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K

kaylagrl

Guest
#81
#81
Theologian101 said:
I thank everyone for their words and council, and I forgive those who made snide or judgmental comments. My opening statement was very bold, perhaps too much so. I still hold to the logic that actions make the man, and that there is beingness in actions. I have learned that I may not be Christian. When I heard the voice of God, he gave me two commands: to be kind, to be gentle. I will follow the parts of the Bible that make my heart swell with joy and the presence of the holy spirit. And I will ignore any words that does not flow from UNCONDITIONAL love. Be well beautiful souls.
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I am sorry to hear that. I hope you keep a teachable spirit and that one day you may become a Christian. I hope you don't give up. Stay open to that voice and if it is the right voice He will lead to learn of the God of the OT. You will learn that God can be both the perfect judge and the God of unconditional love. Otherwise,you are listening to the wrong voice.I wish you the best.Be blessed.


p.s. If you are a reader I highly recommend a book called "The Case for Faith" by Lee Strobel. It answers some of the hard questions you seem to be getting stuck on.
 
Limey410v2

Limey410v2

Senior Member
#83
Jul 2, 2017
416
77
28
#83
Theologian101 said:
He is God he is the son of God. Didn't he call himself the son of man on occasion... My logical argument was that when your reading old testament (Jewish Bible) you in that moment being a jew.
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Does reading vogue mean I am a model?
 
Bogadile

Bogadile

Banned
#86
May 11, 2014
936
39
0
#86
What you believe sounds like gnosticism. It is one of the biggest heresies christians had to deal with in the past. It is very quickly refuted even within John's epistles. Verses like "He who denies Jesus has come in the flesh is an antichrist" is a direct refutation of gnosticism, who did not believe Jesus came in the flesh but was merely a spirit being floating around.

As others have already pointed out, Jesus quoted the Old Testament quite often, made references to the God of Israel on numerous occasions, was a Jew Himself and all of His disciples were Jews too. And this is all in the gospels, once you get into the book of acts and the epistles they quote the OT regularly and Paul says he is the hebrew of hebrews.

I think it is safe to say this impeccable logic has been DEBUNKED.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#87
#87
Theologian101 said:
Thanks lomeme1 I am quite overwhelmed by all the dialogue. Not sure what I can say, I am farely new Christian. My heart sores when I read Jesus quotes like love they neighbour, what you do unto the least you do unto me, kingdom of heaven lies within etc
But my stomach twist and my heart falls when I hear the violent words of the OT or even any from the NT.
What can I say, I can only go by my heart. I minored in philosophy at University so I have a rational brain. I think CS Lewis said it best "no evil can be done in Aslans (Christ's) name and no good can be done in 'the enemies' name. I will not except stoning, sending Angels to kill, or any violence to be done in God's name. If that means I am at odds with the Bible then I will trust my heart and my favourite Jesus quotes. For are we to love thy neighbour or not!?
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If you don't like God, why follow him?

AND, if you still believe you must follow your heart, exactly when, how, why did bother seeking him?

When we realize we have no where else to go, there is God.
When we realize how utterly depraved we are, there is God.
When every thing we do comes out wrong, there is God.
When we know nothing good dwells in us, there is God.

And yet, here you are boasting of your "impeccable logic," that you "have a rational mind," you're superior standards compared to God, and you trust your heart.

So. Again I ask, what makes you think you are a Christian? And now... what love?

Frankly, you're very haughty for someone who had a minor in philosophy and still thinks he knows it all better than God.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#88
#88
Theologian101 said:
I thank everyone for their words and council, and I forgive those who made snide or judgmental comments. My opening statement was very bold, perhaps too much so. I still hold to the logic that actions make the man, and that there is beingness in actions. I have learned that I may not be Christian. When I heard the voice of God, he gave me two commands: to be kind, to be gentle. I will follow the parts of the Bible that make my heart swell with joy and the presence of the holy spirit. And I will ignore any words that does not flow from UNCONDITIONAL love. Be well beautiful souls.
Click to expand...
Then ignore Jesus' words too, because there was heavy condition to them. He was stripped of all he had, tortured and killed on a cross for us.

You come at him as if he is a tadpole at a pond there for you to poke at. No love. Just superiority.

You really do need Jesus.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#90
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
#90
I am sure this has been said, so if it has......

In Christ there is NEITHER JEW nor GENTILE............the two have been made one......

Either one is saved in Christ or Lost......both Jew and or Gentile are a New Creation in Christ Jesus.
 
