Are you completely Born again????

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Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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This is what i am trying to...baptism is the product of believing...
Like abraham when he offered isaac..then the scriptures said abraham believed...
Even Jesus said...
Mar 16:16 KJV He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Believed and baptize is inseparable in salvation...
Those who believe not abviously are not baptize...
Our belief in Christ that he saves us...like abraham obey God when he offered Isaac...we obey him in baptism..burief with him...
Well this I can agree with. I have no disagreement at all with saying that baptism is a result of true salvation, as you said, "a product of",
but then you carry it too far when you say "Believed and baptize is inseparable in salvation..", no now you're suggesting that I have to be baptized to be saved, to that I can not disagree with more strongly. I will tell you that from what I read in His word, and even more (for me), what I've experienced if you are saved you will be baptized, but you see what I';m saying here, and honestly you say the same thing until the point you decide to make the leap that you have to be baptized to be saved. No just no, no scripture supports that, you have to construct your own from taking "this" from here and putting it with "that" from there to make it fit what you're saying when neither "this" nor "that" says it alone.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
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Well this I can agree with. I have no disagreement at all with saying that baptism is a result of true salvation, as you said, "a product of",
but then you carry it too far when you say "Believed and baptize is inseparable in salvation..", no now you're suggesting that I have to be baptized to be saved, to that I can not disagree with more strongly. I will tell you that from what I read in His word, and even more (for me), what I've experienced if you are saved you will be baptized, but you see what I';m saying here, and honestly you say the same thing until the point you decide to make the leap that you have to be baptized to be saved. No just no, no scripture supports that, you have to construct your own from taking "this" from here and putting it with "that" from there to make it fit what you're saying when neither "this" nor "that" says it alone.
Abraham when God told him to leave his family...did the scriptures said he believed?
All through his life often talked to God, did the scriptures said he believed...
His belief was counted when he's in the act of offering isaac...

Even the devil believed and tremble...

Many think that baptism is to show the world...but its not...its to show God you believed...
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
15,783
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Well this I can agree with. I have no disagreement at all with saying that baptism is a result of true salvation, as you said, "a product of",
but then you carry it too far when you say "Believed and baptize is inseparable in salvation..", no now you're suggesting that I have to be baptized to be saved, to that I can not disagree with more strongly. I will tell you that from what I read in His word, and even more (for me), what I've experienced if you are saved you will be baptized, but you see what I';m saying here, and honestly you say the same thing until the point you decide to make the leap that you have to be baptized to be saved. No just no, no scripture supports that, you have to construct your own from taking "this" from here and putting it with "that" from there to make it fit what you're saying when neither "this" nor "that" says it alone.

Baptism is the unseen work of salvation God pouring out His spirt as if it was water .It is not a self edifying work we perform . The witness of God is inward not what the eyes see.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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Baptism is the unseen work of salvation God pouring out His spirt as if it was water .It is not a self edifying work we perform . The witness of God is inward not what the eyes see.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us


I agree as far as being baptized in His Spirit when we are regenerated and our dead spirits brought to life and reconnected with His Spirit, as we were created to be. That is being saved praise Jesus mighty name, and I testify this happen to me without being dunked under water first. That matches what you're saying. This is not what he is saying. he is saying that the physical outward act of being baptized is necessary to be saved, and I say that "THAT" is not true. As far as "It is not a self edifying work we perform", again I couldn't agree more, ALL salvation is a gift from God, He does it ALL. Holla-boo-ya:D

I am not sure if you were agreeing with me or trying to correct me, but I honestly don't know how I can be more clear with the point I'm making, and his point that I'm disagreeing with. Thank you for the comment and have a nice day. :)
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
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I agree as far as being baptized in His Spirit when we are regenerated and our dead spirits brought to life and reconnected with His Spirit, as we were created to be. That is being saved praise Jesus mighty name, and I testify this happen to me without being dunked under water first. That matches what you're saying. This is not what he is saying. he is saying that the physical outward act of being baptized is necessary to be saved, and I say that "THAT" is not true. As far as "It is not a self edifying work we perform", again I couldn't agree more, ALL salvation is a gift from God, He does it ALL. Holla-boo-ya:D

