Baptism Essential to Salvation

[homwardbound]

The only way to salvation is through Christ, wouldn't you agree? How could the Old Testament characters be saved the same way as we are today by believing in Christ who was still hundreds of years from coming to earth with his Gospel. In the Old Testament, animal sacrifices were required to be made year after year. Do we want to go back to that? No, we are not saved in the same way today as Abraham was because Abraham had to keep the law just like everybody else.

Abraham was saved by Faith and had only one law put upon him, Circumcision, blood payment to be covered until the forth coming Christ that he put his Faith in
The Law of Moses was four hundred thirty years later, to show the people their need of salvation in Christ revealed many years later as even Job saw this in Job 19:25
Hebrews 11 clarifies this it is by Faith and blood friend is the payment as the sacrifice for sin since day one of the fall of Adam and Eve
Christ is the last payment of blood to all that beleive are set free and to be set free if they will continue in the Faith delivered them
Christ did it all. All that is needed for new life and Godliness to be done in us and through us, if we will stand in Faith and not be ill as the flesh we live in is and to this day still dies for it is unredeemed, and never will be perfect
Only God is in Spirit and truth. So where do you wish to live? In God by God's Spirit or continue in the Spirit of error that is manifested all over this world to steal, kill and destroy any one in its way

 

[homwardbound]

first John 1:8 says if we say we have no sin we make him a liar. You do sin just like everybody else, you may not willfully and or habitually sin but occasional sin does come into,to your life.

Never said "I" have no sin, or that i have never sinned or that I will never again.

I said I have received what God did for me and all the world at the cross for me and all, and I am overjoyed, elated and today have entered his courts by Christ with thanksgiving and praise as where King David was looking forward to this and had not yet been able to actually enter, but knew it was coming and today I am after this event that took place at the cross for all that believe to be brought unto new life in Spirit and truth by the resurrected Christ
Maybe, God willing God will reveal this to you, if you change your mind and decide to believe as you say you do, and yet show me from what I see you do not,
I am in prayer for you to come to the light that overcame and overcomes the darkness that once was in me, and I do not say this arrogantly, proudly or boastfully to you or anyone
Rather in humility and thankfully to God for doing and giving what I do not deserve and that is the new life in Spirit and truth by the resurrected Christ not the dead one that all seem to only focus on, and there is no new life in death, the life is in the resurrected Christ in Spirit and truth for God:

John 4:24 [Full Chapter]
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

Flesh is dead by Baptism of God by the Holy Spirit of truth (God) and thus held back alive by God's power, not any of ours

 

[homwardbound]

Prove to me that the pronouns "you" in Mt 3:11 refer to you.

I need prove nothing to you or anyone, God has done what God chose to do for us in Mercy to us all, for us to have the chance to be back alive as Adam was before the eating from that tree of death that came to all men through him
Today we have the eating of new life in Christ to be alive ion Spirit and truth, which eating of do you want to eat from life or death. self or servant to the most high? It is all done for you, so today choose whom you will beleive God or mankind?

Be a bond servant or a cold servant your choice and God will pick you up and set you free if you do beleive God and I trust God all in all to do God's work all in all to those that God knows who beleive or not
For many say they do worshiping with their lips and their hearts unfortunately are far away from him
Mercy over sacrifice, I do not know, you decide which is more important?

 

[homwardbound]

just curious -- has anyone in this thread not been baptized?

Well I am sure many here will say or are going to be or get water Baptized.
And in Acts Paul came across those that were water Baptized that all they knew was John's Baptism and had not heard of the Holy Ghost Baptism, and Paul laid hands on them and they received the new life in Spirit and truth
Which tells me their is no life new in water Baptism. Water Baptism is for those that want to be saved, want to do what is right by God, and is not new life yet in Spirit and truth from God the Father.
One can't see the kingdom without being born again? And water Baptism is not born again it is a good conscience between God and you
Unfortunately not used this way today? As a good conscience between God and you, I think it is good to get water Baptized and have been between God and me, and not for membership of any denomination or non denomination
For God and God only, between God and me only as you might see for you and God only. And on and on

 

[homwardbound]

Read the incident of Phillip and the eunuch. Did Phillip carry water around with him?

