Baptism symbol only ?

[Dogknox]

Trying to impose love into how a man gets saved doesn't work, as scripture doesn't teach it, & since man cannot love until He is saved. Love is the fruit of the Spirit. This discussion is not about the things a man should do; this discussion is about how to get saved. And that is ever only by faith on man's part.

We are not obsessing on rare verses which demand some explanation (does someone really think that women can be salvation for having a baby?);
we are focusing upon the repeated & overwhelming testimony of the Lord in His word, how salvation is offered over & over for faith/believing. The Savior must be trusted.

THE PASTORAL EPISTLES PROCLAIM SALVATION ALONE BY FAITH

1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

2 Tim 3:15b
the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Titus 1:4
to Titus, my true child after a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Saviour.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

You ask: does someone really think that women can be salvation for having a baby?

I reply: YES: Woman are saved by Giving birth: Jesus tells you so "Word for word, CHRISTIANS believe the scriptures!"

Atwood To say otherwise is to reject; The Mouth of God as a teller of lies!
FACT: Jesus cannot lie!!!

1 Timothy 2:15
But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.


Atwood you MUST REJECT the words of Jesus yet again, every thing you have written so far, is opposed to scriptures!
Your salvation depends on "Trusting in Jesus" you have placed your salvation in a MAN MADE TRADITION opposed to scriptures!

Historical DOCUMENTED FACT: The TEACHING of "Saved by Faith ALONE" first appeared sixteen Hundred years AFTER Jesus! This TEACHING cannot be found in the scriptures it is a MAN MADE TRADITION!!!
Atwood You MUST "Believe In Jesus" .. Jesus said.. women will be saved through childbearing

CLEARLY: You do NOT believe in Jesus!

 

[Atwood]

women [sic, not in the text, verb is singular] will be saved through [the] childbearing

Dog, it is redickle-dockle to go on about not believing the Lord because someone disagrees with your interp of an obscure verse.

Now it is certain that giving birth to a baby is not essential to salvation, or all men would be out of luck, except maybe Arnold S. And it is absurd to think that giving birth saves a woman, giving her a new birth & eternal life.

What makes it certain that childbearing is not essential to salvation is all the passages that offer salvation just for believing. And then you must think all the nuns who don't play around in their spare time, go to Hell.

"Let a woman learn in quietness with all subjection. But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve; 1and Adam was not beguiled, but the woman [gynē] being beguiled hath fallen into transgression: but (she/it, no noun subject expressed in Greek) shall be saved through the child-bearing, if they continue in faith and love and sanctification with sobriety. Faithful is the saying, If a man seeketh the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. The bishop therefore must be without reproach, the husband of one wife [gynē] . . . ."

Of course this passage gives a big problem to those who claim to be bishops & are not married to a gynē.

13 Ἀδὰμ γὰρ πρῶτος ἐπλάσθη, εἶτα Εὕα. 14 καὶ Ἀδὰμ οὐκ ἠπατήθη, ἡ δὲ γυνὴ ἐξαπατηθεῖσα ἐν παραβάσει γέγονεν· 15 σωθήσεται δὲ διὰ τῆς τεκνογονίας,

This is one of those passages in Paul which Peter calls hard to understand, a passage that may be twisted by idiots. To me it is an obscure passage.

It is not clear to me that save here means saved from the Lake of Fire to eternal life. It may refer to the function of the woman in general, her function is saved. The "child-bearing" may refer to Christ, the seed of the woman. Salvation does come through Christ.

There is not some special way for women to be saved in the Bible, a way not applicable to men or nuns.

Scripture is abundantly clear: What must I do to be saved?
Answer: Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.

1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER, NO BRATS]
2 Tim 3:15b
the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Titus 1:4
to Titus, my true child after a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Saviour.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Heb 3:19ff
And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. For we who have believed do enter into that rest;
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Heb 10:39
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Heb 11:7

By faith Noah, being warned of God concerning things not seen as yet, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

1 Pet 1:3ff
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials, 7 that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ: 8 whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER][/FONT]

1 John 5:4-5

4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith. 5 And who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Rev 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father . . . . 1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Ps 37:5-6
Commit thy way unto YHWH;
Trust also in him, and he will bring it to pass.
And he will make thy righteousness to go forth as the light,
And thy justice as the noonday.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER, NO BRATS]

 

[Dogknox]

Atwood CLEARLY YOU REJECT THE SCRIPTURES yet AGAIN!!