I am not sure if you were agreeing with me or trying to correct me, but I honestly don't know how I can be more clear with the point I'm making, and his point that I'm disagreeing with. Thank you for the comment and have a nice day. :)
Are all saved? No...
Why you say you are saved? because you did something that they didn't?
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,872
1,722
113
Texas
You are either born again or you are not. There is no partially born again any more than there is partially physically born.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
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You are either born again or you are not. There is no partially born again any more than there is partially physically born.
Like birth it began at conception and end at physical birth.
Born again..begins at baptism and end at the resurrection (birth of spiritual body) 1 cor 15
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,872
1,722
113
Texas
Baptism is exactly as explained in Romans chapter 6.
And it does not say outward show of inward change, nir does it even imply such.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
15,783
1,502
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I agree as far as being baptized in His Spirit when we are regenerated and our dead spirits brought to life and reconnected with His Spirit, as we were created to be. That is being saved praise Jesus mighty name, and I testify this happen to me without being dunked under water first. That matches what you're saying. This is not what he is saying. he is saying that the physical outward act of being baptized is necessary to be saved, and I say that "THAT" is not true. As far as "It is not a self edifying work we perform", again I couldn't agree more, ALL salvation is a gift from God, He does it ALL. Holla-boo-ya:D

I am not sure if you were agreeing with me or trying to correct me, but I honestly don't know how I can be more clear with the point I'm making, and his point that I'm disagreeing with. Thank you for the comment and have a nice day. :)
Sorry I was trying to agree.

No such thing as "sign gift" or "self edifying gift" . Spiritual gift not seen, yes. Signs are for those who rebel. Prophecy God's word for those who do believe

Matthew 12:34 O "generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Vipers. False prophets that bring false prophecy as oral traditions of men called a law of the fathers. they seek after a sign . They said to Jesus show us a miracle in when we see it then we will believe. He refused to act as a circus seal to natural unconverted mankind.

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, "An evil and adulterous generation" seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,919
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No such thing as "sign gift" or "self edifying gift" . Spiritual gift not seen, yes. Signs are for those who rebel.
Often-refuted garbage. Your stubbornness is amazing.
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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Are all saved? No...
Why you say you are saved? because you did something that they didn't?
Nope!!! Because He did something. What's wrong? Are you hearing things that you're not familiar with? You tell me that we have to be physically dunked under water to be saved then turn around and out of the other side of your mouth, you hypocritically ask me "Why you say you are saved? because you did something that they didn't?", really?, your selling works salvation here without even realizing it then pointing your finger at me as if I've been saying anything but "It's ALL God" this entire time.

What's wrong with you man? Why are you stuck on this? Why won't you even address my question about my FO SHOW being saved without baptism? I keep asking and you answer everything but that. What's the deal here man? Because you just seem to be pushing your view, not seeking truth at all. What's your purpose here? Do you even know?
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
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Nope!!! Because He did something. What's wrong? Are you hearing things that you're not familiar with? You tell me that we have to be physically dunked under water to be saved then turn around and out of the other side of your mouth, you hypocritically ask me "Why you say you are saved? because you did something that they didn't?", really?, your selling works salvation here without even realizing it then pointing your finger at me as if I've been saying anything but "It's ALL God" this entire time.

What's wrong with you man? Why are you stuck on this? Why won't you even address my question about my FO SHOW being saved without baptism? I keep asking and you answer everything but that. What's the deal here man? Because you just seem to be pushing your view, not seeking truth at all. What's your purpose here? Do you even know?
Probably because..
You cannot see that believing is just the same as baptism.
Believing..
Messenger preach the gospel
Your part to believe...
God did the works..

Baptism
Baptizer to preach death and resurrection
Your part to (just dunk in water)
God did the works...
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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Probably because..
You cannot see that believing is just the same as baptism.
Believing..
Messenger preach the gospel
Your part to believe...
God did the works..

