Bark of the Least

[RickyZ]

Another thing to consider is that God's word is eternal. It doesn't have a use-by date on it. It echoes throughout time, that's what's behind the phenomenon of history repeating itself. And likewise, God's word is fulfilled in repetitions. He says Jerusalem will be sacked. And indeed it was in 70 ad. But the truth is it's been surrounded several times, and will be once again. Just a little more so than ever before. 70 ad was just a precurser, and now a tool of the devil to get your mind off of what's ahead.

You can't scratch God's words out of the Book just because they came true once. The truth is, It's coming true all the time.

 

[Atwood]

I think you may be too bold in saying that there will be "no end of the world". I am not saying that you are wrong, but I believe at minimum there will be a "reset". I have often thought about Cain going to the land of Nod and wondered where those people came from. I have also considered the statement by Solomon in Ecclesiastes:

[SUP]3 [/SUP]What advantage does man have in all his work
Which he does under the sun?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]A generation goes and a generation comes,
But the earth remains forever.[SUP]5 [/SUP]Also, the sun rises and the sun sets;
And hastening to its place it rises there again.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Blowing toward the south,
Then turning toward the north,
The wind continues swirling along;
And on its circular courses the wind returns.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]All the rivers flow into the sea,
Yet the sea is not full.
To the place where the rivers flow,
There they flow again.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]All things are wearisome;
Man is not able to tell it.
The eye is not satisfied with seeing,
Nor is the ear filled with hearing.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]That which has been is that which will be,
And that which has been done is that which will be done.
So there is nothing new under the sun.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Is there anything of which one might say,
“See this, it is new”?
Already it has existed for ages
Which were before us.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]There is no remembrance of earlier things;
And also of the later things which will occur,
There will be for them no remembrance
Among those who will come later still.

Don't hit me.

Timeline, how can you suggest that Christians who turn the other cheek would smite you?
You grieve us all; our feelings are hurt; we weep in sorrow over such a suggestion.
Oh the pain of it; Oh the pain of it; Ay, yai, yai, yai, llora, no canta.

Now thou hast quoted Qohelet, aka Ecclesiastes.
Generally I don't quote Eccl for proof texts, any more than I quote the debating claims of Eliphaz, Bildad, or Zophar from Job for proof texts (the Lord at the end says they got it wrong).

IMHO, Ecclesiastes is God's true record of the results of reasoning under the sun: "Vanity of vanities; all is vanity. What profit does a man have . . . ?" Yes, for a man reasoning under the sun, ignoring God's plan, all is vanity. But in the absolute sense, all is not vanity. For example, our labor for the Lord is not in vain. Thus, Solomon's under-the-sun conclusions are not true above the sun, any more than satan's statement was true, "You shall not surely die." Sometimes the Lord truely records men's errors.

BTW, the passage you quote is the most exquisitely beautiful poetry I have ever heard in Hebrew. I present on small part of it:

"[SUP] [/SUP]All the rivers flow into the sea,
Yet the sea is not full."
in Hebrew has meter and rhyme, but a very subtle rhyme.
And it can be sung to the tune of Unchained Melody
"Lonely rivers flow to the sea, to the sea;
Straight into the arms of the sea."

כל הנחלים הלכים אל הים והים איננו מלא


​

Kol ha nahalim holhim el ha yam,
V ha yam eynneu male'.

Kol = all
ha = all
nahalim = rivers (rhyme)
holhim = go (rhyme)
el = to
ha yam = the sea
V = and
ha yam = the sea
eynneu = is not
male' = full.


Approximate Singing guide:

Kol ha nahalim > lonely rivers flow
holhim > to the sea
el ha yam > to the sea;
V ha yam > straight into the arms
eynneu male' > of the seaOther matters: Scripture says that Adam and Eve had children (aside from Cain, Abel, and Seth). Do some math on how a population could increase with 1000 year life spans and every woman having many children, starting at 20 years old and lasting who knows how long -- just to consider possibilities. There was no shortage of people to populate anything.