Straining out a gnat and swallowing the camel are we, okay then? love you anyway, this is what God did

Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us

Ready yet to ask Father for the new life he gives in Spirit and truth, ask in all honesty and God will perform waht God has done for you by Son in the resurrected Christ for you to have new life in Spirit and truth, dead to flesh sin

 

[homwardbound]

Please explain John 1:5 to me. I take it (using John 1:4 and John 1:6) to mean that Man must be born of his mother (water), and of the spirit (salvation). We are all born of the water, but we must be believe in Jesus as our Savior (then subject of John 3) to receive eternal life. If you ask me why we are baptized in water, I believe that it is a symbol of leaving our earthly life behind and entering our spiritual life. Should we be baptized? Yes? Does it Save us? No. There are too many scriptures where people are saved and it is the final act of Salvation, for it not to be important, but there are many that it is not done, thus it's not necessary. Do you honestly believe that a dip in water, or being splattered with water must be done to have eternal life? It is the shed blood of Jesus (Baptism in the Spirit), and that alone that saves us.

And Brother stand fast in this:

[h=1]Colossians 1:21-23New International Version (NIV)[/h][SUP]21 [/SUP]Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[SUP][a][/SUP] your evil behavior. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— [SUP]23 [/SUP]if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

 

[homwardbound]

Jn 3:5 water means literal water.....born of water being water baptism.


Jn 3:5-----------------spirit+++++++++++++water>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1Cor12:13-------------spirit+++++++++++++baptized>>>>>>in the body

With both verses having the same meaning, then 'born of water" of Jn 3:5 is equivalent to "baptized" of 1 Cor 12:13.
So "born of water" in Jn 3:5 has nothing to do with the natural birth no more than "baptized " of 1 Cor 12:13 has to do with the natural birth.


Acts 2:38 tells me water baptism is for the remission of sins/salvation not "...a symbol of leaving our earthly life behind..."


Rev 1:5 John said Christ washed us from our sins in His own blood
Jn 19:34 Christ shed His blood in His death.
Rom 6:3-6 one is water baptized into the death of Christ where His shed blood washes away sins

So water baptism saves because it is the point where Christ's blood washes away sins. 'Belief only' does not get one into the death of Christ.


----------------------------------------------------------------
You post: Should we be baptized? Yes

If water baptism is not necessary to being saved, then why should one be baptized?

For a good conscience between God and you the response to god for the free gift of life in Spirit and truth by the resurrected Christ for you and all

 

[SeaBass]

I need prove nothing to you or anyone, God has done what God chose to do for us in Mercy to us all, for us to have the chance to be back alive as Adam was before the eating from that tree of death that came to all men through him
Today we have the eating of new life in Christ to be alive ion Spirit and truth, which eating of do you want to eat from life or death. self or servant to the most high? It is all done for you, so today choose whom you will beleive God or mankind?

Be a bond servant or a cold servant your choice and God will pick you up and set you free if you do beleive God and I trust God all in all to do God's work all in all to those that God knows who beleive or not
For many say they do worshiping with their lips and their hearts unfortunately are far away from him
Mercy over sacrifice, I do not know, you decide which is more important?

So you are only assuming the pronouns "you" refer to you.

 

[homwardbound]

The water baptism is necessary for salvation , that is it the apostles taught it Jesus taught it even by example even being God He did it to show us the primary example and not just purely by example , many churches I seen baptizing people back to back but each and every person being baptized must be taught the reason of why they are doing it and the responsibility they are taking on with the free gift given and the new life we are to take on , it is necessary they are educated in true Christianity .

And who can do that but God himself

[h=1]Hebrews 8:11New International Version (NIV)[/h][SUP]11 [/SUP]No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.

 

[SeaBass]

1 John 5:5-8
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? [SUP]6 [/SUP]This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For there are three that testify: [SUP]8 [/SUP]the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

Ephesians 4:1-7
Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, [SUP]2 [/SUP]with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, [SUP]3 [/SUP]being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. [SUP]4 [/SUP]There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling;[SUP]5 [/SUP]one Lord, one faith, one baptism, [SUP]6 [/SUP]one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.[SUP]7 [/SUP]But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore it says,
“When He ascended on high,
He led captive a host of captives,
And He gave gifts to men.”

