due to the fact that God alone has the ability to hear everything that is happening on the Earth, and God alone has the ability to transcend time and space. Another point is that all people who were saved are around the throne petitioning God to fulfill His promises to His people, not just the Catholic "saints." So I might as well, pray to Uncle Johnny and get the same results as praying to Mary.
I am not suggesting that we do pray to relatives, only to drive the point home that the only way we can surely be heard in heaven is to pray to God. Jesus said the ONLY way to the Father was through Him. That Jesus Himself is interceding to the Father on our behalf at all times. The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit are in perfect unity as One, and do not need inform each other of anything on their hearts, but are fully God manifest. Why pray to anyone else but Jesus? Jesus is the only one effective and complete communion with the Godhead, and the only way to be sure that something happens when you pray. Think about it, why do the saints around the throne(according to the Bible) keep repeating their petitions around the throne? Because God has not fulfilled the promises yet. He will eventually. But when Jesus petitions the Father, His heart is one with Jesus' heart, so you get an instant release of an answer from heaven.
I do believe in honoring (not worshipping/praying to) the saints of the past. Many of them moved in amazing power in the Holy Spirit and many people were saved, healed, and delivered by their ministries; to name a few, Catherine of Siena, Francis of Assisi, Bernard of Clairvaux, Dominic de Guzman, Nicholas of Myra. The impact that they had on the church as a whole during their time is undeniable. These were people in the Catholic Church who did amazing exploits for the Kingdom of God, who were able to navigate past the discrepancies in the Catholic Church but still honor what God was doing in the Catholic Church. I encourage all of you, Catholic or not, to read about their lives. My hope is that it will drive a Holy hunger for God in all of your lives to be able to thrive with God in darkness. The church has not learned how to truly commune in fellowship with God, and many leaders in the church are satisfied with the status quo.
Too many Christians are so afraid of the darkness in certain areas of the church, or certain areas of the secular world. God did not command us to be afraid of, or avoid the darkness, He commanded us to not be in fellowship or follow those in darkness. We have mistaken his commandment to mean we should isolate ourselves from those in darkness. Jesus Himself hung around sinners all the time and was able to be a light in the darkness. He fully expects us to do the same. But we as a church need to learn how to effect the darkness and not the other way around. There are many around the world who have learned to this in intimate relationship with God.
I have a friend who is in Africa right now, she has started 10000 churches in Africa in just 20 years. Yes that number is right 10000. When she enters into a village of unbelievers, she tells them to bring their deaf people, because Jesus is going to heal every single one of them because He Loves them. She has near 100% success with this. I have never met someone so full of Love and Compassion for people, so in Love with Jesus, and so able to navigate past difficulties, such as her pastors being beheaded by the Muslims, gun fire into the center of her compound, threats from the government, angry mobs, her churches being burned to the ground, threats on her life, kidnappings, being shipwrecked in the middle of the ocean to go preach the gospel to some remote island, etc etc... and yet she is able to have so much Love for the people doing these things to her. I just know that what we are doing in our comfortable complacency in the western church is not what God intended for us to be doing.
People are not being turned by our intellectual gospel that remains only a concept to people that they hold on to. The Lost need the church to step up and figure out why the Holy Spirit is not honoring their attempts at evangelism, because if He was everyone we approached would get saved. My friend brings whole villages to God consistently. We need to really figure out why many of our efforts are fruitless and discouraging. If God truly desires that none should perish, then why are people perishing? It's not a problem on God's side, so perhaps it is a problem with people in the church?
I am so tired of people bickering within the church about their disagreements, and so many people in the world being sent to hell because they never heard about Jesus. Yes that's right, their are many villages isolated in Africa, even in Mexico, who have never in all of their history heard about Jesus. Wake up Church! Stop bickering and start doing what Jesus told us to do. He never emphasized sitting in one place while we figured out correct doctrine, but despite what is going on internally to Go, and make disciples of all nations! Let's figure out our doctrinal differences, but not at the expense of dispersing darkness on the Earth.