End of the World is better Consummation of the Age. I expect the earth to get an even more drastic renovation than it did with the Flood of Moses, a renovation in "fire." Who knows how elemental the destruction and renovation will be. It might be broken down to protons, electrons, and neutrons (plus modern physics junk), or broken down to quarks, before reassembly. I think there is continuity between the old earth and new earth, however.

 

[Atwood]

Another thing to consider is that God's word is eternal. It doesn't have a use-by date on it. It echoes throughout time, that's what's behind the phenomenon of history repeating itself. And likewise, God's word is fulfilled in repetitions. He says Jerusalem will be sacked. And indeed it was in 70 ad. But the truth is it's been surrounded several times, and will be once again. Just a little more so than ever before. 70 ad was just a precurser, and now a tool of the devil to get your mind off of what's ahead.

You can't scratch God's words out of the Book just because they came true once. The truth is, It's coming true all the time.

Ricky, you speak of coming true all the time.
There is something to that. For example, there shall be wars and rumors of wars sounds like something happening all the time. And Jerusalem has been daily trodden down by gentiles, probably every day since the Babylonian Captivity began in OT Times.

But by and large, the Olivet Discourse present signs, definite observable special signs of Christ's coming and of the Consummation of the Age, things which are not common at all, or they would have no sign value.

 

[Atwood]

And I agree, the end spoken of in Matthew is not the end of this world. It is the end of this age. Now if we could just agree on what 'this' age is

I see no problem in recognizing the Church Age from Pentecost to the Rapture, though Matthew has nothing about that. And Israel has this 70 sevens prophecy in Dan 9. It is clear in Mat 24 that the End in sight is Christ's coming with its consequences, His coming being obvious an undebatable, like a lightning flash seen round the world.

You quote: 2 Kings 6:17 Then Elisha prayed and said, “O Lord, please open his eyes that he may see.” So the Lord opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw, and behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.

A great passage.

However, to me it's more fun the Elijah passage where he calls fire down out of Heaven when captains of 50 come against Him.

Free paraphrase:

Captain 1: "O Man of God, come down from the hill."

Elijah: If I be a man of God, let fire come down and burn you up!

Whoosh!

Captain 2: "O Man of God, the king says come down right now!"

Elijah: "If I be a man of God, let fire come down and burn you up!"

Whoosh!

Captain 3 (on his knees): "O Man of God, please don't burn us up."

 

[Larry_Stotle]

Atawood:

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led captive into all the nations:
[AD 70]
and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.[continues from AD 70 into the present day]

Times of the Gentiles ended in 70AD and does not continue – trodden down relates exactly to the war period ending in 70AD – the end of the covenant wrath dealt out to the whore aka 1st century Israel.

And there shall be signs in sun and moon and stars [never happened];

This is figurative language as used elsewhere in previously prophesied destructions.This understanding has been lost in today's “Christianity”.

From Lightfoot's commentaries -

That the destruction of Jerusalem and the whole Jewish state, is described as if the whole frame of this world were to be dissolved. Nor is it strange, when God destroyed his habitation and city, places once so dear to him, with so direful and sad an overthrow ; his own people, whom he accounted of as much or more,than the whole world beside,— by so dreadful and amazing plagues.

Matt.xxiv. 29, 30 ; "The sun shall be darkened, &c. Then shall appear the sign of the Son of man," &c.; which yet are said to fall out, within that generation, ver. 34.—2 Pet. iii. 10; "The heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat," &c. Compare with this, Deut.xxxii. 22 ; Heb. xii. 26 : and observe, that, by elements, are understood the Mosaic elements, Gal. iv. 9 ; Col. ii. 20 : and you will not doubt, that St. Peter speaks only of the conflagration of Jerusalem, the destruction of the nation and the abolishing the dispensation of Moses.'

and upon the earth distress of nations, in perplexity for the roaring ofthe sea and the billows; [never happened yet];

Of course it did – there was plenty of distress in Judea and the Roman empire, Roaring of the “seas” is figurative language for the Gentile nations.

men fainting for fear, and for expectation of the things which are coming on the world: for the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. [never happened]

The power of heavens (shaken) refers to the Jewish nation and its temple cult– again figurative language.

