atheists

[Cycel]

hes human. he doesnt know. he has theorys.

Imperfect, pointing out that Darwin is human is not really an argument against evolution.

i would quote scripture, but you being an atheist, that doesnt mean much to you.

Well, that would be correct, usually, but all the same if you have a passage that you think particularly related to the topic under discussion it might be worth sharing. I don't necessarily dismiss biblical passages out-of-hand though my interpretation might sometimes seem a little strange to you.

and his evidence will be old within the next year or so and scrapped for a new theory based on "new evidence"... the truth dont change, brother. science theorys change like the seasons. this is a fact.

You do know that Darwin published Origin of Species in 1859? Perhaps you are waiting for it to be tossed out, but don't hold your breath. It's been here for more than 150 years.

 

[Imperfect]

Imperfect, pointing out that Darwin is human is not really an argument against evolution.


Well, that would be correct, usually, but all the same if you have a passage that you think particularly related to the topic under discussion it might be worth sharing. I don't necessarily dismiss biblical passages out-of-hand though my interpretation might sometimes seem a little strange to you.



You do know that Darwin published Origin of Species in 1859? Perhaps you are waiting for it to be tossed out, but don't hold your breath. It's been here for more than 150 years.

and the "facts" of evolution are constantly evolving.. old theorys tossed out, new theories are born, then those are tossed out and the cycle continues.

but 150 years, thats cute. christianity has been here for a couple thousand.

 

[CoooCaw]

When I set down to play a game of chess for the first time with someone new I often know within the first couple of moves whether that person understands anything about the game beyond the basic rules. If you're familiar with chess you will know what I mean. So too when discussing evolution certain questions give away a great deal about the questioner's level of knowledge. This opening move tells me evolution is not your game. Would you agree?


Well then, just one should suffice: the gene that permits the digestion of lactose.

adam was able to digest lactose

some people have devolved as a result of the fall so they are no longer able

as for a missing link; i am still waiting, I am hoping you will bring up the subject of lucy

your serve

 

[Red_Tory]

adam was able to digest lactose

How do you know this?

 

[CoooCaw]

How do you know this?

seriously???

we are all mammals!!!!!!

it is reasonable to assume that Eve BREAST FED cain and able

lactose intollerance is the capacity to digest milk

from an evolutionism perspective a lactose tolerant reptile might evolve into a mammal

any lactose intolerant mammal could only have degenerated from the above

 

[Tethered]

adam was able to digest lactose

some people have devolved as a result of the fall so they are no longer able

as for a missing link; i am still waiting, I am hoping you will bring up the subject of lucy

your serve

Does lucy disprove the theory of evolution?

 

[CoooCaw]

Does lucy disprove the theory of evolution?

lucy disproves the theory of academic honesty

 

[storm09]

To deny the existance of God is foolish.

Why do atheists get angry when we try to prove God existance? It's because we are ANNOYING

At times I feel that us christians should kickback when it comes to proving the existance of God. God is well capable to defend Himself, if He created the universe with only His breath then He is able to prove Himself. Are we not made from dust? so tell me, if you were in God situation where he is the creator of ze universe whereas human beings is lowly and created from dust, don't you think its pointless to God to prove His existance to us? don't you think He laughs at the atheist when she/he screams prove yourself? lol seriously? it is absurd to think we can order God of such things, I'm only saying these things from my own understanding, I dont speak on behalf of all christians for we are entitled to our own opinions.

People only prove themselves to others to redeem their fallen reputation

God is Spirit He need not to redeem Himself because He is perfection

God will not prove Himself to others JUST because of doubt in His existance

To deny the existance of God is foolish

 

[Tethered]

lucy disproves the theory of academic honesty

At the level of the few, or systemic? Can academic methodology validate claims at all?

