Baptist and Baptism

[wattie]

Gods word says several times that baptism is for remission of sins of someone who repents

“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s the same before and after Jesus died and rose

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”( that’s what John meant when he said Jesus would give the spirit )
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It isn’t a second baptism it’s the completion of baptism for remission of sins since Christ came and died and rose now we receive the holy spirit from him it doesn’t change baptism at all it was and is what God said to do to receive remission of sins

We get baptized because we believe this is true

“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and so we hear and believe and when we get baptized it means this

When we say “ baptized for remission of sins in Christs name” it means this

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? ( he died for our sins )

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: ( that’s why we are placed beneath the water like a burial when baptized )

that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. ( why we are lifted up from the water )

knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”

( remission of sins )
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4, 6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬



“for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We believe that is true and we hear about baptism for remission of sins it is an action of faith likened to circumcision of the ot

to say baptism isn’t needed is like living under Moses law saying “ circumcision “ isn’t needed

“in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism,( why we are submerged ) wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”( why we are raised up )
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:11-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there isn’t a reason for us to say baptism is anything other than what the Bible says It is an act of faith established by God for remission of sins of those who believe in Jesus

Weeell.. for a start, most of the book of John has no water baptism and is about assuring believers have eternal life, are saved.

The next thing is.. passages like you have put forward need to be put alongside passages in John.

This is where water baptism becomes the picture of what has already happened in a believers life.. rather than the means of getting salvation.

This thread is about what Baptists believe about water baptism. So you should expect this kind of post.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

amen the grace cult where anything God said to do becomes a work and isn’t needed

“And he answered and said unto them, I will also ask you one thing; and answer me: The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men?

And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say, Why then believed ye him not?

But and if we say, Of men; all the people will stone us: for they be persuaded that John was a prophet. And they answered, that they could not tell whence it was.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭20:3-7‬ ‭

( johns ministry )

“The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:

( Jesus ministry )
and the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: the grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass. The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭40:3-8‬ ‭

johns ministry

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

“As it is written in the prophets,

Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee.”( Malachi 3:1)

“The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, Make his paths straight. “( Isaiah 40)

John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1, 3-5‬ ‭

( Jesus ministry from whom we receive the Holy Ghost )

“Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, and the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s what baptism is here also compare peters promise here

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the difference is now John doesn’t need to say “ Jesus will later give you the spirit “ he’s already on the throne and gives it to all believers baptism is still for repentance and remission of sins it hasn’t changed

johns baptism is the work of God , the word of God which he established and said “believe the gospel and be baptized in Jesus name and receive remission of your sins “

All that’s required is for us to hear and believe then we will be acting in faith and we’re going to get baptized knowing what God said it means for us

Amen to that.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Recently, I have become aware that the Baptist denomination has changed its interpretation of the Bible to suggest that baptism is not necessary for salvation, despite the scripture making it quite evident that it is a requirement. I would like to know a bit more about it.

Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome To Chat.

Then there is also a third view, that teaches Both sides of this water issue are correct, but Undispensational - ie:

Summary of: Three baptisms, Rightly Divided, Within God's Contexts:

(1) Prophecy/Covenants/Law for ISRAEL:

water baptism was man's operation, Commanded by God
to John the baptizer, and then by Christ to:

►►► The Twelve apostles who Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄

The TWO Main (of 12) baptismS =

A) water, For remission of sins/induction into Israeli "priesthood!":
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Luke 7:29-30; Acts_10:37)
(Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25)
+
This Is The Baptism That "Christ Performed" after ascending Into Heaven:

B) Baptism WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for
power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)
Prophecy/Covenants/Law

Q: Are these TWO "still Required" By God, for us, Today, Under Grace?
Bible Answer:

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

(2) Mystery/GRACE! =

our "apostle to the Gentiles" for The Body Of CHRIST:

►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄

Today: Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians_4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; ►►► 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB ◄◄◄)
----------------
FULL study of ONE Baptism for today's Dispensation of Grace...

And, Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II).

Grace, Peace, And JOY!… + RICH Blessings

 

[posthuman]

Recently, I have become aware that the Baptist denomination has changed its interpretation of the Bible to suggest that baptism is not necessary for salvation, despite the scripture making it quite evident that it is a requirement. I would like to know a bit more about it.

Maybe you should go back to page 1.

 

[Nehemiah6]

This thread is about what Baptists believe about water baptism. So you should expect this kind of post.

Even though the traditional Baptist teaching on baptism corresponds to that of the Anabaptists (i.e. only believers may be baptized, unlike the Reformed churches) too many Baptist churches have failed to uphold the true biblical teaching on water baptism.

1. According to the book of Acts Christian baptism was an absolute necessity and administered immediately after conversion. There was no delay, hence Paul baptized at midnight (most inconveniently) in Philippi.

2. There were no "classes" or catechisms to teach new believers anything. Water baptism was a COMMAND of Christ, and remains so (contrary to the Hyper-Dispensationalists like Bullinger who decided that water baptism could be disregarded). On the day of Pentecost Christian baptism was administered to about 3,000 believers as soon as they believed (even though many may have experienced the baptism of John the Baptizer).

