Are you "Saved" and filled with the "Holy Ghost/Spirit"?

AgapeSpiritEyes · Nov 19, 2012

Laws ?! Are you asking, in a different logos (word small w) a boundary? Well the boundary is not of external laws written but of the hidden law of the Holy Spirit or boundary, limits are marked by crossing into the flesh of which there is no good thing, this (law) Agape is not yet complete in me so when i do not the fruit of the Holy Spirit i know i missed the Highest mark of purely the Essence of Jesus who is my love Lord (and many other of Jesus’ perfections of which i can and will do now and in eternity) Savior His perfection in me is the work of the Holy Spirit’s working Jesus' character and likeness in me. Just because i experienced a new birth and the filling of the Holy Spirit i have not yet been finished growing and developing the Holy Spirits work of manifesting Jesus perfectly and completely this is set by the Lord giving me my life time for me to sow to the Holy Spirit (if you want to say law of the Spirit) in dying to the flesh willing it to be the work of the Holy Spirit making Jesus fully in me. The issue is the issuing of the Holy Spirit of Jesus through us. In this point the abiding in the Holy Spirit manifesting Jesus there is no consciousness of the Law but of abiding and yielding to the Holy Spirit to make manifest of Jesus in and through me, if I miss this mark I know it that I yielded to the flesh and acknowledge this truth walk back into the Light of Jesus confess it and continue to walk in the light of the Holy Spirit to produce fruit and the spirituals of the Holy Spirit of Jesus.

Cobus · Nov 20, 2012

NO! No one that is filled with the Holy Spirit CAN sin, otherwise it is the Holy Spirit that sin! 1 John3:9. The Holy Spirit CANNOT sin! But I have received the Holy Spirit to lead me to this FILLING of the Spirit. The Holy Spirit LEADS before HE SILLS, and He only FILLS those that FOLLOW ALL THE WAY!

This is the only correct Biblical answer!

Cobus · Nov 20, 2012

BarlyGurl said:

Barlygurl I am not targeting you but you just put the position of this false doctrine so perfectly... So I want to show ALL where the error is in this reasoning....

Pople think that when you are filled with the Holy Spirit you can still sin. That is so wrong, and plenty verses says otherwise right through scripture. I do agree we can still sin on our way to the Holy Spirit batism, but AFTER God filled you with the Holy Spirit you are 100% Christ-like. If you still need to become completely Christ Like, you still lack the FILLING OF THE SPIRIT. because it is the filling of the Holy SPirit that makes you COMPLETE IN CHRIST!

God first send His Holy Spirit to lead us befoer He fills us. Once filled we CANNOT sin. 1 John3:9 and 1 John5:18. And this is where people get confused, becasue a lot that is still led by the Spirit clame to be filled by the Spirit. Way too many people believe lies that pastors preach.

Every person that is FILLED with the Holy Spirit is as perfect as God is perfect. They are filled with GOD! How can they sin? Or still lack being Christ like? If the Holy Spirit fills any person that person is 100% Christ like! If it is not so, what does make a person 100 % to the measure of Christ, Like it is expalined in Eph4:11 to 13... Uto a perfect MAN!

Abiding · Nov 20, 2012

webchatter said:

He will get to his point soon...i saw it right off....but hes having so much fun
if im right it is a good point.

AgapeSpiritEyes · Nov 20, 2012

In producing the fruits of the Holy Spirit and walkng in Him their is NO Law only Spiritual Fruit Prouducing and that fruit is the Likeness of Jesus Gal. 5:22 be free of all laws walking in the Holy Spirit allowing Him to reproduce Jesus in us and through us, in this there is no Law.This spiritual birth is the finished gift and work of Jesus' His life and work on the Cross and resurrection to give us this freedom to produce real lively fruits from the Holy Spirit to be free of Law consciously, conscious of the intimacy of the Holy Spirit living and giving through us.

Eccl12and13 · Nov 20, 2012

Cobus said:

So.....you claim that all that are filled with the Holy Spirit CANNOT sin?

Do you consider yourself to be filled with the Holy Spirit? If so..... have you ever asked God for forgiveness AFTER you received the Holy Spirit?

Do you know that we are instructed by the Lord TO ask for forgiveness when we pray. Do you know this is a law. If you do not you are breaking the law of God thus you are sinning?

So......if you are filled with the Holy Spirit and are NOT asking the Lord for forgiveness you are breaking His law....you are sinning!

.

Eccl12and13 · Nov 20, 2012

Cobus said:

Let's read what can happen even to a person that is filled with the Holy Ghost;

Heb.6
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

If it were IMPOSSIBLE for one that was filled with the Holy Ghost to fall away, why would Paul give this warning of what will happen to one WHEN they fall away?