 

[CoooCaw]

At the level of the few, or systemic? Can academic methodology validate claims at all?

she claims to be a missing link but her genesis is very dodgy indeed

 

[Tethered]

*quick google search*
Was on view at "Lucy has been open at Discovery Times Square Exposition, a new facility located in New York City, since June 24, 2009. The Australopithecus afarensiswas on display until October 25, 2009"
"'Lucy' comes home: Ethiopia celebrates iconic fossil - Times LIVE"

Lucy (A.afarensis) still considered a genuine skeleton, not considered a direct ancestor (not a missing link), although still a bipedal ape

First claim of fraud appears to be by Tom Willis (1987), accusing Donald of combining fossils to create 'lucy'; photos of the two seperate fossil findings of A.afarensis are distributed by Johnson and Edley (1981) deny the accusation.

 

[Starcrash]

So then why aren't you hanging out at agnosticatheistchat.com?
I would never go into a forum of people who I have nothing in common with.
To do so and actively post makes you basically just a rabble-rouser. No?

I do actively visit TheThinkingAtheist.com forums, but for the most part it's an echo chamber -- it's filled with atheists talking to atheists and there's rarely an outside perspective. I personally try to take an objective position whenever possible, so I often argue the Christian point-of-view, which tends to make me a pariah in that context.

Are you arguing that "being a rabble-rouser" is a bad thing? Are you arguing that one ought to "avoid people that they have nothing in common with"? It seems that I ought to be asking you why you don't frequent atheist forums. Why aren't you hanging out with your enemy? If only I could cite some reason for you to do so...

 

[Starcrash]

you see christianity as a religion because you are not of faith. you are a atheist.

so "by definition", atheism is your religion. do you consider yourself religious?

I see Christianity as a religion because it is one, by definition. I cited it from a dictionary and everything. It has nothing to do with bias -- it's true whether or not I'm an atheist. You may call it a "philosophy" or a "relationship", and it could be these things, but there's no reason that it couldn't be a "religion and a philosophy" or a "religion and a relationship". These ideas aren't mutually exclusive; it doesn't have to be one or the other.

Atheism is not a religion by definition, because atheism is not a "belief in a god or gods"... it is in fact the opposite, a "lack of belief in a god or gods". Atheism and theism are antonyms (opposites). But it's so incredibly silly that you're making the argument that your theism is not a religion but my atheism is. If you can't be reasoned with, then continue to hold this belief that religion means whatever you want it to mean. If you actually want to convince somebody else of your claims, then you'll have to present evidence outside of "I say it's true, so just believe me".

 

[Kerry]

True christianity is not a religion. All religions are works based. In other words rewards are earned. In true christianity, salvation is a free gift and cannot be earned, baptism in the Holy Spirit is a free gift, righteousness is a free gift. The only requirement is that we ask in faith. True christianity is a relationship and not a religion.

 

[Bryancampbell]

Why I hate religion but love Jesus...

What if I told you Jesus came to abolish religion
What if I told you voting Republican really wasn't His mission?
What if I told you republican doesn't automatically mean Christian
And just because you call some people blind doesn't automatically give you vision


I mean if religion is so great, why has it started so many wars
Why does it build huge churches, but fails to feed the poor
Tells single moms God doesn't love them if they've ever had a divorce
But in the Old Testament, God actually calls religious people whores


Religion might preach grace, but another thing they practice
Tend to ridicule God's people, they did it to John The Baptist
They can't fix their problems, and so they just mask it
Not realizing religion's like spraying perfume on a casket
See the problem with religion, is it never gets to the core
It's just behavior modification, like a long list of chores
Like let's dress up the outside make it look nice and neat
But it's funny that's what they use to do to mummies while the corpse rots underneath


Now I ain't judging, I'm just saying quit putting on a fake look
Cause there's a problem if people only know you're a Christian by your Facebook
I mean in every other aspect of life, you know that logic's unworthy
It's like saying you play for the Lakers just because you bought a jersey
You see this was me too, but no one seemed to be on to me
Acting like a church kid, while addicted to pornography
See on Sunday I'd go to church, but Saturday getting faded
Acting if I was simply created just to have sex and get wasted
See I spent my whole life building this facade of neatness
But now that I know Jesus, I boast in my weakness


