Baptism symbol only ?

Dogknox · Nov 1, 2014

Atwood. GIVING IS NOT WORKS!!!

You WORK for a wage, work means you get payed!!!!
GIVING means no payment.. You GIVE, GIVE of your TIME, GIVE of your money, GIVING to Jesus is NOT working for salvation!

34-36 “Then the king will say to those on his right ‘Come, you who have won my Father’s blessing! Take your inheritance—the kingdom reserved for you since the foundation of the world! For I was hungry and you gave me food. I was thirsty and you gave me a drink. I was lonely and you made me welcome. I was naked and you clothed me. I was ill and you came and looked after me. I was in prison and you came to see me there.”

The Sheep enter the KINGDOM because they LOVE they have ACTIONS of the heart!
There LOVE SAVED THEM!!

God is LOVE!!!!
The man with Faith ALONE is God LESS!
The man with Faith ALONE is without any Hope he is Hope-LESS!

Only the RIGHTEOUS will inherit the kingdom! To be Righteous you MUST Do RIGHT!

The teaching of saved by "Faith ALONE" cannot be found in the bible it is a MAN MADE teaching! It first appeared sixteen Hundred years After Jesus! It was a teaching of Martin Luther, he could NOT find any scriptures to support his teaching, NOT one verse, so he ADDED the word "ALONE" to the book of Romans so it wold say "Faith ALONE"! FACT..
Fact is the ONLY place in the bible where the word "Faith" and the word "Alone" are together is in James, there the words "NOT BY" come first.. "Not by faith ALONE"!

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]?21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together,and his faith was made complete by what he did.23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend.24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

ALL...
All MUST enter through Jesus!!!!! Jesus is the Judge, he is the GATE!
If you believed the scriptures would would believe Jesus is GOD, God is LOVE!!!
NO ONE...
No one enters heaven without going through the gate of LOVE! Must enter through LOVE!!

Luke 10:25
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

You MUST LOVE to have eternal life!!!!
You MUST believe Jesus!
You MUST believe "The man answered correctly"!

Atwood. To say, you are saved by "Faith ALONE" you CONDEMN YOURSELF!
You saying "Faith ALONE saves" you are proclaiming "God LIES"! You will be JUDGED by who you say tells lies! “What must I do to inherit eternal life?”

48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

You reject Jesus... The words Jesus spoke CONDEMN YOU!
The words of Jesus>> “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

Atwood. I do not make this up! I did not write the scriptures, Jesus did! I point you to the LIE of salvation by faith ALONE from the scriptures Jesus' words; So you reject Jesus' words also! You are a sorry fellow stuck in a man made teaching coming from Satan himself! The teaching of "Saved by faith ALONE" sends many protestant souls to Satan.. The G & S story are a WARNING from God directly to you!!!

Atwood · Nov 2, 2014

Dogknox said:

Dog, you need to prove your claims from scripture. 1 Cor 12:13 tells us that it is Spirit baptism which puts a man into the Body of Christ (NO WATER. NO WORKS). When a man trusts Christ as Savior, He is put in Christ and whatever happened to Christ in His death, resurrection, & ascension is attributed to the believer in the mystical union. So believers are seated already in Heaven.

1 Peter 3:21does say that water immersion saves you . (Baptism has nothing to do with sprinkling). It says that it symbolizes what saves you, antitupikon figuratively. It is Christ's death, burial, & resurrection which is the reality that saves, not the picture.

water: 21 which also after a figure (ἀντίτυπον) doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ;

It is not water cleaning flesh that saves; the water is picture.

THINK: The Church Jesus established as recorded in the NT ALWAYS immersed with WATER! so far as we know. But that immersion is only a picture. Spirit baptism is clearly distinguished from water immersion; Spirit baptism is salvific by putting one into the Body of Christ. Water is not salvific.

The last I knew the Easterners all immersed with water. YOu need to stop hiding behind the transliteration "baptize," with is no translation of baptizo, just a transliteration.

