Are you RIGHTEOUS?

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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#81
Good luck confessing every single sin......
Exactly! If we confess our sins is in CONTRAST to if we say we have no sin (PRESENT TENSE) and if we say we have not sinned (PAST TENSE).
 
Apr 15, 2017
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#82
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts(will not sin,hate sin,do not want sin,by Spirit will not sin,and do righteousness).
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation(does not sin): for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Forest Gump-stupid is as stupid does.

Jesus Christ-righteous is as righteous does.

Believing on the Lord,and inputed as righteousness,is a work,for whether it an act of the mind,or the body,it is a work,and the Bible says the action of righteousness is what defines them as a child of God,for the outward action is what establishes the inward action of believing,and having faith,for I can say I love my spouse,but then not show it outwardly by treating her bad,so then how do I love her.They can say they love Christ,but if they do not show it outwardly,how do they love Christ.

Actions speak louder than words,which the Bible says be not hearers of the word only,but be doers of the word.

Jesus said if you lust after a woman in your mind,it is the same as if you fornicated with her,so the action of the mind,is the same as the action of the body,and is a work of sin either way,and so whether we confess Christ,believe on Him,with the mind,or do an outward manifestation of righteousness,it is a work all the same.

Those that name the name of Christ have to depart from iniquity,and awake to righteousness,and sin not,and whoever does not do righteousness is not of God.

Some people try to make out when they are saved,the outward manifestation of sin does not affect their relationship with God,but God said it does affect their relationship with God.

Those that name the name of Christ have to depart from iniquity,and awake to righteousness,and sin not,and whoever does not do righteousness is not of God.

Faith alone,not saved by works,when we confess Christ,for we are in the flesh and that is all we can do.

Faith without works is dead,and a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,after we receive the Spirit,and the outward manifestation of the works establishes that we indeed love the Lord,and have faith.

But I quote the famous Lord Jesus Christ,doth thou not understandest.
 
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Apr 30, 2016
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#83
Not so long ago I was first introduced to what that means even though I've been a believer since 1982. It's being IN Christ having Jesus be "our Person" standing in "for us". After that, it's a daily journey about seeing just how much Jesus actually stands in for us. Many Christians are like I was and still proceeded a head in life in and about "self"

When we were not saved., Adam was our stand-in guy. We went before God in Adam and were not even in God's beloved family. So all our righteousness's were as filthy rags. We didn't even do anything but be born and live and become aware of God. We didn't do any good things or bad things we were just in Adam and outside of Christ. So when we heard the Gospel of our salvation that Jesus went on the cross on our behalf and died shedding His blood we learned He paid for all our sins making us totally worthy to go before the Father and to be recipients of His grace and truth forever after.

I was reading yet again of how majorly important the knowledge of being righteous IN Christ is. Actually I read it daily and because it is so shockingly unearthly I often forget it in my human self if I don't read it daily and allow the Holy Spirit to minister to my spirit that I am a son of God. But the Bible says to be aware of Christ's obedience at the cross. Most of us are living lives of being aware of our own obedience.

We have been taught to look at 'our' obedience and it has become a religious past time. Actually it is fought about among people who are Christians every day. I see it on these forums on CC all the time and actually whenever I come here the forums are slathered with believers who fight to look at their own righteousness and want others to look at their own righteousness. And even believe it's unholy to look to Christ's obedience and not our own as our pass port to God's hand in everything we are and do in our lives here while on earth.

In reading yesterdays devotional it reminded me yet again and I neeed to be reminded again and again because in my humaness I am distorted and negative. The Bible says in 2 Corinthians 10:5

Casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ.

That verse does not mean as most of us have been taught from day one in our Christian lives to cast down arguments and evil things by learning to think like Jesus. No., that comes later. What that verse does mean is when we fail., when life is fearful and when things in this world become and are overwhelming bigger than our ability to fix in all areas of our lives personally., corporately and universally., the answer is to bring our thoughts into captivity and think instead about the obedience of Christ. Romans 5:19 says;

For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

Many of us continue to be mislead into thinking it's by our obedience we have been made righteous. I see the devil do this all the time with people of faith. he wants us to look at ourselves and then he can freely condemn us because who knows better than us how loathsome we really are? Yet., because we are not IN Christ and 100% righteous and 100% IN the family now we are no longer our standard. Adam is no longer our standard bearer. Jesus is. There is no condemnation to those who are IN Christ Jesus. Romans 8:1-2 Because the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

This truth will free the persons who take it to live a life of faith. And in that we will bear a lot of fruit because it's the fruit of the Spirit not the fruit of the flesh. In living by the Spirit we will be walking testimonies of what Jesus has done in our lives and the good works come as an effect of our right standing IN Christ. Not our right standing in ourselves.

