Are children born saved?

[PS]

Well they are the main perps. but they are not alone. I believe Lutherans, Anglicans and perhaps Episcopals believe in child baptisims also. For the forgiveness of natural inborn sins not yet commited.

What we do in our church is to dedicate a baby to the Lord in the same way Hannah gave her son Samuel back to God.

 

[PS]

So are the sins of adam & eve upon their quite little heads or not?

No. We are judged for our own sins and not the sins of others.

 

[John146]

I've heard that too many times now. Christians need to stop just repeating what other people said who didn't know any more about the Bible than them. The fact that the poor beggar has a name has no logical connection to a narration of a real account. If somebody didn't tell you it did, you would never have connected the two ideas. The rich man had no name because he wound up in hell, and there is no use for a name in hell. Those who are saved have names, and are known by God. Lazarus was carried to Abraham's "side" or "bosom" or whatever the word means. This is actually a reference to being saved, and Jesus had not yet gone to the Cross and rose again. Abraham was justified by faith rather than the law. The rich man went to Hell, but nobody has gone to the burning fires of hell yet. This proves that Jesus was not giving a real incident, and the story is only relevant as a parable anyway, because the people there didn't likely know Lazarus, and Jesus doesn't explain who he is, as there were many beggars. If he was talking about something that actually happened (and in reality there were many incidents of that type), why didn't he specify the exact identity of the two men?

What proves this was not a real event? You saying it without any reasoning or evidence? Exact identity? HE DID! When you don't take the word of truth literally, you can make it say anything you want it to say. That's a dangerous viewpoint of Scripture. Are you promoting the RCC doctrine of purgatory?

 

[Truthseer]

What proves this was not a real event? You saying it without any reasoning or evidence? Exact identity? HE DID! When you don't take the word of truth literally, you can make it say anything you want it to say. That's a dangerous viewpoint of Scripture. Are you promoting the RCC doctrine of purgatory?

I explained it completely, but the idea is lodged in your belief system. Believe what you want.

 

[Jimbone]

Not only this, but in 1 Cor 7:12-15 it says,

12To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her. 13If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him. 14For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. 15But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace.

I think this applies to the believers baby for sure, but again taken with everything else we are told about our God I still trust Him with any child.

 

[Truthseer]

I explained it completely, but the idea is lodged in your belief system. Believe what you want.

Oh. BTW, there is nothing but purgatory right now. I don't know who made up the erroneous doctrinal tenant that we all go to hell immediately after death. If we did, no one would be judged at the end of Millennium. Besides, I pointed out in another post that the demons who spoke to Jesus in two different incidents before being cast out indicated they were not in hell yet. One says "are you come to torment us before us before the time". The ones named Legion begged Jesus not to send them into the abyss. They didn't mean the water. They meant the lake of fire. Being literal in scripture refers to letters and words, not the meanings of the intentions of the writer. This is why fundamental and literal are inadequate ways of interpreting scripture.

 

[calibob]

Not only this, but in 1 Cor 7:12-15 it says,

12To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her. 13If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him. 14For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. 15But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace.

I think this applies to the believers baby for sure, but again taken with everything else we are told about our God I still trust Him with any child.

Good choice! I brought this up because in many denominations chlidhood, even infant baptisims are manditory. Because they believe that sin is inherited from Adam and Eve through birth and all unbaptized people go to hell automaticly even infants and babies. No one yet has defended this belief so my next question is why do they still cling to a religion in which they don't believe?

 

[calibob]

Oh. BTW, there is nothing but purgatory right now. I don't know who made up the erroneous doctrinal tenant that we all go to hell immediately after death. If we did, no one would be judged at the end of Millennium. Besides, I pointed out in another post that the demons who spoke to Jesus in two different incidents before being cast out indicated they were not in hell yet. One says "are you come to torment us before us before the time". The ones named Legion begged Jesus not to send them into the abyss. They didn't mean the water. They meant the lake of fire. Being literal in scripture refers to letters and words, not the meanings of the intentions of the writer. This is why fundamental and literal are inadequate ways of interpreting scripture.

Jesus released the prisoners from Abrahams busom. The first into paradise was the criminal who defended Jesus from the other cross. Purgatory has been extinct 2000 years. The dead are merely sleeping till the rapture.

 

[John146]

I've heard that too many times now. Christians need to stop just repeating what other people said who didn't know any more about the Bible than them. The fact that the poor beggar has a name has no logical connection to a narration of a real account(Does the Lord use a proper name in any other parable?...Nope, so logically, yes it does agree). If somebody didn't tell you it did, you would never have connected the two ideas. The rich man had no name because he wound up in hell, and there is no use for a name in hell(Agreed). Those who are saved have names, and are known by God. Lazarus was carried to Abraham's "side" or "bosom" or whatever the word mean(Agreed). This is actually a reference to being saved, and Jesus had not yet gone to the Cross and rose again. Abraham was justified by faith rather than the law. The rich man went to Hell, but nobody has gone to the burning fires of hell yet(only your opinion with no biblical evidence). This proves (your using your own opinion as proof) that Jesus was not giving a real incident, and the story is only relevant as a parable anyway, because the people there didn't likely know Lazarus, and Jesus doesn't explain who he is as there were many beggars. If he was talking about something that actually happened (and in reality there were many incidents of that type), why didn't he specify the exact identity of the two men?

see comments in bold above...