Heb 12:26-28 KJV Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made,that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace,whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

The writer of Hebrews here is using similar figurative language aso:

Hag 2:21 KJV Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Judah, saying, I will shakethe heavens and the earth;

Adam Clark's commentary:

Hebrews 12:26 'Whose voice then shook the earth - Namely, at the giving of the law on Mount Sinai; and from this it seems that it was the voice of Jesus that then shook the earth, and that it was he who came down on the mount.

But others refer this simply to God the Father giving the law. Not the earth only, but also heaven - Probably referring to the approaching destruction of Jerusalem, and the total abolition of the political and ecclesiastical constitution of the Jews; the one being signified by the earth, the other by heaven; for the Jewish state and worship are frequently thus termed in the prophetic writings.

Heb 12:27 KJV And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made,that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

Adam Clarke:

The removing of those things that are shaken - The whole of the Jewish polity, which had been in a shaken state from the time that Judea had fallen under the power of the Romans.

As of things that are made - That is, subjects intended to last only for a time. God never designed that the Jewish religion should become general, nor be permanent.

Those things which cannot be shaken - The whole Gospel system, which cannot be moved by the power of man.

And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. [certainly hasn't happened yet]

Sure it has in the destruction of Jerusalem - “coming in clouds” is figurative language for a theophany.

In fact the futurists are the ones making Jesus and the apostles into liars by ignoring the imminence statements in the NT such as “a thand”, “shortly come to pass” in favour of their fawlty doctrines and expecting figurative and apocalyptic language to be woodenly literal.

We can see from the below that ALL things were fulfilled in the days of vengeance when Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD - you people just ignore scripture and twist it around to fit a bogus "doctrine"


(Luke 21:22 KJV) For these be the days of vengeance, that ALL things which are written may be fulfilled.

(Luke 21:20 KJV) And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

We know that Jerusalem was "compassed with armies" from AD 66 - so why would we not believe Jesus when he said "ALL" things which are written may be fulfilled"?

(Luke 21:32 KJV) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus stated that ALL would be fulfilled.

(Mat 16:28 KJV) Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Jesus told the high priest and those with him that they would "see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven".

(Mark 14:61 KJV) But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?

(Mark 14:62 KJV) And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

(Luke 19:42 - 44 KJV) Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.

For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

The above can only relate to 1st century AD Jerusalem.

 

[RickyZ]

Ricky, you speak of coming true all the time.
There is something to that. For example, there shall be wars and rumors of wars sounds like something happening all the time. And Jerusalem has been daily trodden down by gentiles, probably every day since the Babylonian Captivity began in OT Times.

But by and large, the Olivet Discourse present signs, definite observable special signs of Christ's coming and of the Consummation of the Age, things which are not common at all, or they would have no sign value.

You are absolutely right. I was just using the incident of Jerusalem because that seems to be the preterist linchpin.

I see no problem in recognizing the Church Age from Pentecost to the Rapture, though Matthew has nothing about that. And Israel has this 70 sevens prophecy in Dan 9. It is clear in Mat 24 that the End in sight is Christ's coming with its consequences, His coming being obvious an undebatable, like a lightning flash seen round the world.

You quote: 2 Kings 6:17 Then Elisha prayed and said, “O Lord, please open his eyes that he may see.” So the Lord opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw, and behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.

A great passage.

However, to me it's more fun the Elijah passage where he calls fire down out of Heaven when captains of 50 come against Him.

Free paraphrase:

Captain 1: "O Man of God, come down from the hill."

Elijah: If I be a man of God, let fire come down and burn you up!

Whoosh!

Captain 2: "O Man of God, the king says come down right now!"

Elijah: "If I be a man of God, let fire come down and burn you up!"

Whoosh!

Captain 3 (on his knees): "O Man of God, please don't burn us up."

