Baptism: is it required to be baptized in water?

  • Thread starter WingsOfFidelity
  • Start date
  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,912
29,290
113
If Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness, "must" we not do the same?
Do you think YOU can fulfill all righteousness? Good luck with that.

What we do is put on the righteousness of Christ. We clothe ourselves in HIS righteousness.

If for some reason someone is unable to be water baptized after coming to belief and having faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ for the salvation of their soul, having repented of their rebellion against God, then they will not lose their salvation for want of physical water, when Jesus Christ gives them water that will become in them a spring welling up to eternal life. Jesus said so :) These Scriptures also answer preston, who gave Scriptures that contradicted what he was saying.

Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of
his heart will flow rivers of living water.’”
John 7:38

Jesus said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” John 4:13b-14

And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment." Rev 21:6

The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say,“Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price. Rev 22:17

With joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation. Isa 12:3

Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb Rev 22:1

On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. John 7:37-39a

They shall hunger no more, neither thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any scorching heat. For the Lamb in the midst of the throne will be their shepherd, and he will guide them to springs of living water, and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes. Rev 7:16-17

Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, ‘Give me a drink,’ you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.” John 4:10


 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
7,089
1,727
113
The only baptism that is necessary for salvation is that of the Holy Spirit of God.

And this water symbolizes the baptism that now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the body, but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, Who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to Him.
1 Peter 3:21-22

Please don't interpret that to mean I argue against being water baptized.
You would be very wrong to think such a thing :)
Mags... I think you missed that comparison there... Peter is talking about how Noah and his family were saved through water, and that like that, baptism now saves us... I don't think he was comparing water baptism to Spirit baptism at all.

If he was talking about Spirit baptism, why even bring up the "water" reference in Noah? Corresponding to the fact that Noah's family was saved by being brought through the water... he was talking about water baptism. Otherwise the comparison is useless.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the [SUP][p][/SUP]water. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God [SUP][q][/SUP]for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, [SUP]22 [/SUP]who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
Mags... I think you missed that comparison there... Peter is talking about how Noah and his family were saved through water, and that like that, baptism now saves us... I don't think he was comparing water baptism to Spirit baptism at all.

If he was talking about Spirit baptism, why even bring up the "water" reference in Noah? Corresponding to the fact that Noah's family was saved by being brought through the water... he was talking about water baptism. Otherwise the comparison is useless.
Noah and his family were saved from the water. Water was sent by God to judge sinful men. Water cleansed that which was outside of the ark. Inside Noah and his family were protected from the water by the pitch which was on the inside and the outside of the ark.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,562
17,027
113
69
Tennessee
If Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness, "must" we not do the same?

I have no idea what your "do you wanna go get crucified" comment means.
No, I don't believe so.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
If Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness, "must" we not do the same?
How could we? Jesus fulfilled what we could never fulfill. That's vicarious atonement in full view. The sacrificial Lamb with innocence long lost on our part.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,912
29,290
113
Mags... I think you missed that comparison there... Peter is talking about how Noah and his family were saved through water, and that like that, baptism now saves us... I don't think he was comparing water baptism to Spirit baptism at all.

If he was talking about Spirit baptism, why even bring up the "water" reference in Noah? Corresponding to the fact that Noah's family was saved by being brought through the water... he was talking about water baptism. Otherwise the comparison is useless.
Hello dearest hornetguy :) I believe you missed the fact that water baptism symbolizes the baptism that saves. That baptism is that of the Holy Spirit of God. See my post at the top of this page, particularly in reference to John 7:37-39a.
 
L

lancaster

Guest
Baptism required? What's the bible have to say. That's always a good place to start.
29 The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” (Acts 126:29-31)​

So if baptism is required I guess we should change this passage to read, "Believe in the Lord Jesus and be baptized, and you will be saved."

I'll give Zondervan a call to have this passage changed. We sure don't want the bible to be misleading people. /sarcasm
There is an injuction in the word of God that if a man presumes to add to or take away from God's word that God will add the plagues of the book to you and if you try to remove any truth out of the word of God then He will remove your name out of the book of life. You forgot to mention that after Paul spoke to the Jailer encouraging him to believe then he spoke the word of the Lord to him and the Jailers response to the word of the Lord was to be baptized straitway.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
There is an injuction in the word of God that if a man presumes to add to or take away from God's word that God will add the plagues of the book to you and if you try to remove any truth out of the word of God then He will remove your name out of the book of life. You forgot to mention that after Paul spoke to the Jailer encouraging him to believe then he spoke the word of the Lord to him and the Jailers response to the word of the Lord was to be baptized straitway.
Baptism after belief is the accepted practice of the NT church. Baptism to be saved is a corruption of the practice. The Jailer and his family were baptized because they believed not to become believers.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
113
The man Christ Jesus is a human,and a servant of God,and died,was buried,and resurrected,and we have to identify with Him being a human,and a servant of God,by repenting,dying out to sin,being water baptized,being buried,and being resurrected,receiving the Spirit.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Jesus plainly stated that we have to be born of water and of the Spirit.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

baptizō
bap-tid'-zo
From a derivative of G911; to make whelmed (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash.