Because if grace is water, then the church should be an ocean
It's not a museum for good people, it's a hospital for the broken
Which means I don't have to hide my failure, I don't have to hide my sin
Because it doesn't depend on me it depends on him
See because when I was God's enemy and certainly not a fan
He looked down and said I want, that, man
Which is why Jesus hated religion, and for it he called them fools
Don't you see so much better than just following some rules
Now let me clarify, I love the church, I love the Bible, and yes I believe in sin
But if Jesus came to your church would they actually let him in
See remember he was called a glutton, and a drunkard by religious men
But the son of God never supports self righteousness not now, not then


Now back to the point, one thing is vital to mention
How Jesus and religion are on opposite spectrum
See one's the work of God, but one's a man made invention
See one is the cure, but the other's the infection
See because religion says do, Jesus says done
Religion says slave, Jesus says son
Religion puts you in bondage, while Jesus sets you free
Religion makes you blind, but Jesus makes you see
And that's why religion and Jesus are two different clans


Religion is man searching for God, Christianity is God searching for man
Which is why salvation is freely mine, and forgiveness is my own
Not based on my merits but Jesus's obedience alone
Because he took the crown of thorns, and the blood dripped down his face
He took what we all deserved, I guess that's why you call it grace
And while being murdered he yelled
"Father forgive them they know not what they do."
Because when he was dangling on that cross, he was thinking of you
And he absorbed all of your sin, and buried it in the tomb
Which is why I'm kneeling at the cross, saying come on there's room
So for religion, no I hate it, in fact I literally resent it
Because when Jesus said it is finished, I believe he meant it.

- by Jefferson Bethke

I hate religion but love Jesus

 

[CoooCaw]

beware the tea party

Why I hate religion but love Jesus...

What if I told you Jesus came to abolish religion
What if I told you voting Republican really wasn't His mission?
What if I told you republican doesn't automatically mean Christian
And just because you call some people blind doesn't automatically give you vision


I mean if religion is so great, why has it started so many wars
Why does it build huge churches, but fails to feed the poor
Tells single moms God doesn't love them if they've ever had a divorce
But in the Old Testament, God actually calls religious people whores


Religion might preach grace, but another thing they practice
Tend to ridicule God's people, they did it to John The Baptist
They can't fix their problems, and so they just mask it
Not realizing religion's like spraying perfume on a casket
See the problem with religion, is it never gets to the core
It's just behavior modification, like a long list of chores
Like let's dress up the outside make it look nice and neat
But it's funny that's what they use to do to mummies while the corpse rots underneath


Now I ain't judging, I'm just saying quit putting on a fake look
Cause there's a problem if people only know you're a Christian by your Facebook
I mean in every other aspect of life, you know that logic's unworthy
It's like saying you play for the Lakers just because you bought a jersey
You see this was me too, but no one seemed to be on to me
Acting like a church kid, while addicted to pornography
See on Sunday I'd go to church, but Saturday getting faded
Acting if I was simply created just to have sex and get wasted
See I spent my whole life building this facade of neatness
But now that I know Jesus, I boast in my weakness


Because if grace is water, then the church should be an ocean
It's not a museum for good people, it's a hospital for the broken
Which means I don't have to hide my failure, I don't have to hide my sin
Because it doesn't depend on me it depends on him
See because when I was God's enemy and certainly not a fan
He looked down and said I want, that, man
Which is why Jesus hated religion, and for it he called them fools
Don't you see so much better than just following some rules
Now let me clarify, I love the church, I love the Bible, and yes I believe in sin
But if Jesus came to your church would they actually let him in
See remember he was called a glutton, and a drunkard by religious men
But the son of God never supports self righteousness not now, not then