I hope to challenge many here in the Bible forum to consider this and see how different your Christian life will be when you are actually looking to Jesus who is the Author and Finisher of our faith.






You sure did write a lot. Most persons who do not believe in doing anything for God seem to do this.

Then you end your post with:

...how different your Christian life will be when you are actually looking to Jesus who is the Author and Finisher of our faith.

So those of us, such as myself, that believe Jesus left us with many things to do and become,
are looking to whom for our Christian life?

Is there a different Jesus I don't know about?
Apparently so.

Where did Jesus say, in all His discourses, that we're to sit back and do nothing?
Where did He say that HE is going to do everything for us?
 
Apr 30, 2016
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#84
The apostle Paul said to EXAMINE yourselves, and see if ye be in the faith, and to he that thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall........(bible 101)
Willybob,

English is a difficlt Language to understand.

Seems like Paul didn't mean what he meant.
Jesus didn't mean what he meant.

ONLY some here on these threads KNOW what they meant.
I find this interesting...
 
Apr 30, 2016
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#85
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts(will not sin,hate sin,do not want sin,by Spirit will not sin,and do righteousness).
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation(does not sin): for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Forest Gump-stupid is as stupid does.

Jesus Christ-righteous is as righteous does.

Believing on the Lord,and inputed as righteousness,is a work,for whether it an act of the mind,or the body,it is a work,and the Bible says the action of righteousness is what defines them as a child of God,for the outward action is what establishes the inward action of believing,and having faith,for I can say I love my spouse,but then not show it outwardly by treating her bad,so then how do I love her.They can say they love Christ,but if they do not show it outwardly,how do they love Christ.

Actions speak louder than words,which the Bible says be not hearers of the word only,but be doers of the word.

Jesus said if you lust after a woman in your mind,it is the same as if you fornicated with her,so the action of the mind,is the same as the action of the body,and is a work of sin either way,and so whether we confess Christ,believe on Him,with the mind,or do an outward manifestation of righteousness,it is a work all the same.

Those that name the name of Christ have to depart from iniquity,and awake to righteousness,and sin not,and whoever does not do righteousness is not of God.

Some people try to make out when they are saved,the outward manifestation of sin does not affect their relationship with God,but God said it does affect their relationship with God.

Those that name the name of Christ have to depart from iniquity,and awake to righteousness,and sin not,and whoever does not do righteousness is not of God.

Faith alone,not saved by works,when we confess Christ,for we are in the flesh and that is all we can do.

Faith without works is dead,and a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,after we receive the Spirit,and the outward manifestation of the works establishes that we indeed love the Lord,and have faith.

But I quote the famous Lord Jesus Christ,doth thou not understandest.
Great post.
Well said.

Cannot give you a rep.
Maybe someone else can??
 
Apr 30, 2016
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#86
You have not read the previous posts and are commenting as if I said "don't examine yourself" Our examining is to see if we are establishing OUR OWN righteousness OR walking in the established righteousness OF Christ. It gets so tiring when you guys don't bother to read any of the previous posts and then try to correct people who disagree with you. Read please then if you still want to correct we can actually discuss something.

"looking to Jesus., The Author and Finisher of our faith" When we walk in our own righteousness and have faith in our own goodness take heed we will fall flat on our faces. Pride goes before a fall.
Excuse me...

But YOU said that we cannot be righeous of ourselves but only as we are imputed righeousness by Jesus.

Which happen to be correct.

SO,
BUT, then WHY would we have to be examining to see if we are establishing OUR OWN righteousness ??

It gets soooo tiring to have to repeat the same stuff over and over again...

Just because we are made righteous by Jesus, DOES NOT MEAN that we are to do nothing.

Be ye not hearers of the word, but DOERS of the word.

That sounds like a command to me.
James 1:22
 
Apr 30, 2016
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#87
False. I've already explained this to you numerous times.