John 3:5
Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

Jesus does not say "you" here. He says "No one" can enter unless they are born of water and the Spirit. I definitely would not discourage anyone from being baptized in water, but it is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that saves. The New Testament records people receiving the Holy Spirit before, after, and during water baptism. But we did receive the example of being baptized in water and therefore should follow that example.

I will also mention the fact that Jesus told Pilate that He was the King before He was crucified. He did not say that He was going to be King, but that He already was. So if the King was there, what was He King of? Did He not preach that the Kingdom was "at hand"? Notice that when He said, " ... “Are you still sleeping and resting? Behold, the hour is at hand and the Son of Man is being betrayed into the hands of sinners. [SUP]46 [/SUP]Get up, let us be going; behold, the one who betrays Me is at hand!” the following verse said, [SUP] "[/SUP]While He was still speaking, behold, Judas, one of the twelve, came up accompanied by a large crowd with swords and clubs, who came from the chief priests and elders of the people."


John 18:37
Therefore Pilate said to Him, “So You are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say correctly that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”

Jn 3:5--------------spirit+++++water>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1Cor 12:13--------spirit++++baptized>>>>>>>>>in the body

harmonizing Jn 3:5 with other "born again" verse we can easily see "born of water" of Jn 3:5 is equivalent to "baptized" of 1 Cor 12:13. So being born again is water baptism

 

[homwardbound]

I have not seen any one say a physical circumcision is necessary to being saved.

Col 2:11,12 God performs a spiritual circumcision in cutting away the body of sin, but God does this when one is buried in baptism, no where else.

Did Abraham's foreskin being cut bring forth blood that covered him temporarily?
Did Zeporrah, Moses's wife, cut back first born Son of Moses and throw the blood on Moses and God left him and did not kill him as God was come forth to do, and he got covered in the blood temporarily?
Exodus 4:24-26

[SUP]24 [/SUP]At a lodging place on the way, the Lord met Moses[SUP][b][/SUP] and was about to kill him. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But Zipporah took a flint knife, cut off her son’s foreskin and touched Moses’ feet with it.[SUP][c][/SUP] “Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me,” she said. [SUP]26 [/SUP]So the Lord let him alone. (At that time she said “bridegroom of blood,” referring to circumcision.)

Blood the payment and Chirst the final payment for God to be able to live in us and teach us how to walk by Faith in God as Christ already did and showed us all you think?

 

[homwardbound]

Christ shed His blood in His death, ergo God has made it where water baptism puts one in Christ's death, Rom 6:3-5, where there in baptism that shed blood washes away sins/God cuts away the body of sin, Col 2:11,12.

The verse in Romans there does not say, water, blood or Spirit, and so that leaves it up to you to see by God to show you or not

 

[SeaBass]

Straining out a gnat and swallowing the camel are we, okay then? love you anyway, this is what God did

Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us

Ready yet to ask Father for the new life he gives in Spirit and truth, ask in all honesty and God will perform waht God has done for you by Son in the resurrected Christ for you to have new life in Spirit and truth, dead to flesh sin

This in no way refutes Phillip water baptized the eunuch. This water baptism is the human administered water baptism the disciples were commissioned to do, Mt 28:19,20; Mk 16:15,16; Lk 24:47. It's the one baptism of Eph 4;5, it is commanded, Acts 2;38; it saves/remits sins, Acts 2;28, 1 Pet 3:21; it is commanded to every nation, Mk 16:15,16; it lasts till the end of time, Mt 28:19,20.

Acts 2:41, rejecting baptism is rejecting the gospel

Acts 2:47 the ones being saved and added to the church were the ones obeying the gospel by repenting and being baptized, v38.

 

[p_rehbein]

What I find puzzling is that some people will hang their hats on this passage from Acts..........