It is not documented that Christians always immersed with water to save. It is clear in the Bible that salvation is offered over & over without any water mentioned.

Water baptism was instituted before the thief on the cross died.
Making disciples is not salvation; Saved persons are taught & are discipled.
Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you,no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

Thus be sure to be born again. That requires trusting Christ as Savior -- nothing to do with water.

You have no proof that the Thief did not come under the Reign of God (Kingdom, basileia). Do you really think that God does not reign over Paradise? What is your proof that paradise is a garden? You think Paul was taken up to the 3rd Heaven, Paradise, and messed around there with dirt & plants?

Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Anyone who calls the book "Revelations" raises the possibility that he doesn't know the book; for its name is not "Revelations."

Is there some reason why you think that Paradise is not in the 3rd Heaven today? When the New Earth is created at the end of Revelation, the New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven. And it is continental in size. Go check its dimensions. So if the tree of life in in the New Earth at the New Jerusalem, does that clarify things for you?

LOOK John the Baptist also died before Pentecost!!!!!

The special Kingdom which Christ announced was the Davidic Kingdom (Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand). To this day that Kingdom of Israel has not been established. I take it that John's status in his ministry is inferior to that of a person in the Millennial Kingdom when it is established.

Equating the expression Kingdom of God with the Church is a big interpretive blunder. God has more than one aspect to His Reign. No one is re-born by the Church. And there is no Church in John 3.

Your comment is foreign to the text. The Church is not called the resurrected Body.
Try to find a verse that says that. Being born of the Spirit is regeneration, recreation; not the same work as Spirit baptism. Your claims are made up. You have a mixed up sentence which seems to have the absurd claim that John the Baptist had no sin.

Your post is unscriptural.

PROOF that savlation is by faith/belief/ trusting Christ alone:

1 Pet 3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER][/FONT]

Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
[NO WORKS, NO WATER][/FONT]

Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER][/FONT]

JOHN 20:30
Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER][/FONT]

Act 13:48
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: 16 howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 10:27
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Atwood · Nov 2, 2014

Dogknox said:

Yes it is, 2 Cor says so & I already quoted it. Whether you get paid for it or not, it is work. And there are rewards for works for Christians, 5 crowns as examples.

6 But this I say, He that soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he that soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. 7 Let each man do according as he hath purposed in his heart: not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound unto you; that ye, having always all sufficiency in everything, may abound unto every good work: 9 as it is written,
He hath scattered abroad, he hath given to the poor;
His righteousness abideth for ever.

Kindly stop making things up. Mat 25 is judgment; salvation does not occur. And salvation is always by grace through faith. All baloney your recite.

For by grace you have been saved through faith . . . not of works lest dog should boast.

I have already quoted you many passages where salvation is offered for believing & nothing else.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who beholdeth the Son, andbelieves on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 10:27
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
JOHN 20:30
Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Act 13:48
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Acts 15:8

And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Acts 16:31a
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, . . . .
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Acts 26:18b

that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER, NO PAPAL SYSTEM]

Justification is a declaration of righteouness, not salvation per se, though justification does come to a man when He is saved by faith, apart from any works. Long after Abe was declared righteous by faith, apart from works, Abe offered up Isaac & for that good work Abe was declared righteous again; but that was not salvation.

Yes the Lord Jesus is the Door; you must enter by trusting Him as savior. Water is not the gate.

The unsaved man has no love; nothing he does is unselfish. There is none good, no not one. You have to trust Christ the Savior & be recreated before there is love & good works. So an unsaved man cannot be saved by "love."

Luke 10:25

Click to expand...

But he did not love. If you could obey God's law (love neighbor as self, etc.) you could be saved by keeping the law. But no unsaved man does. In a similar passage the discussion goes on to the explanation that salvation is impossible with man, but only possible with God. Salvation is ever, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall be saved. For men without a new birth do not love.

