From this point on I have nothing to do with you. You are strange and a contrary man with your own beliefs. You are dead to me in the same fashion that you believe in the death of the saints. To have God impute some (65) divine imputations, including His own righteousness, unto those that believe upon His Son and to have an active and ongoing relationship and fellowship with that believer from that point on, to all of a sudden at death just cut it all off, JUST LIKE THAT, is irresponsible, strange, weird and ungodly. To think that there are those like yourself that make the love, grace and life of God so abstract, that you would have such strange beliefs that depart from a living faith, that comes from a living God that has given us the living words of eternal life, is not only baffling but is a denial of the doctrine of Christ and the faith given to us to live by. Then you come back and say that you stand by what you believe and have said, maybe you do but does surely doesn't.
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L
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6
(5) For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
(6) Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
(5) For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
(6) Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
L
1st reason why it could not be Samuel
Deuteronomy 18:10-12
(10) There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
(11) Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
(12) For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
1 Samuel 28:7
(7) Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.
Saul knew it was wrong
1 Samuel 28:9
(9) And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?
Saul did not see Samuel only the witch
1 Samuel 28:13-14
(13) And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
(14) And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
If it was Samuel then why did he come up and not down from heaven?
1 Samuel 28:15
(15) And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
Why would Samuel and Saul end up in the same place with the same reward?
1 Samuel 28:19
(19) Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.
It was already planned for their to be a battle the next day
1 Samuel 28:4-5
(4) And the Philistines gathered themselves together, and came and pitched in Shunem: and Saul gathered all Israel together, and they pitched in Gilboa.
(5) And when Saul saw the host of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart greatly trembled.
God was not answering Saul
1 Samuel 28:6
(6) And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.
Satan already knew that their would be a battle and that God was not answering Saul
Deuteronomy 18:10-12
(10) There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
(11) Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
(12) For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
1 Samuel 28:7
(7) Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.
Saul knew it was wrong
1 Samuel 28:9
(9) And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?
Saul did not see Samuel only the witch
1 Samuel 28:13-14
(13) And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
(14) And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
If it was Samuel then why did he come up and not down from heaven?
1 Samuel 28:15
(15) And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
Why would Samuel and Saul end up in the same place with the same reward?
1 Samuel 28:19
(19) Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.
It was already planned for their to be a battle the next day
1 Samuel 28:4-5
(4) And the Philistines gathered themselves together, and came and pitched in Shunem: and Saul gathered all Israel together, and they pitched in Gilboa.
(5) And when Saul saw the host of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart greatly trembled.
God was not answering Saul
1 Samuel 28:6
(6) And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.
Satan already knew that their would be a battle and that God was not answering Saul
If Saul "actually saw" Samuel, why did he have to ask 'what form is he of?' Satan also had prior knowledge of Samuel - the woman had a "familiar spirit" so she was operating under that spirit's master - Satan. Just as angels can take on human personification: Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. - so also can those under Satan take on form.
Then I am sorry to say Red that you must feel the same about me. I would just like to say that the dead do not know that they are dead and corrupting (for they know nothing) and the years and years that some may lay dead - the next thing that they remember is the resurrection. "in a moment in the twinkling of an eye" - they have no measurement of time - being dead. That comforted me when my mother died and it comforts me concerning my own death. I am so glad that I have this hope within me.
There are those who believe the word of God that make the love, grace, and life of Jesus Christ and the promises of God a valuable part of their life and faith - that no matter what mans' religion says or what persecution they receive - they continue to stand in faith on what God says not man. God has given us eternal life through his Son Jesus Christ and this is our hope. The only reason these things are baffling to you is because you do not understand how the devil operates and was operating in this woman. It's there in black and white.
Then I am sorry to say Red that you must feel the same about me. I would just like to say that the dead do not know that they are dead and corrupting (for they know nothing) and the years and years that some may lay dead - the next thing that they remember is the resurrection. "in a moment in the twinkling of an eye" - they have no measurement of time - being dead. That comforted me when my mother died and it comforts me concerning my own death. I am so glad that I have this hope within me.
There are those who believe the word of God that make the love, grace, and life of Jesus Christ and the promises of God a valuable part of their life and faith - that no matter what mans' religion says or what persecution they receive - they continue to stand in faith on what God says not man. God has given us eternal life through his Son Jesus Christ and this is our hope. The only reason these things are baffling to you is because you do not understand how the devil operates and was operating in this woman. It's there in black and white.
I
LAODICEA
YOU SAID: AND IM NOT SURPRISED
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6
(5) For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
(6) Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
(5) The dead dosn't know anything...its void of its soul and spirit and its decaying in the grave.
(6) The deads love, hatred, and envy is perished..FROM THE EARTH...How do I know this? because the rest of the verse says it...neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun... That's planet earth my friend. Thats also why Abraham denied the Rich Mans request.