O

oldethennew

Banned
#91
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
113
#91
Depleted said:
In Other Words
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===========================================

tanks, Dep, I was a little embarrassed to ask! :rolleyes:

we're not real 'techy', although this makes me feel kind of dumb', :eek:
never even asked hub what he thought, he, more than likely would have
figerd it out real quick!...he really is soooooo:cool::)
 
Laish

Laish

Senior Member
#95
Jul 31, 2016
1,666
449
83
58
#95
Locutus said:
That's not right, children should always be lightly sauteed and served with mint sauce.
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Then what about fava beans and a nice Chianti ? Or is that only for adults ?
Blessings
Bill
 
O

oldethennew

Banned
#96
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
113
#96
somebody- 's knows something up in here, that's going-on.......well, some things will never change,
we have to accept this -

but, when our Heavenly Father puts His hands upon us, and allows us to see/feel?,
it becomes a done deal...
 
Laish

Laish

Senior Member
#97
Jul 31, 2016
1,666
449
83
58
#97
Theologian101 said:
Greetings beautiful people! I have a delema that pains my heart...
I am a Christian because I follow the words of Christ. The Old Testament has no place in my life.
The first testament describes a vengeful God, (a God that would kill children) a God that is definitely not the God described by Christ.
So it makes me sad when my friends or even my Pastor quotes from the Old Testament, as I feel they are straying from Christ's teaching. I understand through impeccable Logic, that a Christian should only read the words of Christ. Because when an individual, be them Christian or not, reads or speaks the old testament at that moment they are being Jewish. The Old Testament is the Jewish Bible when you speak it your being Jewish, full stop, logical and rational fact. I am definitely not anti-Semitic as I follow Christ's words and I love my neighbour.
Can anyone provide me with a logical and rational argument that refutes my argument. Furthermore, let's pick any contentious issue: let's say gays or gay marriage. Did Christ say anything against gays? If not, and you quote Leviticus, then in quoting and believing Leviticus, you are being a Jew not being Christian.
I have used this example because it is so volitile, not because I approve personal of homosexuality. But as a True Christian I should have no issue with homosexuality. Please only rational replies, I actually want to be proved wrong, but fact is fact.
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Hello Theologian101
you first said that you follow the words of Christ. Your followed that with the statement that the OT has no place in your life .
That places you diametrically opposed to Jesus Christ. The OT was a part of His life and teaching. Jesus read ,quoted,and referred to the OT . Below is a short list . It is not comprehensive but it gets to the point .
Recorded References that Jesus made to the Old Testament:
*Parenthesis are the parallel references to that particular quote in the other books of the New Testament
*Bold are the repeated Old Testament references from Jesus
*Italic is for Isaiah 29:13 which parallels the same theme as Hosea 6:6
Matthew:
4:4 Deut 8:3 (Luke 4:4)
4:7 Deut 6:16 (Luke 4:12)
4:10 Duet 6:13 (Luke 4:8)
5:21 Exodus 20:13
5:27 Exodus 20:14
5:31 Deut 24:1
5:38 Exodus 21:24, Lev 24:20, Deut 19:21
5:43 Lev 19:18
9:13 Hosea 6:6
10:36 Micah 7:6
11:10 Mal 3:1 (Luke 7:27)
12:7 Hosea 6:6
13:15 Isaiah 6:9-10 (Mark 4:12) (Luke 8:10 v9)
15:4 Exodus 20:12, Deut 5:16 (Mark 7:10)
15:4 Exodus 21:17, Lev 20:9 (Mark 7:10)
15:9 Isaiah 29:13 (Mark 7:7)
18:16 Deut 19:15
19:4 Gen 1:27 (Mark 10:6)
19:5 Gen 2:24 (Mark 10:8)
19:19 Exodus 20:12-16, Deut 5:16-20 (Mark 10:19) (Luke 18:20)
21:13 Isaiah 56:7 (Mark 11:17) (Luke 19:46)
21:13 Jer 7:11 (Mark 11:17) (Luke 19:46)
21:16 Psalm 8:2
22:42 Psalm 118:22-23 (Mark 12:11) (Luke 20:17)
22:32 Exodus 3:6 (Mark 12:26) (Luke 20:37)
22:37 Deut 6:5 (v 4-5 Mark) (Mark 12:30)
22:39: Lev 19:18 (Mark 12:31)
22:44 Psalm 110:1 (Mark 12:36) (Luke 20:43)
23:39 Psalm 118:26 (Luke 13:35)
24:15 Daniel 9:27, 11:31, 12:11 (Mark 13:14)
24:29 Isaiah 13:10, 34:4 (Mark 13:24)
26:31 Zech 13:7 (Mark 14:27)
27:46 Psalm 22:1 (Mark 15:34)
Mark:
9:48 Isaiah 66:24
Luke:
4:18-19 Isaiah 61:1-2
22:37 Isaiah 53:12
23:30 Hosea 10:8
John:
6:45 Isaiah 54:13
10:34 Psalm 82:6
13:18 Psalm 41:9
15:25 Psalm 35:19
Revelation:
2:27 Psalm 2:9
 You you have a very poor understanding of the OT . God showed grace from the very start . After the fall Adam and Eve both deserved death. What did He do ? He clothed them . He gave them animal shins to wear. It was a shedding of blood that one could see as to pointing to the cross .God shows mercy and grace through out the OT . You seem to be ignorant of the very book that points to Christ and identifies Him as the Son of God . When ignoring the OT you must also ignore Christ
Himself. How are you to know that He is the Christ? Where do you find out who He is ?

