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Yep, my experiences are similar. My wife insisted my son be circumcised. I watched as they strapped him down to a board and I stood outside the area while it was done. When I objected to the doctor not using pain meds he told me babies don't feel pain and he won't even have this memory. I listened to my son scream the entire time it was done. It still bothers me. Thank God people are not choosing this barbaric thing as much as it was.
The foreskin is not useless. It is very sensitive as it has more nerves. The inside fold of skin is very sensitive to touch as it is more like the inside of your eyelid. God did not make a mistake by including the foreskin! Yet some claim circumcision is done to avoid an infection and STD's. Well if you are having sex like God wants us to you can avoid STD's. To avoid an infection, simply wash with soap on the external skin and you are good.
What is not talked about is the botched circumcisions. This means the amputation of the head of the penis due to being cut off or burned so badly it is no longer viable.
Circumcision is completely barbaric, useless form of mutilation which has no medical benefit. If a person is Jewish, then have at it, otherwise, it should illegal.
The foreskin is not useless. It is very sensitive as it has more nerves. The inside fold of skin is very sensitive to touch as it is more like the inside of your eyelid. God did not make a mistake by including the foreskin! Yet some claim circumcision is done to avoid an infection and STD's. Well if you are having sex like God wants us to you can avoid STD's. To avoid an infection, simply wash with soap on the external skin and you are good.
What is not talked about is the botched circumcisions. This means the amputation of the head of the penis due to being cut off or burned so badly it is no longer viable.
Circumcision is completely barbaric, useless form of mutilation which has no medical benefit. If a person is Jewish, then have at it, otherwise, it should illegal.
Brother dan, that's why i'm so greatful that i rebelled and went into the world when my father died, because i could've simply just adopted a church and hide in a church doctrine, or when my thirst for God came i could've simply run to a church and ask a pastor why this is happening but nope i did not go and listen to what man had to say, did not run to a church creed i ran straight to God himself, let his word be truth and everyone else a lie, and that is where i received my new birth from God, and that is where my understanding came from, no one teached me this i didn't learn any of this from a church creed, it's the holy spirit bearing record to me what is the truth, it's the same spirit that was in Jesus and in the Apostles why would he not understand the very bible he wrote? as God as my witness this is the truth, and we all have to appear before the white throne judgement, you will know that this is the truth
This is what I see in the multitude of law vs. grace, law is abolished, “juaizers’”, Sabbath, laws we need to keep now, circumcision, etc. posts on the many threads dealing with those subjects as well as other threads where an argument of such can be slipped in and derail an otherwise edifying thread, is always repeating the same arguments against the value and purpose of the Old Testament law over and over, a dreadful misunderstanding of what it means to be in Covenant with God, and willful misinterpretation of other’s posts by not thoroughly reading what they say or just plain loving to argue.
There is a verse that illustrates this situation and describes these people. It is:
[h=1]2 Timothy 3:7 (NAS) “always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”[/h](CJB – the version condemned by those who consider the law abolished) “ who are always learning but never able to come to full knowledge of the truth.”
(And the old standby KJV) “ Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
So regardless of which translation you prefer, it isn’t a complimentary picture of those individuals.
There is a verse that illustrates this situation and describes these people. It is:
[h=1]2 Timothy 3:7 (NAS) “always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”[/h](CJB – the version condemned by those who consider the law abolished) “ who are always learning but never able to come to full knowledge of the truth.”
(And the old standby KJV) “ Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
So regardless of which translation you prefer, it isn’t a complimentary picture of those individuals.
I see a dreadful misunderstanding of what it means to be in the New Covenant (Lk 22:20) of grace
with God, not based on works, but on true saving faith.
However, true saving faith obeys, but the New Covenant is not predicated on
true faith's inherent obedience, but only on the faith itself.
No obedience means no true saving faith and, therefore, one is not really in the New Covenant,
because it is predicated on true saving faith.
with God, not based on works, but on true saving faith.
However, true saving faith obeys, but the New Covenant is not predicated on
true faith's inherent obedience, but only on the faith itself.
No obedience means no true saving faith and, therefore, one is not really in the New Covenant,
because it is predicated on true saving faith.
I recently studied what it means to be in Covenant with God and it was fascinating indeed. However, even though what I learned is posted in the forum for others to be edified, it won’t interest you until you are willing to learn new things from God.
How I wish you could see the whole picture. It is obvious that you think you cannot learn from anyone else regarding things of God. Until you find the humility we as real Christians are supposed to have and are willing to hear teaching as did the Bereans and do as they did, meaning search the scriptures to see if they had been taught truth or not, you will remain “stalled out” and not gain the vital wisdom we should all be attaining to. I say this not only to you but to all who think they know it all on any topic, not just those mentioned above.
