Are you "Saved" and filled with the "Holy Ghost/Spirit"?

[Eccl12and13]

this thread looks like a repeat of the17 pg thread "fallacies of the church". Go over there where I confessed my sins. It's the last post right now. So obviously u r going to finally get to the point where u say none of us are saved until we die or on judgement day, right.? sorry u don't believe u r saved.

This post is not about when a person considers them self to be saved.

This post is about being under or not being under the laws of God.

If you read the question presented you would know that I was asking those that considered themselves to be filled with the "Holy Spirit", if they asked God for forgiveness AFTER they considered themselves to be "Saved"!

Then I preceded to ask what law were they asking to be forgiven of if they claimed there were no longer under the law.


Did you not read the post.....or did you just jump in eyes closed?


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[Eccl12and13]

Confessing sin isn't the the same as repentance... example "I steal, I am a thief, God says that is wrong." is a confession. "I steal, I am a theif, God says that is wrong, I want to do what God says" is sanctification.

Does not the sinner AND the saint ask God for forgiveness once they come to the knowledge that their actions are wrong in the eyes of the Lord?

Do you really just stop at; "...I want to do what God says", without asking Him to forgive you of your sin?


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[Eccl12and13]

To those that claim they are not under God's laws because they are now "Saved" and filled with the "Holy Ghost?Spirit", why do you ask God to forgive you? What law did you break, thus the reason to request forgiveness, when you say ALL of God's laws have been nailed to His cross?

Could it be there are some laws of God that even Christians must still keep?


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[Jon4TheCross]

What are you talking about? You do not sin in thoughts nor in actions? Really? Because if that is the case you are now ALMOST a perfect being. You are ALMOST up there with those angels that were not cast out of heaven!

So....when you pray.....although we have been instructed to ASK for forgiveness...you do NOT?

That action alone is breaking God's law. Jesus gave us detailed instructions how to pray. It was not an option. Therefore it is something we MUST do. If we do not we have broken yet another of God's laws. Let's read it;

Matt.6
[9] After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
[10] Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
[11] Give us this day our daily bread.
[12] And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.


So again....you do not ask God for forgiveness?

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No, I (a holy spirit by measure) do not ask for my own forgiveness, cause I (a holy spirit by measure) am not guilty of any sin. I ask for forgiveness for others like Jesus, but I certainly do not ask for forgiveness for being holy. When Jesus prayed that prayer, was He lying and saying that He needed forgiveness?

 

[Eccl12and13]

To those that claim to be "Saved" and filled with the "Holy Ghost?Spirit", were there certain actions that you STOPPED doing? Where there things you did before getting "Saved" that you no longer do now?

And do you do your best NOT to continue to do those actions that you STOPPED doing when you became "Saved"


Why do you not do those actions any more?



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[Grandpa]

2 Corinthians 3:14-18
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

I suppose my faith is not perfect yet. I suppose my wisdom and knowledge are not perfect yet. I suppose I am not perfect yet.

I guess I have a rebellious streak that needs to be checked from time to time. For this, I ask for forgiveness.

What Laws do I break? I suppose all of them... I am not 100% sure.

How is this possible for a born again believer? I wondered about that too. I thought I was over all that stuff. But the flesh wants what it wants. Its a constant fight. But one the flesh doesn't have any hope of winning.

Especially considering if God be for us who can be against us??

 

[webchatter]

thank you for the rudeness thread starter, but I did read the whole thing before I just jumped in. If you want to make a point why didnt you make it in the opening thread starter. I see you prefer to lead us to guess. You are still asking questions and we are on page 2. We still don't know the OPINION you are eventually going to give us to debate. nor do i care.

 

[Eccl12and13]

No, I (a holy spirit by measure) do not ask for my own forgiveness, cause I (a holy spirit by measure) am not guilty of any sin. I ask for forgiveness for others like Jesus, but I certainly do not ask for forgiveness for being holy. When Jesus prayed that prayer, was He lying and saying that He needed forgiveness?

Do you not read scripture? This prayer was for not Him.....it was for THEM....for US...let's read....

Matt.6
[1] Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

Take heed they YE do not....

[2] Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

When THOU doest thine alms...

[3] But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

But when THOU doest alms....

[4] That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

That THINE alms may be.....

[5] And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

When THOU prayest.....

[6] But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

When THOU prayest....

[7] But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

But when YE pray....

[8] Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

Before YE ask Him.....

[9] After this manner therefore pray ye:

AFTER THIS MANNER THEREFORE PRAY YE:


This prayer is for US! This was instructed by God. This was not an optional prayer. We are TOLD to ask God to forgive our sins. If we so not.....we break God's law. Thus we sin.


