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Have you read Genesis 18:17-32? This passage goes against your belief that God in the Old Testament is a veangeful God. Here God was getting ready to destroy the city of Sodom and Gomorrah because of their wickedness and God tells Abraham what he is thinking to due. Abraham intercedes for the cities asking God will he destroy the cities if there were fifty righteous people in it, then forty five, then forty and going down all the way down to ten. And God said he would spare both cities for the sake of ten righteous people. The New Testament also speaks against homosexuality going as far to say that they who practice it will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.( see 1 Corinthians 6:9-10). Jesus was also Jew and observed the Passover with his disciples. Jesus also quoted from the Old Testament. Both the Old Testament and the New Testament are for the Jewish people. Paul was a Jew and the New Testament is composed of much of his writings.
T
Thanks lomeme1 I am quite overwhelmed by all the dialogue. Not sure what I can say, I am farely new Christian. My heart sores when I read Jesus quotes like love they neighbour, what you do unto the least you do unto me, kingdom of heaven lies within etc
But my stomach twist and my heart falls when I hear the violent words of the OT or even any from the NT.
What can I say, I can only go by my heart. I minored in philosophy at University so I have a rational brain. I think CS Lewis said it best "no evil can be done in Aslans (Christ's) name and no good can be done in 'the enemies' name. I will not except stoning, sending Angels to kill, or any violence to be done in God's name. If that means I am at odds with the Bible then I will trust my heart and my favourite Jesus quotes. For are we to love thy neighbour or not!?
But my stomach twist and my heart falls when I hear the violent words of the OT or even any from the NT.
What can I say, I can only go by my heart. I minored in philosophy at University so I have a rational brain. I think CS Lewis said it best "no evil can be done in Aslans (Christ's) name and no good can be done in 'the enemies' name. I will not except stoning, sending Angels to kill, or any violence to be done in God's name. If that means I am at odds with the Bible then I will trust my heart and my favourite Jesus quotes. For are we to love thy neighbour or not!?
K
A few points I'd like to make,and Im not doing this with any other intent but to point out some things you may not have thought of.
1) You say the OT has no place in your life but without the OT you have no need for the New. You have no Jesus,and assuming you are a Gentile,you have no salvation. Jesus came to the Jews first and they rejected Him therefore we Gentiles can be saved.That was Gods plan. Gods plan of redemption for man began in the OT and carries through the New.
2) The OT describes a just God,the God you and I will face at the end. I do not know where in particular you are talking about killing children,maybe you can elaborate. But God is a just God and Jesus and God are One.So,try as you will,you cannot separate them.
3) Jesus was a Jew,Mary and Joseph were Jews,the disciples were Jews. The first Christians were Jews.Salvation comes from the Jews. Now we understand that there are things that are in the belief of Judaism that we Christians do not follow because we know the Messiah has come.But one day a remnant of Jews will be saved.
4) Jesus did not restate the OT. If it was wrong in the OT to be gay its wrong in the new.Jesus agrees with the Father and does the will of His Father. The NT also says homosexuality is wrong.
5) You are right,fact is fact. The OT and NT go hand in glove. Our need of a Savior begins in the Garden of Eden. The Messiah is prophesied about in the OT, His death and resurrection also spoken about in the OT. You cannot have the NT without the OT. I hope what I said makes sense.
T
I said read quotes once and speak the quotes 3 times, obviously I am saying that repeating the quotes (which implies belief) means your being a Muslim if you're present and projecting words of the Koran. Even if you're generally an atheist. So my logic holds, it may not be impeccable as it is being pecked lol
When I play golf I am being a golfer, even if it's my first game ever
When I play golf I am being a golfer, even if it's my first game ever
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Jesus didn't come to a lawless people. He came first to the children of whose Father's Had heard Jesus thunder down from heaven the ten commandments. But because you reject so much of the scripture, you probably wouldn't agree that was Jesus who created all things and commanded Moses (1Co 10:4) before Jesus was manifested in the flesh.
Deu 4:32-36
(32) For ask now of the days that are past, which were before thee, since the day that God created man upon the earth, and ask from the one side of heaven unto the other, whether there hath been any such thing as this great thing is, or hath been heard like it?
(33) Did ever people hear the voice of God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as thou hast heard, and live?
(34) Or hath God assayed to go and take him a nation from the midst of another nation, by temptations, by signs, and by wonders, and by war, and by a mighty hand, and by a stretched out arm, and by great terrors, according to all that the LORD your God did for you in Egypt before your eyes?
(35) Unto thee it was shewed, that thou might know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.
(36) Out of heaven he made you to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee his great fire; and you heard his words out of the midst of the fire.
1Co 10:1-4
(1) Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
(2) And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
(3) And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
(4) And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Now Paul, Who was specifically commanded by Jesus Christ to go and teach His Gospel to the nations, has to put them of Corinth back in remembrance (even as many in this post are seeking to do with you) of the scriptures admonishing them to not be ignorant of God's leading and working with their fathers.