3. Baptism is not an "entrance rite" for membership into a Baptist church (or any other church). The Ethiopian went on his way rejoicing, even while a church had not been established in Ethiopia at that time. And Philip moved on. No doubt he spread the Gospel in Ethiopia and also taught about the necessity of baptism.

4. Any mature Christian man may baptize a new believer, which was the case when Christ sent Ananias from Damascus to baptize Paul. Hence it is not necessary that only pastors be allowed to baptize believers.

5. Baptism is the first step of sanctification, but new believers are to be discipled. This has not been happening in too many churches.

6. Baptist Billy Graham had no problem allowing new converts to go to other denominational churches which did not believe in believer's baptism. He had a duty and responsibility to tell all who came for salvation to seek out a Bible believing church and be baptized immediately. Had this happened, things might have turned out differently for many.

7. A baptistry is not the only place for baptism. A pool, a pond, a lake, or a river are all acceptable.

8. Unlike the "Jesus Only" people, baptism has always been "in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost". Those who attack the doctrine of the Trinity conveniently forget that those were the words of Christ in Matthew 28:19.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Even though the traditional Baptist teaching on baptism corresponds to that of the Anabaptists (i.e. only believers may be baptized, unlike the Reformed churches) too many Baptist churches have failed to uphold the true biblical teaching on water baptism.

1. According to the book of Acts Christian baptism was an absolute necessity and administered immediately after conversion. There was no delay, hence Paul baptized at midnight (most inconveniently) in Philippi.

2. There were no "classes" or catechisms to teach new believers anything. Water baptism was a COMMAND of Christ, and remains so (contrary to the Hyper-Dispensationalists like Bullinger who decided that water baptism could be disregarded). On the day of Pentecost Christian baptism was administered to about 3,000 believers as soon as they believed (even though many may have experienced the baptism of John the Baptizer).

3. Baptism is not an "entrance rite" for membership into a Baptist church (or any other church). The Ethiopian went on his way rejoicing, even while a church had not been established in Ethiopia at that time. And Philip moved on. No doubt he spread the Gospel in Ethiopia and also taught about the necessity of baptism.

4. Any mature Christian man may baptize a new believer, which was the case when Christ sent Ananias from Damascus to baptize Paul. Hence it is not necessary that only pastors be allowed to baptize believers.

5. Baptism is the first step of sanctification, but new believers are to be discipled. This has not been happening in too many churches.

6. Baptist Billy Graham had no problem allowing new converts to go to other denominational churches which did not believe in believer's baptism. He had a duty and responsibility to tell all who came for salvation to seek out a Bible believing church and be baptized immediately. Had this happened, things might have turned out differently for many.

7. A baptistry is not the only place for baptism. A pool, a pond, a lake, or a river are all acceptable.

8. Unlike the "Jesus Only" people, baptism has always been "in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost". Those who attack the doctrine of the Trinity conveniently forget that those were the words of Christ in Matthew 28:19.

I remember when I got saved, I was so excited and happy that God was now in my life. Then I read in the Bible to get baptized in water. I did understand that it was symbolic and that it's a public statement of my new life in Christ and that the very act itself doesn't save me.

But I got water baptized as soon as possible because it is the Lord's command. And I did it gladly! Even though is not in the Bible, I think water baptism is a test. It is such a small thing to do - if a Christian finds an excuse NOT to do it, what other commands of God would that Christian make excuses not to do as well? I also think it is an expression of our love and happiness to be with the Lord.

So when people make excuses not to do it, it's just mind-boggling! Why NOT get water-baptized if one so believes and belongs to the Lord? Why NOT be baptized as an act of love and gratitude to the Lord?

Plus it pleases God the Father, the Lord Jesus thought it was important enough to do Himself and the Holy Spirit was interested enough to be present. So even though it's not an act that saves you, God overall thinks it's a very meaningful commandment to do.

Matthew 3:13-17

13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. 14 And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?”

15 But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him.

16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

So that's my stance - it doesn't save you, but it is STILL a command of God we shouldn't make excuses not to do.

 

[posthuman]

Recently, I have become aware that the Baptist denomination has changed its interpretation of the Bible to suggest that baptism is not necessary for salvation, despite the scripture making it quite evident that it is a requirement.

Eerily familiar...

I have recently been made aware that the Baptist denomination has re-interpreted the Bible to say that baptism is not necessary for salvation, even though scripture says ...very clearly...it is required.

post is suspicious.

 

[mailmandan]

Recently, I have become aware that the Baptist denomination has changed its interpretation of the Bible to suggest that baptism is not necessary for salvation, despite the scripture making it quite evident that it is a requirement. I would like to know a bit more about it.

Please show me one verse in the Bible that states, "whoever is not water baptized will not be saved." John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Magenta]

So when people make excuses not to do it, it's just mind-boggling! Why NOT get water-baptized if one
so believes and belongs to the Lord? Why NOT be baptized as an act of love and gratitude to the Lord?