So again..... You claim that,

No, I (a holy spirit by measure) do not ask for my own forgiveness, cause I (a holy spirit by measure) am not guilty of any sin.

But by NOT asking for forgiveness you commit sin.

But more importantly..... by saying that you are not guilty of any sin is not supported by scripture! Having that mind set is far worse.....



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[Eccl12and13]

thank you for the rudeness thread starter, but I did read the whole thing before I just jumped in. If you want to make a point why didnt you make it in the opening thread starter. I see you prefer to lead us to guess. You are still asking questions and we are on page 2. We still don't know the OPINION you are eventually going to give us to debate. nor do i care.

I am still asking questions because after 2 pages of replies not one person has answered the other questions asked after they answered YES.

Here they are again, not for you because I know you do not care;


I am curious to know which law it is that you are asking to be forgiven of....if those that claim to be saved feel they are no longer under the law?

Just what do you mean when you claim you are not under God's laws...yet ask God for forgiveness?



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[Eccl12and13]

To those reading this post.....over and over again I read how those that claim to be "Saved" are not under the law. Some even claim that they do not sin once they become "Saved" and filled with the "Holy Ghost/Spirit".

And that is why I asked this question. If one claims to be "Saved" and filled with the "Holy Ghost/Spirit" but yet asks God for forgiveness.....what laws are that asking to be forgiven of if they are NOT under the law?


How can you claim to be "Saved" and filled with the "Holy Ghost/Spirit" AND claim to not be under the law....and yet ask God to forgive you for breaking His laws?


And yes there is a catch..and I'm sure most have caught it by now...which is why most are not answering the second set of questions.


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[Strong1]

Is it possible, that those who are saved/spirit filled, are speaking about the law(according to the world) that Paul spoke of? (Romans 6: 14, 15) which is exactly what he said, but BUT Paul contines in vs 15 to say, "shall we sin, because we are not under the law? But under grace? God forbid."

This says what it says, because we are under grace, does not mean we should take advantage of it......your question is backwards to me.
Of course you need to ask for forgiveness even if you are saved/spirit filled. Jesus said, we wont recieve forgiveness if we don't forgive.
Please, even spirit filled believers need forgiveness. Daily things come to rob us of this wonderfull gift of salvation we have. which is why Paul also speaks of "dying daily." to what then? Why would we need to beat our bodies/minds into subjection, if sin was no longer possible for a saved person?
The mere fact that Matt 24, states, many will say Lordll be I do not k, Lord, did I not? and his response will be I do not know you? suggests we better be in the habit of humbling ourselves before God, and ask forgiveness for our faults. We dare ask our loved ones for it when we are out of line with them, but not to Holy God? How presumptuous.

And the person who posted that he has no sin, or doesn't sin? Then you, my perfect friend, need to just die already, because your completed for this world, and have nothing left to learn here.

 

[Eccl12and13]

Is it possible, that those who are saved/spirit filled, are speaking about the law(according to the world) that Paul spoke of? (Romans 6: 14, 15) which is exactly what he said, but BUT Paul contines in vs 15 to say, "shall we sin, because we are not under the law? But under grace? God forbid."

This says what it says, because we are under grace, does not mean we should take advantage of it......your question is backwards to me.

And this is my question that has not been answered;

To sin is to break God's law. Paul asks the question should we break God's law because we are not under the law?

This question only makes sense if Paul is speaking of another set of laws. This has been an on going topic that I have presented on this forum.

I presented the question asked in this post to further get those reading to understand that ALL of God's laws could not have been nailed to His cross if they are asking God to forgive them of their sins when they pray.

For how can you ask for forgiveness for breaking laws if you are not under laws.



So....which laws are we no longer under? The laws that were truly nailed to His cross at Christ death. The only laws that ended were those that stopped when the veil was ripped in two when Christ died.

Christ came so that the killing of bulls and goats could stop. How do we know this?


Because saints..those that claim to be "Saved" and filled with the "Holy Ghost?Spirit" are still asking God to forgive them of sins they commit when they pray.

That is the reason for presenting the question. For if you ask for God's forgiveness, you are acknowledging the fact that you did break God's laws, thus acknowledging the fact that ALL of God's laws could NOT have been nailed to His cross, thus still being under some sort of law.

We all...sinners AND saints are not under the law; the law of killing bulls and goats. All of the others we are to do our best to keep.

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[hopesprings]

Red... doesn't the scripture say... He will CLEANSE us from unrighteousness? IN relation to the redemptive work of Christ on the cross, Jesus said... "it is finished". Thus, when convicted we aren't really asking for forgiveness over and over... because we ARE forgiven but need sanctification. Rather, we are acknowledging the spirits conviction... recognizing an area that is not operating in "christlike character" and choosing to agree with God regarding the issue... thus we are cleansed of the old character and renewed in Christ... day by day.