Every one of your posts is a written letter on why the scriptures do not mean what they say word for word! Foolish is an UNDERSTATEMENT!!!!

20You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]?21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together,and his faith was made complete by what he did.23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend.24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

YES: Woman are saved by Giving birth: Jesus tells you so "Word for word", CHRISTIANS believe the scriptures!

You fool NO ONE!!! All can see your rejecting Jesus and his words as LIES! Christians believe in Jesus! They are Christian because they believe Jesus' words!

Women will be saved through childbearing!!! >>God tells you so!!<<
Atwood To say otherwise is to reject; The Mouth of God as a teller of lies!
FACT: Jesus cannot lie!!!

1 Timothy 2:15
But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

Scriptures are very clear>> WORD FOR WORD!!!! Women will be saved through childbearing


Atwood you MUST REJECT the words of Jesus yet again, every thing you have written so far, is opposed to scriptures!
Your salvation depends on "Trusting in Jesus" you have placed your salvation in a MAN MADE TRADITION opposed to scriptures!

Historical DOCUMENTED FACT: The TEACHING of "Saved by Faith ALONE" first appeared sixteen Hundred years AFTER Jesus! This TEACHING cannot be found in the scriptures it is a MAN MADE TRADITION!!!
Atwood You MUST "Believe In Jesus" .. Jesus said.. women will be saved throughchildbearing

CLEARLY: You do NOT believe in Jesus!

 

[PACEMAKER]

Agree with Hoffco - with the scriptural example being that of Cornelius, the centurion of Acts 10. He was more than just a good man, he feared God, prayed fervently and regularly, and gave to the poor - but he was a lost sinner until he heard the gospel story of Jesus Christ and obeyed that gospel by turning his life over to Christ, and was baptized for the remission of his sins. And yes - God chose to give his Holy Spirit to Cornelius before he was obedient to the gospel. God gives of the Spirit as He wills, and it is not for us to question.

middletexan
If you Believed that Jesus Christ died as a One time Sacrifice
For ALL SINS
Just what Sins does your "water baptism"
Wash Away ?????

When it comes to the matter of our salvation,

the New Testament writers use different Greek words—
words that emphasize the gracious
and absolutely free quality of the gift.
Here are the two words most commonly used
for the gift of salvation:

1) Dorea, meaning “a free gift.”
This word lays particular stress on the gratuitous nature of the gift—
it is something given above and beyond what is expected or deserved.
Every New Testament occurrence of this word is related to a spiritual gift from God.
It is what Jesus offers to the Samaritan woman at the well (John 4:10).
It is called the “free gift” in Romans 5:15.

It is the “unspeakable [or indescribable] gift” in 2 Corinthians 9:15.
This gracious gift is identified as the Holy Spirit

in Acts 2:38; 8:30; and 11:17.

The adverb form of this word is dorean,
translated “freely”
in Matthew 10:8; 2 Corinthians 11:7; Revelation 21:6; 22:17.

In Romans 3:24, immediately following God’s
pronouncement of our guilt,

we have this use of dorean:


“Being justified FREELY by His grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.”


The gift of salvation is free,

and the motive for the gift is nothing more

than the grace of the Giver.
2) Charisma, meaning “a gift of grace.”
This word is used to define salvation in Romans 5:15-16.
Also, in Romans 6:23:“For the wages of sin is death,

but the GIFT [charisma] of God
is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”


This same word is used in conjunction with

the gifts of the Spirit received after salvation
(Romans 12:6; 1 Timothy 4:14; 2 Timothy 1:6; 1 Peter 4:10).

Obviously,
if something is a “gift of grace,”
it cannot be earned.

To work for something is to deserve it,

and that would produce an obligation

a gift of debt, as it were.

That is why works destroy grace (Romans 4:1-5; 11:5-6).

When presenting salvation,
the New Testament writers carefully chose words
that emphasize grace and freedom.


As a result, the Bible could not be more clear—
salvation is absolutely free,
the true gift of God in Christ,
and our only responsibility is
to receive the gift by faith
(John 1:12; 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9).