1Co 10:5-12
(5) But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
(6) Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
(7) Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
(8) Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed [There goes your Homosexuality out the window and into the Lake of Fire,in due time], and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
(9) Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
(10) Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
(11) Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
(12) Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
As long as you reject the Holy Scriptures that God gave it's only reasonable for me to think you will always struggle to reconcile true love. Because God gave us The Word of God in His Great Love. In a dark sin-laden world, Love requires Judgment, and in cases of stubborn rebellion against the will of the Creator God, extreme judgment! This is the whole point of why faith in Jesus is the Central Requirement for anyone to be reconciled unto a Holy God.
Rev 19:11-13
(11) And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
(12) His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
(13) And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
No matter how you slice it, in order for true love to remain in existence there must be vengeful force enacted appropriately to put to silence and destroy the works of the devil (which are lustful desires and they are not in accord with the love of God). Jesus taught commandments whereby we can understand what love he requires a man show to God and to his neighbor.
Mat 19:16-19
(16) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
(17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
(18) He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
(19) Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Deu 4:32-36
(32) For ask now of the days that are past, which were before thee, since the day that God created man upon the earth, and ask from the one side of heaven unto the other, whether there hath been any such thing as this great thing is, or hath been heard like it?
(33) Did ever people hear the voice of God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as thou hast heard, and live?
(34) Or hath God assayed to go and take him a nation from the midst of another nation, by temptations, by signs, and by wonders, and by war, and by a mighty hand, and by a stretched out arm, and by great terrors, according to all that the LORD your God did for you in Egypt before your eyes?
(35) Unto thee it was shewed, that thou might know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.
(36) Out of heaven he made you to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee his great fire; and you heard his words out of the midst of the fire.
1Co 10:1-4
(1) Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
(2) And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
(3) And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
(4) And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Now Paul, Who was specifically commanded by Jesus Christ to go and teach His Gospel to the nations, has to put them of Corinth back in remembrance (even as many in this post are seeking to do with you) of the scriptures admonishing them to not be ignorant of God's leading and working with their fathers.
1Co 10:5-12
(5) But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
(6) Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
(7) Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
(8) Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed [There goes your Homosexuality out the window and into the Lake of Fire,in due time], and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
(9) Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
(10) Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
(11) Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
(12) Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
As long as you reject the Holy Scriptures that God gave it's only reasonable for me to think you will always struggle to reconcile true love. Because God gave us The Word of God in His Great Love. In a dark sin-laden world, Love requires Judgment, and in cases of stubborn rebellion against the will of the Creator God, extreme judgment! This is the whole point of why faith in Jesus is the Central Requirement for anyone to be reconciled unto a Holy God.
Rev 19:11-13
(11) And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
(12) His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
(13) And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
No matter how you slice it, in order for true love to remain in existence there must be vengeful force enacted appropriately to put to silence and destroy the works of the devil (which are lustful desires and they are not in accord with the love of God). Jesus taught commandments whereby we can understand what love he requires a man show to God and to his neighbor.
Mat 19:16-19
(16) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
(17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
(18) He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
(19) Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Jesus was/is a jew. He is/was a rabbi, in fact He was a very special kind of rabbi who was able to interpret scripture. Jesus is, was and always will be God. When He walked the earth He was here for the lost tribe of israel only.
[h=1]Matthew 15:22-26King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT="]22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.[/FONT]
[FONT="]23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.[/FONT]
[FONT="]24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.[/FONT]
[FONT="]25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.[/FONT]
[FONT="]26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
Once Jesus went to the cross and rose again He gave paul His gospel for all of us.
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Without properly dividing the Word we can not understand it. Pray before you read the Word and try to read more than just the gospels.
[/FONT]
[h=1]Matthew 15:22-26King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT="]22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.[/FONT]
[FONT="]23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.[/FONT]
[FONT="]24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.[/FONT]
[FONT="]25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.[/FONT]
[FONT="]26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
Once Jesus went to the cross and rose again He gave paul His gospel for all of us.
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Without properly dividing the Word we can not understand it. Pray before you read the Word and try to read more than just the gospels.
[/FONT]
T
I thank everyone for their words and council, and I forgive those who made snide or judgmental comments. My opening statement was very bold, perhaps too much so. I still hold to the logic that actions make the man, and that there is beingness in actions. I have learned that I may not be Christian. When I heard the voice of God, he gave me two commands: to be kind, to be gentle. I will follow the parts of the Bible that make my heart swell with joy and the presence of the holy spirit. And I will ignore any words that does not flow from UNCONDITIONAL love. Be well beautiful souls.
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Being a Christian is all about having faith in Jesus as God incarnate and that he died for our sins and rose again by the power of God. Have you believed on Jesus, trusted him for salvation and asked him to save you? Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart God raised him from the dead you will be saved. Have you confessed with your mouth Jesus is Lord or have called Jesus Lord with your mouth?
