Baptism symbol only ?

[newbirth]

Trying to impose love into how a man gets saved doesn't work, as scripture doesn't teach it, & since man cannot love until He is saved. Love is the fruit of the Spirit. This discussion is not about the things a man should do; this discussion is about how to get saved. And that is ever only by faith on man's part.

We are not obsessing on rare verses which demand some explanation (does someone really think that women can be salvation for having a baby?);
we are focusing upon the repeated & overwhelming testimony of the Lord in His word, how salvation is offered over & over for faith/believing. The Savior must be trusted.

THE PASTORAL EPISTLES PROCLAIM SALVATION ALONE BY FAITH

1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

2 Tim 3:15b
the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Titus 1:4
to Titus, my true child after a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Saviour.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

when you look at the weather channel and the weatherman say it is going to rain...if you believe what he says you prepare ,umbrella, raincoat ect...if you do not believe you do nothing
if he predicts snow and you believe you prepare winter coat ,earmuffs ect...if you don't believe you do nothing....
How is with Christ you want to believe and do nothing....and if you don't believe you do nothing...

Christ commanded us to preach repentance and remission of sins in his name....is that what you are teaching?...that is what Peter taught......works and water

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. [SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

 

[PACEMAKER]

when you look at the weather channel and the weatherman say it is going to rain...if you believe what he says you prepare ,umbrella, raincoat ect...if you do not believe you do nothing
if he predicts snow and you believe you prepare winter coat ,earmuffs ect...if you don't believe you do nothing....
How is with Christ you want to believe and do nothing....and if you don't believe you do nothing...

Christ commanded us to preach repentance and remission of sins in his name....is that what you are teaching?...that is what Peter taught......works and water

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. [SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

newbirth, Just WHAT did you Believe About Jesus Christ

BEFORE you were "water baptized" ??????

 

[newbirth]

newbirth, Just WHAT did you Believe About Jesus Christ

BEFORE you were "water baptized" ??????

that Jesus Christ is the son of God.....he died so that I could be redeemed from sins and I must be born again into his kingdom and receive the HS......according to the promise...and continue faithfully in his word
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

 

[newbirth]

newbirth, Just WHAT did you Believe About Jesus Christ

BEFORE you were "water baptized" ??????

Paul asked a similar question... Acts 19:

And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And all the men were about twelve.

 

[PACEMAKER]

that Jesus Christ is the son of God.....he died so that I could be redeemed from sins and I must be born again into his kingdom and receive the HS......according to the promise...and continue faithfully in his word
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

newbirth; did you realize that you did Not use the Words
"Believe" or "Faith" or "Repent" or "Trust"or "Sin"
in telling me about what you knew about Jesus Christ
BEFORE you were "water baptized"

Is there a Reason for that ???

You also said "that you were to Continue Faithfully in His Word"
{ the "h" should have been Capitalized....}
What do you mean by this ??You said " he died so that I could be redeemed from sins
{ the "h" should have been Capitalized....}

This Scripture contradicts you statement..

Romans 5 New International Version (NIV) [h=3]Peace and Hope[/h] 5 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith,
we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2 through whom we have gained access by faith
into this grace in which we now stand.
And we boast in the hope of the glory of God.
3 Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings,
because we know that suffering produces perseverance;
4 perseverance, character; and character, hope.
5 And hope does not put us to shame,
because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts
through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.


6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless,
Christ died for the ungodly.

7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person,
though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die.

8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this:
While we were still sinners,
Christ died for us.


9 Since we have now been justified by his blood,
how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!

10 For if, while we were God’s enemies,
we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son,
how much more, having been reconciled,
shall we be saved through his life!
11 Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
through whom we have now received reconciliation.


According to these verses "we have now been justified by his blood, "
About 2000 years ago

So, What sins does "water baptism" wash away ?????

So, this is How one Receives "the Promise"
If one Believes "The Gospel" ????


Mark 1:15 "The time is here, and the kingdom of God is at hand.
Repent, and believe in the gospel."

1Cor 15:1-4 The gospel is that Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that He was buried, and then He was resurrected on the third day.

Romans 6: [SUP]23 [/SUP]For the wages of sin is death,
but the gift of God
is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 4:25-5:2 He was delivered over to death for our sins
and then was raised to life to put us right with God.
By faith in this, then, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
through whom we have gained access by faith
into this grace in which we now stand.