 

[PACEMAKER]

Originally Posted by Kerry

Did David do right? Did Abraham do right? did Elijah do right? Did Paul struggle with sin? was Peter Baptized in water? was John Baptized in water? were of the 12 baptized in water?.

() inside these is where I explain scripture.

Acts 2: [SUP]36 [/SUP]Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? (They were asking what to do to be saved!!)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (And is a conjunction joining repentance and baptism together to remit sins!!)
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. (There on that day of Pentecost were Peter, John and the rest of the disciples and believe me they gladly received his word and this scripture says those that gladly received were baptized!!!)

Tylerbones1313.... you said,,
Water baptism in Jesus Name was not in effect until Christ died.
All the way up til He (Christ) took his last human breath on earth
we were under the Old Covenant
or some would say Old Testament.
Water baptism is New Testament salvation.


This Scripture CONTRADICTS your statement about the Thief dying before Jesus..

John 19:32 So the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first,
and of the other who had been crucified with him.

33 But when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead,

they did not break his legs.
34 But one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear,
and at once there came out blood and water.

Well what are you going to say Now ????

 

[Dogknox]

Dog, it is redickle-dockle to go on about not believing the Lord because someone disagrees with your interp of an obscure verse.

Now it is certain that giving birth to a baby is not essential to salvation, or all men would be out of luck, except maybe Arnold S. And it is absurd to think that giving birth saves a woman, giving her a new birth & eternal life.

What makes it certain that childbearing is not essential to salvation is all the passages that offer salvation just for believing. And then you must think all the nuns who don't play around in their spare time, go to Hell.

"Let a woman learn in quietness with all subjection. But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve; 1and Adam was not beguiled, but the woman [gynē] being beguiled hath fallen into transgression: but (she/it, no noun subject expressed in Greek) shall be saved through the child-bearing, if they continue in faith and love and sanctification with sobriety. Faithful is the saying, If a man seeketh the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. The bishop therefore must be without reproach, the husband of one wife [gynē] . . . ."

Of course this passage gives a big problem to those who claim to be bishops & are not married to a gynē.

13 Ἀδὰμ γὰρ πρῶτος ἐπλάσθη, εἶτα Εὕα. 14 καὶ Ἀδὰμ οὐκ ἠπατήθη, ἡ δὲ γυνὴ ἐξαπατηθεῖσα ἐν παραβάσει γέγονεν· 15 σωθήσεται δὲ διὰ τῆς τεκνογονίας,

This is one of those passages in Paul which Peter calls hard to understand, a passage that may be twisted by idiots. To me it is an obscure passage.

It is not clear to me that save here means saved from the Lake of Fire to eternal life. It may refer to the function of the woman in general, her function is saved. The "child-bearing" may refer to Christ, the seed of the woman. Salvation does come through Christ.

There is not some special way for women to be saved in the Bible, a way not applicable to men or nuns.

Scripture is abundantly clear: What must I do to be saved?
Answer: Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.

1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER, NO BRATS]
2 Tim 3:15b
the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Titus 1:4
to Titus, my true child after a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Saviour.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Heb 3:19ff
And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. For we who have believed do enter into that rest;
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Heb 10:39
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Heb 11:7

By faith Noah, being warned of God concerning things not seen as yet, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

1 Pet 1:3ff
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials, 7 that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ: 8 whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER][/FONT]

1 John 5:4-5

4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith. 5 And who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Rev 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father . . . . 1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Ps 37:5-6
Commit thy way unto YHWH;
Trust also in him, and he will bring it to pass.
And he will make thy righteousness to go forth as the light,
And thy justice as the noonday.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER, NO BRATS]

Atwood CLEARLY YOU REJECT THE SCRIPTURES yet AGAIN!!

Every one of your posts is a written letter on why the scriptures do not mean what they say word for word! Foolish is an UNDERSTATEMENT!!!!

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]?21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together,and his faith was made complete by what he did.23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend.24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>And not by faith alone<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


YES: Woman are saved by Giving birth: Jesus tells you so "Word for word", CHRISTIANS believe the scriptures!

Atwood You fool NO ONE in your many posts!!! All can see: You are rejecting Jesus and his words, as LIES!

FACT: Christians believe in Jesus! They are Christian because they believe Jesus' words!

