Baptism Essential to Salvation

[homwardbound]

None of these passages promises anyone today baptism with the Holy Spirit. In Mt 3:11, no one can make themselves be the either of the pronouns "you" when it does not refer to them.

I am so sorry and am praying for you, for God to reveal God's love and Mercy to you, being in need to see truth that sets one free from any and all errors of flesh and blood

John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Today this new life is completed for all that believe and God reveals this to them in Spirit and truth, Love you deeply

 

[homwardbound]

Seabass is correct , Patnubay. Good to see someone sincerely seeking the truth.

Tell me what does it matter, whether under law or not? This man believed God and was saved the same as all Old Testament Saints
Now that is truth, over manipulating truth

 

[homwardbound]

We are all sinners. I don't even know what you're talking about. I think you've been listening to Atwood too much.

From God's view I am not viewed any longer as a sinner thanks to Christ and is where I am at rest at, sorry you are not yet, your choice, do as you wish and remained unsaved and scathed

 

[Alligator]

E.g., can you give me a scripture or two that says baptism was for the remission of sins in the Old Testament ? Also, please see Romans 6:3–6 which says we are buried with Christ into baptism and that it represents the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. This could not have been the case in the Old Testament since Christ had not even been born. Thanks

I can;t give you a passage of scripture which says water baptism is for remmision of sin anywhere. So why would it matter of it is shown in the OT.

As in the OT. Water baptism is a prefigure of what really saves, the washing of the HS.

Arron and his sons were washed in the jordan by moses, a symbol of what God would do for us after the death of Christ.



No my friend, It says God baptized me into Christ. Man can not baptize me into Christ only God does.

It is a huge assumption that the word baptize means in water, It does not always mean water, the thing we are babptized into is shown in romans 6. The death and burial of Christ.

Not water.

If you want to be baptized in water, Feel free. I did in obedience to the command of Christ,

But I will never base my salvation on an immersion in water, I will base it and trust god because he himself baptized me into the death, burial and body of Christ

Thats why I KNOW I am saved, it is not based on my work, but Gods completed work, on the cross. and in my life. It is not a defiled salvation, it is a pure salvation. completed fact.

A simple verse to see to see as you say EG, and thanks hope this helps
Acts 1:5
For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Then came what the Pentecost, the true Baptism, of Spirit and truth, wow. I see the difference as you do as well
Thanks

when he said ye would be baptized with the Holy Ghost, he was talking to the apostles not all of mankind.

 

[homwardbound]

I agree that water baptism ALONE cannot save you, but neither will Spirit baptism ALONE. Why? Because Jesus commanded us to have BOTH! See John 3:5. You cannot get around this. God that was manifest in the flesh cannot lie. And he said that if you are not born of both the WATER and the SPIRIT you are NOT getting into heaven. There are a lot of people on here that seem to think they will prove him wrong but....we shall see.

Not trying to get around anything, just putting things in the proper place to the Bottom line of it all, no matter how many Mathematical formulas one or anyone put in place to steal. kill and destroy.
For nothing will or can separate us from the Love of God who took on the unbelief of the world and while we all were yet failures died for us to give us new life in Spirit and truth by the resurrected Christ, where one goes from death to life

Godjustloveyou, get it I pray and then we react with thanksgiving and praise and do as newspaper persons telling this love that no man can fathom to be able to do in flesh.
1 cor 13:4-7 only God can do this for you in you and through you, and it all begins at belief, and remain steadfast in this belief as in col. 1:21-23

 

[homwardbound]

I agree that water baptism ALONE cannot save you, but neither will Spirit baptism ALONE. Why? Because Jesus commanded us to have BOTH! See John 3:5. You cannot get around this. God that was manifest in the flesh cannot lie. And he said that if you are not born of both the WATER and the SPIRIT you are NOT getting into heaven. There are a lot of people on here that seem to think they will prove him wrong but....we shall see.

Only in Spirit and truth can one truly see

 

[Alligator]

The only way to salvation is through Christ, wouldn't you agree? How could the Old Testament characters be saved the same way as we are today by believing in Christ who was still hundreds of years from coming to earth with his Gospel. In the Old Testament, animal sacrifices were required to be made year after year. Do we want to go back to that? No, we are not saved in the same way today as Abraham was because Abraham had to keep the law just like everybody else.

 

[Alligator]

From God's view I am not viewed any longer as a sinner thanks to Christ and is where I am at rest at, sorry you are not yet, your choice, do as you wish and remained unsaved and scathed

first John 1:8 says if we say we have no sin we make him a liar. You do sin just like everybody else, you may not willfully and or habitually sin but occasional sin does come into,to your life.

 

[SeaBass]

I am so sorry and am praying for you, for God to reveal God's love and Mercy to you, being in need to see truth that sets one free from any and all errors of flesh and blood

John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Today this new life is completed for all that believe and God reveals this to them in Spirit and truth, Love you deeply

Prove to me that the pronouns "you" in Mt 3:11 refer to you.

 

[posthuman]

just curious -- has anyone in this thread not been baptized?