Now back to the point, one thing is vital to mention
How Jesus and religion are on opposite spectrum
See one's the work of God, but one's a man made invention
See one is the cure, but the other's the infection
See because religion says do, Jesus says done
Religion says slave, Jesus says son
Religion puts you in bondage, while Jesus sets you free
Religion makes you blind, but Jesus makes you see
And that's why religion and Jesus are two different clans


Religion is man searching for God, Christianity is God searching for man
Which is why salvation is freely mine, and forgiveness is my own
Not based on my merits but Jesus's obedience alone
Because he took the crown of thorns, and the blood dripped down his face
He took what we all deserved, I guess that's why you call it grace
And while being murdered he yelled
"Father forgive them they know not what they do."
Because when he was dangling on that cross, he was thinking of you
And he absorbed all of your sin, and buried it in the tomb
Which is why I'm kneeling at the cross, saying come on there's room
So for religion, no I hate it, in fact I literally resent it
Because when Jesus said it is finished, I believe he meant it.

- by Jefferson Bethke

I hate religion but love Jesus

 

[APebbleThrown]

I think you might want to crawl back into your shoe box, I for one Know for CERTAIN that God exists. What bible do you read? The Apostles met Jesus who is God and Showed them. Does God need to hit you in the head with a brick before you'll know for certain?

Children also Know for CERTAIN that Santa Clause exists.

 

[Grey]

True christianity is not a religion. All religions are works based. In other words rewards are earned. In true christianity, salvation is a free gift and cannot be earned, baptism in the Holy Spirit is a free gift, righteousness is a free gift. The only requirement is that we ask in faith. True christianity is a relationship and not a religion.

I guess atheism is a relationship with reality then.

 

[Cycel]

and the "facts" of evolution are constantly evolving.. old theorys tossed out, new theories are born, then those are tossed out and the cycle continues.

The theory of evolution has stood secure for more than 150 years. What you perceive as being tossed out might better be described as refinements of understanding.

Imagine you have a heavy 1000 page tome titled The Theory of Evolution. In the last 150 years the book has not been replaced but modifications, refinements and additions have been made to the text. For example, in Darwin's time the book had no chapter titled Genetics. That, in itself, has been a huge addition. As we have learned more about genetics some of the earlier assumptions had to be re-evaluated. So, for example, when the double helix was discovered ideas on inheritance and the role of genes completely transformed scientific understanding. Old lines of research and hypotheses that with them were simply abandoned. Truly it is hard to imagine that anyone might adopt the view that change is a sign of ineptitude.

Far from being a weakness accumulation of data that strengthens or overturns hypotheses is a good thing. There has never been a field of scientific knowledge that has come into existence fully formed. From alchemy arose chemistry, from astrology arose astronomy, from natural philosophy arose geology and biology; and medicine, well that's been a long steep climb.

but 150 years, thats cute. christianity has been here for a couple thousand.

I dare say, your version of Christianity only arose after the Protestant Reformation. If we were to investigate further we might find the that the nuances of your beliefs are much more resent than that.

 

[Cycel]

adam was able to digest lactose

As Red_Tory points out this is not something you can pretend to know.

some people have devolved as a result of the fall so they are no longer able

Lactose intolerance is present in a large part of the human population, except in certain regions. As you probably know the enzyme lactase is necessary for digestion of lactose which is present in milk. Normally the body gradually loses the ability to produce this enzyme in about the fourth year of life. Probably for most of human history, prior to domestication of livestock, this was not a problem.

You assert the Adam and Eve produced lactase as adults but that the ability was lost after the fall as humans devolved. You have, however, no evidence for any of this. Of course you can assert anything you wish, but if we are to debate the issue your assertions need to be justified if anything is to be resolved.

The counter to your argument is that there are at least four separate populations of lactase producing adults in the world, and all four produce lactase by a different gene. The evolutionary argument is that four distinct mutations arose independently. Had lactose intolerant populations simply lost the ability we would expect the remaining populations all to carry the same gene passed down from Adam and Eve. The do not. Each of the four has a unique version of the gene.