Women will be saved through childbearing!!! >>God tells you so!!<<
Atwood To say otherwise is to reject; The Mouth of God as a teller of lies!
FACT: Jesus cannot lie!!!

1 Timothy 2:15
But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

Scriptures are very clear >> WORD FOR WORD!!!!
"Women will be saved through childbearing!"


Atwood you MUST REJECT the words of Jesus yet again, every thing you have written so far, is opposed to scriptures!
Your salvation depends on "Trusting in Jesus" you have placed your salvation in a MAN MADE TRADITION opposed to scriptures!

Historical DOCUMENTED FACT: The TEACHING of "Saved by Faith ALONE" first appeared sixteen Hundred years AFTER Jesus! This TEACHING cannot be found in the scriptures it is a MAN MADE TRADITION!!!
Atwood You MUST "Believe In Jesus" to be CHRISTIAN!
Jesus said.. "Women will be saved through childbearing!"

CLEARLY: You do NOT believe in Jesus!
Not believing the words of Jesus is >>REJECTING JESUS!<<

 

[PACEMAKER]

Atwood CLEARLY YOU REJECT THE SCRIPTURES yet AGAIN!!

Every one of your posts is a written letter on why the scriptures do not mean what they say word for word! Foolish is an UNDERSTATEMENT!!!!

20You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]?21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together,and his faith was made complete by what he did.23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend.24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

YES: Woman are saved by Giving birth: Jesus tells you so "Word for word", CHRISTIANS believe the scriptures!

You fool NO ONE!!! All can see your rejecting Jesus and his words as LIES! Christians believe in Jesus! They are Christian because they believe Jesus' words!

Women will be saved through childbearing!!! >>God tells you so!!<<
Atwood To say otherwise is to reject; The Mouth of God as a teller of lies!
FACT: Jesus cannot lie!!!

1 Timothy 2:15
But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

Scriptures are very clear>> WORD FOR WORD!!!! Women will be saved through childbearing


Atwood you MUST REJECT the words of Jesus yet again, every thing you have written so far, is opposed to scriptures!
Your salvation depends on "Trusting in Jesus" you have placed your salvation in a MAN MADE TRADITION opposed to scriptures!

Historical DOCUMENTED FACT: The TEACHING of "Saved by Faith ALONE" first appeared sixteen Hundred years AFTER Jesus! This TEACHING cannot be found in the scriptures it is a MAN MADE TRADITION!!!
Atwood You MUST "Believe In Jesus" .. Jesus said.. women will be saved throughchildbearing

CLEARLY: You do NOT believe in Jesus!

dogknox.

You are misunderstanding the word “Faith Alone”
What is Meant is ones own Personal "FAITH "

And by NOT Adding Any Physical Work to it..........

And the same is with GRACE

and Not Adding any Physical Work to it .......

Trusting In Jesus Christ Alone


“water baptism” takes TWO People to Accomplish

With Physical Effort to Accompolish this Ritual

And takes the Personal One to One Relationship with God

to a Physical Work to Accomplish

I am Still Waiting for you to Explain

About the Power in the "water"

That comes from your local water supply

Gets Heated Up

And Washes Away Sins ????dogknox, this is what Scriptures Plainly Say
No Guess work on what the words mean

The blood of Christ is the ultimate proof of God's love.

"God demonstrates His own love toward us,
in that while we were still sinners,
Christ died for us.
Much more then,
having now been justified by His blood,
we shall be saved from wrath through Him"
(Romans 5:8,9).

He "loved us
and washed us from our sins in His own blood"
(Revelation 1:5).

CLEARLY i believe IN The BLOOD......

DOGKNOX
You Believe in"water baptism"
to wash Away Sins...
Right ????

Just what Power would your "water baptism" have

with Out Jesus Christ Blood Sacrifice ???

I will Answer it for you Because you have Not Answered me Yet...

NO POWER IN THE "WATER"

 

[Dogknox]

YOU SAID.... You are misunderstanding the word “Faith Alone”
What is Meant is ones own Personal "FAITH "

And by NOT Adding Any Physical Work to it.


I REPLY: LOVE is NOT WORK!

You cannot be saved by "Faith ALONE"! You can only be saved by "Faith PLUS LOVE!"
Love= Good works of the heart!

