Baptism symbol only ?

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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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newbirth, Just WHAT did you Believe About Jesus Christ

BEFORE you were "water baptized" ??????


I can't answer for newbirth, but I can answer for myself. THE EXACT SAME THING THAT I BELIEVED BEFORE I WAS BAPTIZED. Water Baptism is a step in our WALK OF OBEDIENCE, NOT PART OF OUR SALVATION.
 
Mar 28, 2014
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I can't answer for newbirth, but I can answer for myself. THE EXACT SAME THING THAT I BELIEVED BEFORE I WAS BAPTIZED. Water Baptism is a step in our WALK OF OBEDIENCE, NOT PART OF OUR SALVATION.
then your baptism was for the wrong reason...

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Acts 19:3-6King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


Acts 2:37-41King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.




Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.


Acts 10:47-48King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]47 [/SUP]Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

[SUP]48 [/SUP]And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,887
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then your baptism was for the wrong reason...

do you need Jesus at all for anything?

or does H[SUB]2[/SUB]O baptism cure what ails ya?

it might be that your baptism was for the wrong reason too.
 
Mar 28, 2014
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do you need Jesus at all for anything?

or does H[SUB]2[/SUB]O baptism cure what ails ya?

it might be that your baptism was for the wrong reason too.
[h=1]Acts 2:37-41King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]37 [/SUP]Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,887
13,206
113
we've been around this block 100 times, so let's just sum it up:

Acts 2:37-41King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]37 [/SUP]Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

"be baptized" - untranslated transliteration of "baptizo" - meaning "be immersed"

"be immersed" in what?

Remain in me, as I also remain in you.
No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine.
Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

(John 15:4)

how are sins remitted?

without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.
(Hebrews 9:22)

what blood is shed in a mikveh?
but where was blood shed?

For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,
and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven,
making peace by the blood of his cross.

(Colossians 1:19-20)

was Christ's baptism with H[SUB]2[/SUB]O or through blood?

"You don't know what you are asking," Jesus said.
"
Can you drink the cup I drink or be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with?"
(Mark 10:38)

how can a baptism that is not with blood then be of any value?

and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also -- not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.
(1 Peter 3:21)

symbolizes??

Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
(Romans 6:3)

if it was an earthly baptism that baptized us into death, we would be in the grave - can it be that this is a symbolic act of a spiritual reality? does that sort of thing exist? scripturally?

It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence.

(Hebrews 9:23-24)

now is a baptismal font or mikveh or pond the "true sanctuary" where sins are remitted or merely a copy?

so is immersion in H[SUB]2[/SUB]O of any value whatsoever except in that it is a like figure of the immersion that truly saves?

when you were baptized in H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, did you trust your redemption to God or to a ritual? to spiritual things or fleshly things?

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(John 3:6)

Then I remembered what the Lord had said:
'
John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'

(Acts 11:16)

This is what the LORD says:
"Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who draws strength from mere flesh
and whose heart turns away from the LORD."

(Jeremiah 17:5)


 
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SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
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113

and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also -- not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.
(1 Peter 3:21)

symbolizes??

Oh wow. Great post. There it was, right in front of our nose.
 
P

PACEMAKER

Guest
Acts 2:37-41King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]37 [/SUP]Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
newbirth. Have you read these Scriptures that Completely Contradict
your Belief About the Power of "water baptism"??????
FOR the Remission of Sins

Already Forgiven: Here are some verses that show clearly that the sins of all people
were forgiven and forgotten
on the Cross of Christ.

it is the
gift of righteousness that you must accept by faith (Romans 5:17,18).

All are forgiven, but not all are saved.



17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man,
how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision
of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!


18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also ONE righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.



2 Corinthians 5:19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself,
not counting their trespasses against them
,
and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.



Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their iniquities,
and
I will remember their sins no more.


Colossians 1:20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself,
having made peace through the blood of His cross
;
through Him, I say, whether things on
earth or things in heaven.


Mark 3:28 Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men
Hebrews 10:12 but He, having offered ONE sacrifice for sins for all time,
sat down at the right hand of God.



Romans 5:10a For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ...
(Notice this verse says we were reconciled while we "were" enemies,
not after we become friends with God.)




Hebrews 2:9b ... Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor,
that by the grace of God
He might taste death for everyone.