Yeah I love the old prophets. I chose that signature because there are so many who need their eyes opened at this point in the game.

 

[RickyZ]

[QUOTE=Atwood;1534879]End of the World is better Consummation of the Age. I expect the earth to get an even more drastic renovation than it did with the Flood of Moses, a renovation in "fire." Who knows how elemental the destruction and renovation will be. It might be broken down to protons, electrons, and neutrons (plus modern physics junk), or broken down to quarks, before reassembly. I think there is continuity between the old earth and new earth, however.[/QUOTE]

If I may derail a moment, here are some thoughts on that

God’s word tells us the world is made of things unseen, which describes the atom and it’s subatomic components. The interesting thing about the atom is that it’s nucleus is composed of like-charged particles, and orbiting that are like charged particles. The laws of science dictate that like charged particles repel each other, indicating the whole dang thing should just naturally come apart. But God says that all things are held together by Him (Hebrews 11:3; Col. 1:16). The Lord spoke this creation into existence, putting it together by His very Word (note the similarity of word/world). We are told that at the end of its existence the elements will melt with fervent heat (2 Peter 3:7, 10, 12). Consider what happens when an atom is split - it creates intense heat and fire as the element is ripped out of existence. Could it be possible that when God speaks it out of existence, the resulting nuclear meltdown of all created matter that now exists as our earth and heavens will create the lake of fire? Would it seem fitting that those who love this world more than Him would be given it, in its natural state apart from Him?

 

[Atwood]

Atawood:

Boy, Larry, what a load of preterism.

You claim:
"Times of the Gentiles ended in 70AD and does not continue – trodden down relates exactly to the war period ending in 70AD – the end of the covenant wrath dealt out to the whore aka 1st century Israel."

What is your proof that Gentiles stopped tredding down Jerusalem in AD 70?
What is your proof that the Gentiles do not dominate the world today (times of the Gentiles)?

Is this a copy and paste post?
Shall I go copy and paste something back?

 

[Atwood]

Timeline, how can you suggest that Christians who turn the other cheek would smite you?
You grieve us all; our feelings are hurt; we weep in sorrow over such a suggestion.
Oh the pain of it; Oh the pain of it; Ay, yai, yai, yai, llora, no canta.

Now thou hast quoted Qohelet, aka Ecclesiastes.
Generally I don't quote Eccl for proof texts, any more than I quote the debating claims of Eliphaz, Bildad, or Zophar from Job for proof texts (the Lord at the end says they got it wrong).

IMHO, Ecclesiastes is God's true record of the results of reasoning under the sun: "Vanity of vanities; all is vanity. What profit does a man have . . . ?" Yes, for a man reasoning under the sun, ignoring God's plan, all is vanity. But in the absolute sense, all is not vanity. For example, our labor for the Lord is not in vain. Thus, Solomon's under-the-sun conclusions are not true above the sun, any more than satan's statement was true, "You shall not surely die." Sometimes the Lord truely records men's errors.

BTW, the passage you quote is the most exquisitely beautiful poetry I have ever heard in Hebrew. I present on small part of it:

"All the rivers flow into the sea,
Yet the sea is not full."
in Hebrew has meter and rhyme, but a very subtle rhyme.
And it can be sung to the tune of Unchained Melody
"Lonely rivers flow to the sea, to the sea;
Straight into the arms of the sea."

כל הנחלים הלכים אל הים והים איננו מלא


​

Kol ha nahalim holhim el ha yam,
V ha yam eynneu male'.

Kol = all
ha = the
nahalim = rivers (rhyme)
holhim = go (rhyme)
el = to
ha yam = the sea
V = and
ha yam = the sea
eynneu = is not
male' = full.


Approximate Singing guide:

Kol ha nahalim > lonely rivers flow
holhim > to the sea
el ha yam > to the sea;
V ha yam > straight into the arms
eynneu male' > of the seaOther matters: Scripture says that Adam and Eve had children (aside from Cain, Abel, and Seth). Do some math on how a population could increase with 1000 year life spans and every woman having many children, starting at 20 years old and lasting who knows how long -- just to consider possibilities. There was no shortage of people to populate anything.