Romans 10:9-11 If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord,"
and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead,
you will be saved.
For with your heart you believe
and are put right with God,
and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

As the Scripture says,
"Anyone who trusts in Him will never be put to shame."

 

[PACEMAKER]

Paul asked a similar question... Acts 19:

And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And all the men were about twelve.

newbirth. According to the Scripture that you quoted above

WHAT DID they HAVE to DO
BEFORE they were baptized ????

WHEN did they Receive the "Holy Spirit"??????

 

[TaylorTG]

newbirth. According to the Scripture that you quoted above

WHAT DID they HAVE to DO
BEFORE they were baptized ????

WHEN did they Receive the "Holy Spirit"??????

The actual act of being baptized is fruitful to the soul. This is because we are physical creatures, and God, accommodating our nature, assigns us rituals which we may celebrate and detect via our five senses, so that we may truly realize that we have the Holy Spirit. We of course must receive Baptism with the proper dispositions, otherwise the ritual is meaningless. But the rituals themselves are fruitful and divinely inspired.

 

[newbirth]

newbirth; did you realize that you did Not use the Words
"Believe" or "Faith" or "Repent" or "Trust"or "Sin"
in telling me about what you knew about Jesus Christ
BEFORE you were "water baptized"

Is there a Reason for that ???

You also said "that you were to Continue Faithfully in His Word"
{ the "h" should have been Capitalized....}
What do you mean by this ??You said " he died so that I could be redeemed from sins
{ the "h" should have been Capitalized....}

This Scripture contradicts you statement..

Romans 5 New International Version (NIV) Peace and Hope

5 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith,
we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2 through whom we have gained access by faith
into this grace in which we now stand.
And we boast in the hope of the glory of God.
3 Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings,
because we know that suffering produces perseverance;
4 perseverance, character; and character, hope.
5 And hope does not put us to shame,
because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts
through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.


6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless,
Christ died for the ungodly.

7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person,
though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die.

8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this:
While we were still sinners,
Christ died for us.


9 Since we have now been justified by his blood,
how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!

10 For if, while we were God’s enemies,
we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son,
how much more, having been reconciled,
shall we be saved through his life!
11 Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
through whom we have now received reconciliation.


According to these verses "we have now been justified by his blood, "
About 2000 years ago

So, What sins does "water baptism" wash away ?????

So, this is How one Receives "the Promise"
If one Believes "The Gospel" ????


Mark 1:15 "The time is here, and the kingdom of God is at hand.
Repent, and believe in the gospel."

1Cor 15:1-4 The gospel is that Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that He was buried, and then He was resurrected on the third day.

Romans 6: [SUP]23 [/SUP]For the wages of sin is death,
but the gift of God
is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 4:25-5:2 He was delivered over to death for our sins
and then was raised to life to put us right with God.
By faith in this, then, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
through whom we have gained access by faith
into this grace in which we now stand.


Romans 10:9-11 If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord,"
and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead,
you will be saved.
For with your heart you believe
and are put right with God,
and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

As the Scripture says,
"Anyone who trusts in Him will never be put to shame."

newbirth; did you realize that you did Not use the Words
"Believe" or "Faith" or "Repent" or "Trust"or "Sin"
in telling me about what you knew about Jesus Christ
BEFORE you were "water baptized"

you asked what I believed ...did not think it necessary to write 'I believe'

Originally Posted by newbirth

that Jesus Christ is the son of God.....he died so that I could be redeemed from sins and I must be born again into his kingdom and receive the HS......according to the promise...and continue faithfully in his word
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

1Cor 15:1-4 The gospel is that Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that He was buried, and then He was resurrected on the third day.

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Colossians 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

 

[PACEMAKER]

newbirth,
Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]you are taking the word "baptism"
to mean "water baptism"
This Info below digresses with you... [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times]
[/FONT]

THEREFORE: oun:
Therefore (always stop and interrogate with the 5W'S & H e.g., asking what it's "there for?"- see terms of conclusion) In light of the truth that we "have been baptized into His (Christ Jesus') death", the implication is that there has been a burial which Paul now explains.