Hebrews 9:26b ... but now once at the consummation of the ages He (Jesus)
has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself
.


John 1:29 The next day he (John the Baptist) saw Jesus coming to him and said,
"Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"


I John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins;
and not for ours only,
but also for those of the
whole world.

newbirth, Now please Explain just What Sins
Your "water baptism"
Takes Away ??????

Do you Believe that Jesus Christ Once for the Sins of the World ???
 
Mar 28, 2014
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newbirth. Have you read these Scriptures that Completely Contradict
your Belief About the Power of "water baptism"??????
FOR the Remission of Sins

they don't


Already Forgiven
: Here are some verses that show clearly that the sins of all people
were forgiven and forgotten
on the Cross of Christ.

it is the
gift of righteousness that you must accept by faith (Romans 5:17,18).

All are forgiven, but not all are saved.
according to your statement 'all are forgiven' then no man has any sin...we are all sinless because our sins are forgiven..
we are informed Christ paid for our sins...we are informed of what we must do to receive remission of sins...
forgiveness is available to all men ...not all men will do what is necessary to receive it







17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man,
how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision
of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!


18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also ONE righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.



2 Corinthians 5:19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself,
not counting their trespasses against them
,
and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.



Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their iniquities,
and
I will remember their sins no more.


Colossians 1:20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself,
having made peace through the blood of His cross
;
through Him, I say, whether things on
earth or things in heaven.


Mark 3:28 Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men
Hebrews 10:12 but He, having offered ONE sacrifice for sins for all time,
sat down at the right hand of God.
Romans 5:10a For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ...
(Notice this verse says we were reconciled while we "were" enemies,
not after we become friends with God.)
quote the scripture properly
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Hebrews 2:9b ... Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor,
that by the grace of God
He might taste death for everyone.


Hebrews 9:26b ... but now once at the consummation of the ages He (Jesus)
has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself
.


John 1:29 The next day he (John the Baptist) saw Jesus coming to him and said,
"Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"


I John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins;
and not for ours only,
but also for those of the
whole world.
newbirth, Now please Explain just What Sins
Your "water baptism"
Takes Away ??????

Do you Believe that Jesus Christ Once for the Sins of the World ???
let us assume you want to feed all men a free meal....you broadcast the message all over the world ....men must wash their hands and change their clothes when they come to receive their free meal....you prepare water and a change of clothing for all men...
Does that make the free meal not free?
Does it mean the free meal is not available to all men?
Is there another way to get the meal without washing and changing?
Would you be pleased if someone comes and tell people they can get the free meal without washing and changing?
Would it be true if people say that your meal is not free because they have to wash and change before they receive it?
Would it not be foolish to assume that washing and changing can pay for a meal?

Christ died for our sins...he said repent and be baptised for the remission of sins....
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Mark 16 mentions no water.
If A & B, then C;
If not A, then not C;
Illogical fallacy to conclude: If not B, then not C
(Logic 101).

FOR (EIS) has many meanings; not necessarily purpose.
English example, "He shouted for joy." (Man did not shout to obtain joy).

Acts 2 never mentions water with baptism; context is Spirit Baptism.

And it shall be, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Acts 2:21

Whosoever rules out any essential addition. This is a call of faith.




Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Spirit baptism is what adds persons to the Body of Christ, not water immersion.

It is straw man to post verses in this context which direct believers to get baptized, as no one I have read has objected to water baptism. However, if you give it translated immersion, you may get opposition as there may be some sprinklers around.

Water immersion cannot save. The Bible never says that is saves. It is a human work, & human works cannot save.

Over & over the Bible offers salvation for ONLY BELIEVE, nothing else. Such language as whosoever /everyone who / all who believe(s), rules out any essential addition.

whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. -- how shall they call on Him in Whom they have not believed (Rom 10:13-14)

Act 13:48
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]


Acts 15:8

And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Acts 16:31a
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, . . . .
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Acts 26:18b

that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
let us assume you want to feed all men a free meal....you broadcast the message all over the world ....men must wash their hands and change their clothes when they come to receive their free meal....you prepare water and a change of clothing for all men...
Does that make the free meal not free?
Does it mean the free meal is not available to all men?
Take the liar to court and make him give the free meal if it is offered free & then not given upon demand. Your illustration is faulty as the free gift is the washing of their being & the changing of their clothes. (We can see God killing the animal like Christ's death to provide Adam with clothes.) God provided the new clothes by giving Adam the skin-clothes. Adam did not have to put on the animal skins to get the animal skins.