Sirs, what MUST-I-DO to be saved?
Answer: Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.
I don't make up anything. That is God's word.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST.
Believe is the one MUST-I-DO; whosoever believes.

WHEN WILL YOU GET TO THE END OF YOUR ROPE & CRY OUT, "GOD BE MERCIFUL TO ME A SINNER?"

Dogknox · Nov 2, 2014

Atwood Your words... you need to prove your claims from scripture. 1 Cor 12:13 tells us that it is Spirit baptism which puts a man into the Body of Christ (NO WATER. NO WORKS). When a man trusts Christ as Savior, He is put in Christ and whatever happened to Christ in His death, resurrection, & ascension is attributed to the believer in the mystical union. So believers are seated already in Heaven.

I reply: I prove your error easy enough. You are WRONG: There is Nothing about "Spirit Baptism" in 1 Corinthians 12:13!
It is saying, the Spirit Jesus sends to the Baptized is all the same spirit!
The Church Baptizes with water!

NO SUCH THING AS SPIRIT BAPTISM! This passage (below) makes it clear >> Jesus sends the Holy Spirit, The Church baptizes with WATER! Every time anyone is baptized it is with WATER and it is done by the CHURCH!

Ephesians 4:4
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Nothing about Spirit Baptism.

Atwood Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to all peoples baptized by the Church! The same and ONLY Spirit is received by all!

1 Cor 13 (below) proves the Goats are condemned because they have no LOVE, they have Faith ALONE!
The Sheep have LOVE so they are righteous; They have Faith PLUS LOVE!!

1 Corinthians 13
1 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,but do not have love, I gain nothing.

1 Corinthians 12
13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

Thus all the Baptized have the One Spirit! There is NOT two spirits!

PACEMAKER · Nov 2, 2014

Dogknox said:

Dogknox; I will agree with you that you did Not write the Scriptures.
You have already misquoted and taken Scripture out of Context
Numerous of times..

If you Sincerely Honestly want the Truth of what Scriptures say
Then you need to take ALL Scripture in Context
And Do NOT TWIST or change the Meaning of words..

There have been Many Post that Contradict your Beliefs
About the Power of "water baptism"

Scriptures DO Not Contradict themselves

You are misunderstanding the word “Faith Alone”
What is Meant is ones on Personal "FAITH "

And Not Adding Any Physical Work to it..........

And the same is with GRACE

and Not Adding any Physical Work to it .......

“water baptism” takes TWO People to Accomplish
And takes the Personal One to One Relationship with God
to a Physical Work to Accomplish

You had mentioned the “sinners prayer”
Apparently we are ALL Sinners according to
[h=1]Romans 3:23
[/h] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

So We are ALL Sinners

And when we Pray
It IS a SINNERS PRAYER ..

Remember that God Knows our Heart
Of Sincere Repentance
And our Belief and Faith

In Christ Life, Death, Burial, And Resurrection

So WHY would we Have to DO a Physical Work

such as Water baptism”
Before HE writes our Name in the Book of Life ???

When it comes to the matter of our salvation,

the New Testament writers use different Greek words—
words that emphasize the gracious
and absolutely free quality of the gift.
Here are the two words most commonly used
for the gift of salvation:

1) Dorea, meaning “a free gift.”
This word lays particular stress on the gratuitous nature of the gift—
it is something given above and beyond what is expected or deserved.
Every New Testament occurrence of this word is related to a spiritual gift from God.
It is what Jesus offers to the Samaritan woman at the well (John 4:10).
It is called the “free gift” in Romans 5:15.

It is the “unspeakable [or indescribable] gift” in 2 Corinthians 9:15.
This gracious gift is identified as the Holy Spirit

in Acts 2:38; 8:30; and 11:17.

The adverb form of this word is dorean,
translated “freely”
in Matthew 10:8; 2 Corinthians 11:7; Revelation 21:6; 22:17.