The rich man was a real Jewish person with a real family.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[jaybird88]

i would not punish an innocent baby in hell forever and ever, and Jesus says our Father in heaven loves us more than that. I like the common sense lessons Jesus teaches, but when you start adding goofy doctrines such as babies going to hell, common sense goes right out the window.

 

[Miri]

I do believe there is no sin until knowledge of sin arrives.
That’s why Adam and Eve were innocent until they ate of the
tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Having said that - a spanner in the works -
John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit even while
in His mothers womb. The baby lept when his mother met
Mary who was carrying baby Jesus.

So yes it’s possible for a baby to be spirit filled in the womb.

The bible also says “from the womb I knew you”.

 

[calibob]

My father dropped out of school when he was 10 to work on the family farm in Tennesee about 1925. He was told he was a Southern Democrat, so that's what he claimed to be. He would never think of doing something as disrespectful like asking what does that mean? He just took it at face value, no questions asked, I know he voted for Roosevelt twice, he didn't know what socialist meant either. He also voted for Kennedy. He was shocked when he was drafted and learned black people don't have tails like he was taught.

I was taught I was a Catholic but when I got old enough to realize that it was mostly nonsense I quit believing in it and later took the time to investigate in order to chose for myself what I decided to believe and became a Christian by reading the Bible. Years before I went back to church so I really don't understand why people bet their souls on what they were taught when they become old enough to realize all men are liars. if I knew how to transfer this response to my other string about why do people belong to denominations in which they don't believe without retyping it I would. I took a why to reformulate my thoughts and post this so please be kind.

I was akso taught America is always right, we can't be beaten and God is on our side so I joined the military 'cause I wanted to be on the right side for world war 3. Then found out the truth about viet nam when I was 20 so there is a wide margin between what I may think and what I believe. I'm done with this string. If you'd like to discus it like adults, PM me but don't try and lecture me because I won't accept your authority any more than the Popes'.

 

[PS]

My father dropped out of school when he was 10 to work on the family farm in Tennesee about 1925. He was told he was a Southern Democrat, so that's what he claimed to be. He would never think of doing something as disrespectful like asking what does that mean? He just took it at face value, no questions asked, I know he voted for Roosevelt twice, he didn't know what socialist meant either. He also voted for Kennedy. He was shocked when he was drafted and learned black people don't have tails like he was taught.

I was taught I was a Catholic but when I got old enough to realize that it was mostly nonsense I quit believing in it and later took the time to investigate in order to chose for myself what I decided to believe and became a Christian by reading the Bible. Years before I went back to church so I really don't understand why people bet their souls on what they were taught when they become old enough to realize all men are liars. if I knew how to transfer this response to my other string about why do people belong to denominations in which they don't believe without retyping it I would. I took a why to reformulate my thoughts and post this so please be kind.

I was akso taught America is always right, we can't be beaten and God is on our side so I joined the military 'cause I wanted to be on the right side for world war 3. Then found out the truth about viet nam when I was 20 so there is a wide margin between what I may think and what I believe. I'm done with this string. If you'd like to discus it like adults, PM me but don't try and lecture me because I won't accept your authority any more than the Popes'.

No need to lecture you. I totally agree and understand where you are coming from. I admire your rational thinking. May God richly bless you.

 

[Jewel5712]

No

 

[Miri]

My father dropped out of school when he was 10 to work on the family farm in Tennesee about 1925. He was told he was a Southern Democrat, so that's what he claimed to be. He would never think of doing something as disrespectful like asking what does that mean? He just took it at face value, no questions asked, I know he voted for Roosevelt twice, he didn't know what socialist meant either. He also voted for Kennedy. He was shocked when he was drafted and learned black people don't have tails like he was taught.

I was taught I was a Catholic but when I got old enough to realize that it was mostly nonsense I quit believing in it and later took the time to investigate in order to chose for myself what I decided to believe and became a Christian by reading the Bible. Years before I went back to church so I really don't understand why people bet their souls on what they were taught when they become old enough to realize all men are liars. if I knew how to transfer this response to my other string about why do people belong to denominations in which they don't believe without retyping it I would. I took a why to reformulate my thoughts and post this so please be kind.

I was akso taught America is always right, we can't be beaten and God is on our side so I joined the military 'cause I wanted to be on the right side for world war 3. Then found out the truth about viet nam when I was 20 so there is a wide margin between what I may think and what I believe. I'm done with this string. If you'd like to discus it like adults, PM me but don't try and lecture me because I won't accept your authority any more than the Popes'.

I agree completely about the need to think for oneself.
Looking back, a lot of what I was taught at Sunday school was wrong.

I thought heaven was based on another planet as we use to sing a
song that went “somewhere in outer space God has prepared a place
for all those who trust Him and obey”.