WE HAVE BEEN BURIED WITH HIM THROUGH BAPTISM INTO DEATH: sunetaphemen (1PAPI) oun auto dia tou baptismatos eis ton thanaton: (Ro 5:3; Col 2:12,13; 3:1, 2, 3; 1Pe 3:21) (See Torrey's scriptures re the believer's [FONT=Times New Roman, Times]Union With Christ[/FONT]) (See related study of in Christ and in Christ Jesus[FONT=arial, sans-serif] [/FONT]and[FONT=Times New Roman, Times] [/FONT]in Christ)
Buried with (4916) (sunthapto from sún = together with - a nearer and closer connection implied by this preposition in comparison to "meta" which also means "with" + thapto = bury, perform funeral rites, inter) means exactly what it says "to bury with". Our burial with Christ signifies the believer's participation in His death by virtue of our unbreakable union with Him.

The only other NT use of sunthapto is also by Paul in Colossians (in a similar context)...

Through (1223) (dia) is a marker of instrument by which something is accomplished and can be translated "by means of" or "through."

Baptism (908) (baptisma[FONT=Times New Roman, Times] [/FONT]from bapto = dipping something into dye and changing the color) (Click word study of root verb baptizo) describes the result of a dipping and figuratively as used in this context refers to the identification with a person in what the name of that person stands for or what he has come to do. For instance, in 1Cor 10:2, those who came out of Egypt are said to have been "baptized into Moses" which means they were identified with the character and the purpose of Moses.

Baptism as used in this verse illustrates the inner work of salvation as a sinner is buried with and raised with Christ, because of identification with the death and resurrection of Christ through faith (Ro 5:1-note; Ro 6:7-note). A person does not die to sin because he or she is physically baptized in water, but before he or she is baptized in water. Before his discussion of baptism in this section (Ro 6:3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10), Paul has already said that we have died to sin: (Ro 6:2-note) where he declares "that we who died to sin". Here the verb (died) is in the aorist tense which describes a definite event at some point in time. Only those who did die to sin are to be water baptized, and this death to sin can only take place as the Holy Spirit works in the heart of a sinner and causes him to be justified by Christ through faith and makes him righteous (2Co 5:21).
Dying to sin is not thru the outward physical act of water baptism, but it is by Christ thru faith (Ro 5:1-note). Dipping our body into water is symbolic of the events which have already transpired (specifically our death, burial and resurrection with Christ). The repentant thief on the cross received eternal life when he was baptized into Christ through faith, even though he never had an opportunity to experience water baptism!

Where did the interpretation that Paul was referring to "water baptism" in Romans 6 originate? In brief, the conflict between Augustine and Pelagius raged when Pelagius taught that man was free of original sin and able to choose the good. Augustine, a great proponent of grace, emphasized correctly that God’s grace was necessary to rescue man from his state of total depravity. And yet Augustine himself erroneously taught the necessity of physical water baptism to "wash away sins" committed beforehand. So called "Baptismal regeneration" quickly and tragically became part of the teaching in many quarters of Christianity. Yet a careful observation of Romans 6 clearly shows that Paul did not teach such a doctrine of faith plus works!


Into (1519)(eis) is a preposition of motion into any place or thing or direction to, toward or upon any place or thing. Figuratively eis marks the object or point toward which anything ends. Spoken of a result, effect, consequence, marking that which any person or thing inclines toward or becomes.
Death (2288) (thanatos from thnesko = to die) refers to physical separation of the soul from the body, and this is the meaning in this verse. Spiritually thanatos can refer to the separation of soul from God, the state of all unregenerate sinners.

More Info here Romans 6:4-5 Commentary[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times]newbirth,[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times] [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times]
It is Important Not to Twist Words to Fit your Religious Beliefs

[/FONT]

 

[PACEMAKER]

newbirth, you are taking the word "baptism"
to mean "water baptism"
This Info below digresses with you...
I hope and Pray that you will take your valuable time
to Read this Info
And Ask God for Honest Answers as to what
Scriptures Say..


Someone could say that when I was literally baptized,
the physical act of baptism
resulted in my being buried with Christ.

This is incorrect and adds works to faith which alone saves.


Baptism into Christ occurs when we place our faith in Him
and the Spirit accomplishes regeneration or rebirth


Baptism into water as an act to procure or assure salvation
is a dead work emanating from the fallen flesh
which can produce no good work

Romans 7:18
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that good itself does not dwell in me,
that is, in my sinful nature.[SUP]
[/SUP]For I have the desire to do what is good,
but I cannot carry it out.