.

angelofmercy · Nov 20, 2012

Eccl12and13 said:

Let's read what can happen even to a person that is filled with the Holy Ghost;

Heb.6
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

If it were IMPOSSIBLE for one that was filled with the Holy Ghost to fall away, why would Paul give this warning of what will happen to one WHEN they fall away?

.

Because it IS impossible! I believe ALL will be saved. Perfection comes from loving your neighbors as yourself.

Crossfire · Nov 20, 2012

Cobus said:

Holding to this view, that would either make you an advocate of sinless perfection or Antinomianism, both of which are considered to be very dangerous doctrine.

Sinless perfection is the belief that once saved, it is impossible for man to sin thus you must be sinless to be saved. Antinomianism states that once saved, God ignores your sin thus you are sinless by default even though you sin daily. Neither doctrine is biblical.

Red33 · Nov 20, 2012

Cobus said:

It is a mistake to think that believers can stay and remained filled with the Spirit 100% of the time. We all want to and God would never discourage that in our lives and has even given us a mandate to be continually filled with the Spirit in (Eph 5:18,19), but it is not an automated filling or one that we can plug into just because of the new birth. So, we do fail and we do sin in our failure. We do have thoughts and imaginations that are not from God and we act upon them, sometimes unwillingly and sometimes not. The Spirit of God is not grieved in these instances nor quenched nor has the Spirit been limited and to think so would be unwise and do a disservice to the work of God through faith in the believer's life. The Spirit becomes grieved when we resist the work of God through rebellion.

We are to have understanding that is according to faith and the promises of God who calleth those things that are not as though they were (Rom 4:17). This is how the finished work operates through the Spirit and through faith in the bliever's life. We have been placed in Christ by grace the moment we believed and became new creatures in Christ. God begins a work in the believer (Phil 1:6) and has sealed the believer to perform that work until the redemption day when they receive their new bodies (Eph 4:30). This involves a process through the plan of God of growing in grace and knowledge of Christ (2Pt 3:18), where God is making us become (experientially)what He has already made us to be (positionally). This is what it means for us to come unto a perfect (mature) man in Christ, who is not tossed around by every wind of doctrine (Eph 4:11-16).

Are these inspired scriptures given to us in vain...

Ps 37:23,24
23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord: and he delighteth in his way.
24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand.

Prov 28:10
10 Whoso causeth the righteous to go astray in an evil way, he shall fall himself into his own pit: but the upright shall have good things in possession.

Prov 24:16
16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

Rom 14:4
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

The truth in these scriptures was not given unto the just or believers to make a provision for their flesh and to live in sin and think it is okay, but on the contrary. They are given to let the believer know that they are loved of God and that he will be faithful to those He has redeemed, knowing their frame, knowing their thoughts afar off, knowing what is in their heart and knowing their uprisings and downsittings (Ps 139:1-4, Ps 103:14, Mt 9:4).

Will you deny the truth of these inspired scriptures that are given to all believers as part of the WHOLE counsel of God? It is inevitable that the just will fall from time to time, but when they fall they will not be utterly cast down and will be upholden by God's hand. This is not a reason for any believer to sin or live in sin because it is also a fearful thing to falls into the hands of the living God (Heb 10:31) and He will chasten His children who are lead astray and bring them back.

The FINISHED WORK of the cross has put away our sins once and for all. We must reckon on that when we fail and we must trust in the blood of Christ no matter how weak we may be in the flesh or if we fail in the same area seven times a day. God will always raise up a standard and when sin abounds grace does much more abound. That standard is grace (not the law or even repentance) and will always be grace for the NT church believer who is in Christ. We don't sin that grace may abound, but when we do sin (God forbid) grace will abound because it is the only thing that can restore the believer back into fellowship with the Father and the Son and the members of Christ's body.

psychomom · Nov 20, 2012

If we do not understand what Christ did when He gave His life for us regarding God's Law, we cannot understand the New Covenant.

It is not a modification of the Old Covenant made with the nation of Israel.
It is New!
"Behold, I will do something new, Now it will spring forth; Will you not be aware of it? I will even make a roadway in the wilderness, Rivers in the desert." (Isaiah 43:19)

Again I will say, it is we (in Christ) who have died!

We have been crucified with Christ, so that the requirements of the law are not binding upon us.

Indeed, how can the law have a hold over the dead?
Galatians 6:2 says we are under the law of Christ, not the law of Moses (and even Jesus called it the law of Moses).

Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter. (Romans 7:4-6)

Actually, just read the whole book of Romans, and throw in 2 Corinthians for good measure.