I use to think Jonah was so evil he was swallowed by a whale, then later
in life I found out he was a great evangelist and prophet.

I thought the devil was a talking snake.

I thought Jesus was meek and mild even though I didn’t even know
what being meek and mild was.

I thought there was only 12 people who followed Jesus.

I thought a man in a red suit came down my chimney every year.

Anyway yes we all have grow up and increase in knowledge and
discover truths for ourselves. Our parents faith doesn’t save us.
To a certain degree, those who were brought up in Christian families
are indoctrinated from a young age. Not always for the better as many
think they are Christians when they are not. Each person has to build
a personal relationship with Christ and receive salvation.

 

[Jimbone]

Calibob, Miri, I couldn't agree more, issues like babies in hell, and thinking of God in terms of some big bad monster that just cast people into hell in a very humanistic "vengeful anger" is a false character made from 100% fleshly thinking. These are spiritual truths that we start to learn after our spiritual connection to God is reconciled through Jesus. Then we are reborn, our spirit is no longer dead but made alive, and we are reconnected to Him ("re" as in Adam and Eve were created with this connection and it was severed in the fall, not as in we had it before ourselves) and filled with His Spirit that guide us to all truth, we now live in spiritually connected relationship with God, for real, just as we were created to be, now made whole we are able to grow closer to God in truth, now made new and able to truly love, we broken people made new are now called by our very Creator to go make disciples of all nations. Oh my goodness I praise Jesus name!!!!! What a GLORIOUS God we serve! I am still in complete awe of His power, love, and His genius plan for His kingdom, and I have to agree this God we serve a great God, the very one that covered our shame and nakedness after the fall, the very same one that was born into His creation teaching us the truth for our benefit, that came to lay down His life to save us, and the one that we took, beat, shamed, and stripped His coverings to exposed His nakedness, then nailed Him to the cross so He could take the "cup" He prayed about, and took the righteous wrath of God that we rightly deserve onto Himself who was guiltless, He who fulfilled the law of God perfectly, and rightly earned life, so by His glory His righteousness could justly be applied to us who He loved first, by His grace, through faith in the one who justifies, Jesus. (huge Rick Flair WWWHHHHOOOOOO!!!), I don't think that God sends babies to hell, Like Calibob said we have to use our own head in these things, and like Miri said, we are in Christ, we are in connection with God, through His word and that connection we have to deduct our answers in His light. So I just could not agree with either one of you any more. Praise Jesus.

 

[Jimbone]

Sorry about the wall of text, I didn't look at it again until it was too late.

 

[Miri]

Sorry about the wall of text, I didn't look at it again until it was too late.

Preach it 😊

 

[ForestGreenCook]

We become too familiar with words. Saved...saved from what? I hope everyone agrees from the punishment of sin. What sin could the baby have committed? If the baby hasn’t sinned, why should they be punished or saved from punishment?

All natural births are born with the sin nature of Adam. Those babies that die early are regenerated (born of the Spirit) before they die. The non-elect do not die in their youth, but live to be old. (Ps 73).

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Children before the age of accountability if they die will either go to heaven, or they will cease to exist for they surely do not have punishment coming.

We are born innocent until we are at the age of accountability, which God knows that, and we would also know right from wrong in the proper perspective at that time.

Angels are ministering spirits sent to all who shall inherit salvation, and the angels always behold the face of the Father for the little ones, for they are protected spiritually before the age of accountability.

We are born innocent, and the sin of Adam and Eve does not come upon us when we are born, for everybody shall bear their own sins.

It would of never entered Adam and Eve's mind to eat off of the forbidden tree unless an outside source tempted them, so God allowed Satan to tempt Eve and she sinned, and then Eve was the outside source that tempted Adam by showing him she did not die and he sinned.

Then they knew good and evil, which means they had a choice how they would conduct themselves upon earth, so all their offspring is born with a choice, so they are born not knowing God, so they will do wrong before they come to God and repent, so all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

So we are born innocent until we understand wrong and do it instead of the good.

So babies are born innocent with no sin attached to their record, which is why the Bible says the angels always behold the face of the Father for the little ones, but are born not knowing God, and will do wrong before they come to God and repent of the wrong.

Since babies are born innocent do they go to heaven, and the question is do they have a soul or not, for if they have a soul it would live forever, but if they do not have a soul until the age of accountability then they would cease to exist but not be punished.

If babies have a soul then they would be saved from birth, and they lost it only because they sinned before they ever acknowledged the truth of God, which everybody will do.

So are we born with a soul, or do we receive it later.

It kind of does not make sense that a baby would be saved for they did not have to go through any trials or tribulations, and the things a saint at the age of accountability has to go through, so it would seem like they would not qualify, for they knew nothing about it.

But they might be saved.

I tend to believe that they would be saved if they are born in to this world, and die before the age of accountability, but not saved as a miscarriage.

But I do not know, but I know they are born innocent with no sin on their record, and the angels always behold the face of the Father for the little ones, so they are protected spiritually until they do wrong with an understanding of it, and the angels are sent to the saints that shall inherit eternal life.

Can you give me scripture on "the age of accountability"?