 

[newbirth]

The only way to salvation is through Christ, wouldn't you agree? How could the Old Testament characters be saved the same way as we are today by believing in Christ who was still hundreds of years from coming to earth with his Gospel. In the Old Testament, animal sacrifices were required to be made year after year. Do we want to go back to that? No, we are not saved in the same way today as Abraham was because Abraham had to keep the law just like everybody else.

Seem like Christ has been left out of salvation ...since men are saying They believe but they will not obey. They don't even know Christ went to the grave to preach the gospel to the dead...

[SUP]5 [/SUP]but they will give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For this is why the gospel was preached even to those who are dead, that though judged in the flesh the way people are, they might live in the spirit the way God does.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]The end of all things is at hand; therefore be self-controlled and sober-minded for the sake of your prayers.

 

[posthuman]

if baptism is necessary for salvation, and a man who has believed and confessed that Jesus is Lord isn't yet saved,

is it terribly irresponsible for churches to have altar calls at the end of sermons, see people turn to Christ, and then let them go home that day without being baptized?
scheduling a public baptism for weeks or even months from the time of conversion?

should street evangelists carry a bucket of water around with them or a fire-hose?

if salvation depends not just on Christ, but Christ + ritual washing with water, shouldn't anyone who is ready to preach the Good News also have water on hand? otherwise it seems to me like evangelists are leaving a lot of 'jobs half-done' (setting aside the 'make disciples of all nations' bit for a moment).

 

[SeaBass]

if baptism is necessary for salvation, and a man who has believed and confessed that Jesus is Lord isn't yet saved,

is it terribly irresponsible for churches to have altar calls at the end of sermons, see people turn to Christ, and then let them go home that day without being baptized?
scheduling a public baptism for weeks or even months from the time of conversion?

should street evangelists carry a bucket of water around with them or a fire-hose?

if salvation depends not just on Christ, but Christ + ritual washing with water, shouldn't anyone who is ready to preach the Good News also have water on hand? otherwise it seems to me like evangelists are leaving a lot of 'jobs half-done' (setting aside the 'make disciples of all nations' bit for a moment).

Read the incident of Phillip and the eunuch. Did Phillip carry water around with him?

 

[Billyd]

Please explain John 1:5 to me. I take it (using John 1:4 and John 1:6) to mean that Man must be born of his mother (water), and of the spirit (salvation). We are all born of the water, but we must be believe in Jesus as our Savior (then subject of John 3) to receive eternal life. If you ask me why we are baptized in water, I believe that it is a symbol of leaving our earthly life behind and entering our spiritual life. Should we be baptized? Yes? Does it Save us? No. There are too many scriptures where people are saved and it is the final act of Salvation, for it not to be important, but there are many that it is not done, thus it's not necessary. Do you honestly believe that a dip in water, or being splattered with water must be done to have eternal life? It is the shed blood of Jesus (Baptism in the Spirit), and that alone that saves us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am just now getting around to your post. Better late than never.

let me rephrase the question. I'm looking for a scripture anywhere that says baptism was necessary under the law of Moses.

you won;t find it, because the word baptize did not exist until the greek text was intetrpreted into the english language,

For some reason ( I will never figure this out or understand why) the interpretors did not translate the word, they transliterated it. Thus baptizo became baptize, Baptizmo became baptism, so on and so forth.

What is water baptism? It is man immersing us in water to signify cleansing. can we find this in the OT?

In fact, one of the interpretations of baptism in the NT is the OT ritual of washing. We see the first act of baptim being done by Moses.

Leviticus 8:6
Then Moses brought Aaron and his sons and washed them with water.

Now unless you think Moses took arron and his sons to the river, made them strip naked, Took a towel and some soap and washed them, Chances are (And I believe he did) He took them down and immersed them in the river, signifying they had been cleaned. From this time forward. ALL men from levi who were being consecrated as priests went through this ritual. It was for the benefit of all who witnessed it, That these men were being set apart as priests of God. It literally had no washing power. And no one was ever saved by it, but it was done.

where does it say that God baptized you into Christ? I'm not sure what you're getting at. Bible scholar F. F. Bruce says that a word or phrase is to be taken literally in Scripture unless the context shows it should be figurative. There is nothing in Romans 6:3-6 that gives the impression that it is figurative.

I am not taking rom 6 figuratively. I am taking it literally.

If we actually interpret the word baptizo, instead of use the unfortunate transliterated word. it literally says this.

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? [SUP]2 [/SUP]Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Or do you not know that as many of us as were immersed or placed into into Christ Jesus were immersed or placed into into His death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we were buried with Him through being immersed or placed into into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

You see the passage takes on a whole new meaning. I was placed into the death of Christ, I was placed into the burial of Christ, As Christ died, I also died and was buried in him

As for a verse which says I was baptized into Christ by God.

again using the translated word not the transliterated.


Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as were immersed or placed into into Christ have put on Christ.

and even another. Since I am baptized into the body of Christ. which is Christ himself


1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all immersed or placed into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

This tells us quite clearly, it was by the spirit, and we were made to drink (partake) of that spirit. this of course (doing as you said, and take ;literally and not figuratively( could be non other than God himself. The HS. We know this, because paul tells us in titus 3 5 it was the HS who washed us in the washing of regeneration.