The content of salvation is a new recreated being with new clothes. You don't recreate yourself & put on the new clothes before salvation. God is the Savior, not you. You don't wash yourself first; washing is the regeneration by God. You cannot wash yourself first; only God can wash you.
 
Mar 28, 2014
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we've been around this block 100 times, so let's just sum it up:



"be baptized" - untranslated transliteration of "baptizo" - meaning "be immersed"

"be immersed" in what?

Acts 2:37-41King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.


be immersed in water...Peter does not have the power to Spirit baptise....
he is saying to be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ....he is not saying be spirit baptised.....



Remain in me, as I also remain in you.
No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine.
Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

(John 15:4)
nothing to do with baptism



how are sins remitted?


Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,


without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

(Hebrews 9:22)

The blood was shed on Calvary
he says be baptised for remission


what blood is shed in a mikveh?
but where was blood shed?
Christ does not shed his blood everytime a sinner repents...



For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,
and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven,
making peace by the blood of his cross.

(Colossians 1:19-20)

Does not say don't be baptised

was Christ's baptism with H[SUB]2[/SUB]O or through blood?
"You don't know what you are asking," Jesus said.
"
Can you drink the cup I drink or be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with?"
(Mark 10:38)

how can a baptism that is not with blood then be of any value?

was Christ baptism in water of no value?
Christ was baptised by water and blood



and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also -- not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.
(1 Peter 3:21)

symbolizes??



go back and read ....this water is referring to the flood water...the flood water is a symbol of baptism that now saves you...




Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

(Romans 6:3)

if it was an earthly baptism that baptized us into death, we would be in the grave - can it be that this is a symbolic act of a spiritual reality? does that sort of thing exist? scripturally?

the scripture says buried with him in baptism...nothing about grave...Spirit does not bury anyone nor kill them


It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence.

(Hebrews 9:23-24)
nothing about baptism...it shows Christ paying the penalty for sins of the world with his blood...you have to repent and be baptised for the remission your sins

now is a baptismal font or mikveh or pond the "true sanctuary" where sins are remitted or merely a copy?
what sanctuary are you talking about???? sins are not remitted in a sanctuary
did you not quote Christ entered heaven itself the true sanctuary.....that has nothing to do with baptism....sins are remitted at repentance and baptism...

so is immersion in H[SUB]2[/SUB]O of any value whatsoever except in that it is a like figure of the immersion that truly saves?
we are saved by grace through faith....ask Christ why he was water baptised ....You say it has no value....

when you were baptized in H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, did you trust your redemption to God or to a ritual? to spiritual things or fleshly things?
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(John 3:6)


I trust in Christ or my redemption....was not your baptism for a show?



Then I remembered what the Lord had said:
'
John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'

(Acts 11:16)


is says you will be baptised with the HS...not you will baptise with the HS



This is what the LORD says:
"Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who draws strength from mere flesh
and whose heart turns away from the LORD."

(Jeremiah 17:5)


The Lord also says....
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,887
13,206
113

be immersed in water...Peter does not have the power to Spirit baptise....


Peter doesn't have power to save your soul either.
only Jesus.

works of man or works of God?
an evangelist or Jesus the Christ?


he is saying to be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ.
that's what i'm saying too.

Remain in me, as I also remain in you.
No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine.
Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

(John 15:4)

nothing to do with baptism

everything to do with "immersion" = "baptizo" and everything to do with salvation.
nothing to do with H[SUB]2[/SUB]O


Christ does not shed his blood everytime a sinner repents...
neither does He shed His blood every time someone gets their hair wet. one sacrifice was sufficient for all :)


Does not say don't be baptised

neither do i. you know that.
why do you still falsely accuse me?



is says you will be baptised with the HS...not you will baptise with the HS
the true baptism that saves is by the hand of God, not by human hands, just as is the true circumcision.


my friend, when did your H[SUB]2[/SUB]O baptism begin? was it the moment you decided to be baptized? was it the moment you asked to be baptized? was it the moment you stepped forward to be baptized? was it the moment you put on a robe? was it the moment your foot touched the water? was it the moment your face became wet?

the moment you first believed in your heart that Jesus is Lord is the moment that you were washed in His blood.

Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved
(Acts 16:31)
 
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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,985
4,604
113
then your baptism was for the wrong reason...

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
. . . .

Then your belief is in the WRONG Baptism, and you still are not born again:

1 Corinthians 12:13 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

It is NOT the immersion into water that SAVES, it is the immersion into the spiritual body of CHRIST that SAVES, which happens the MOMENT you first BELIEVE, long before you climb into the Baptistry. THUS even the Thief on the Cross received the spiritual baptism that SAVES.
 
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Then your belief is in the WRONG Baptism, and you still are not born again:

1 Corinthians 12:13 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

It is NOT the immersion into water that SAVES, it is the immersion into the spiritual body of CHRIST that SAVES, which happens the MOMENT you first BELIEVE, long before you climb into the Baptistry. THUS even the Thief on the Cross received the spiritual baptism that SAVES.
faith without works is dead bro ....
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

you simply do not understand the word.....believed ,baptised, added....if when one believes ....he is automatically baptised into Christ...and thus saved.....why the need for water? why the need to repent?

according to you vs 41...is wrong....it should be ...then that gladly received his word were added and the same day there were baptised about three thousand.....

the scripture says ...buried with him in baptism....we are not being buried with the risen Christ.....one must submit themselves to God as Christ did in his death and the power of God raises him as He did Christ.....you want to add yourself to God by just believing....

the scripture says..[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: it does not say they believe or repented in this verse....does it mean they did not believe or they did not repent...????.....but the verse shows baptism as the major criteria for receiving the word...and also addition to the Church...
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48


Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

The blood was shed on Calvary
he says be baptised for remission

Does not say don't be baptised
For $64,000, backquote where someone here said not to be baptized.
NewB, why do you go on like that as if pretending that someone said not to be baptized???

Here is what He says:

John came, who baptized in the wilderness and preached the baptism of repentance [change of mind] unto remission of sins.

this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many unto remission of sins.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]


Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer, and rise again from the dead the third day; 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name unto all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]


Acts 10:43 To him bear all the prophets witness, that through his name every one that believeth on him shall receive remission of sins.

Acts 26: that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.
[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Acts 10:43 To him bear all the prophets witness, that through his name
everyone that believeth on him shall receive remission of sins.

"Everyone who believes" rules out any essential added to believing.

Μετανοήσατε, [φησίν,] καὶ βαπτισθήτω ἕκαστος ὑμῶν ἐπὶ τῷ ὀνόματι Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ εἰς ἄφεσιν τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ὑμῶν καὶ λήμψεσθε τὴν δωρεὰν τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος.
[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Change your minds
and be baptized each of you
upon the name of Jesus Christ
εἰς remission of your sins.

1) NO WATER MENTIONED!
The baptism in context is Spirit baptism.

2) Repent & be baptized eis remission of your sins.

If A & B, then C.
But if A (& not B), then also C.

Repent is the essential, not water.
(Repent = change mind from non-belief to belief).

For the text says, everyone that believeth on him shall receive remission of sins.

Everyone, whatever else may or may not be true.
The only essential is believe; repent is change of mind from not believing to believing.

Moreover, where is your proof that eis means for the purpose of receiving?




 
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Change your minds
and be baptized each of you
upon the name of Jesus Christ
εἰς remission of your sins.

1) NO WATER MENTIONED!
The baptism in context is Spirit baptism.

2) Repent & be baptized eis remission of your sins.

If A & B, then C.
But if A (& not B), then also C.

Repent is the essential, not water.
(Repent = change mind from non-belief to belief).
....No water mentioned so that makes it spirit.???
no mention of repent here ....no mention of believe...but baptism is mentioned...those that you consider essential is not mentioned but that which is not is mentioned...why???
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.


For the text says, everyone that believeth on him shall receive remission of sins.

Everyone, whatever else may or may not be true.
The only essential is believe; repent is change of mind from not believing to believing.

Moreover, where is your proof that eis means for the purpose of receiving?