Plus it pleases God the Father, the Lord Jesus thought it was important enough to do
Himself and the Holy Spirit was interested enough to be present. So even though it's
not an act that saves you, God overall thinks it's a very meaningful commandment to do.

Hello 2ndTimeIsTheCharm Welcome to CC!

I rarely see people making excuses for why not to get water baptized. The contention or disagreement
seems more, much more, to do with whether water baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation.

Jesus fulfilled all righteousness by undergoing baptism into priesthood as was required of the sin-bearing substitute.

Now it is by grace through faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ that we are cleansed from all sin.

This is not in any way to say that water baptism is not important

Welcome!

 

[Magenta]

Ezekiel 36:25-26

 

[VaruzhanMkr]

Everyone should be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, only in His name and never in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The last type of baptism hasn't any Biblical basement and the only true form of baptism is in the name of Jesus Christ. We meet a lot of times in the Scriptures that apostles were baptizing people in the first century in the name of Jesus Christ. Trinity formula is not from God! This is the Message for us for the last days and we were informed about it from God with the service of brother Branham. Everything should be turned into the original version; we see it in Malachi 4:6. And our Lord told us that we should be baptized and everyone who says that you shouldn't is a liar!

 

[JaumeJ]

It is prophesied by Isaiah that Jesus would be called the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, so why the hair splitting?

Isaiah 9:6. Understand before interpreting for others. God bless you in all manners.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

 

[birdie]

As a child I attended a ......southern baptist member church ......and baptism was a routine part of the service. I quit that church when I went into the army in 1958.

I have recently been made aware that the Baptist denomination has re-interpreted the Bible to say that baptism is not necessary for salvation, even though scripture says ...very clearly...it is required. In light of research this seems to have occurred since 1960....(?).
Does anyone know of baptist association teachings, publications,writings,etc prior to 1960 which reflected that position.
I can find none.

Mark 16:16 says: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. " That does not mean whoever believes and is dunked in physical water will be saved. The word 'baptize' means to be washed (free from the stain or penalty of sin). So, when we read: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. " , it means whoever believes and is washed free from the stain of sin (forgiven) will be saved" Once a person believes on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation, they are forgiven, washed free from the stain of sin. We read: "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. " Another way the Bible puts it is that we are 'clean'. That does not mean that physical water has washed away physical dirt. It means we are clean as regards the stain of sin. We read: "Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. "

 

[fredoheaven]

Jesus' baptism was that of the Spirit. If the Baptist are asserting that water baptism is not required for salvation, then they are correct. It is only an outward testimony of what has already been accomplished. The precious blood of Jesus is the substance that saves.

Any Baptist that does say baptism saves is a "Baptwist"

 

[wattie]

Any Baptist that does say baptism saves is a "Baptwist"

Yea there is a church here that has the baptist name.. used to be Spreydon Baptist.. we called it 'sprayed on' Baptist.

 

[oyster67]

Yea there is a church here that has the baptist name.. used to be Spreydon Baptist.. we called it 'sprayed on' Baptist.

I bet that really gets them torqued. Baptist hate sprinkling. They would rather be called "Dunkin' Baptists".

 

[oyster67]

Maybe that's why someone always brings donuts before Sunday School.

 

[Nehemiah6]

It is prophesied by Isaiah that Jesus would be called the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, so why the hair splitting?

Because that is NOT what Isaiah revealed. In fact Isaiah has several passages which show that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit as THREE distinct divine persons. And the baptism of Christ by John the Baptist (Baptizer) actually confirmed this. The Son was in the water, the Holy Spirit took the form of a dove, and the Father spoke from Heaven and commended the Son. The Didache is an ancient 2nd century witness to Christian baptism being in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Maybe that's why someone always brings donuts before Sunday School.

That is meant to be a test.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The baptism that saves is by the Holy Spirit. Two of the four
gospels say Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit and fire.

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee. The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, Make his paths straight.

John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1-4‬ ‭

what John said about baptism

“I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance:

but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭3:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

After Jesus began preaching

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

after Jesus rose from the dead he’s explaining things better about what John said

“‬‬“and, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.( john chapter 14-16)

For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:4-5, 8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Now The fulfillment of what John said Jesus would do later and what Jesus promised to do (in John c14-17 )shortly after he went to heaven.

“And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judæa, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

( what John said is now fulfilled and baptism is one )

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, ( water , what we do in the church as believers )

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” ( spirit what Jesus does from heaven )
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:1-4, 14, 16-18, 32-33, 36, 38‬ ‭KJV‬‬


What John said was before Jesus gave the holy ghost to believers that’s why it seems there are two baptisms to some folks

But baptism is one there’s no need to say “ I baptize with water for remission of sins and he hat comes after me will baptize with the spirit “

We already gives the spirit freely like this now

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s what Jesus does which John said “ he will baptize you with the Holy Ghost “

But it doesn’t replace baptism in water

“Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:47-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

baptism is one now John spoke before the rest of it was fulfilled

Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, ( water , what we do in the church as believers )

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”( when Jesus gives a believer his spirit )


Our doctrine is basic believe the gospel written in the Bible , which teaches us to repent and be baptized for remission of sins in Christs name because he died for our sins and we believe