Only Christ can administer Holy Spirit baptism. The baptism of the great commission, is obviously water. Man cannot administer Holy Spirit baptism so it could not have been Holy Spirit baptism that Jesus asked the Apostles to perform when he issued the great commission.

I agree 100 % here my friend. 100%

Understand I am not saying we do not receive the Holy Spirit. We all receive the Holy Spirit when we are baptized, just like they were on the day of Pentecost.(Acts 2:38), But that is not the same as Holy Spirit baptism.

you are right, the water itself does not save. But it's the act of obedience to God's word that saves us. Acts 22:16, Acts 2:38

Your right, Recieving the HS is not the same as baptism of the spirit. But as again we see in the OT sy,mbol of being made a priest. they were washed, then annointed. the washing came first. Moses (representing God) baptized arron and his family, then annointed them. The annointing is the act of the spirit coming in us. the baptism is the act of the spirit putting us into Christ (His death and burial, and his body) which cleanses us from all sin.

All a man can do is dunk you in water, he can not place you into the death burial and body of Christ, Only God can do this.

ps my friend, do not worry about taking along time, it is fine

 

[eternally-gratefull]

when he said ye would be baptized with the Holy Ghost, he was talking to the apostles not all of mankind.

he said alot to the apostles which also pertain to all who are saved.

Just because he spoke to them, does not mean everyone does not recieve it (the fact the gentiles recieved it proves this)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Seem like Christ has been left out of salvation ...since men are saying They believe but they will not obey. They don't even know Christ went to the grave to preach the gospel to the dead...

Who is not obeying, there you go with your false accusations again, Don;t you ever get sick of being shown to be a false accuser of people?

 

[Apostol2013]

No, the gospel does not teach "death-bed" salvation.

bit is permisible understanding what grace is but if one doesnt have time to be baptized then that would be a loss of grace due to disobedience grace will cover ypu as you learn truth but once to a full understanding of the truth and continuing not then it is a sin

 

[SeaBass]

Please explain John 1:5 to me. I take it (using John 1:4 and John 1:6) to mean that Man must be born of his mother (water), and of the spirit (salvation). We are all born of the water, but we must be believe in Jesus as our Savior (then subject of John 3) to receive eternal life. If you ask me why we are baptized in water, I believe that it is a symbol of leaving our earthly life behind and entering our spiritual life. Should we be baptized? Yes? Does it Save us? No. There are too many scriptures where people are saved and it is the final act of Salvation, for it not to be important, but there are many that it is not done, thus it's not necessary. Do you honestly believe that a dip in water, or being splattered with water must be done to have eternal life? It is the shed blood of Jesus (Baptism in the Spirit), and that alone that saves us.

Jn 3:5 water means literal water.....born of water being water baptism.


Jn 3:5-----------------spirit+++++++++++++water>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1Cor12:13-------------spirit+++++++++++++baptized>>>>>>in the body

With both verses having the same meaning, then 'born of water" of Jn 3:5 is equivalent to "baptized" of 1 Cor 12:13.
So "born of water" in Jn 3:5 has nothing to do with the natural birth no more than "baptized " of 1 Cor 12:13 has to do with the natural birth.


Acts 2:38 tells me water baptism is for the remission of sins/salvation not "...a symbol of leaving our earthly life behind..."


Rev 1:5 John said Christ washed us from our sins in His own blood
Jn 19:34 Christ shed His blood in His death.
Rom 6:3-6 one is water baptized into the death of Christ where His shed blood washes away sins

So water baptism saves because it is the point where Christ's blood washes away sins. 'Belief only' does not get one into the death of Christ.


----------------------------------------------------------------
You post: Should we be baptized? Yes

If water baptism is not necessary to being saved, then why should one be baptized?

 

[SeaBass]

bit is permisible understanding what grace is but if one doesnt have time to be baptized then that would be a loss of grace due to disobedience grace will cover ypu as you learn truth but once to a full understanding of the truth and continuing not then it is a sin

The problem here is if the anti-water baptism crowd think they can (1) get one saved on his death-bed WITHOUT being water baptized, then they will think (2) ANYONE can be saved whether on a death-bed or not WITHOUT being water baptized. So they are wrong on both counts.

Circumstances as death-beds do not change God's word.

An example I have used before, an atheist is on an airplane moments away from crashing into the ground. This atheist begins to think that there really is an after-life and a "Higher Power" but dies in the crash before knowing who or what to believe in. He would have come to believe God, but just did not have enough time.

So if the anti-water baptism crowd can get one on his death-bed saved without being water baptized, then why not get this atheist saved without believing? Is there a loss of grace for not allowing unbelievers to be saved?

Give me time and I can think up of all kinds of 'circumstances' by which we can change the bible to fit those circumstances. We would no longer need a bible to go by to show us the truth about salvation, we will have many man made circumstances to go by to show us how to be saved.