Acts 2:38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 .) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

Yet they never seem to make it to the 5th Chapter, were the very same Peter said this:

Acts 5:29) Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
30 .) The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31 .) Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 .) And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

 

[SeaBass]

The verse in Romans there does not say, water, blood or Spirit, and so that leaves it up to you to see by God to show you or not

Jn 19:34 shows Christ shed His blood in His death

Rom 6:3-5 shows baptism is what puts one in Christ's death where His blood was shed. So water baptism is what gives one access to Christ's death and shed blood.

 

[SeaBass]

Did Abraham's foreskin being cut bring forth blood that covered him temporarily?
Did Zeporrah, Moses's wife, cut back first born Son of Moses and throw the blood on Moses and God left him and did not kill him as God was come forth to do, and he got covered in the blood temporarily?
Exodus 4:24-26

[SUP]24 [/SUP]At a lodging place on the way, the Lord met Moses[SUP][b][/SUP] and was about to kill him. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But Zipporah took a flint knife, cut off her son’s foreskin and touched Moses’ feet with it.[SUP][c][/SUP] “Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me,” she said. [SUP]26 [/SUP]So the Lord let him alone. (At that time she said “bridegroom of blood,” referring to circumcision.)

Blood the payment and Chirst the final payment for God to be able to live in us and teach us how to walk by Faith in God as Christ already did and showed us all you think?

What does Abraham being circumcised have to do with Christ's blood washing away sins in baptism?

 

[homwardbound]

The gospel teaches that one must believe, Jn 8:24; repent, Lk 13:3,5, confess, Mt 10:32,33; be baptized Mk 16:16.

Water baptism is the point God has chosen to put one in contact with the blood of Christ.

Okay then, so you are there, are you. you still sin or has God cut that out yet? Are you trying to be? when God has by Son already made you be perfect in God's sight, by Son's death per Colosians 1:21-23
For I know if I am trying to be and succeed anywhere I am proud and boastful have lost humility and need a messenger to buffet me, to bring me back down, not to guilt as the enemy would have me be and anyone he can. Nope back to trusting God alone to do in me and through me what I in this unredeemed flesh can never do, and walk by the Spirit of truth in God the Father alone thanks to The Christ for me and all who believe God

 

[homwardbound]

1) the thief lived and died under the OT law and is not an example of NT salvation

2) Heb 9:16,17, the NT did not come into effect until some time AFTER Christ died, so the thief was not under nor accountable to it. Yet those of us who live AFTER Acts 2:38 are accountable to it.

3) for all we know, the thief may have been a disciple baptized with John's baptism but later fell into a life of crime.

4) Matt 9:6 when Christ was "ON EARTH" he had the authority/power to forgive sins of those whom He thought was deserving as the thief. Yet Christ left earth some 2000 years ago, so how can anyone claim they are saved just like the thief when Christ is NOT here on earth today going around and forgiving sins as He was at the time of the thief? When Christ left earth some 2000 years ago, He left behind His word as His authority on earth and His word requires belief, repentance, confession and baptism to be saved for us today.

Seabass, God just love you get it I pray, and am not interested in anything else but God to trust God by Christ, period, thanks for your two cents

 

[homwardbound]

So those that lived under the OT law as the thief, Noah, Abraham, David, etc., all lived BEFORE Acts 2:38 came into effect so they were not accountable to it like we today who live AFTER Acts 2:38 are accountable to it.

Acts 2:47 after one is baptized God adds him to the right church, the one and only church that was established on Pentecost.

Acts 2:47 "praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved."

Who in Acts 2 were being saved? The ones that obeyed verse 38.

Okay, thank you for this, where is the true Church at? Is there one on earth today? Or is it you and where you go and those that your place of worship recognize only?

 

[homwardbound]

So you are only assuming the pronouns "you" refer to you.

All I want is what God wants for you to be saved and just trust God all in all first and foremost before anyone or anything else Your choice and it is between God and you, not anyone else or any other denomination or gathering of any fellowship or any water Baptism
If you do trust God all in all, God will lead and I trust God to do this, and if you have not made the choice then please do, make the conscious choice as to whether you believe God or not wholly?
please decide this between God and you and be done, alive or not, thank you, have a blessed day, week, moth and year, for God truly does just love you