In Romans 3:24, immediately following God’s
pronouncement of our guilt,

we have this use of dorean:

“Being justified FREELY by His grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.”

The gift of salvation is free,

and the motive for the gift is nothing more

than the grace of the Giver.
2) Charisma, meaning “a gift of grace.”
This word is used to define salvation in Romans 5:15-16.
Also, in Romans 6:23:“For the wages of sin is death,

but the GIFT [charisma] of God
is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

This same word is used in conjunction with

the gifts of the Spirit received after salvation
(Romans 12:6; 1 Timothy 4:14; 2 Timothy 1:6; 1 Peter 4:10).

Obviously,
if something is a “gift of grace,”
it cannot be earned.

To work for something is to deserve it,

and that would produce an obligation

a gift of debt, as it were.

That is why works destroy grace (Romans 4:1-5; 11:5-6).

When presenting salvation,
the New Testament writers carefully chose words
that emphasize grace and freedom.

As a result, the Bible could not be more clear—
salvation is absolutely free,
the true gift of God in Christ,
and our only responsibility is
to receive the gift by faith
(John 1:12; 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9).

Dogknox: Myself along with others can Not Understand
Just Why you Think That U Think that U can DO
Anything that would Deserve your Salvation....

WE can NOT Keep ALL the Commands
WE ALL Fall Short of being Righteous

That is where Our Faith
And Our Trust
Comes from Jesus Christ Alone

My church does Not Save me
Your Church does Not Save you

Jesus Christ SAVES.....

Please take your time to listen to this song..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKNBQR4J8LE

Dogknox: Just how much Power does "water baptism" have

WITH OUT the Shed BLOOD of Jesus Christ ?????????????

ACCEPT THE FREE GIFT

Dogknox · Nov 2, 2014

But he did not love. If you could obey God's law (love neighbor as self, etc.) you could be saved by keeping the law. But no unsaved man does. In a similar passage the discussion goes on to the explanation that salvation is impossible with man, but only possible with God. Salvation is ever, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall be saved. For men without a new birth do not love.

I reply: You are wrong, It is NOT impossible to love! If the man loves he will have eternal life!
The Sheep have eternal life they LOVE!
The Goats have no love, they have "Faith ALONE" they have eternal damnation!
Right after Jesus told the man “you answered CORRECTLY" >>“Do this and you will live.”

The man does not question How to love; NO..His question is who is my neighbor!? So Jesus tell the “GoodSamaritan Story”!

The Good Samaritan is saved because hehas LOVE not faith ALONE!

The Priest and the Levite pass by onthe other side they have “Faith ALONE” they are NOT saved!
Priests and Levites are noted for theirFAITH!!!
Back then; Samaritans are always considered asheathens or “Without any FAITH!” The Samaritan has LOVE ALONE!!!!!
The Samaritan GAINES ETERNAL LIFE!

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

Dogknox · Nov 2, 2014

And Not Adding Any Physical Work to it..........

And the same is with GRACE

and Not Adding any Physical Work to it .......

PACEMAKER WHO SAID WORK!!!!!!? You twistscriptures!Not me!!
The Sheep “GIVE” they are NOTWORKING!!!!
Giving is acts of LOVE! Working isexpecting payment!!!

You "GAVE ME' food to eat.... etc

You said..
“water baptism” takes TWO People to Accomplish
And takes the Personal One to One Relationship with God
to a Physical Work to Accomplish.

Baptism requires NO work on the part ofthe one being saved!!! ZERO WORK!!!

The CHURCH does the work!
God sends his GIFT the Holy Spirit!
The person is saved by NO WORKS on hispart! BUT...

But the Protestant saying the sinners prayer is a work!!!
But walking to the front>> Is awork!!
Saying the sinners prayer>> Is aWORK!
TAKING Jesus as your savior>> isa WORK to be saved!
As if the baby being born does thework!!! Babies do NO work to be born!
AS IF.....
As if God has no choice to make this protestant his child... After the sinners prayer is said!!???