AS FAR AS THE SOUL IS CONCERNED..JESUS SAID THE FOLLOWING:
LUKE 16:25-26
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
So obviously Jesus doesn't agree with your interpretation of the above verses that you posted. He says that you are wrong.
You still have failed to answer how Jesus is not a Liar if you don't believe Abraham made the above statement.
YOU SAID: AND IM NOT SURPRISED
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6
(5) For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
(6) Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
(5) The dead dosn't know anything...its void of its soul and spirit and its decaying in the grave.
(6) The deads love, hatred, and envy is perished..FROM THE EARTH...How do I know this? because the rest of the verse says it...neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun... That's planet earth my friend. Thats also why Abraham denied the Rich Mans request.
AS FAR AS THE SOUL IS CONCERNED..JESUS SAID THE FOLLOWING:
LUKE 16:25-26
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
So obviously Jesus doesn't agree with your interpretation of the above verses that you posted. He says that you are wrong.
You still have failed to answer how Jesus is not a Liar if you don't believe Abraham made the above statement.
I
SHROOM2
I SAID: ..."Jesus said Abraham spoke these words!"...
YOU SAID: "Jesus was telling a parable. A story, to make a point."
Interpretation: "Jesus was Lieing"
I SAID: "Soul Sleepers say "Abraham did not speak these words!"
YOU SAID: "Jesus was telling a parable. A story, to make a point."
Interpretation: "As I said, Jesus was Lieing."
I SAID: ..."Jesus said Abraham spoke these words!"...
YOU SAID: "Jesus was telling a parable. A story, to make a point."
Interpretation: "Jesus was Lieing"
I SAID: "Soul Sleepers say "Abraham did not speak these words!"
YOU SAID: "Jesus was telling a parable. A story, to make a point."
Interpretation: "As I said, Jesus was Lieing."
Let takes some baby steps and talk about the life and redemption we have in Christ. When you believed in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and you were saved by grace and received His redemption, where was that life deposited in you and what part of you was redeemed? It can't apply to your body yet, because the body will be redeemed later and we are waiting for that (Rom 8:23). Simply, what part of who we are has God redeemed with the blood of Christ? Is it the spirit or the soul? Just answer that question and we will go from there.
I
SHROOM2
I SAID: "This should end the debate."
YOU SAID: "It won't."
LoL..Oh you better believe that I know that..that's why I said it SHOULD end the debate. As I said before, Im not on this forum to convince guys like you to change your mind, because your religious pride wont allow you to. I post on this thread for those curious browsers who are searching for the truth and I know that can clearly see that you soul sleepers are holding on to a dead doctrine..(pun intended)
I SAID: "This should end the debate."
YOU SAID: "It won't."
LoL..Oh you better believe that I know that..that's why I said it SHOULD end the debate. As I said before, Im not on this forum to convince guys like you to change your mind, because your religious pride wont allow you to. I post on this thread for those curious browsers who are searching for the truth and I know that can clearly see that you soul sleepers are holding on to a dead doctrine..(pun intended)
I
PEACFULBELIEVER
YOU SAID: "Then I am sorry to say Red that you must feel the same about me. I would just like to say that the dead do not know that they are dead and corrupting (for they know nothing) and the years and years that some may lay dead - the next thing that they remember is the resurrection."
How can you continue to justify this statement? When Jesus Himself has shown you that the Souls of men do know something..in fact according to Him they know a lot.
If you believe the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus is not true...then first solve the issue of how Jesus is not a Liar...after that, then move forward with what you discovered.
YOU SAID: "Then I am sorry to say Red that you must feel the same about me. I would just like to say that the dead do not know that they are dead and corrupting (for they know nothing) and the years and years that some may lay dead - the next thing that they remember is the resurrection."
How can you continue to justify this statement? When Jesus Himself has shown you that the Souls of men do know something..in fact according to Him they know a lot.
If you believe the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus is not true...then first solve the issue of how Jesus is not a Liar...after that, then move forward with what you discovered.
Luke 15:
3) And he spake this parable unto them, saying,
4) What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
So, IMINJC, do you believe each of the people Jesus was talking to owned 100 sheep? Or was he lying? Or was he telling a story to make a point?
3) And he spake this parable unto them, saying,
4) What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
So, IMINJC, do you believe each of the people Jesus was talking to owned 100 sheep? Or was he lying? Or was he telling a story to make a point?
The Rich Man and Lazarus is part of a 5 part Parable, about the unprofitable servant, Which in this case
was The scribes and the pharisees and the Religious of His Day. notice the color of the clothing on the rich man, and The name of Lazarus, is eleazar, who was a servant of Abraham, who was a Gentile.
Who was a faithful servant. He told them they would see those coming from the east and the west, north and south and sit down in the kingdom while they themselves cast out.