God wants all of his children to grow in wisdom as well as knowledge. Isaiah says, “To whom would He teach knowledge, And to whom would He interpret the message? Those just weaned from milk? Those just taken from the breast? "For He says, 'Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there.' Indeed, He will speak to this people Through stammering lips and a foreign tongue, He who said to them, "Here is rest, give rest to the weary," And, "Here is repose," but they would not listen. So the word of the LORD to them will be, “Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there," That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive.” Isaiah 28:9-13
Everyone of us has read the scriptures telling us that we are to avoid discussions that cause division and strife and to be at peace with all men as much as is possible. Since the only way to be at peace with people who refuse to learn and get arrogant, belligerent, overbearing and/or egotistical refusing to humbly and peacefully discuss scripture and the principles therein, is to stay away. Again, I reiterate - I say this not only to you but to all who think they know it all on any topic, not just those mentioned above.
I let God’s Word speak as I close this post and cleave to His peace. Rightfully, we need to take the entire paragraph in order to get a fair determination of the context.
2 Timothy 3:6-13 (NAS) Avoid such men as these. 6 For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Justas Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of depraved mind, rejected in regard to the faith. 9 But they will not make further progress; for their folly will be obvious to all, just as Jannes's and Jambres's folly was also. 10 Now you followed my teaching, conduct, purpose, faith, patience, love, perseverance, 11 persecutions, and sufferings, such as happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium and at Lystra ; what persecutions I endured, and out of them all the Lord rescued me! 12 Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. 13 But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.
How I wish you could see the whole picture. It is obvious that you think you cannot learn from anyone else regarding things of God. Until you find the humility we as real Christians are supposed to have and are willing to hear teaching as did the Bereans and do as they did, meaning search the scriptures to see if they had been taught truth or not, you will remain “stalled out” and not gain the vital wisdom we should all be attaining to. I say this not only to you but to all who think they know it all on any topic, not just those mentioned above.
God wants all of his children to grow in wisdom as well as knowledge. Isaiah says, “To whom would He teach knowledge, And to whom would He interpret the message? Those just weaned from milk? Those just taken from the breast? "For He says, 'Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there.' Indeed, He will speak to this people Through stammering lips and a foreign tongue, He who said to them, "Here is rest, give rest to the weary," And, "Here is repose," but they would not listen. So the word of the LORD to them will be, “Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there," That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive.” Isaiah 28:9-13
Everyone of us has read the scriptures telling us that we are to avoid discussions that cause division and strife and to be at peace with all men as much as is possible. Since the only way to be at peace with people who refuse to learn and get arrogant, belligerent, overbearing and/or egotistical refusing to humbly and peacefully discuss scripture and the principles therein, is to stay away. Again, I reiterate - I say this not only to you but to all who think they know it all on any topic, not just those mentioned above.
I let God’s Word speak as I close this post and cleave to His peace. Rightfully, we need to take the entire paragraph in order to get a fair determination of the context.
2 Timothy 3:6-13 (NAS) Avoid such men as these. 6 For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Justas Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of depraved mind, rejected in regard to the faith. 9 But they will not make further progress; for their folly will be obvious to all, just as Jannes's and Jambres's folly was also. 10 Now you followed my teaching, conduct, purpose, faith, patience, love, perseverance, 11 persecutions, and sufferings, such as happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium and at Lystra ; what persecutions I endured, and out of them all the Lord rescued me! 12 Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. 13 But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.
1) That sounds like you have nothing with which to address my post.
2) Smooth talk with no demonstration to support your assertion is without merit.
3) Jannes and Jambres are a reference to Pharoah's pagan court magicians.
4) Paul is speaking of reprobate (Gr: adokimos) God rejectors, he is not speaking of believers.
5) It's hard to take you seriously, nor can there be any receiving of new things from you,
when you so misunderstand, and are so misinformed regarding, the word of God.
2) Smooth talk with no demonstration to support your assertion is without merit.
3) Jannes and Jambres are a reference to Pharoah's pagan court magicians.
4) Paul is speaking of reprobate (Gr: adokimos) God rejectors, he is not speaking of believers.
5) It's hard to take you seriously, nor can there be any receiving of new things from you,
when you so misunderstand, and are so misinformed regarding, the word of God.
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interest things happen today, my real life adventist friends, supposely my brothers... we fellowship together but soon i confronted them with their beliefs and show them that we are under grace and not law, they got so offended at me, that they stop talked to me... this thing is so deep, i told them Ellen white is their bible and 10 commandments is there God/grace, they got even more offended and said i don't care what you say your not gonna change my mind, so i said let the blind lead the blind and just left, is that the spirit of Christ? is that really the spirit of christ to say these things? i even pleaded with them to have a 1 on 1 over the past few months but as scriptures were brought fought saying what they believe in is wrong they keep getting offended, if your right why can't any of you people here get solid facts to back up what you believe in from the bible, you can't. all i have to say is let the blind lead the blind they both fall into a ditch, i feel so sad though, i mean they use to help me out would talk to them as my brothers we would encourage each other but as this came up, i got persecuted for standing up for God's word, and these people really think that is the spirit of Christ within them..
Reminds me when I show people this and they run:
Yahshua says these are the greatest Commandments, NOT THE ONLY! If that werent enough He clearly states all the Law hang on these 2.
Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
Shaul clearly understands what the Messiah means and explains it here:
Romans 13:9, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself."
All as in even the ones he didn't list...