Baptism
Baptizer to preach death and resurrection
Your part to (just dunk in water)
God did the works...
I disagree and you are wrong here. We don't have "a part", God does it all and gets ALL glory. We are just going to have to disagree here. And I will always testify I was 100% all the way saved before this physical baptism, and testify that what he is selling here is false. You are wrong man, and the people you're listening to are wrong. You can not answer my testimony, and it destroys everything you're saying, even more none of the scripture you've provided backs you up.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
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I disagree and you are wrong here. We don't have "a part", God does it all and gets ALL glory. We are just going to have to disagree here. And I will always testify I was 100% all the way saved before this physical baptism, and testify that what he is selling here is false. You are wrong man, and the people you're listening to are wrong. You can not answer my testimony, and it destroys everything you're saying, even more none of the scripture you've provided backs you up.
"you cannot destroy my testimony" now you are boasting...
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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"you cannot destroy my testimony" now you are boasting...
Boasting in Him and His glorious power and do not apologize in the slightest because from the very beginning, in everything I'm talking about, I'm giving 1 glory, I'm giving 1 credit for EVERYTHING that He's done, and everything He has done in me I have to testify.

Here in this case you are coming with this doctrine that physical water baptism is a MUST to be saved, you are saying it takes a physical act in the flesh to be saved. I am saying that I not only think the case you made with the scripture was not at all convincing, I do not believe what you or this guy on the video put forth at all said that water baptism is part of what saves you. I just think you are wrong and you read all these Scriptures out of context and mashed together, and it still doesn't say what you think it says, in my opinion.

You accuse me of boasting of my testimony, do you not know this is one of our only spiritual weapons outside of His Holy word? My testimony only glorifies our King, and only reflects His word or it's false, if I was pointing to me then it would be false, if I was pointing to a teacher it would not be pointing to God, if I was pointing to a physical act that "I did" to be truly saved then I'd be boasting in my flesh. See the difference? See the danger of what you're selling here?

Take a step back here brother, look at the comment you were responding to. How did it start? The Whole comment was saying "GOD DOES EVERYTHING!!!!", then because I pointed out 3 times at least that I testify that I was for sure, without a doubt, 100% saved by His mighty hand, without being dunked into water. That came after I was saved. This does literally destroy this doctrine of yours, yet you will not even address it. How can this be if what you say is true?
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
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Boasting in Him and His glorious power and do not apologize in the slightest because from the very beginning, in everything I'm talking about, I'm giving 1 glory, I'm giving 1 credit for EVERYTHING that He's done, and everything He has done in me I have to testify.

Here in this case you are coming with this doctrine that physical water baptism is a MUST to be saved, you are saying it takes a physical act in the flesh to be saved. I am saying that I not only think the case you made with the scripture was not at all convincing, I do not believe what you or this guy on the video put forth at all said that water baptism is part of what saves you. I just think you are wrong and you read all these Scriptures out of context and mashed together, and it still doesn't say what you think it says, in my opinion.

You accuse me of boasting of my testimony, do you not know this is one of our only spiritual weapons outside of His Holy word? My testimony only glorifies our King, and only reflects His word or it's false, if I was pointing to me then it would be false, if I was pointing to a teacher it would not be pointing to God, if I was pointing to a physical act that "I did" to be truly saved then I'd be boasting in my flesh. See the difference? See the danger of what you're selling here?

Take a step back here brother, look at the comment you were responding to. How did it start? The Whole comment was saying "GOD DOES EVERYTHING!!!!", then because I pointed out 3 times at least that I testify that I was for sure, without a doubt, 100% saved by His mighty hand, without being dunked into water. That came after I was saved. This does literally destroy this doctrine of yours, yet you will not even address it. How can this be if what you say is true?
I did not accused you...
I am saying you are boasting...(its a fact)
You are boasting about your testimony..as if your testimony is your proof that you are saved.
I do agree that God does every works of you look back...

Will God force you to believe?
That's on your part..
Will God force you to be baptize?
That's on your part...

Believing...is like this.

Trusting a stranger who is able or has the capacity to pay for everybody's debt...

Baptism..
Is allowing that stranger to pay for your debt..

Who pays your debt..its the stranger..unless you allow him...
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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I did not accused you...
I am saying you are boasting...(its a fact)
You are boasting about your testimony..as if your testimony is your proof that you are saved.
I do agree that God does every works of you look back...

Will God force you to believe?
That's on your part..
Will God force you to be baptize?
That's on your part...

Believing...is like this.

Trusting a stranger who is able or has the capacity to pay for everybody's debt...

Baptism..
Is allowing that stranger to pay for your debt..

