Are we sinners?

[Cee]

One day maybe I will tell you about the family members I've lost at an early age, time spent in mental institutions because of fear, losing everything I owned, not having food, the spiritual attacks, being told I was in hell and God didn't love me in my mind over and over, being so legalistic I drove 43 mph so I wouldn't go 45 when I went down hills. My friend you have no idea of my life nor the valleys I have experienced. You don't know the years I've spent toe to toe with the enemy to share some of what I'm saying now. I've dedicated my life to empowering believers to walk in the fullness of what Christ died for them to walk in. If you don't like what I say I understand, but please do not think I have not gone through hell myself. Because it is that fact, that burns in me to bring heaven to this earth as Jesus commanded.

C.

I can see you have parked on the mountintop.

So have I !!!!!

The valleys come when you least expect it.

All I can say is .........they will come.


They are the hammer
We are the lump,that needs the hammer

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

But resurrection REQUIRES A DEATH.

Amen to that! Sometimes a short simple saying like that sums it all up very nicely.

Romans 6:1-136 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God."

 

[Grace777x70]

Perfect scripture!

What prompted Paul to say all that is because he was teaching radical grace which prompted his listenrs to say.."What?..can we just continue in sin?"

He preached the gospel to them and it freaked out their minds. I always loved what this guy says about the gospel..to see if we are preaching the real gospel or not..

Amen to that! Sometimes a short simple saying like that sums it all up very nicely.

Romans 6:1-136 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God."

 

[Cee]

You're right it does require a death. And it starts with agreeing you're not a sinner.

You give up your ability to justify yourself before God. You give up the right to pridefully say that the Word of God does not apply to you. You give up your life. You say okay I will die because I believe in you I will be reborn. You don't look to your experience to determine what the Word says, but you look to the Word to shape your experiences. You look arrogant because you are a believer. You look like you are lifting yourself up when you talk about your relationship with God. You live consumed by the idea that you would know His love more. And experience Him more. You die to the lie that Christ does not live with you fully. You die to the lie that you unworthy to know Him. You die to the lie that there is separation between you and Him. You die to the idea that God isn't always with you. Yes you give up your life. You stop avoiding sin. And you start chasing love. And you thank Him continually because you have died to the lie that He isn't good. There's a lot of things we die to, but the good news is that none of it was ours anyway. Because we are children of light! We are the light of the world! And the light we bear in the world we bring nations and kings to the brightness of our arising! We believe that the promises of God transform the world! We diligently strive to bring Heaven to Earth in all we do! We die to fear, worry, anxiety, lack, and anything else that is not of God or of Heaven! We live as children of God with a good Father who we get to reveal to the world.

C.

 

[Grace777x70]

Well said!

We now are the portals from which heaven in our spirits can pour out of us into a dying and hurt world around us. The life of God in us in Christ becomes manifested outwardly.

It's all in acknowledging our true identity in Christ.

You're right it does require a death. And it starts with agreeing you're not a sinner.

You give up your ability to justify yourself before God. You give up the right to pridefully say that the Word of God does not apply to you. You give up your life. You say okay I will die because I believe in you I will be reborn. You don't look to your experience to determine what the Word says, but you look to the Word to shape your experiences. You look arrogant because you are a believer. You look like you are lifting yourself up when you talk about your relationship with God. You live consumed by the idea that you would know His love more. And experience Him more. You die to the lie that Christ does not live with you fully. You die to the lie that you unworthy to know Him. You die to the lie that there is separation between you and Him. You die to the idea that God isn't always with you. Yes you give up your life. You stop avoiding sin. And you start chasing love. And you thank Him continually because you have died to the lie that He isn't good. There's a lot of things we die to, but the good news is that none of it was ours anyway. Because we are children of light! We are the light of the world! And the light we bear in the world we bring nations and kings to the brightness of our arising! We believe that the promises of God transform the world! We diligently strive to bring Heaven to Earth in all we do! We die to fear, worry, anxiety, lack, and anything else that is not of God or of Heaven! We live as children of God with a good Father who we get to reveal to the world.

C.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

1. You are sinners (he actually says the opposite)
2. You will always sin (he actually says the opposite)
3. You are still being sanctified (he actually says we are justified, sanctified, and glorified)
4. The gospel didn't completely make you new, you're still kinda broken.

1. For I know that good does not live in me, that is, in my flesh. For the willing is present in me, but the doing [of] the good [is] not. Romans 7:18

2. ​My little children, I am writing these [things] to you in order that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous [one], 1 John 2:1

3. For this is the will of God, [even] your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: 1 Thessalonians 4:3

4. Not that I have already received [this], or [have] already been made perfect, but I press on if indeed I may lay hold of [that] for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. Philippians 3:12

 

[Grace777x70]

This is what believers in the grace of our Lord Jesus have to say about "sanctification"..the word itself means = "to be set apart"

We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy....however there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.

God sets apart ( sanctifies )our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person..the real you in your inner man..the new creation in Christ.

Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. ( this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )

Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive )..= done deal

Acts 26:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' ( perfect passive )



Sanctification to our "religious minds" could mean a lot of different things to different people as it depends on the religious beliefs formulated from our backgrounds....like..no smoking..no drinking..no going to church..no reading your bible every day..no praying for an hour each day.....no going to a movie...reading a newspaper...no being a servant of God...no doing "what I don't do.."..etc

 

[Grace777x70]

It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is in us. There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior.

1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."

 

[oldthennew]

One day maybe I will tell you about the family members I've lost at an early age, time spent in mental institutions because of fear, losing everything I owned, not having food, the spiritual attacks, being told I was in hell and God didn't love me in my mind over and over, being so legalistic I drove 43 mph so I wouldn't go 45 when I went down hills. My friend you have no idea of my life nor the valleys I have experienced. You don't know the years I've spent toe to toe with the enemy to share some of what I'm saying now. I've dedicated my life to empowering believers to walk in the fullness of what Christ died for them to walk in. If you don't like what I say I understand, but please do not think I have not gone through hell myself. Because it is that fact, that burns in me to bring heaven to this earth as Jesus commanded.
====================================

for many of us, you must realize that your experiences are nothing new to tell, your words are a
very common occurence that so many have experienced in one form or another, so you are not unique
or brand new in your revelations of life,..but you are appreciated and thought of as a fellow 'happened to'....

we pray that your experiences have helped you to understand the world and its ways and what our
heavenly Father has for you to contribute to the best of your ability.....

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Every single letter by Paul which is written for MATURE believers has prayers for grace to be multiplied! It is GRACE that empowers you to do all the things you mention. Not your "human will". Or were you started by the Spirit to now be perfected by the FLESH? Mature believers don't care about topics other than His love and grace. Tradition says John would come into meetings in the Early Church days and simply sit there and say love one another, just love one another. Please don't diminish grace it is absolutely critical. And it's not just for salvation. Salvation is where it starts. Because once we understand God loves us our ministry begins. Because we are not trying to get acceptance and approval because we know we are His son in whom He is well pleased. Now we can focus on the world and not on our "trials, storms of life, etc." But on theirs!

C.

New Gracers define grace as the absence of human will, any human effort, or requirement.

GOD's grace is simply the passing over of the judgment rightly due us. It will pass away once we are perfected.

How little we hear from them of the things that remain forever, and that really empower us: faith, hope and love.

It's like the law keepers always focusing on the law of Moses.

 

[Euphemia]

New Gracers define grace as the absence of human will, any human effort or requirement.

LOL! What is new about God's great grace? There is no new definition. I think your fear of grace is causing this huge disparity between you and so many Christians who walk in God's grace as we are all called to do.

 

[Cee]

1. Romans 7 is written so Jews would understand their need for a Savior, he's writing as a man under the law, which is why in Romans 8 it says "therefore"...

2. IF not When... I am teaching, if, others are teaching when...

3. Yes the will of God that is manifesting what He already did. We are sanctified. The will of God is our sanctification. We are being conformed into His Image, but this is not something we are not, but something we are! You don't align people to the truth by calling them sinners, which is why Paul called them saints because they are!

4. Yes Paul had not yet had his mind renewed to who he truly was in Christ. That's why he says in the next verse, to lay ahold of what Christ already laid ahold of for him! Like I said it's already done. Believe it. Receive it. And you'll see it.

C.

1. For I know that good does not live in me, that is, in my flesh. For the willing is present in me, but the doing [of] the good [is] not. Romans 7:18

2. ​My little children, I am writing these [things] to you in order that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous [one], 1 John 2:1

3. For this is the will of God, [even] your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: 1 Thessalonians 4:3

4. Not that I have already received [this], or [have] already been made perfect, but I press on if indeed I may lay hold of [that] for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. Philippians 3:12

 

[Cee]

Thank you I am not saying I am unique, but I am saying I have experienced my own trials and valleys. And with them I have hard won revelation of who Christ is. So yes, God has used it for good, and I believe He is continually doing this. Thank you for your reply! Bless you!

C.

One day maybe I will tell you about the family members I've lost at an early age, time spent in mental institutions because of fear, losing everything I owned, not having food, the spiritual attacks, being told I was in hell and God didn't love me in my mind over and over, being so legalistic I drove 43 mph so I wouldn't go 45 when I went down hills. My friend you have no idea of my life nor the valleys I have experienced. You don't know the years I've spent toe to toe with the enemy to share some of what I'm saying now. I've dedicated my life to empowering believers to walk in the fullness of what Christ died for them to walk in. If you don't like what I say I understand, but please do not think I have not gone through hell myself. Because it is that fact, that burns in me to bring heaven to this earth as Jesus commanded.
====================================

for many of us, you must realize that your experiences are nothing new to tell, your words are a
very common occurence that so many have experienced in one form or another, so you are not unique
or brand new in your revelations of life,..but you are appreciated and thought of as a fellow 'happened to'....

we pray that your experiences have helped you to understand the world and its ways and what our
heavenly Father has for you to contribute to the best of your ability.....