What do you mean you've already explainfed this to me numerous times???
Does it look to you like I'm here to LEARN from you?
I'm here to tell you that you're wrong.
That you make grace out to be cheap
and that you're an Easy Believism Christian.
IOW, a Christian who will fight tooth and nail to convince himself he has to do NOTHING to remain in the Kingdom of God.

THIS IS WRONG. And I'll continue to say so forever.

Please do not bother to explain things to me.
Just answer me with scripture, as you normally do to Others.



Believers have eternal life NOW. John 5:24 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. Yet believers will not receive their glorified bodies until the end.

John 5:24 is very nice. We do, however, to keep in context (as you like to do) have to look back to just before that and just after that.

You know how wrong it is to just pull a verse out and make it say WHATEVER YOU WANT IT TO SAY.
No, we must make it say what either Jesus meant, or one of the Writers of the N.T.

John 5:19 The Son can only do what He sees the FAther doing.

John 5:20 The Father loves the Son and thus includes the Son in everything He does. And Jesus will do even Greater works.

John 5:21 Just as the FAther can give life, so can the Son give life.

John 5:22 The Father has given authority to the Son to be the judge. The Son is equal to the FAther.

John 5:23 Anyone who DISHONORS THE FATHER, DISHONORS THE SON, because it was the Father's decision to Put Jesus in a place of Honor.

JOHN 5:24 TRULY TRULY, means that what Jesus is about to say is VERY important...

Anyone listening to Jesus, and wishes to be in Agreement with the Father (who has put Jesus in charge), has at this very moment the real, lasting life, and is no longer Condemned TO BE AN OUTSIDER (but is a member of the Kingdom)



xxxxxxx NOW COMES THE IMPORTANT PART ........................ which many like to ignore ..............

John 5:25 Truly, truly,..... listen to Me, this is important... An hour is coming when THE DEAD shall hear the voice of THE SON, THE JUDGE.... the one whom GOD made be THE JUDGE

And those who are dead, shall hear the voice of Jesus.

John 5:27-29 God has given Jesus authority to judge the dead. An hour is coming when ALL IN THEIR TOMBS SHALL HEAR THE VOICE OF JESUS...

And they shall come forth...

Those who did the GOOD DEEDS to a resurrection of Life, , those who committed evil deeds to a resurrection of judgement.




As you can see, God put Jesus in charge of judgement.
Jesus will judge the dead one day.
Those who did GOOD WORKS to a resurrection of life.
Those who did evil deeds to a resurrection of judgement, the opposite of life.

GOOD DEEDS ARE NECESSARY. THEY ARE NOT OPTIONAL if we intend to follow Jesus.




It's not all about YOU. Genuine believers remain IN HIM. Those who depart demonstrate they were NOT OF US.

What is a genuine believer? Is this someone different than a believer?
I've heard the expression GENUINE BELIEVER
TRUE BELIEVER

What makes them better than A BELIEVER?
Could someone do MORE than believe?

What you're saying is that if I believe, I'm safe in all ways and can depend on Jesus for EVERYTHING. Even for doing MY WORK for me. As if it weren't enough that he hung on that cross for us all.

So, what do you say?
Are we EXPECTED to do good works or not?
Sometimes you make it sound like Jesus might be angry if we did good works.
I remember Him saying that this is ALL WE HAVE TO DO.

Could you please post a verse where Jesus said that we're ONLY TO BELIEVE IN HIM, and he'll save us??
You won't find one, as you well know.



Jesus is the door (not a revolving door) and He is also the way, the truth and the life.

Jesus does not need to lock genuine believers in. They want to stay there.

Genuine believers have exercised their free will to choose Jesus.
So I choose Jesus.

That's it?

Am I to do NOTHING for His Kingdom?

Jesus said IF YOU LOVE ME, YOU WILL KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.
John 14:15

That sounds rather serious. it sounds like Jesus WANTS US TO KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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#89
You fail to understand that 1 John 1:9 is IN CONTRAST TO 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 1:10. So if John is saying that we must confess ALL of our sins that we have ever committed (keep a specific inventory) then go ahead and write out a list of ALL of your sins right now (and don't forget a single one). I'll be waiting.

MMD

It's not that I fail to understand.
It's that I don't agree with you and neither does the bible.