In Acts 2:38 (KJV), Peter said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR (Greek eis) the remission of sins." According to one source, eis is translated in this way in the King James Version:
Into – 571 times
To -- 282 times
Unto -- 208 times
In -- 131 times
For -- 91 times
On -- 57 times
Toward -- 32 times
That -- 30 times
Against -- 25 times
Upon -- 25 times
At -- 20 times
Among -- 16 times
Concerning -- 5 times
“because of” – 0 times
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,887
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Change your minds
and be baptized each of you
upon the name of Jesus Christ
εἰς remission of your sins.



....No water mentioned so that makes it spirit.???


do you believe that we are baptized by spirit at all?
do you believe H2O the only medium of baptism in our lives?



no mention of repent here ....no mention of believe...but baptism is mentioned...those that you consider essential is not mentioned but that which is not is mentioned...why???

what do you mean, no mention of "repent" ??
this is Acts 2:38 Atwood quoted. guess what "change your mind" means... you should know, you quote it a lot.

as to why "believe" isn't specifically stated here - we're picking apart word by word what was part of an entire oration. the danger in doing that is forgetting the larger context. no single handful of words here gives us complete doctrine or a complete picture. the Bible is 66 books long, not one verse long. lots of trees make up a forest.
have a look at Acts 3:36-37 for example, very near to this verse! Peter told the people of Christ, and they were cut to the heart by what he said - this is believing - and asked what they should now do?
isn't it obvious that they believed, and that's why they asked him what they ought to do?


[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
do ya think they obediently did this in unbelief?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,887
13,206
113
speaking of "larger context" -- one thing that strikes me about the book of Acts is that it is evident the apostles, Peter included, did not immediately comprehend the full mystery of the gospel.

Peter in particular, before the events at Cornelius' house, was still of a mind that some foods were unclean and that Gentiles were also not to be consorted with or preached to.
in hindsight we can see that he ought to have understood his thinking was false - Christ had already declared all foods clean, Isaiah had foretold that the Gentiles would be brought in, and Christ had also told them that the good news was also for the Gentile. He said "
Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation." but Peter still needed to later be given 3 visions just to convince him to go and speak to a single Gentile household.

how similar we are to the apostles! they are men, just like us.

and so when Peter is recounting the events at Cornelius' house, and he describes how that the Holy Spirit was poured out on them as soon as they heard and believed, the work of God Himself demonstrates to Peter that he was understanding incorrectly that the Spirit was only given at baptism.

this is Peter telling us he had not at first understood completely the work of God, even though he had heard it and believed it and been obedient to it:
Then I remembered what the Lord had said:
'
John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
(Acts 11:16)

'
then i remembered' he said. this means that before, he had not kept it in mind.

remember, this is the same Peter who the Lord often rebuked. he had not understood at first how that Christ had to be handed over and crucified -
'
nay, Lord!' he said. 'get thee behind me, Satan!' said Christ.
'
i will never deny you!' Peter said. 'three times before the rooster crows' said Christ.
Peter drew a sword at the garden. '
put away your sword' said Christ.
'
this food is unclean' said Peter. 'rise, kill and eat' said Christ.
'
the Gentiles are unclean' said Peter. 'go with these men' said Christ.

see how that if we quote a little bit of Peter's words here and there and ignore the rest of the testament, we are deceived?

now in Acts - Peter said '
believe, repent and be baptized, and you will receive the Holy Spirit'
and God showed him how that He Himself gave the Spirit when they had done naught but believe.

Peter learned, like we learn, by being in error, being rebuked, and considering these things.
so while he had formerly said 'believe in the Lord Jesus Christ; repent and be baptized for the remission of sins'
he later wrote to the believers that the baptism that saves us is '
not the putting off of filth from the flesh, but the answer of a clear conscience before God'

it saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

the Holy Spirit is not just a name tag we receive after we fill out a registration card. it is a living and active spirit that does things in our lives. it is the down payment and assurance of our hope.

the Spirit is the medium by which Christ baptizes us. do you believe this?

I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.
(Mark 1:8)




 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Acts 2:37-41King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]37 [/SUP]Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

So why didn't you receive the Holy Spirit? I sense, no oneness of our human spirits and the Holy Spirit in you, and do with ALL BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS and in them I can sense the Holy Spirit being there in there hearts.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
Why, would Peter,GOD, say "baptism does save" if it is a lie. GOD NEVER LIES! God is obvious giving us a little incite about the nature of SALVATION 101. We must have a good conscience, If our heart condemns us, SO, will God.! Love Hoffco