The Christias is reborn by the work ofhis Parents, The Bride (Church) and the Groom (God)
Catholics have TWO parents “MotherChurch” re-forms with the waters of Baptism NO WORK by those being re-born! Father God sends theGIFT of the Holy Spirit.... All with NO WORKS on the one being saved!

Hoffco · Nov 2, 2014

We must get back to the Bibles "work of faith, labor of love, steadfast in hope". The "faith only" people have perverted The clear teaching of our "Godly Gospel" which makes sinners into saints for holy Christian living with the promise of eternal life. Salvation has two parts and each part has three stages, 1.New Birth , Holy living and final perfection. We are saved, being saving and we will be saved.; That is Sanctification. Then 2. Justification has three stages: By Grace, by Faith, and by Works.. Love to all Pastor Doug ,Hoffco

Atwood · Nov 2, 2014

Hoffco said:

Hoffco, be not a foolish Galatian. It is not the faith only people, but the faith only God, and the faith-only Bible. He has done the work, and he asks that you trust Him. He demands that you trust him. The unsaved man has no good works. Even the Christian is told to live by faith.

Galatians 2:20ff:
"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ liveth in me: and that life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me. I do not make void the grace of God: for if righteousness is through the law, then Christ died for nought. O foolish Galatians, who did bewitch you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was openly set forth crucified? This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh?"

A Romans says at the start, it is from faith to faith.

Here is true Biblical saving faith:

He [Hezekiah] trusted in YHWH, the God of Israel; so that after him was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor among them that were before him. For he clave to YHWH;

How far this desperate, utter dependence upon the Lord is from that stupid canard about demons believing that something is so. How far is this genuine trust in the Lord from that absurd idiocy how that addressing Christ as "Lord" at a judgment means faith.

If you are not saved, you may not admit it because of pride, thinking you should get validation instead of being declared a man whose supposed righteousnesses are as filthy rags.

But the word tells us to trust in the Lord & He will bring it to pass; He will make your righteousness to go forth as the light, & your justice as the noon day. (Ps 37)

Atwood · Nov 2, 2014

Water Baptism is in the NT is immersion. And it is a symbol of the reality.
Note we do not address sprinkling, for it is not Biblical water baptism nor Spirit baptism. It is nonsense, an ineffectual ritual done often to babies.

Water immersion is a symbol of the saving reality: death, burial, & resurrection of Christ. That water immersion is not essential to salvation is proven by the simply enormous number of passages where God offers salvation to men if they will do one thing only, that is to trust (believe in, depend upon, have faith).

It is obvious that satan does not want you to trust the Savior, but he wishes you to dance in the delusion that human works save. And that because he wants your self-righteous destruction.

THE GOSPELS TEACH THAT SALVATION COME ALONE BY FAITH.

Luke 8:11-12
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 3:14-18
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that
whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that
whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him.
He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only Son of God.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER][/FONT]

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER][/FONT]

John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who beholdeth the Son, and believes on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER][/FONT]

John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER][/FONT]

John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 10:27
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

JOHN 20:30
Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER, NO MARY, NO POPE]

kennethcadwell · Nov 2, 2014

People can debate all they want about baptism and rather we are to do or not to do anything that our Lord commaded.
Me I will just stick to following what my Lord Jesus Christ said because He clearly said to be one of His sheep is to follow what He says.

Matthew 28:16-20

The Great Commission

16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Luke 6:46-49

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

Atwood · Nov 2, 2014

Sprinkling is out of the question. Water immersion does not save & must be a symbol, for a multitude of times the Bible offers salvation to man only for believing (trusting/having/faith). ONe must cease trusting in idols (including water, saints, Mary, one's denomination, good works; and start a trust in the Savior who paid for your sins on the cross.