I don't read in the Word of God that we are to keep an inventory.
It seems you enjoy adding and deducting words that are never said, either by me or the Word of God.

Here... Let's make it easy and simple for those reading along who might be a little confused by you... like new Christians for instance.


1 John 1:8-10 New International Version (NIV)

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

verse 8 If we claim that we never sinned, we're only fooling ourselves and make a liar out of God.

veres 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and will forgive our sins and make us clean of all wrongdoing.

verse 10 If we claim we have never sinned, we make God to be a liar and we do not know the truth.

So...
1. We must admit to committing sins.

2. If we confess our sins, God will surely forgive them as He has promised.

3. If we say we have never sinned, we are lying and God knows the truth.


So,

Admit to the sin, ask for forgiveness, and God will forgive you.

If you say you've never sinned, you're a liar.


Now wasn't that easy? I'm sure it's better than contrasting and all that complicated stuff you like to do which is not necessary to understand he word of God.




Continued unforgiveness is the mark of an unbeliever and forgiveness would be the mark of a genuine believer. We should forgive others because God, through Christ, has forgiven us (Ephesians 4:32). It is inconceivable that someone who has truly experienced God's forgiveness could refuse to grant forgiveness to others. I've heard more than one interpretation for Matthew 6:14-15 - https://www.gotquestions.org/forgive-forgiven.html
I don't know what you're speaking about here.

My point was that IF WE ARE TO FORGIVE IN THE FUTURE
And God tells us that HE will forgive US as WE forgive OTHERS,

Then HE will forgive in the future too.

I say this because I hear that some Christians believe that it is not necessary to ask for forgiveness of sin and that in fact, it's an insult to God.

I doubt you believe this since we have both proved that it IS necessary to ask forgiveness of sins.
 

mcubed

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2013
1,449
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#90
If I compare myself to some I am, in my own sight more, righteous than than are others are more righteous than me. When I compare myself to the true standard of righteousness, Y-shua I never come close. Therefore, I am grateful that the day when it counts the day I stand before G-d for judgement (and today) G-d calls me righteous because when the Father looks at me He sees the Blood of Messiah covering me. Yes, my righteousness is of Y-shua and that, righteous before G-d is the only righteousness that matters.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
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#91
You sure did write a lot. Most persons who do not believe in doing anything for God seem to do this.

Then you end your post with:

...how different your Christian life will be when you are actually looking to Jesus who is the Author and Finisher of our faith.

So those of us, such as myself, that believe Jesus left us with many things to do and become,
are looking to whom for our Christian life?

Is there a different Jesus I don't know about?
Apparently so.

Where did Jesus say, in all His discourses, that we're to sit back and do nothing?
Where did He say that HE is going to do everything for us?
Hi Fran, one of the reasons I began this thread is to discuss with other believers where we believe our righteousness comes from. There is a knee jerk reaction from many believers when discussing Jesus and His grace and the free gift. We humans can't comprehend grace and so we have made up all kinds of names to go along with grace so as to "manage" it and make sure in our humaness we don't allow grace to manage us. But that is exactly what we are called to do when we look to Jesus. Grace is to teach us how to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts....how to live soberly, righteously and Godly in this present age. This verse has been shared many times here but it needs to be seriously considered by all of us.

The knee jerk reaction is to say like you did here that advocates like me of this amazing grace are saying we never want to DO anything., THINK anything or grow up to BE anything. That it is our desire to take Jesus for all we can and sit around like bratty lazy dysfunctional kids watching tv and eating chips all day never growing up and getting a job or desiring to leave the stage of childhood. That like those dysfunctional young adults., we want to use and abuse our parent with no mutual affection.

When in fact that is not what is being said. The truth of the matter is we have already been made the righteousness of God IN Christ when we first believed and the Holy Spirit came in at the moment of salvation. We were then "sealed in" And that is a good thing., not a bad thing. We were born again into the family and have that seed in us of or Father. And sort of like a healthy young adult who has a parent who loves them unconditionally we have a security in that love and a deep desire to go out and be all we can be and contribute and be a giving and contributing member of society. That kind of young adult seeks to do those things and even is excited and finds a wonderment in growing up.