Colossians 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith
of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times] HAVING BEEN BURIED WITH HIM IN BAPTISM: suntaphentes (AAPMPN) autôi en tôi baptismati: (Ro 6:4,5) (Ro 6:3; 1Cor 12:13; Gal 3:27; Eph 4:5; Titus 3:5,6) Having been buried with (4916) (sunthapto from sun/syn = with - speaks of intimate union + thapto = perform funeral rites, inter, bury) means to bury with someone or bury (together) with and in context refers to a believer's burial with Christ and thus our participation in His death by virtue of union (sun/syn ~ intimate union) with Him. Sunthapto is in the aorist tense which pictures our identification as a completed event in the past as was the circumcision in the previous verse.
With Him - With Christ. As He was laid in the tomb, so were we!
In baptism - No water mentioned here. This is the glorious (and mystical) spiritual baptism of every believer that occurred at the moment of our salvation/regeneration in Christ when we placed our faith personally (see James 2:14ff on what constitutes genuine, saving faith) in His fully atoning, substitutionary work for each of us, having fully and once for all (He 7:27-note, He 9:12-note, He 9:26-note, He 9:28-note, He 10:10-note), paid the price of redemption with His precious blood (1Pe 1:18, 19-note) shed on that old rugged Cross.
Baptism (908) (baptisma from bapto = to dip as one does a cloth into a dye changing the color - see study of related verb baptizo) is used primarily in the spiritual sense signifying our identification with Christ. And so when we were buried with Him in baptism a supernatural transaction took place. This transaction was placed on our account so to speak the moment we by faith believed (through faith) in Christ. It is as if one was transported back in time, nailed on the Cross with Christ, buried with Him in the tomb, and raised with Him to walk in newness of life. Thus Paul declares that
we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with (planted) Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection. (Ro 6:4, 5, 6-see notes Ro 6:4; 6:5).
The above interpretation of baptism does not denigrate the significance of water baptism. In water baptism, immersion portrays burial with Christ, and coming out of the water depicts the resurrection by the power of God to “live a new life” and represents our public testimony of what took place spiritually when we initially believed. Neither the physical act of baptism nor the water saves anyone. Baptism in water was appointed by our Lord (Mt 28:19), and was to be a public confession of faith in Him on the part of those who responded to the gospel (cp Acts 2:41).
The question then is have you been baptized as an act of obedience to your Lord?
You are under grace, not law,
but grace transforms and empowers you to live a new life of obedience and blessing. If you refuse water baptism, obviously it does not mean that you are not truly regenerate/born again, but it does mean you will miss the inner joy that comes from knowing you have been obedient to your Lord Who paid the price to allow you the privilege of undergoing water baptism as a symbol of your new life in Him.


[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times]More info here Colossians 2:11-13 Commentary[/FONT]


newbirth, I am Sure that you want the Honest Truth
as to what Gods Word Says..

 

[newbirth]

newbirth,
Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

you are taking the word "baptism"
to mean "water baptism"
This Info below digresses with you...

and scripture disagree with you....Jesus was laid in a tomb, covered by earth....baptism covered by water
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

 

[newbirth]

newbirth, you are taking the word "baptism"
to mean "water baptism"
This Info below digresses with you...
I hope and Pray that you will take your valuable time
to Read this Info
And Ask God for Honest Answers as to what
Scriptures Say..


Someone could say that when I was literally baptized,
the physical act of baptism
resulted in my being buried with Christ.

This is incorrect and adds works to faith which alone saves.

scripture teaches aith alone is dead...

Baptism into Christ occurs when we place our faith in Him
and the Spirit accomplishes regeneration or rebirth


Baptism into water as an act to procure or assure salvation
is a dead work emanating from the fallen flesh
which can produce no good work

Romans 7:18
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that good itself does not dwell in me,
that is, in my sinful nature.[SUP]
[/SUP]For I have the desire to do what is good,
but I cannot carry it out.

you give two opinions no scripture support and one scripture out of context...