Acts offers salvation for
only believing (faith).

Act 13:48
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe [AORIST IMPERATIVE]
on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, . . .
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Acts 15:8

And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Acts 16:31a
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, . . . .
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Acts 26:18b

that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER, NO RCC]

Atwood · Nov 2, 2014

The evidence is that the only essential thing a man needs to do (& in fact MUST DO) to get a new birth transformation, & the gift of eternal life, is to trust the Savior. This rules out water. Sprinkling is of course non-Biblical. Water immersion is required for obedience after one is saves; but it cannot be essential to salvation since there is such a multitude of scripture offering salvation merely for believing/trusting/having faith. Why not repent of trusting some idol like water & accept that Christ is the only & sufficient Savior, not a mere chance-giver.

ROMANS OFFERS SALVATION JUST FOR BELIEVING (FAITH/TRUST)

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rom 4:1ff

:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith says thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down

or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER, NO PAPACY]

kennethcadwell · Nov 2, 2014

I do like how you keep telling people that you must believe in the Lord Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

What does that belief consist of ? For the answer to that we must go back to what our Lord Jesus Christ said.
He said those who believe in Him will follow His commandments, those who do not will not follow them.
He commanded repentance, confession, baptism, and of course the biggest two;

Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind;

Love your neighbor as yourself;

He even added another command to, and that is to love your enemies.

Atwood said:

Atwood · Nov 2, 2014

Why hide behind the word "baptism"? Do the CoC Campbellites & the papists realize that they are speaking past each other, not grappling with the issue by using the hide-behind word "baptize"? Baptize is essentially just copying Greek letters into English without translating the word. When papists say the word, they think of sprinkling, including sprinkling babies. When the Coc Campbellites use it, they think of immersion, dunking people under water. Why don't you all come out of the closet & translate the word in your debates?

Immersion is a symbol of Christ's atoning death, burial, & resurrection, which indeed is saving; but not the water dunking. Sprinkling is not a NT practice. And it destroys the symbol.

But what you do with water will not damn you to Hell. Failing to trust the Savior will cause you not to get saved from your sins which send you to the Lake of Fire.

It is the huge quantity of passages which offer salvation merely for belief that proves the case that only faith is essential on man's part. Faith is the only MUST-I-DO.

What must I do to be saved?
Answer: Believe on the Lord Jesus,
and you shall be saved.
God is not into false advertising.

1 CORINTHIANS PROCLAIMS SALVATION BY FAITH & NOTHING ADDED:

1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the to save them who believe.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Atwood · Nov 2, 2014

People may object, well what about this, & what about that; frequently quoting passages where salvation is not even the topic.

But the fact remains that so many, many places in scripture salvation is offered to man just for believing, nothing else added. Thus Water can be no more than a symbol. I can see how sprinklers may fail to see the symbol. But those who rightly translate baptize as immerse should see the symbol of the Savior's death, burial, and resurrection.

It is the enormity of the evidence which overwhelms the mind with the truth, though a hard heart may wish to cling to the idol of water as Savior.

GALATIANS PROCLAIMS SALVATION ALONE BY FAITH
(NOTHING ADDED)

GAL 2
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus[/B], that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Gal 3:
This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? 4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. 5 He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or
by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as
Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith,
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. 9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continues not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree: that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Gal 3:22ff

But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Gal 5:5-6

For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER, NO MARY, NO POPE]

Dogknox · Nov 2, 2014

Atwood .. Scriptures tell you: Woman are saved by "Childbearing"!

The Sheep go to heaven because they do NOT have Faith ALONE!
The Goats go to damnation with Satan because they HAVE faith Alone!
The Priest and Levite pass by on the other side because they HAVE Faith ALONE!
The Good Samaritan (a person considered heathen or of NO faith) does NOT have faith ALONE thus he is saved by his actions!

The woman washes Jesus' feet with her hair.. She is saved because she does NOT have faith ALONE!