Confessing sin isn't the the same as repentance... example "I steal, I am a thief, God says that is wrong." is a confession. "I steal, I am a theif, God says that is wrong, I want to do what God says" is sanctification.

Oh BarlyGurl...you're good you! I agree with your post. It is a humillity issue. Praise God that when Jesus said it is finished it WAS finished! Paul called himself the "greatest sinner that I know". We know that the will of the flesh battles against the will of the spirit. We still wrestle with sin because of our flesh...but if we sin and think we don't have to ask for forgiveness then it reveals our own depravity and should cause us to consider WHY we don't think we need to confess our sin. It is pride and arrogance that keeps us from going before the throne and repenting to a most holy God. If we are unwilling to repent, then we need to take a good hard look at our spiritual life. that's my two cents...

 

[Eccl12and13]

And the person who posted that he has no sin, or doesn't sin? Then you, my perfect friend, need to just die already, because your completed for this world, and have nothing left to learn here.

Thanks! I was wondering if anyone else was going to chime in on this persons post of not having any sins, or doesn't sin. Like I said...they are ALMOST perfect....as soon as they get rid of this mortal body they will be as the angels. I concur.......why wait! What's left here to learn?



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[Abiding]

define "under"
define what it means to be nailed to the cross.
now youve got it.

feel free to move around the cabin..or confess your sins

 

[Red33]

Yes, and it is a good question because the answer will reveal what we understand about confessing sin to God in relationship to the finished work. However, as long as we acknowledge and confess our sin to God when we are convicted, asking for God to forgive us is not necessary for He is faithful and just to forgive us There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking and if you have a problem asking God to forgive you, then you should probably ask Him to do that very thing when you come under conviction when you have sinned against God.having sinned against Him.

When I submitted this post it was all messed up with things being left out and incomplete (my bad). I apologize for this and this is what it should have said and communicated in so many words.

Yes, and it is a good question because the answer will reveal what we understand about confessing sin to God in relationship to the finished work. However, as long as we acknowledge and confess our sin to God when we are convicted, asking for God to forgive us is not necessary, for He is faithful and just to forgive us and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness associated with that sin. There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking God to forgive you. If you have a problem with forgiveness then you should probably ask Him to do that very thing when you come under conviction having sinned against Him, yet knowing that your sin was already judged by the Lamb of God. (I added a little)

May I also add that when the believer goes to God to confess his sin he is approaching the only one who has the power to forgive and remit his sin. This brings me to this scripture that was spoken by the Lord to His disciples in (Jn 20:23). What did he mean when He said to His disciples after breathing upon them and said receive you the Holy Spirt...

23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

 

[Crossfire]

For the believer, sin is inevitable when we fail to "abide in the vine" (John 15) or, as the Apostle Paul would call it; walk in the Spirit (Galatians 5). For man, it is impossible to refrain from sinning in and of his or her own strength. However scripture is clear, grace not only provides forgiveness of sins already committed but also help in our moment(s) of weakness (Heb. 4:16, 1 Cor. 10:13) thus, for the believer, sin becomes a choice once the Holy Spirit enters into equation.

 

[_Ryan_]

Yes, a lot because I screw up sometimes.

 

[Blain]

To all those that claim to be "Saved" and filled with the "Holy Ghost and the Spirit of God" I have a question:


Have you ever asked God for forgiveness AFTER you have been "Saved" and filled with the "Holy Ghost/Spirit"?


This is a simple question that requires only a yes or no reply.



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yes i have many times because even though i am saved i always screw up, and being filled with theholy spirit is great but we cant always rely on that we have to be strong and loving even when we are not filled with him

 

[Trax]

This is not a trick question......and of course there is a point to it being asked.



I am curious to know which law it is that you are asking to be forgiven of....if those that claim to be saved feel they are no longer under the law?

Just what do you mean when you claim you are not under God's laws...yet ask God for forgiveness?



It is obvious that you recognize you have trespassed a law of God otherwise you would not ask God for forgiveness.

By asking for forgiveness you also acknowledge the fact that there are yet laws of God that have NOT all been nailed to His cross.


So again......just what laws do those who claim to be filled with the "Holy Ghost/Spirit", but still ask to be forgiven, consider they are no longer under?


.

You see, I told my dad I was sorry, because I didn't want the alternative. Either case, I never stopped
being his son. I would either change my ways, or get an incentive to change my ways. The same
is with God the Father. Even though the saved is under grace, one step leads to another and then
the person is backsliden. Since the saved person never repented, he/she gets the incentive option.
It saves the saved person a lot of time and trouble, to ask forgiveness, and nip the backsliding
in the bud. It isn't a case about one's salvation, but discipline.