Now further down in your first post you mentioned homosexuality. you said "let's say gays or gay marriage. Did Christ say anything against gays? If not, and you quote Leviticus, then in quoting and believing Leviticus, you are being a Jew not being Christian."
What about beastiality, incest ? Are they permitted nothing in red ,in my red letter Bible about those subjects .
Ok just a question without referring to the OT. Can you answer me a question if you don't know Christ what happens when you die ? What is sin ?
Blessings
Bill
 
Last edited:
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#99
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
#99
Laish said:
Hello Theologian101
you first said that you follow the words of Christ. Your followed that with the statement that the OT has no place in your life .
That places you diametrically opposed to Jesus Christ. The OT was a part of His life and teaching. Jesus read ,quoted,and referred to the OT . Below is a short list . It is not comprehensive but it gets to the point .
Recorded References that Jesus made to the Old Testament:
*Parenthesis are the parallel references to that particular quote in the other books of the New Testament
*Bold are the repeated Old Testament references from Jesus
*Italic is for Isaiah 29:13 which parallels the same theme as Hosea 6:6
Matthew:
4:4 Deut 8:3 (Luke 4:4)
4:7 Deut 6:16 (Luke 4:12)
4:10 Duet 6:13 (Luke 4:8)
5:21 Exodus 20:13
5:27 Exodus 20:14
5:31 Deut 24:1
5:38 Exodus 21:24, Lev 24:20, Deut 19:21
5:43 Lev 19:18
9:13 Hosea 6:6
10:36 Micah 7:6
11:10 Mal 3:1 (Luke 7:27)
12:7 Hosea 6:6
13:15 Isaiah 6:9-10 (Mark 4:12) (Luke 8:10 v9)
15:4 Exodus 20:12, Deut 5:16 (Mark 7:10)
15:4 Exodus 21:17, Lev 20:9 (Mark 7:10)
15:9 Isaiah 29:13 (Mark 7:7)
18:16 Deut 19:15
19:4 Gen 1:27 (Mark 10:6)
19:5 Gen 2:24 (Mark 10:8)
19:19 Exodus 20:12-16, Deut 5:16-20 (Mark 10:19) (Luke 18:20)
21:13 Isaiah 56:7 (Mark 11:17) (Luke 19:46)
21:13 Jer 7:11 (Mark 11:17) (Luke 19:46)
21:16 Psalm 8:2
22:42 Psalm 118:22-23 (Mark 12:11) (Luke 20:17)
22:32 Exodus 3:6 (Mark 12:26) (Luke 20:37)
22:37 Deut 6:5 (v 4-5 Mark) (Mark 12:30)
22:39: Lev 19:18 (Mark 12:31)
22:44 Psalm 110:1 (Mark 12:36) (Luke 20:43)
23:39 Psalm 118:26 (Luke 13:35)
24:15 Daniel 9:27, 11:31, 12:11 (Mark 13:14)
24:29 Isaiah 13:10, 34:4 (Mark 13:24)
26:31 Zech 13:7 (Mark 14:27)
27:46 Psalm 22:1 (Mark 15:34)
Mark:
9:48 Isaiah 66:24
Luke:
4:18-19 Isaiah 61:1-2
22:37 Isaiah 53:12
23:30 Hosea 10:8
John:
6:45 Isaiah 54:13
10:34 Psalm 82:6
13:18 Psalm 41:9
15:25 Psalm 35:19
Revelation:
2:27 Psalm 2:9
 You you have a very poor understanding of the OT . God showed grace from the very start . After the fall Adam and Eve both deserved death. What did He do ? He clothed them . He gave them animal shins to wear. It was a shedding of blood that one could see as to pointing to the cross .God shows mercy and grace through out the OT . You seem to be ignorant of the very book that points to Christ and identifies Him as the Son of God . When ignoring the OT you must also ignore Christ
Himself. How are you to know that He is the Christ? Where do you find out who He is ?

Now further down in your first post you mentioned homosexuality. you said "let's say gays or gay marriage. Did Christ say anything against gays? If not, and you quote Leviticus, then in quoting and believing Leviticus, you are being a Jew not being Christian."
What about beastiality, incest ? Are they permitted nothing in red ,in my red letter Bible about those subjects .
Ok just a question without referring to the OT. Can you answer me a question if you don't know Christ what happens when you die ? What is sin ?
Blessings
Bill
Click to expand...
AMEN.....Jesus said, "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me"

The N.T. had not yet been written..... his reference is to the O.T.
 
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