PACEMAKER God is LOVE, you cannot be saved without GOD!

The teaching of "Saved by Faith ALONE" first came from Martin Luther, He said "Man does not need Church, all man needs is Faith & Scriptures ALONE"!

Clearly HISTORY proves him wrong!
The many thousand of man made churches all claiming to have the only truth, PROVES the idea of "Scriptures are all man needs" is a LIE! Scriptures ALONE causes DIVISION and FRAGMENTATION of the many thousands of man made churches! No one has AUTHORITY to interpret scriptures!

Scriptures tell you; "Jesus gave his CHURCH the AUTHORITY to teach all nations!" Martin Luther was WRONG!!!!! Man needs CHURCH! Church is Jesus' Holy Body! Rejecting the Church is rejecting Jesus!

Same with FAITH ALONE!
God is LOVE: Faith ALONE is faith with out God! Demons have faith without God!
LOOK: The Breastplate of Righteousness is made with LOVE!

But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet.

The WHOLE ARMOR of God is not made with FAITH ALONE!
Faith ALONE is a Shield.. Just a Shield.. There is more to the Armor then just a SHIELD!!
For example; The Helmet is HOPE!!

 

[Atwood]

Atwood CLEARLY YOU REJECT THE SCRIPTURES yet AGAIN!!

Hogwash & shameful libel, Dog.

" the curse that is causeless alighteth not. "

I quote from a journal article on the passage by Andreas J. Köstenberger:

Ascertaining Women’s God-Ordained Roles:

An Interpretation of 1 Timothy 2:15, Bulletin for Biblical Research, 1997:

this pronouncement of the writer of 1 Timothy1 has puzzled commentators of all ages to no end, and agreement can be found in one thing only: that this passage has consistently defied attempts to interpret it, and that consensus on the passage’s meaning is therefore as elusive today as it ever has been. Could the writer of 2 Peter have had this passage in mind when he wrote, “So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures” (2 Pet 3:15b–16)?. . .

A mere cursory glance at the available English translations reveals a confusing array of alternatives, ranging from “women will find their salvation in motherhood” (TCNT) over
“women will get safely through childbirth” (Moffat) to
“she shall be preserved through the bearing of children” (NASB).

Having looked at this passage a bit more now, I find that I agree with Chrysostom's interpretation that it is the race of women meant, & not any particular woman:

“The woman,” he says, “being deceived was in transgression.” What woman? Eve. Shall she then be saved by child-bearing? He does not say that, but, the race of women shall be saved. Was not it then involved in transgression? Yes, it was, still Eve transgressed, but the whole sex shall be saved, notwithstanding, “by childbearing.”

And such being the case, the meaning cannot be that the race of women as a whole go to Heaven (leaving out men!). But the function of woman is preserved through child bearing.

The context is the role of women in general:


I desire therefore that the men [males] pray in every place, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and disputing. In like manner, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefastness and sobriety; not with braided hair, and gold or pearls or costly raiment; but (which becometh women professing godliness) through good works. Let a woman learn in quietness with all subjection. But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness. For Adam was first formed, then Eve; and Adam was not beguiled, but the woman being beguiled hath fallen into transgression: but she shall be preserved through her child-bearing, if they continue in faith and love and sanctification with sobriety. Faithful is the saying, If a man seeketh the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. The bishop therefore must be without reproach, the husband of one wife, . . . ."

Woman as a whole is the topic, not the salvation of individual persons.

Scripture is abundantly clear: What must I do to be saved?
Answer: Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.

Scripture is abundantly clear: What must I do to be saved?
Answer: Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.

1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER, NO BRATS]
2 Tim 3:15b
the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Titus 1:4
to Titus, my true child after a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Saviour.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Heb 3:19ff
And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. For we who have believed do enter into that rest;
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Heb 10:39
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Heb 11:7

By faith Noah, being warned of God concerning things not seen as yet, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

1 Pet 1:3ff
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials, 7 that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ: 8 whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yetbelieving, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 receiving the end of your faith, eventhe salvation of your souls.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER][/FONT][/B

1 John 5:4-5

4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith. 5 And who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Rev 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father . . . . 1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcomesthe world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Ps 37:5-6
Commit thy way unto YHWH;
Trust also in him, and he will bring it to pass.
And he will make thy righteousness to go forth as the light,
And thy justice as the noonday.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER, NO BRATS]

[/COLOR][/SIZE]

 

[Atwood]

LOVE is NOT WORK!