End of the World is better Consummation of the Age. I expect the earth to get an even more drastic renovation than it did with the Flood of Moses, a renovation in "fire." Who knows how elemental the destruction and renovation will be. It might be broken down to protons, electrons, and neutrons (plus modern physics junk), or broken down to quarks, before reassembly. I think there is continuity between the old earth and new earth, however.

I see an accidental error above.
ha = the, not all.

I fixed it above in the quote.

 

[Atwood]

Atawood:

"The power of heavens (shaken) refers to the Jewish nation and its temple cult– again figurative language."

Lets see the proof that
1) the power of the heavens = the Jewish state and its temple.
2) it is figurative language.

Really, are you not just going on and on saying things and imagining things?

 

[Larry_Stotle]

Explain this to me atwood with yer literal woody interpretation.

(Luke 10:15 KJV) And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.

 

[Atwood]

Atawood:

Where is your proof that billows is figurative? And that figurative billows is the cause of distress?

 

[Atwood]

Explain this to me atwood with yer literal woody interpretation.

(Luke 10:15 KJV) And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.

What is your proof that I have literal woody interpretation?
What is your proof that I don't recognize hyperbole and figure of speech?

When did I say that "I am the door" means the speaker has hinges?

What is your proof that the literal is not the default and that figurative meanings must not be adopted unless they are required by context?

 

[Timeline]

Timeline, how can you suggest that Christians who turn the other cheek would smite you?
You grieve us all; our feelings are hurt; we weep in sorrow over such a suggestion.
Oh the pain of it; Oh the pain of it; Ay, yai, yai, yai, llora, no canta.

Now thou hast quoted Qohelet, aka Ecclesiastes.
Generally I don't quote Eccl for proof texts, any more than I quote the debating claims of Eliphaz, Bildad, or Zophar from Job for proof texts (the Lord at the end says they got it wrong).

IMHO, Ecclesiastes is God's true record of the results of reasoning under the sun: "Vanity of vanities; all is vanity. What profit does a man have . . . ?" Yes, for a man reasoning under the sun, ignoring God's plan, all is vanity. But in the absolute sense, all is not vanity. For example, our labor for the Lord is not in vain. Thus, Solomon's under-the-sun conclusions are not true above the sun, any more than satan's statement was true, "You shall not surely die." Sometimes the Lord truely records men's errors.

BTW, the passage you quote is the most exquisitely beautiful poetry I have ever heard in Hebrew. I present on small part of it:

"All the rivers flow into the sea,
Yet the sea is not full."
in Hebrew has meter and rhyme, but a very subtle rhyme.
And it can be sung to the tune of Unchained Melody
"Lonely rivers flow to the sea, to the sea;
Straight into the arms of the sea."

כל הנחלים הלכים אל הים והים איננו מלא


​

Kol ha nahalim holhim el ha yam,
V ha yam eynneu male'.

Kol = all
ha = all
nahalim = rivers (rhyme)
holhim = go (rhyme)
el = to
ha yam = the sea
V = and
ha yam = the sea
eynneu = is not
male' = full.


Approximate Singing guide:

Kol ha nahalim > lonely rivers flow
holhim > to the sea
el ha yam > to the sea;
V ha yam > straight into the arms
eynneu male' > of the seaOther matters: Scripture says that Adam and Eve had children (aside from Cain, Abel, and Seth). Do some math on how a population could increase with 1000 year life spans and every woman having many children, starting at 20 years old and lasting who knows how long -- just to consider possibilities. There was no shortage of people to populate anything.

End of the World is better Consummation of the Age. I expect the earth to get an even more drastic renovation than it did with the Flood of Moses, a renovation in "fire." Who knows how elemental the destruction and renovation will be. It might be broken down to protons, electrons, and neutrons (plus modern physics junk), or broken down to quarks, before reassembly. I think there is continuity between the old earth and new earth, however.