Colossians 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith
of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

HAVING BEEN BURIED WITH HIM IN BAPTISM: suntaphentes (AAPMPN) autôi en tôi baptismati: (Ro 6:4,5) (Ro 6:3; 1Cor 12:13; Gal 3:27; Eph 4:5; Titus 3:5,6) Having been buried with (4916) (sunthapto from sun/syn= with - speaks of intimate union + thapto = perform funeral rites, inter, bury) means to bury with someone or bury (together) with and in context refers to a believer's burial with Christ and thus our participation in His death by virtue of union (sun/syn~ intimate union) with Him. Sunthapto is in the aorist tense which pictures our identification as a completed event in the past as was the circumcision in the previous verse.
With Him - With Christ. As He was laid in the tomb, so were we!
In baptism - No water mentioned here. This is the glorious (and mystical) spiritual baptism of every believer that occurred at the moment of our salvation/regeneration in Christ when we placed our faith personally (see James 2:14ff on what constitutes genuine, saving faith) in His fully atoning, substitutionary work for each of us, having fully and once for all (He 7:27-note, He 9:12-note, He 9:26-note, He 9:28-note, He 10:10-note), paid the price of redemption with His precious blood (1Pe 1:18, 19-note) shed on that old rugged Cross.

you see buried with him in baptism.....you know what it means to be baptised... you know what it means to be buried...
so in baptism you were dipped/immersed/buried with Christ.....what you are saying here is rubbish...
This is the glorious (and mystical) spiritual baptism of every believer that occurred at the moment of our salvation/regeneration in Christ when we placed our faith personally

Baptism (908) (baptisma from bapto = to dip as one does a cloth into a dye changing the color - see study of related verb baptizo) is used primarily in the spiritual sense signifying our identification with Christ. And so when we were buried with Him in baptism a supernatural transaction took place. This transaction was placed on our account so to speak the moment we by faith believed (through faith) in Christ. It is as if one was transported back in time, nailed on the Cross with Christ, buried with Him in the tomb, and raised with Him to walk in newness of life. Thus Paul declares that
we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with (planted) Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection. (Ro 6:4, 5, 6-see notes Ro 6:4; 6:5).
The above interpretation of baptism does not denigrate the significance of water baptism. In water baptism, immersion portrays burial with Christ, and coming out of the water depicts the resurrection by the power of God to “live a new life” and represents our public testimony of what took place spiritually when we initially believed. Neither the physical act of baptism nor the water saves anyone. Baptism in water was appointed by our Lord (Mt 28:19), and was to be a public confession of faith in Him on the part of those who responded to the gospel (cp Acts 2:41).
The question then is have you been baptized as an act of obedience to your Lord?
You are under grace, not law,
but grace transforms and empowers you to live a new life of obedience and blessing. If you refuse water baptism, obviously it does not mean that you are not truly regenerate/born again, but it does mean you will miss the inner joy that comes from knowing you have been obedient to your Lord Who paid the price to allow you the privilege of undergoing water baptism as a symbol of your new life in Him.

More info here Colossians 2:11-13 Commentary


newbirth, I am Sure that you want the Honest Truth
as to what Gods Word Says..

pure rubbish bro..no truth whatsoever....

 

[PACEMAKER]

newbirth More Info for you

J Vernon McGee comments that
Lord Lyndhurst was the Lord Chancellor of Great Britain and possessed a sharp legal mind. He made this statement: “I know pretty well what evidence is; and I tell you, such evidence as that for the Resurrection has never broken down yet.” The death and resurrection of Christ is an historical fact. When Christ died you and I died with Him; He took our place. And when He was raised, we were raised in Him, and we are now joined to a living Christ. It is so important for us to see that we are joined to a living Savior.
It is so important to keep in mind that no outward ceremony brings us to Christ.
The issue is whether or not we are born again, whether we really know Christ as Savior.
If we do know Him, we are identified with Him. Identification with Christ is “putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ,” which is a spiritual circumcision. When you put your trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit baptizes you into the body of Christ.
It is by this baptism that we are identified with Christ, and we are also “risen with him”—joined to the living Christ.
(McGee, J V: Thru the Bible Commentary: Thomas Nelson)


Faith (4102) (pistis) ([FONT=Times New Roman, Times]word study[/FONT]) that saves in Scripture is not just mental assent to truth but a firm
conviction and a surrender to that truth productive of a conduct consistent with the surrender.
In sum, faith shows itself genuine by a changed life.
Paul is saying that faith is the means by which a believer experiences identification with Christ's resurrection.


Through faith - The preposition through (dia) is used as a marker of instrumentality and in context explains
how your spiritual resurrection was accomplished.
The ordinance of water baptism as commonly practiced in most evangelical churches
is the outward symbol of this inward spiritual transaction,
symbolizing the death of the old self in the death of Christ and the resurrection to life in participation in His risen life.
Nothing less than this makes a true Christian.