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

They asked what must we do to be saved,and Peter said to be baptized for the remission of sins,and Jews,Gentiles,and Samaritans were all baptized in the book of Acts.

Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Those baptized unto John's baptism had to be baptized in Jesus' name,if they care to delve in to that one and understand that Jesus is the name of the Father,Son,and Holy Spirit,another thing they do not understand,which they also do not understand Jesus at the right hand of God thinking that Jesus sits on a throne next to the Father but that is not what it means.

Act 8:34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Act 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

Philip explained Jesus Christ,and salvation,to an Ethiopian eunuch,and Philip baptized the eunuch,and then the eunuch never seen Philip again,so he was baptized not to be part of a certain Church for he was alone with Philip and not at a Church,but Philip when he explained salvation had him water baptized.

1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

The Bible plainly states that baptism does now save us,and speaks of water,not the putting away of the filth of the flesh as in taking a bath,but the answer of a good conscience toward God.

And what is the answer of a good conscience toward God.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

We have to identify with the man Christ Jesus for if we have been planted in the likeness of His death,which is water baptism,we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection.

If you are not water baptized how do you expect to rise in the likeness of His resurrection,for you have to lay down those sins to be able to rise in newness of life.

Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

baptizō
bap-tid'-zo
From a derivative of G911; to make whelmed (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash.

Water baptism,for the remission of sins,lay down those sins,wash away those sins.

It appears as if water baptism is part of the salvation plan of God,but they believe not saved by works to take it out of the way,but then repentance would be a work,and confessing Christ would be a work,but they do those things.

Everything we do is a work.

1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father.

2Th 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power.

The Bible says it is the work of faith,for faith is a work for you did it.

And for people that believe that God chooses who will be saved,and not saved,in the beginning without their choice,then that means their faith is not real,their confession of Christ is not real,their repentance is not real,and their love is not real,for it did not come from them,which would mean God's kingdom is not true love.

God states that He wants all people to be saved,and many are called but few are chosen.

How are these people interpreting scriptures.

The thief on the cross had no way to be water baptized so it was bypassed,but if people are ignoring scriptures that plainly state to be water baptized,and believe they do not have to do it,will they be accountable for ignoring the truth.

Jesus plainly states to be born of water and of the Spirit to be able to enter the kingdom of God.

The Bible plainly states you have to be buried in the likeness of Jesus' death,and then you will also rise in the likeness of His resurrection.

In the Old Testament God said He would reveal a new name to the Jews,and Jesus said He came in His Father's name,and the prophet Agur said what is His name,and what is His Son's name if you can tell,meaning they will share the same name.

The Son inherited the name from the Father.

The Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

Luke said baptism is to be preached in Jesus' name.

Jews,Gentiles,and Samaritans,were all baptized in Jesus' name.

All you do in word and deed do all in the name of Jesus.

There is no other name whereby we are saved but by the name Jesus.
 

plaintalk

Senior Member
Jul 20, 2015
445
15
18
#448 Acts 2: 38 The 3,000 were commanded to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins. V 41- Those who received the word were baptized and added to the number of those who were being saved. V 47. This baptism in water was for all creation and all nations. (Matt 28: 18-20; Mark 16: 15, 16) Jesus said he that believes the gospel and is baptized shall be saved. It is not necessary to redundantly repeat every detail in every conversion in an account such as the book of Acts. We are all saved in the same way. (Acts 15: 11) Repentance is not mentioned in the account of the Ethiopian eunuch. Does this mean that repentance is not necessary? (Acts 17: 30) We should be able to do better than that.
God bless.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
Baptism after belief is the accepted practice of the NT church. Baptism to be saved is a corruption of the practice. The Jailer and his family were baptized because they believed not to become believers.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Baptism after belief is the accepted practice of the NT church
No one is denying this, who here is suggesting we should be baptized before belief?

Baptism to be saved is a corruption of the practice.
Peter said "Repent and be baptized so that your sins will be forgiven and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit". Where is the corruption in that?

The Jailer and his family were baptized because they believed not to become believers.
You did it again. Of course they were baptized because they believed. Would you expect them to get baptized because they did not believe? They believed and were baptized in perfect order what is your point?

The only part you got right.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
No one is denying this, who here is suggesting we should be baptized before belief?

Peter said "Repent and be baptized so that your sins will be forgiven and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit". Where is the corruption in that?

You did it again. Of course they were baptized because they believed. Would you expect them to get baptized because they did not believe? They believed and were baptized in perfect order what is your point?



The only part you got right.
So were they water baptized or Spirit baptized?