Their first car., their first job their relationships all stem from a healthy love relationship with their parents who support and encourage them every step of the way. But Jesus is so much more than that to us believers. But many have yet to realize this because of their fear of stepping out in the freedom from the law and into the gift of right standing Jesus gave freely since He Himself paid for all our sins and even our ability to see the truth. He gave us His Holy Spirit to teach and guide us into all truth. We have all that we need to grow up in Him. And we do it by faith and not by works. We do it in the obedience of faith. Faith that trusts Jesus ability to first make us righteous in Him and 2nd to walk in that right standing we were given by the exact same grace that He gave at the time we got saved.

Unmerited favor and love causes us to be spiritually healthy. It's the unconditional love of God that constrains us and motivates us in this life. We have the Holy Spirit pointing to Jesus at all times and Jesus righteousness given to us. Not our own righteousness. I hope you will read some of the posts previously written by many here and discuss the meaning of grace and truth that Jesus brought us. What His gift means for us today and why we are righteous IN Christ and 100% accepted in the beloved.

P.S. The reason I write so much is I'm a fast typist and I looooove to share this stuff. It's my joy because it has changed my life as a Christian woman. I do go on and I'm sorry for that. The JOY of the Lord is our strength. :)
 
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#92
There remains therefor the people of God a rest. A rest from our own works to rest in God's works that He has already done in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection.

Hebrews 4:9-11 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.

The true Christian life is learning to rest in the righteousness of Another. And in this resting in His righteousness - this releases His life that is in us.

This will manifest in deeds of righteousness that will flow effortlessly in and through us because we will just simply be responding from our heart unconsciously - from the new creation in Christ that has been created in righteousness and holiness.

Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in lifethrough the One, Jesus Christ.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
#93
If I compare myself to some I am, in my own sight more, righteous than than are others are more righteous than me. When I compare myself to the true standard of righteousness, Y-shua I never come close. Therefore, I am grateful that the day when it counts the day I stand before G-d for judgement (and today) G-d calls me righteous because when the Father looks at me He sees the Blood of Messiah covering me. Yes, my righteousness is of Y-shua and that, righteous before G-d is the only righteousness that matters.


Amen to that mcubed. We are told not to compare ourselves with one another or by our selves. Our standard is Christ and only He can meet the standard. The amazing news is that not only did Jesus give us His righteousness in order to be acceptable to God when we die and leave this earth so we can go to heaven., but we have this righteousness to get us through while we are here on earth.

We so desperately need that knowledge in order to function as healthy spiritual beings who are not stunted in our growth because we don't know the Love of God in Christ. His love is unconditional and the more we lean on that love the stronger we become IN Him. Our identity is not found in our own righteousness but in Christ. His blood covers us right now as we venture out into the world and our day to day lives.

The Holy Spirit is always pointing us to Christ and not to our own righteousness. His job is not to condemn but to remind us of who we are now IN Christ., we have been changed and born again into the beloved. The Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin and the believer of righteousness. Many Christians have gotten this mixed up and believe the Holy Spirit is always there to zap us with condemnation when we sin. That is the enemies job. he is the accuser of the brethren not the Holy Spirit.

The Bible says in Romans 8:1 there is therefore NOW no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. (period)
Many of the people who copied the Bible down added the next part of ...to those who walk not in the flesh but after the spirit. That is not there in the original writings in verse 1. I use a few different translations including the Amplified but the American Standard is the one that is interpreted correctly and I usually go with that one.

So hard it is for us humans to accept that we have been made righteous in Christ and have no more condemnation or judgment coming from God anymore. It was all absorbed by Jesus on the cross when He took all our sin and paid for all of it. Now we are to daily believe that in our lives and walk in freedom from fear and loss. He has paid for our salvation IN FULL.
 
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willybob

Guest
#94
1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. Walking in darkness is descriptive of children of the devil. Walking in the light is descriptive of children of God. Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In vs. 11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother. *Notice that "walks in darkness, hates his brother" is connected with children of the devil.

Notice that 1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (vs. 9) is IN CONTRAST TO - If we say that we have no sin, (PRESENT TENSE) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (vs. 8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (PAST TENSE) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us (vs. 10).

Some people misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we must confess each specific sin that we commit as we commit them (keep a specific inventory) as an additional requirement to remain cleansed and if we forget a sin we are toast!

Paul is clear that we are saved by grace through faith, not works and NOT faith and works or faith + "these" works and just not "those" works.