Try breaking Leviticus 19:17 and still be loving your neighbor according to Messiah.
And try breaking the 4th Commandment and still be loving Yahweh.
Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."
Mattithyah 19:17-21, "But He said to him: Why do you question Me about righteousness? There is only One Who is the standard of perfection, and that is Yahweh; so if you would enter into life, keep the 1Laws of Yahweh. He then asked Yahshua; Which ones? Yahshua said: You shall not murder. you shall not ccommit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false testimony. Honor your father and mother, and; You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The young man said to Him; All these things I have kept from my youth up; what do I yet lack? Yahshua said to him: If you want to come to the perfection, go and sell of what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and you will be walking in Yahweh's ways, and following Me."
Deuteronomy 10:12-13, "And now, O Israyl, what does Yahweh your Father require of you, but to reverence Yahweh your Father by walking in all His ways, by loving Him, by serving Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul. By keeping the Laws of Yahweh, with His statutes, which I command you this day, so that you may be blessed?"
1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."
Mattithyah 22:37, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might."
1 Corinthians 2:9, "But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which Yahweh has prepared for those who love Him."
Yahshua says these are the greatest Commandments, NOT THE ONLY! If that werent enough He clearly states all the Law hang on these 2.
Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
Shaul clearly understands what the Messiah means and explains it here:
Romans 13:9, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself."
All as in even the ones he didn't list...
Try breaking Leviticus 19:17 and still be loving your neighbor according to Messiah.
And try breaking the 4th Commandment and still be loving Yahweh.
Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."
Mattithyah 19:17-21, "But He said to him: Why do you question Me about righteousness? There is only One Who is the standard of perfection, and that is Yahweh; so if you would enter into life, keep the 1Laws of Yahweh. He then asked Yahshua; Which ones? Yahshua said: You shall not murder. you shall not ccommit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false testimony. Honor your father and mother, and; You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The young man said to Him; All these things I have kept from my youth up; what do I yet lack? Yahshua said to him: If you want to come to the perfection, go and sell of what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and you will be walking in Yahweh's ways, and following Me."
Deuteronomy 10:12-13, "And now, O Israyl, what does Yahweh your Father require of you, but to reverence Yahweh your Father by walking in all His ways, by loving Him, by serving Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul. By keeping the Laws of Yahweh, with His statutes, which I command you this day, so that you may be blessed?"
1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."
Mattithyah 22:37, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might."
1 Corinthians 2:9, "But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which Yahweh has prepared for those who love Him."
Or this, people really hate this:
Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"
the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law
Definition: usage, custom, law; in NT: of law in general, plur: of divine laws; of a force or influence impelling to action; of the Mosaic law; meton: of the books which contain the law, the Pentateuch, the Old Testament scriptures in general.
Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."
iniquity is:#0458 ἀνομία anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness
Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
From G0459; illegality, that is, violation of law or (generally) wickedness:—iniquity, X transgress (-ion of) the law, unrighteousness.
Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament) #458.
α᾿νομι´α anomia; from 459; lawlessness:— lawless deed, lawless deeds, lawlessness
FROM:
#0459 ἄνομος anomos {an'-om-os} from G0001 (as a negative particle) and G3551; TDNT - 4:1086,646; adj
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) destitute of (the Mosaic) law
1a) of the Gentiles
2) departing from the law, a violator of the law, lawless, wicked
Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
From G0001 (as a negative particle) and G3551; lawless, that is, (negatively) not subject to (the Jewish) law; (by implication a Gentile), or (positively) wicked:— without law, lawless, transgressor, unlawful, wicked.
Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament) #459.
α῎νομος anomos; from 1 (as a neg. pref.) and 3551; lawless, without law:— godless men, lawless, lawless one, transgressors, without the law, without law, without law.
Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"
the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law
Definition: usage, custom, law; in NT: of law in general, plur: of divine laws; of a force or influence impelling to action; of the Mosaic law; meton: of the books which contain the law, the Pentateuch, the Old Testament scriptures in general.
Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."
iniquity is:#0458 ἀνομία anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness
Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
From G0459; illegality, that is, violation of law or (generally) wickedness:—iniquity, X transgress (-ion of) the law, unrighteousness.
Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament) #458.
α᾿νομι´α anomia; from 459; lawlessness:— lawless deed, lawless deeds, lawlessness
FROM:
#0459 ἄνομος anomos {an'-om-os} from G0001 (as a negative particle) and G3551; TDNT - 4:1086,646; adj
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) destitute of (the Mosaic) law
1a) of the Gentiles
2) departing from the law, a violator of the law, lawless, wicked
Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
From G0001 (as a negative particle) and G3551; lawless, that is, (negatively) not subject to (the Jewish) law; (by implication a Gentile), or (positively) wicked:— without law, lawless, transgressor, unlawful, wicked.
Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament) #459.
α῎νομος anomos; from 1 (as a neg. pref.) and 3551; lawless, without law:— godless men, lawless, lawless one, transgressors, without the law, without law, without law.
also this:
Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."
Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."
1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.
Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."
1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.
Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."
Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."
Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."
1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.
Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."
1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.
Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."