Paul does not say that the new life in Christ is caused or created by the act of water baptism.

newbirth So you Are saying that you can DO something "Good Enough" to Deserve Your Salvation??

 

[newbirth]

newbirth More Info for you

J Vernon McGee comments that
Lord Lyndhurst was the Lord Chancellor of Great Britain and possessed a sharp legal mind. He made this statement: “I know pretty well what evidence is; and I tell you, such evidence as that for the Resurrection has never broken down yet.” The death and resurrection of Christ is an historical fact. When Christ died you and I died with Him; He took our place. And when He was raised, we were raised in Him, and we are now joined to a living Christ. It is so important for us to see that we are joined to a living Savior.
It is so important to keep in mind that no outward ceremony brings us to Christ.
The issue is whether or not we are born again, whether we really know Christ as Savior.
If we do know Him, we are identified with Him. Identification with Christ is “putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ,” which is a spiritual circumcision. When you put your trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit baptizes you into the body of Christ.
It is by this baptism that we are identified with Christ, and we are also “risen with him”—joined to the living Christ.
(McGee, J V: Thru the Bible Commentary: Thomas Nelson)


Faith(4102) (pistis) (word study) that saves in Scripture is not just mental assent to truth but a firm
conviction and a surrender to that truth productive of a conduct consistent with the surrender.
In sum, faith shows itself genuine by a changed life.
Paul is saying that faith is the means by which a believer experiences identification with Christ's resurrection.


Through faith - The preposition through (dia) is used as a marker of instrumentality and in context explains
how your spiritual resurrection was accomplished.
The ordinance of water baptism as commonly practiced in most evangelical churches
is the outward symbol of this inward spiritual transaction,
symbolizing the death of the old self in the death of Christ and the resurrection to life in participation in His risen life.
Nothing less than this makes a true Christian.

Paul does not say that the new life in Christ is caused or created by the act of water baptism.

newbirth So you Are saying that you can DO something "Good Enough" to Deserve Your Salvation??

My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

who is J Vernon McGee...who is Lord Lyndhurst are they not men who have to obey the words of the Lord... they have no authority over the words of the apostles...Who all got it directly from Christ...

no I have not said or indicated... So you Are saying that you can DO something "Good Enough" to Deserve Your Salvation?? it is you who keep implying it when one obeys the word of God...
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

[SUP]37 [/SUP]Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

when you read this passage...do you see men asking what shall we do?....do you see Peter telling them what to do?.....what does vs 41 say?...they did what he told them to do...
this is what you teach ,totally contrary to Peter...

Baptism into Christ occurs when we place our faith in Him
and the Spirit accomplishes regeneration or rebirth


Baptism into water as an act to procure or assure salvation
is a dead work emanating from the fallen flesh
which can produce no good work

 

[PACEMAKER]

My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

who is J Vernon McGee...who is Lord Lyndhurst are they not men who have to obey the words of the Lord... they have no authority over the words of the apostles...Who all got it directly from Christ...

no I have not said or indicated... So you Are saying that you can DO something "Good Enough" to Deserve Your Salvation?? it is you who keep implying it when one obeys the word of God...
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

[SUP]37 [/SUP]Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

when you read this passage...do you see men asking what shall we do?....do you see Peter telling them what to do?.....what does vs 41 say?...they did what he told them to do...
this is what you teach ,totally contrary to Peter...

newbirth, WHY WHY WHY did you Leave OUT Verse 21 in Acts Chapter 2????
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.’

When you say that one HAS TO Be "water baptized" for Forgiveness of Sins
Is Not Scriptural.
You Are Taking Away from what Jesus Christ DID on The Cross
By Saying that YOU UUUUU Can DO DO Something
Like being "water baptized" for Forgiveness of YOUR Sins

There is No Use for You to be "water baptized"
If you have Not TOTALLY put Your TRUST
and FAITH IN Jesus Christ...

There is NO POWER in the "water"
Or is your "water " Holy ????

newbirth. The main difference between Grace alone and Grace plus works
is the motive behind our behavior.
Grace alone believers are motivated by the Holy Spirit to do good things
as He directs and empowers us as a way of demonstrating our gratitude
for the salvation we’ve been given.