That sounds similar to the same argument I hear from Roman Catholics. Elsewhere, Paul said we are not saved by works of righteousness which we have done.. (Titus 3:5) and that God saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began. That covers good works in general/works of obedience produced out of faith.

Works put in their proper place are subsequent to saving faith in Christ. The Bible says we are saved by grace through faith, not works, whether religious works or good works/works of obedience produced out of faith etc.. This does not remove good works/works of obedience from the Christian life, it just puts them in their proper place, subsequent to regeneration and salvation.

Verse 10 does not imply that we are saved by good works. In verse 10, we read - For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus FOR good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Do you ever cease from your relentlessly arguing that sin is the forgone conclusion of scripture? You can make more excuses while twisting scripture into a pretzel than can be imagined....
 
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willybob

Guest
#95
some seem to be paranoid over the word works, not realizing they are doing works 24/7, either the works of satan or the works of God,,,get over it, nothing can change this fact, no amount of scripture wrestling will change it....

When we cease from our own works (sin), do we then enter into His rest...William Tyndale...
 
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willybob

Guest
#96
Again,,,,, we are save by grace (the empowerment of the Spirit) through faith (steadfast fidelity to God) SYNERGY, these are the WORKING dynamics of salvation, and not of our own religious inventions such as magical transfers of virtue, and hyper grace etc. etc. Note: The Jews believed in the magical transfer by genetics and Talmudic religious customs, being very superstitious, Christianity is much the same, only different superstitions come into play...... For there is no end to the vain books of Pundits said, Solomon……..Gods’ mercy and grace are extended to the worthy and faithful, and it is by HIS mercy alone can past sins be forgiven in repentance…So it’s not of any of the 10,000 religious inventions that we boast in, and we are preordained to good works (this is the conditions of the covenant set in place before the world was)……be blessed
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#97
Faith is a substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen, it is the hope of eternal life, which God, who can not lie, promised before time began, and it is this hope which is he basis for continuing t have faith in God,
Those who are saved by grace through faith will work the woks they were created to do, not might work, as some want to try to tell people


it it is not steadfast fidelity,

the workers want to preach grace, but deny it,

 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
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#98
While driving to work tonight there was a great message on about this righteousness subject. The preacher used the example of how there are many believers who are saved and on their way to heaven but while here on earth., the stone has not been rolled away from their tomb sort of speak.

When Lazarus was raised from the dead Jesus did it. He raised him up and the stone was rolled away by the complete power of Christ. The man was still in his grave clothes he couldn't walk all bound up like that. Many of us believers who have heard the good news of Christ's righteousness giving us our standing were once without power in our lives. We were saved but we tried to live the Christian life by our own power of obedience.
[FONT=&quot](all bound up in grave clothes of works of our own righteousness)[/FONT]

While we did that we congratulated ourselves sort of with a mind set that says; this is the thing I'm supposed to do so God is pleased and so now I'm pleased too because I succeeded in being obedient today so God is now pleased with me. Weak and beggarly elements come to mind when I think of how I used to feel successful only when I was obedient that day. If I wasn't and messed up., I was condemned by the enemy and received that condemnation because I deserved it. But I was actually turning from the gift of no condemnation set up for such a time as that. I believed the enemy and not the Word of God.

I've since learned about "Christ's" righteousness going before us. And see that there is no "congrats to meee" It's the believing in His righteousness by grace through faith. It is He who leads us where we we're supposed to go in the given situations of our lives. And if we made a wrong turn it's Him who gets us back on track too. We only have to be willing to believe. To have faith in His ability to save and lead.,guide and direct. He gets all the credit. And we are so joyous because we found we get the rivers of living water and the fellowship of the Spirit. This is the rest. This is the Lord and we are living and moving and having our being IN Him. This is being a co laborer.

Until that happened I was still behind the stone that had not been rolled away. Saved but still in a kind of what the Bible calls "bondage" to the law of sin and death. The law is that stone that stops us from dropping off our grave clothes and following Christ in our lives by grace through faith and not our good intentions or our good works. When we believe it is our performance of the law after we are saved that brings pleasure to the Father we are actually frustrating the grace of God in Christ.

The only measure for righteousness is Christ. It is His righteousness that gives us all the standing in our lives today and tomorrow. When we acknowledge Jesus as being the One whose righteousness we stand and hold up we please the Father. Even the Holy Spirit the 3rd person in the Godhead always points to Jesus.