All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. Romans 1-3 clearly indicates that the natural man has nothing good. Natural man is selfish. Your only hope of escape is re-creation by the Lord Jesus, Who will then give you the HOly Spirit who can produce the fruit of love in your life (Gal 5).

NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST.

SAVED BY FAITH ALONE COMES FROM THE TON OF SCRIPTURES THAT REPEAT IT OVER & OVER.

Rejecting the Church is rejecting Jesus!

If so, then you need to stop rejecting both; repent of idolatry & trust the Savior.

You go on about demons having faith. No they do not have faith in God.
They believe facts, which is off the subject. Believing facts is not the topic. It is trusting a Savior.

Believe on the Lord Jesus, & you SHALL BE SAVED!

 

[Atwood]

Wait, wait, wait - if faith is a human act, doesn't that make it a 'work'? [/QUOTE]

Scripture makes faith & works opposite poles & mutually exclusive:

For by grace you have been saved through faith . . . not of works.

There is no point in arguing over words. Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved. This is the only thing required of man over & over. Do it instead of arguing about it.

#2: Baptism is not an 'act' or 'work' - it is done/performed by someone other than the one being baptized. When I was baptized, I did nothing, but baptism was done to me.

Water immersion is a human work. Human works do not save. Spirit baptism, on the other hand, is not a human work at all; and it requires no human cooperation. You trust Christ as Savior; then you are Spirit baptized whether you know about it or not -- you are added to the Body of Christ.

Over & over salvation is offered just for believing, having faith, trusting the Savior.

 

[Atwood]

The Background to the current debate is found in Romans 1-3 where total lack of good works is described; man having no good works until he is saved, cannot be saved by good works.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes [ruling out essential additions to faith];
to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith to faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.


18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all
ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,

who hinder the truth in unrighteousness; 19 because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse: 21 because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became
vain in their reasonings, and
their senseless heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became
fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.


24 Wherefore God gave them up in
the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves: 25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.


26 For this cause God gave them up unto
vile passions:
for their women changed the natural use into that which is
against nature:
27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.


28 And even as
they refused to have God in their knowledge,
God gave them up unto
a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being
filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, unmerciful:
32 who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also consent with them that practise them.


2:1 Wherefore thou art without excuse, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for
thou that judgest dost practise the same things.
2 And we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against them that practise such things. 3 And reckonest thou this, O man, who judgest them that practise such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 4 Or
despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 but after
thy hardness and impenitent heart
treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 who will render to every man according to his works: 7 to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life: 8 but unto them that are factious, and obey not the truth, but obey unrighteousness, shall be wrath and indignation, 9 tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek; 10 but glory and honor and peace to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek: 11 for there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law; . . .


17 But if thou bearest the name of a Jew, and restest upon the law, and gloriest in God, . . .
thou therefore that teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 22 thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou rob temples? 23 thou who gloriest in the law, through
thy transgression of the law dishonorest thou God? . . .


5 But if our unrighteousness commendeth the righteousness of God, what shall we say? . . .


9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we before laid to the charge both of Jews and Greeks, that they are
all under sin;
10 as it is written,
There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none that understandeth,
There is none that seeketh after God;
12 They have
all turned aside, they are
together become unprofitable;
There is none that doeth good, no, not so much as one:
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre;
With their tongues they have used deceit:
The poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.


19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it speaketh to them that are under the law; that
every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God: 20 because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight;
for through the law cometh the knowledge of sin.


21 But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22
even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;

23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;
24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus. 27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law?
of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

 

[MsSpratt]

[NO WORKS, NO WATER, NO BRATS]
2 Tim 3:15b
the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.…

sacred writings?

 

[MsSpratt]

The Background to the current debate is found in Romans 1-3 where total lack of good works is described; man having no good works until he is saved, cannot be saved by good works.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes [ruling out essential additions to faith];
to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith to faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.


18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all
ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,

who hinder the truth in unrighteousness; 19 because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse: 21 because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became
vain in their reasonings, and
their senseless heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became
fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.