John wrote that it’s our compassion for those who are suffering
that shows the love of God in us,
and urged us to love with action and in truth
not just with spoken or written word.
He said that’s what sets our heart at rest whenever our heart condemns us (1 John 3:17-20).
This is an example of the Holy Spirit prompting us to express our gratitude through good deeds.

Grace plus works believers are motivated to do good things
by their perceived need to complete or maintain their salvation
for fear of losing what they’ve been given.
Ultimately salvation becomes more dependent on their works
Like "water baptism" ....
than the Lord’s grace because they can never be sure they’ve done enough,
and their hearts are never at rest.

Both are givers,
but only one is relying solely
on the Lord’s completed work
as the assurance of their salvation.

You can tell which of these motivators is active in your case
by determining if it’s your compassion toward others
or your fear for yourself that’s prompting your behavior.
If it’s compassion, follow the direction of the Holy Spirit
and you’ll feel at peace.

If it’s fear, James 4:7 tells us to resist the devil and he will flee from us.
For God has not given us a spirit of fear,
but of power and of love and of a sound mind (2 Tim. 1:7).

newbirth These verses are in Scripture Also
John 1:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]There was a man sent from God whose name was John. [SUP]7 [/SUP]He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. [SUP]8 [/SUP]He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. [SUP]10 [/SUP]He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. [SUP]11 [/SUP]He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— [SUP]13 [/SUP]children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
[SUP]15 [/SUP](John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) [SUP]16 [/SUP]Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. [SUP]18 [/SUP]No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[SUP][b][/SUP] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

John 3:[SUP]15 [/SUP]that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”[SUP]
[/SUP] [SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,
that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. [SUP]
17 [/SUP]For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world,
but to save the world through him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Whoever believes in him is not condemned,
but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because
they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

newbirth, John 3: [SUP]34 [/SUP]For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God[SUP][i][/SUP] gives the Spirit without limit.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life,
but whoever rejects the Son will not see life,
for God’s wrath remains on them.

newbirth, None of this Scripture Above Indicated that "water baptism"
Is Required for Salvation

 

[PACEMAKER]

Paul asked a similar question... Acts 19:

And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And all the men were about twelve.

newbirth. According to the Scripture that you quoted above

WHAT DID they HAVE to DO
BEFORE they were baptized ????

WHEN did they Receive the "Holy Spirit"??????

 

[Kerry]

newbirth. According to the Scripture that you quoted above

WHAT DID they HAVE to DO
BEFORE they were baptized ????

WHEN did they Receive the "Holy Spirit"??????

When they stuck their heads in buckets of water LOL.

 

[posthuman]

whether one has been baptized in H[SUB]2[/SUB]O or not doesn't reveal whether they are one of the Lord's sheep or not. the Spirit does:

You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
(Romans 8:9)

& we have scriptural examples of the Spirit given before, at the time of, and after baptism in H[SUB]2[/SUB]O. we know Christ baptizes by spirit, not H[SUB]2[/SUB]O. the Spirit is the assurance of salvation. Christ is the substance of saving immersion. H[SUB]2[/SUB]O baptism has no value apart from the spiritual baptism by faith in Christ that it represents.

 

[Atwood]

The idol of Water is excluded from salvation when scripture uses words like
1) whosoever believes,
2) all who believe,
3) everyone who believes,
4) whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord (Rom 10:13; 10:14 indicates that this is a call of faith/belief).

A bit of the evidence:

Eph

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one should boast
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Philip 3:8-9
Yea verily, and I count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but refuse, that I may gain Christ, and be found in him, not having a righteousness of mine own, even that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith:
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Col 2:6
As therefore ye received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7 rooted and builded up in him, and established in your faith

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one should boast
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Philip 3:8-9
Yea verily, and I count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but refuse, that I may gain Christ, and be found in him, not having a righteousness of mine own, even that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith:
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]


2 Tim 3:15b
the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Titus 1:4
to Titus, my true child after a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Saviour.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Heb 3:19ff
And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. For we who have believed do enter into that rest;
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Heb 10:39
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Heb 11:7

By faith Noah, being warned of God concerning things not seen as yet, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

1 Pet 1:3ff

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials, 7 that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ: 8 whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

 

[Kerry]

Atwood, Man you are getting there and you are my brother in Christ. Yes we should be baptized but not for salvation nor sanctification. It is merely a ceremony stating that we accept Christ and the teachings of His word.