When we do good works it's an outcome of being in the presence of Christ. When we are hearing about Him and learning about Him as the Holy Spirit shows us., He will also fills us through the Word and through His witness the way only the Holy Spirit can. This doesn't happen "because of" our good works.,it happens because of the obedience of faith. We are in the presence of Christ because we acknowledge it is HIS good works. This is key and I hope some who have yet to grasp it will grasp it whole heartedly.

This is what being righteous is all about. We do not do a work to BE righteous. Jesus did the work and made us righteous when we were born again IN Christ. Jesus said in John7:38-39 He who believes in Me (who cleaves to and trusts in and relies on Me) as the Scripture has said, from his innermost being shall flow (continuously) springs and rivers of living water. Amplified Bible

NOT: he who works hard and thinks right and does right and lives right out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.

No., the Bible makes it clear this is a work of the Holy Spirit in the life of believers who cleave to and rely on and trust in Jesus not themselves vs 39.

There is a major power that arises from living in the Spirit. "For God has not given us the spirit of fear but of Power and Love and a sound mind" When we walk in the Spirit we don't fulfill the lusts of the flesh. It's not a matter of following the 10 commandments it's about a new and living way. Unlike any way we have had before as humans. It is the obedience of faith and the life of the Spirit in us. Not the obedience of the law of sin and death.

So living in the Spirit means we work without the sweat of our brows in stress and worry. We don't live like other men in the world. We are able to be in this world but not of this world. Our citizenship is not here and we know our Redeemer lives and we are confident in His ability to keep us in the love of God. Being confident of this that He Who began a good work in your will perform it till the day of Jesus Christ.

When we are confident in THIS., we will perform the will of God and bear a lot of fruit in our human lives here. We will see many miracles and see His hand moving daily too. Also., it's just a grain of mustard seed and yet He has turned my whole life around. Be willing to believe and consider He will do what He promised and He will pour out so many blessings we can't even begin to contain it.

(so sorry to have gone on for soooooooooooooooooo long)

 
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#99
There are a lot of good ideas except this reality stops it all.

We are the righteousness of Christ on earth.
Christ is us is the light.

So if in you is darkness, conflict, tumult, seek Jesus, seek openness and healing,
for the light still does not reign.

Imagine this. The world's dream. All the partners, and the houses, all the wealth
are mine, am I a different person or the same, irrespective of these dreams.

I know for many this is there idol, but for those in Christ it is nothing. If you see this
you know Jesus. Are you the type of guy a woman offering herself will not be resisted?
Too many in there hearts are this flawed. If only, they say to themselves.

I shared this with a none believer and he said he had never met a guy who would resist
a woman. A sad culture we live in. How real is the Christian reality though?

How dare you ask? Well there are many atheists in sheep's clothing among us, so why
not also total heddonists, just like the apostles found?
 
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Exactly. We can't ever establish our own righteousness. It just is not there. And when we humans start looking for it in all the wrong places., we fail miserably in our walk as believers here on earth. That is why we are constantly reminded in the Bible to look to Jesus and away from self. When we are examining ourselves it's about seeing if we are of the mindset of seeing Christ's righteousness and not our own. That is what self examining is about. Not seeing if your being a great worker.

The Holy Spirit will point us to Jesus at all times. Why don't you guys who are against the "obedience of faith" stop and see what we are trying to share with you. Get away from looking at your own obedience and begin the awesome journey of living in the obedience of faith. Seeing HIS obedience and like the sheep that we are., follow Him because that is what He tells us to do. We are not herded and driven.,No., we are lead and we called to follow. Jesus goes before and we follow after. This happens when we are first saved and forever after as believers.



The lie is spoken. We can never walk like Jesus.

The words used sound so plausible. Doing what Christ says, believing what Christ did makes
you clean and holy is wrong????

This is rebellion and heresy though said so nicely and with such sincerity.

This cool aid dents Christs words, and those who follow it cut themselves off from the Lord,
yet it seems so nice. It is very nice, no worries, no change required, no conviction, sorrow or
repentance just rest, arrrrrr.

Jesus said you had to drink His blood and eat His flesh. Hard statements, a difficult road.
Odd that the Lord should talk of hard things when others speak peace and ease.