Who pays your debt..its the stranger..unless you allow him...
Yea, you're just going to believe whatever you want, attack personal stupid stuff and completely avoid the "meat" for the false doctrine you're pushing on here. It is painfully obvious and right here for all to read. You can't answer the hard questions when pressed and don't have the faith in your position to call me a liar. The gig's up, you've been exposed, and I pray you truly think on this matter and realize that you are guilty of everything you project onto others. When I was blind, I was the only one that couldn't see it. Look at this conversation here, what you're the only one right? Be real man, not in a cult, and any church that preaches "you have to be baptized to be saved", no matter how you want to word it, is in fact the textbook definition of a cult. Seek truth, not to prove men to be right.

May God lead you closer every day.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
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Yea, you're just going to believe whatever you want, attack personal stupid stuff and completely avoid the "meat" for the false doctrine you're pushing on here. It is painfully obvious and right here for all to read. You can't answer the hard questions when pressed and don't have the faith in your position to call me a liar. The gig's up, you've been exposed, and I pray you truly think on this matter and realize that you are guilty of everything you project onto others. When I was blind, I was the only one that couldn't see it. Look at this conversation here, what you're the only one right? Be real man, not in a cult, and any church that preaches "you have to be baptized to be saved", no matter how you want to word it, is in fact the textbook definition of a cult. Seek truth, not to prove men to be right.

May God lead you closer every day.
I do not want to call a brother a liar...
But in as much as possible lay down my grounds.
Of all the argument is this thread..most questions addressed to me..have been answered back with supporting scriptures...
Mar 16:16 KJV He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
That is directly from Jesus...
If you call that teaching of Jesus a cult....I rather be in that...
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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I do not want to call a brother a liar...
But in as much as possible lay down my grounds.
Of all the argument is this thread..most questions addressed to me..have been answered back with supporting scriptures...
Mar 16:16 KJV He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
That is directly from Jesus...
If you call that teaching of Jesus a cult....I rather be in that...
Here ya go brother, here are some,
"And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. " (Acts 2:38).

Nope, nothing about going to the water at all, plus when they filled with the Spirit and saved does it say anything at all about anybody getting wet then?

How about the thief on the cross, did he find a way for a quick dip before Jesus our Lord sand King told His that He would see him that day in paradise.

Just the fact you think that our flesh comes into play at all concerning salvation is concerning to say the least. I could list a trillion scriptures that directly refute your legalism nonsense, but lets be honest, it wouldn't change a thing. You don't listen, you don;t concider, just mindlessly drone on the same talking points anyway. I was trying to have a real conversation, and you can't even answer 1 simple question that I've asked since my first comment to you. This is how I know you're not serious and just a brainwashed propagandist for your cult, you won't seriously engage, this scripture fit's what I testified to a "T", now what do you got? Another accusation completely FAR away from the point? How can you be so blind to this? Almost as if the eyes are still closed. When were you born again brother?
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
Here ya go brother, here are some,
"And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. " (Acts 2:38).

Nope, nothing about going to the water at all, plus when they filled with the Spirit and saved does it say anything at all about anybody getting wet then?

How about the thief on the cross, did he find a way for a quick dip before Jesus our Lord sand King told His that He would see him that day in paradise.

Just the fact you think that our flesh comes into play at all concerning salvation is concerning to say the least. I could list a trillion scriptures that directly refute your legalism nonsense, but lets be honest, it wouldn't change a thing. You don't listen, you don;t concider, just mindlessly drone on the same talking points anyway. I was trying to have a real conversation, and you can't even answer 1 simple question that I've asked since my first comment to you. This is how I know you're not serious and just a brainwashed propagandist for your cult, you won't seriously engage, this scripture fit's what I testified to a "T", now what do you got? Another accusation completely FAR away from the point? How can you be so blind to this? Almost as if the eyes are still closed. When were you born again brother?
As I said..the thief of the cross even if baptize that day his baptism has no effect...because Jesus have not rise from the dead that day...

Peter said..repent and be BAPTIZE...does it not mean water?...

Here again is Peter..
1Pe 3:20-21 KJV 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Jesus said..who believe and baptize shall be saved...

Peter said...baptism now save us....

Is that not clear...