When did you receive the Holy Spirit? When were you born again?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
So were they water baptized or Spirit baptized?

When did you receive the Holy Spirit? When were you born again?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Are you saying that Peter was commanding them to "Repent and be spirit baptized so that your sins will be forgiven and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit"?
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
Are you saying that Peter was commanding them to "Repent and be spirit baptized so that your sins will be forgiven and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit"?
Water has nothing to do with Holy Spirit baptism. Salvation has nothing to do with water baptism.

When a sinner repents and receives Christ as Savior he is Holy Spirit baptized and the Holy Spirit remains as a gift or a seal of his redemption.

Interesting that the scripture teaches that the things of the Holy Spirit are not understood by those who are natural and unconverted. I hope you are going to emerge from your confusion and fully comprehend the Holy Spirit in the conversion of sinners into Saints.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,562
17,027
113
69
Tennessee
Are you saying that Peter was commanding them to "Repent and be spirit baptized so that your sins will be forgiven and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit"?
That sounds about right. That would be a figurative interpretation rather than literal. There's a lot of that going on in the BDF. Maybe it was from the King James. That would explain it.
 

anerlogios

Junior Member
Mar 2, 2017
16
2
0
Are you saying that Peter was commanding them to "Repent and be spirit baptized so that your sins will be forgiven and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit"?
Spirit baptized?? Everywhere else in Acts when a perso was baptized it was with water. How can baptism mean baptized with water in Acts 8:36-38 but mean baptized with the spirit in Acts 2:38??
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
7,089
1,727
113
Spirit baptized?? Everywhere else in Acts when a perso was baptized it was with water. How can baptism mean baptized with water in Acts 8:36-38 but mean baptized with the spirit in Acts 2:38??
Correct.... we have to read scripture as it was written, and put it in perspective of who it was written to...

The Jews at Pentecost had NO concept of a spirit baptism. When Peter said "repent and be baptized" there was NO misunderstanding on their part. They knew exactly what he was telling them to do. Be water baptized... immersed.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit comes at the same time.. ".... and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit"

We can argue all day long as to when "salvation" happens... is it at the instance of belief and acceptance of Jesus? Is it at baptism? Is it when you lay your hand on your TV and pray the so-called "sinner's prayer" ?

I think it is at the culmination of what we were told to do. Believe and be baptized for the forgiveness of sin... Just like Jesus and Peter said.

Are we "saved" if we are not baptized? Why does that question even come up, unless someone is trying to wiggle out of doing what Jesus told us to do? "I don't think baptism is necessary, because I found a couple of scriptures that didn't mention baptism when talking about salvation".... What about the scriptures that say it IS necessary.... just toss them out? Jesus taught baptism, for a reason. If we try to remove that, or render it as just some "simple sign", then we have told Jesus that we know better than him what we should do to be saved. I will not do that, nor will I teach it.

No amount of twisting and parsing and conjugating can take away from what Jesus and Peter SAID, and what all the apostles taught and practiced.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
7,089
1,727
113
Hello dearest hornetguy :) I believe you missed the fact that water baptism symbolizes the baptism that saves. That baptism is that of the Holy Spirit of God. See my post at the top of this page, particularly in reference to John 7:37-39a.
:)
No, I agree with that... water baptism is the physical representation of our death to sin, burial, and resurrection. Our spiritual baptism is what is going on while we are physically re-enacting our savior's death, burial, and resurrection. Both are necessary, and are tied together.

The water itself has no power, it's simply the medium we use in our symbolic death burial resurrection. Scripture even says that... baptism saves us... not by "washing" us, but the physical act is an appeal to God for the cleansing of our conscience... which comes when we have accepted Jesus and been baptized, as he told us to do.

The Jews understood baptism as a spiritual "cleansing process"... there is a lot of symbolism tied to being baptized. And Jesus added even another facet... spiritual baptism. This had to be explained to the disciples.... 'not only are you being physically baptized, the "cleansing process" but you are also being baptized spiritually..' of which they had no concept. It's new to them.
 
L

lancaster

Guest
Water has nothing to do with Holy Spirit baptism. Salvation has nothing to do with water baptism.

When a sinner repents and receives Christ as Savior he is Holy Spirit baptized and the Holy Spirit remains as a gift or a seal of his redemption.

Interesting that the scripture teaches that the things of the Holy Spirit are not understood by those who are natural and unconverted. I hope you are going to emerge from your confusion and fully comprehend the Holy Spirit in the conversion of sinners into Saints.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
You say that as soon as a person repents that he receives the Holy Spirit. I beg to differ with you because in the 8th chapter of the book of Acts they all believed and they were all baptized but no one had the Holy Ghost. Peter and John had to go down and pray for them and then they received the Holy Ghost. It seems that when you say that the scriptures are not understood by those who are natural and unconverted that you are talking about yourself.