The teaching of "Faith ALONE" saves, comes from the MAN> Martin Luther! He introduced the TEACHING sixteen hundred years AFTER Jesus established his Holy Catholic Church! Martin Luther could not find even one place in the scriptures to support his teaching so he made a place>> He ADDED the word "ALONE" to the book of Romans!

The Church Jesus established has the AUTHORITY of God given her by Jesus in person, to TEACH ALL NATIONS!
THINK: Use the brain God gave you>> The Church would never ever teach: You do not need church!!! PROVING beyond all doubt... LOGIC alone condemns you in your errors!!

Atwood · Nov 2, 2014

Water Baptism (distorted to sprinkling) or actual dunking is probably the most common idol to substitute for the sufficiency of Christ as a Savior. But other duties may also be claimed. To say that salvation is by faith alone, is not to say that there are no other virtues to practice nor that good works should not be done by the Christian. But don't confuse the issue of salvation with obedience after salvation.

And don't try to throw in love as a condition of salvation. What salvation does is address the depraved nature of unloving man. The un-born-again man cannot be saved by love, because he has no love; he is selfish! There is none who does good, no not one. Salvation cures the deficiencies in man. You have to start with getting an overhaul of your nature, then you can enter into the love, joy, peace, & good works.

Ephesians makes this so clear. Eph does not dismiss good works as something not to be done; but it makes clear that good works do not save. Salvation comes when a man stops claiming self-righteousness like a Pharisee & instead like the Publican cries out, GOD BE MERCIFUL TO ME A SINNER, & He depends upon the Savior with his life & destiny.

When it is said that salvation is by faith alone, apart from works, that means man's works. On God's side there is much work. He sweat like drops of blood just in anticipation of the torment on the cross. All that atoning work of suffering was done for us so we might get salvation as a free gift. But salvation was not free on God's side. We cannot even imagine the intensity of the torment He bore for us. Now to despise the efficacy of His death & try to add in our miserable filthy rag righteousness, is the height of ingratitude.

It is the sheer huge number of times that scripture declares salvation by faith alone which convinces that water baptism cannot be essential. And such words as whosoever believes, anyone, and everyone, rule out adding something to faith.

EPHESIANS DECLARES SALVATION BY FAITH ALONE

Eph 1:10ff
to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will; 12 to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ: 13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,— in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God’s own possession, unto the praise of his glory.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Eph 2

And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins, wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience; among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:— but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus:
for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

SoulWeaver · Nov 2, 2014

This is interesting.

faith WORKING through love

I think that this part "through love" is the most important though, without it it is works doctrine that pharisees had...
Faith produces works using love... these are a consequence of our FAITH that God loves us... We receive His spirit and love by faith. Then we can love our neighbor as a result. We cannot fill another vessel if we are empty and dont know what love is.

Atwood · Nov 2, 2014

One can compare scripture with the local papist's canards, claiming absurdy that the goats of Mat 25 had faith. Just read the text and laugh. And note how the Sheep & Goat Judgment is not about salvation at all, but judgment at the end of the Tribulation on Gentile nations for how they treated Christ's brethren. And note also how water baptism is not mentioned, neither is sprinkling. Imagine: "Come ye blessed of my Father for the Kingdom prepared for you, because you were sprinkled." You won't find that there.

But what you do find over & over, verse upon verse, is that salvation is by faith & nothing else on man's part.

PHILIPPIANS & COLOSSIANS SAY SALVATION IS ALONE BY FAITH

Philip 3:8-9
Yea verily, and I count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but refuse, that I may gain Christ, and be found in him, not having a righteousness of mine own, even that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith:
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Col 2
As therefore ye received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, rooted and builded up in him, and established in your faith, even as ye were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Baptism symbol only ?

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

PACEMAKER

Guest

Banned

Banned

Hoffco

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

kennethcadwell

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

kennethcadwell

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member