24 Wherefore God gave them up in
the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves: 25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.


26 For this cause God gave them up unto
vile passions:
for their women changed the natural use into that which is
against nature:
27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.


28 And even as
they refused to have God in their knowledge,
God gave them up unto
a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being
filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, unmerciful:
32 who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also consent with them that practise them.


2:1 Wherefore thou art without excuse, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for
thou that judgest dost practise the same things.
2 And we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against them that practise such things. 3 And reckonest thou this, O man, who judgest them that practise such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 4 Or
despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 but after
thy hardness and impenitent heart
treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 who will render to every man according to his works: 7 to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life: 8 but unto them that are factious, and obey not the truth, but obey unrighteousness, shall be wrath and indignation, 9 tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek; 10 but glory and honor and peace to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek: 11 for there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law; . . .


17 But if thou bearest the name of a Jew, and restest upon the law, and gloriest in God, . . .
thou therefore that teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 22 thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou rob temples? 23 thou who gloriest in the law, through
thy transgression of the law dishonorest thou God? . . .


5 But if our unrighteousness commendeth the righteousness of God, what shall we say? . . .


9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we before laid to the charge both of Jews and Greeks, that they are
all under sin;
10 as it is written,
There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none that understandeth,
There is none that seeketh after God;
12 They have
all turned aside, they are
together become unprofitable;
There is none that doeth good, no, not so much as one:
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre;
With their tongues they have used deceit:
The poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.


19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it speaketh to them that are under the law; that
every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God: 20 because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight;
for through the law cometh the knowledge of sin.


21 But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22
even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;

23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;
24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus. 27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law?
of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

 

[MsSpratt]

The teaching of "Saved by Faith ALONE" first came from Martin Luther, He said "Man does not need Church, all man needs is Faith & Scriptures ALONE"!

he was talking about the Medieval Catholic Church.

"excommunicated Catholics are still considered to be members of the church, and thus considered bound by their obligations of membership such as attending Mass or Fasting seasonally." - new commentary on the code of [RC] canon law

 

[MsSpratt]

wrong interpretation.

the immediate context is that, rather than abandoning their intended roles by demanding teaching and authoritative positions in the church, women will find true fulfillment through childbearing. Paul is saying God calls women to be faithful, helpful wives, raising children to love and worship God and managing the household wisely.

 

[Atwood]

And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.…
sacred writings?

Good morning Miss Jaqueline Spratt,

As a preliminary it should be observed that saving faith is not mere belief that some fact it so;
it is trusting in the Lord Jesus.

< Ps 37:
Commit thy way unto YHWH;
Trust also in him, and he will bring it to pass.
And He will make thy righteousness to go forth as the light,
And thy justice as the noonday.

Hezekiah illustrates saving faith:

"Thus saith the king [of Assyria], Let not Hezekiah deceive you; for he will not be able to deliver you out of his hand: neither let Hezekiah make you trust in Jehovah, saying, Jehovah will surely deliver us, and this city shall not be given into the hand of the king of Assyria."

"He trusted in Jehovah, the God of Israel; so that after him was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor among them that were before him. 6 For he clave to Jehovah"

Only 1 Way of Salvation in the Bible

As a 2nd Preliminary, it should be noted that (aside from narrowing the object of faith to the 2nd person of the Trinity) there are not different ways to be saved in different dispensations of Bible History. Water immersion has never saved; and certainly there is hint in the OT that water immersion saves.

Proof of that:
1) Abraham is the great example of how to be saved/justified, used in the NT; but Abe is an OT character, justified by faith apart from any works (including water works).
2) A key passage on salvation in the NT is Romans 10:13-14 where it is a call of belief which saves: For whosoever shall call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved. But that is an OT quote from Joel.
Corrolary:
If you make the fallacious argument that the way to be saved changed at the cross or at Pentecost (Acts 2), then you may not argue from John 3 about Nicodemus that John 3 tells Nicodemus to be water-immersed for salvation.

As to Mark 16:

1) Spirit Baptism is salvific, but
2) Water is not mentioned in your verse.
3) A ton of verses offer salvation for faith with no ref to water immersion.
4) God does not false advertise.
5) Thus nothing besides believe/faith/trust in the Savior can be essential to salvation.
6) Whosoever believes rules out any thing essential to salvation beside believe.
7) Ur vs condemns the non-believer, not the unbaptized.