-ellie

Dude653 · Nov 20, 2012

Law has nothing to do with it. If you do not have a repentant spirit when you sin, are you really saved???

Crossfire · Nov 20, 2012

Eccl12and13 said:

2 Corinthians 12: 9-10

But He said to me, My grace (My favor and loving-kindness and mercy) is enough for you [sufficient against any danger and enables you to bear the trouble manfully]; for My strength and power are made perfect (fulfilled and completed) and show themselves most effective in [your] weakness. Therefore, I will all the more gladly glory in my weaknesses and infirmities, that the strength and power of Christ (the Messiah) may rest (yes, may pitch a tent over and dwell) upon me! So for the sake of Christ, I am well pleased and take pleasure in infirmities, insults, hardships, persecutions, perplexities and distresses; for when I am weak [in human strength], then am I [truly] strong (able, powerful in divine strength).

Many in the church today interpret this scripture to say that because man is weak, we should brag of our own sinfulness in order to lift up God's willingness to forgive sin. That view is utter nonsense! What this scripture actually teaches is that God's strength is made perfect in our weakness, for when we turn to Him in our moment of weakness His grace provides us with access to His strength to both endure and overcome such difficult times.

Jon4TheCross · Nov 20, 2012

Eccl12and13 said:

Do you not read scripture? This prayer was for not Him.....it was for THEM....for US...let's read....

Matt.6
[1] Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

Take heed they YE do not....

[2] Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

When THOU doest thine alms...

[3] But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

But when THOU doest alms....

[4] That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

That THINE alms may be.....

[5] And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

When THOU prayest.....

[6] But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

When THOU prayest....

[7] But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

But when YE pray....

[8] Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

Before YE ask Him.....

[9] After this manner therefore pray ye:

AFTER THIS MANNER THEREFORE PRAY YE:

This prayer is for US! This was instructed by God. This was not an optional prayer. We are TOLD to ask God to forgive our sins. If we so not.....we break God's law. Thus we sin.

So again..... You claim that,

But by NOT asking for forgiveness you commit sin.

But more importantly..... by saying that you are not guilty of any sin is not supported by scripture! Having that mind set is far worse.....

.

He that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit, how could I ask for forgiveness for myself. I ask for forgiveness in the same way that the original High Priest of this Everlasting Priesthood did, cause I also am a high priest by measure.

Jon4TheCross · Nov 20, 2012

Eccl12and13 said:

It is possible to fall away. In my current situation if I were to go back to what I know, and the key word is know, is wrong, and actually fight God and try to get more people in hell, then I have hate as my master. Never will I do this. It is true that one can fall away, but then again, I can't fall away, not after knowing God.

Jon4TheCross · Nov 20, 2012

Just thought I would add this:
I can't fall away because I already have known evil, and now I know God. I personally beleive that nobody who has known evil, and then known God will ever turn back.

surrenderedheart · Nov 20, 2012

hmmmm..it looks to me like you are not really looking for answers when you posted this thread. You are looking for an argument and someone to fall into your little trap...like a spider to a fly.

Eccl12and13 · Nov 20, 2012

Jon4TheCross said:

If you are not asking for forgiveness you are breaking a law of God. Asking for forgiveness of our sins is something we are instructed to do by the Lord. It is not an option. So if you are not obeying God's command you are sinning.

Jesus instructs us to ask for forgiveness for ourselves. Jesus NEVER asked for forgiveness for Him self. Jesus asked God to forgive us. So although you may be asking for forgiveness in the same way that "...the original High Priest of this Everlasting Priesthood..." did.....if you are not also asking forgiveness for your own sins you are yet a sinner.

.

Eccl12and13 · Nov 20, 2012

surrenderedheart said:

Not looking for an argument nor am I trying to trap anyone. Just want those that believe they are not under the law to realize that they are.

For if there are any that say they are "Saved" and filled with the "Holy Ghost/Spirit", and also ask God for forgiveness when they pray, then that means they are acknowledging the fact that there are laws they have broken, thus the need to ask for forgiveness. And by asking God to forgive them must also mean there are yet laws they are under, otherwise.....if there are no laws there is no transgression.

Now of course.....as I'm sure you have read, there are some that claim they do not sin or are incapable if sinning.

Them I ignore!

.

Jon4TheCross · Nov 20, 2012

Eccl12and13 said:

I am not a sinner any more, I am forgiven. I am a high priest of the everlasting priesthood. I will pray as Jesus prayed, and with the same understanding that Jesus had when He prayed.

Are you "Saved" and filled with the "Holy Ghost/Spirit"?

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