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W
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ALL THIS I DID FOR THEE [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I CAME[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] ... because of "your" sin[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I DIED ... to pay for "your" sin[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I AROSE[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] ... to keep "you" saved eternally[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I CAME ... because of "your" sin[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: " Romans 3:10[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:23[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners;" I Timothy 1:15a[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I DIED ... to pay for "your" sin[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed." Isaiah 53:5[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." Romans 5:8 & 9[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:" Colossians 1:14[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I AROSE ... to keep "you" saved eternally[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them." Hebrews 7:25[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." John 10:27 & 28[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son." I John 5:11[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]YOU MUST REPENT ... admitting you are guilty, that you cannot do "anything" to save or help save yourself, and that you need Jesus Christ[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." Luke 13:3[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Let the wicked forsake his way. and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God. for he will abundantly pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord." Isaiah 55:7 & 8[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Not by works of righteousness which we have done. but according to his mercy he saved us," Titus 3:5a[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Romans 4:5[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]YOU MUST TRUST ... putting your "complete" faith in Jesus Christ to save you[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform." Romans 4:20 & 21[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus." Romans 3:26[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." Romans 3:28[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]WHAT IS YOUR DECISION?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I CHOOSE TO TRUST JESUS AS MY SAVIOUR[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"He that believeth on him is not condemned:" John 3: 18a[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Romans 10:10[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:13[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I CHOOSE TO REJECT JESUS AND KEEP MY WAY[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"... but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3 :18b[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:15 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Please e-mail us ([email protected]) to let us know if after reading it, you have decided to trust Jesus Christ as your Saviour.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+1]Tract No. 103[/SIZE][/FONT]
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Not sure what the point of the last post was, but just watned to pop in and say I haven't forgotten about this thread. I've just been dealing with being sick and having a sick baby as well. Prayers would be appreciated for my family.
Also, for those of you on the old calendar (Julian) Hope y'all had a Merry Christmas!
Also, for those of you on the old calendar (Julian) Hope y'all had a Merry Christmas!
K
Many catholics pray to those who supposedly went to Heaven instead of the One who got them there. The Book of Acts is actually "The Book of (the) Acts of the Apostiles by the Holy Spirit".
When the Holy Spirit came, as promised by Jesus, ALL the people received power. Power to become witness as the Holy Spirit gave them the words to speak.
It is the SAME SPIRIT that moves believers today.
Are Catholics Saved? If they are under the power and annointing of the Holy Spirit and are a witness of Jesus....
When the Holy Spirit came, as promised by Jesus, ALL the people received power. Power to become witness as the Holy Spirit gave them the words to speak.
It is the SAME SPIRIT that moves believers today.
Are Catholics Saved? If they are under the power and annointing of the Holy Spirit and are a witness of Jesus....
K
i think they are saved! they do pray to mary but they also worship the God of the bible! Catholics are misguided Christians who doesn't what they're doing! but god is merciful and just! as long as they accept Jesus as their lord and savior and they're good
Pray to Mary for what?
Only God can deliver and Jesus says several times in His Word to ask in His Name.
Yea, yea, yea. Catholics can say that since Mary and all their "saints" are in Heaven now, THEIR prayers are really, REALLY good because they are right THERE, in Heaven.
However, you never really hear of the disciples praying to Moses, Noah or even Elijah.
Jesus says to ask God. Pray TO God. We can pray FOR others and WITH others, ... but we're praying TO God.
By praying TO anybody else is not right.
C
Do I believe that a Catholic can be saved? Of course, depending on their individual beliefs concerning Christ, His divinity and the cross. However, as far as an organization goes, the Catholic church operates in tremendous error to the bible.
The chief problem with the catholic church is that they do not believe in the literal second coming of Christ which is clearly taught throughout New Testament scripture. For centuries the Catholic church believed that the return of Christ and His 1000 year reign on earth was nothing more than symbolic and that they were the fulfillment of such prophecy with the pope assuming the role of Christ as figurehead.
Considering that Catholicism has been around for roughly 1600 or so years is proof enough that this belief is clearly in error. However if you read your bible for yourself, you will discover that this Catholic belief is not only unscriptural but down right heretical when you take into account that over the centuries the pope in his false assumption that he is equal to Christ, has not only modified but literally changed the wording and meaning of scripture in catholic doctrinal libraries.
The chief problem with the catholic church is that they do not believe in the literal second coming of Christ which is clearly taught throughout New Testament scripture. For centuries the Catholic church believed that the return of Christ and His 1000 year reign on earth was nothing more than symbolic and that they were the fulfillment of such prophecy with the pope assuming the role of Christ as figurehead.
Considering that Catholicism has been around for roughly 1600 or so years is proof enough that this belief is clearly in error. However if you read your bible for yourself, you will discover that this Catholic belief is not only unscriptural but down right heretical when you take into account that over the centuries the pope in his false assumption that he is equal to Christ, has not only modified but literally changed the wording and meaning of scripture in catholic doctrinal libraries.
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