8) Ur vs is of the form:
If A + B, then C.
If not A, then not C.
From that it is a fallacy to deduce: If not B, then not C.
Illustration: If a man finds gold & brushes his teeth, he will be rich.

9) Human works do not save. Immersion is a human work. Therefore, immersion does not save.
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast.

10) Verses which put in juxtaposition baptism and salvation are rare; thus not the place to start.

11) Verses which offer salvation merely for believing/faith/trusting the Lord Jesus are too abundant to be accepted in one post on this forum.

There is but one MUST I DO for salvation.
Do you believe God's offer of free salvation to Whosoever believes?

Sirs, What must I do to be saved?
Answer: Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.

Are the following sacred writings?

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER][/FONT]

Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rom 4:1ff

:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith says thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus[/B], that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Gal 3:

This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? 4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. 5 He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or
by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as
Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. 9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham.

For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continues not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one who hangs on a tree: that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Gal 3:22ff

But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Gal 5:5-6

For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

 

[Atwood]

Those who accepted his message were baptized [water not mentioned], and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

"I indeed baptize you in water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire"

Acts 1
" and, being assembled together with them, he charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, said he, ye heard from me: 5 for John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days hence."

Acts 2

nd when the day of Pentecost was now come, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly there came from heaven a sound as of the rushing of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them tongues parting asunder, like as of fire; and it sat upon each one of them. 4 And they were all filled
with the Holy Spirit,

1 Cor 12:12-13

For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of the body, being many, are one body; so also is Christ. For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit.

 

[Dogknox]

wrong interpretation.

the immediate context is that, rather than abandoning their intended roles by demanding teaching and authoritative positions in the church, women will find true fulfillment through childbearing. Paul is saying God calls women to be faithful, helpful wives, raising children to love and worship God and managing the household wisely.

MsSpratt I reply: NO you are saying>>> "Childbearing does NOT SAVE"! NOT Paul, he is saying "Woman will be saved by CHILDBEARING!!!!!"
You are putting words in the mouth of Jesus! Scriptures say; Word for word "Woman will be saved by CHILDBEARING!!!!!"

You are TEACHING!!!!!!
What gives you any AUTHORITY to teach a thing!!?? You can't TEACH and at the same time declare "ONLY the SCRIPTURES are the authority to teach us!"???
MsSpratt You are acting as a little pope, as all other man made churches; their pastors also TEACH with AUTHORITY as little popes!?

The protesting pastor stands up at the front TEACHING with AUTHORITY>> "Only the Scriptures are the AUTHORITY to teach"!!!?? Whack-whack-whackOOooh

MsSpratt The TEACHING of "Man does NOT need Church all man needs is the Scriptures and FAITH ALONE" is a Man made TRADITION!
It is a TRADITION because this TEACHING is not found in the scriptures! UNTIL...
Until Martin Luther and his PROTEST the "TEACHING" was unheard of!

 

[Atwood]

CORRECTION TO A TYPO BELOW,
WHERE I LEFT OUT "NO"

certainly there is NO hint in the OT that water immersion saves.

Only 1 Way of Salvation in the Bible

As a 2nd Preliminary, it should be noted that (aside from narrowing the object of faith to the 2nd person of the Trinity) there are not different ways to be saved in different dispensations of Bible History. Water immersion has never saved; and certainly there is [NO] hint in the OT that water immersion saves.

Proof of that:
1) Abraham is the great example of how to be saved/justified, used in the NT; but Abe is an OT character, justified by faith apart from any works (including water works).

2) A key passage on salvation in the NT is Romans 10:13-14 where it is a call of belief which saves: For whosoever shall call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved. But that is an OT quote from Joel.

Corrolary:
If you make the fallacious argument that the way to be saved changed at the cross or at Pentecost (Acts 2), then you may not argue from John 3 about Nicodemus that John 3 tells Nicodemus to be water-immersed for salvation.

. . .

Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus[/B], that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Gal 3:

This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? 4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. 5 He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or
by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as
Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. 9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham.

For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continues not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one who hangs on a tree: that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Gal 3:22ff

But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Gal 5:5-6

For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]