 

[Grace777x70]

This may "appear" to be the case but in reality we are still in the process of getting over the hurtle of getting some people to believe in 'acceptance " grace....this is a major stumbling block for the D.I.Y. self-effort holiness/righteousness crowd.

We really don't have a chance to have a normal discussion about how this grace impacts our lives in the Lord. We are constantly telling people what we really believe as opposed to what is constantly being said... it does not seem to make any difference how many times we say.."Grace does not mean you can sin all you want"

Believers in grace are constantly being accused of saying things that have not been said..so either someone is not being honest or they simply cannot "hear" what is being said.

So, there is no foundation being built on Christ and in His finished work.

New Gracers define grace as the absence of human will, any human effort or requirement.

GOD's grace is simply the passing over of the judgment rightly due us. It will pass away once we are perfected.

How little we hear from them of the things that remain forever, and that really empower us: faith, hope and love.

It's like the law keepers always focusing on the law of Moses.

 

[Cee]

How many Scriptures would you like to see concerning God's grace? It has absolutely nothing to do with us. Our part is the effect of His grace. And you just keep on generalizing with your comments. This is not building up of the saints. Have you read 1 Co 14? Check it out. And follow it.

And the Scripture you are referring to is that love remains. And I am a huge believer in grace. And you can go through my posts and see how often I do talk about love. And how little you have. Your only comment on love that I've seen was ridiculing other peoples.

C.

New Gracers define grace as the absence of human will, any human effort, or requirement.

GOD's grace is simply the passing over of the judgment rightly due us. It will pass away once we are perfected.

How little we hear from them of the things that remain forever, and that really empower us: faith, hope and love.

It's like the law keepers always focusing on the law of Moses.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

LOL! What is new about God's great grace? There is no new definition. I think your fear of grace is causing this huge disparity between you and so many Christians who walk in God's grace as we are all called to do.

As a sinful being, how could I possibly be afraid of grace that passes over the judgment due me? I'm grateful.

Pseudo-Grace, however, is something everyone should be wary of being seduced by.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

1. Romans 7 is written so Jews would understand their need for a Savior, he's writing as a man under the law, which is why in Romans 8 it says "therefore"...

2. IF not When... I am teaching, if, others are teaching when...

3. Yes the will of God that is manifesting what He already did. We are sanctified. The will of God is our sanctification. We are being conformed into His Image, but this is not something we are not, but something we are! You don't align people to the truth by calling them sinners, which is why Paul called them saints because they are!

4. Yes Paul had not yet had his mind renewed to who he truly was in Christ. That's why he says in the next verse, to lay ahold of what Christ already laid ahold of for him! Like I said it's already done. Believe it. Receive it. And you'll see it.

C.

1. Rationalization.
2. We can sin is what we need to be aware of.
3. Abiding in our sanctification that we have received requires out effort, as my verse witnessed. Abstention requires an act of man's will.
4. I'm glad you said this. Neo-gnosticism at its finest. We know, Paul didn't.

 

[Cee]

If you think Paul is saying he is stuck in sin, then he is going against everything he taught in Romans 6 and 8.

Yes we CAN say, but we don't HAVE to sin. That's the point.

Actually it doesn't. It's explaining what the will of God is for our lives. Yes the behavior needs to line up to the identity. The point is that we are sanctified there's at least 4-5 verses that say flat out you're sanctified.

And you can add this to your neo-gnosticism: For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

Because you're right Paul didn't know. And neither do I. We are growing in our understanding.

C.

1. Rationalization.
2. We can sin is what we need to be aware of.
3. Abiding in our sanctification that we have received requires out effort, as my verse witnessed. Abstention requires an act of man's will.
4. I'm glad you said this. Neo-gnosticism at its finest. We know, Paul didn't.

 

[Grace777x70]

Once you show the scriptures that clearly show the grace of our Lord and our complete dependence is on Him and Him only..they still reject it..

The grace-hating or grace-fearing spirit will always attack personally the person that is preaching the pure grace of Christ. It is the nature of the beast.

Paul even talks about how those that live from the works of self-effort and the flesh will attack those that are living and preaching from the promise....the Spirit of grace.

Galatians 4:28-29 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

How many Scriptures would you like to see concerning God's grace? It has absolutely nothing to do with us. Our part is the effect of His grace. And you just keep on generalizing with your comments. This is not building up of the saints. Have you read 1 Co 14? Check it out. And follow it.

And the Scripture you are referring to is that love remains. And I am a huge believer in grace. And you can go through my posts and see how often I do talk about love. And how little you have. Your only comment on love that I've seen was ridiculing other peoples.

C.

Throwing a bunch of scripture verses up against the wall won't accomplish anything but make you think that you've accomplished something.

I am exposing neo-gnostic error in the church. I don't feel like digging up the verse to show you that I am warranted to do so.

1 Corinthians 13:13 actually says that all three remain, with the greatest being love. Strange that grace isn't mentioned therein. The gnostics of Irenaeus day thought that grace was their special possession forever, and ridiculed Christians for thinking that grace was a means to perfection. I bet you think Christ is grace personified.