It was not 1,000 years, but less than 120. Now I agree that 120 years is enough time for Adam to have a daughter, but bible does not say that Cain took a wife with him. And why was there a land of Nod - did other sons and daughters kill other sons and daughters and had already been sent away. And more importantly, if you read what I wrote, I said that we do not have enough information to make this claim.

 

[jag1977]

Adam, Eve, nor Cain had children.

 

[Tintin]

Adam, Eve, nor Cain had children.

Haha! Hilarious!

 

[jag1977]

Haha! Hilarious!

Miss you none tinman. Provide scripture that proves otherwise

 

[Larry_Stotle]

What is your proof that I have literal woody interpretation?
What is your proof that I don't recognize hyperbole and figure of speech?

When did I say that "I am the door" means the speaker has hinges?

What is your proof that the literal is not the default and that figurative meanings must not be adopted unless they are required by context?

Where is your proof that what I've posted in post #65 is not figurative when I've quoted biblical scholars that have made their life work of studying and explaining the scriptures?

And where is your proof that what Jesus says below does not fit in with the 70AD destruction of Jerusalem?:

(Luke 21:20 KJV) And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

(Luke 21:22 KJV) For these be the days of vengeance, that ALL things which are written may be fulfilled.

What does "ALL things which are written may be fulfilled." mean ? Does ALL mean ALL or some of ALL?

Are you saying Jesus was mistaken or that he lied?

 

[Timeline]

Miss you none tinman. Provide scripture that proves otherwise

4 Now the man had relations with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain, and she said, “I have gotten a manchild with the help of the Lord.” [SUP]2 [/SUP]Again, she gave birth to his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of flocks, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. [SUP]3 [/SUP]So it came about in the course of time that Cain brought an offering to the Lord of the fruit of the ground. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Abel, on his part also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the Lord had regard for Abel and for his offering; [SUP]5 [/SUP]but for Cain and for his offering He had no regard. So Cain became very angry and his countenance fell. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? [SUP]7 [/SUP]If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.” [SUP]8 [/SUP]Cain told Abel his brother. And it came about when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then the Lord said to Cain, “Where is Abel your brother?” And he said, “I do not know. Am I my brother’s keeper?” [SUP]10 [/SUP]He said, “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood is crying to Me from the ground. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. [SUP]12 [/SUP]When you cultivate the ground, it will no longer yield its strength to you; you will be a vagrant and a wanderer on the earth.” [SUP]13 [/SUP]Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is too great to bear! [SUP]14 [/SUP]Behold, You have driven me this day from the face of the ground; and from Your face I will be hidden, and I will be a vagrant and a wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.” [SUP]15 [/SUP]So the Lord said to him, “Therefore whoever kills Cain, vengeance will be taken on him sevenfold.” And the Lord appointed a sign for Cain, so that no one finding him would slay him.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Then Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.
[SUP]17[/SUP]Cain had relations with his wife and she conceived, and gave birth to Enoch; and he built a city, and called the name of the city Enoch, after the name of his son. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Now to Enoch was born Irad, and Irad became the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael became the father of Methushael, and Methushael became the father of Lamech. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Lamech took to himself two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other, Zillah. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Adah gave birth to Jabal; he was the father of those who dwell in tents and have livestock. [SUP]21 [/SUP]His brother’s name was Jubal; he was the father of all those who play the lyre and pipe. [SUP]22 [/SUP]As for Zillah, she also gave birth to Tubal-cain, the forger of all implements of bronze and iron; and the sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah.

 

[jag1977]

4 Now the man had relations with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain, and she said, “I have gotten a manchild with the help of the Lord.” [SUP]2 [/SUP]Again, she gave birth to his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of flocks, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. [SUP]3 [/SUP]So it came about in the course of time that Cain brought an offering to the Lord of the fruit of the ground. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Abel, on his part also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the Lord had regard for Abel and for his offering; [SUP]5 [/SUP]but for Cain and for his offering He had no regard. So Cain became very angry and his countenance fell. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? [SUP]7 [/SUP]If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.” [SUP]8 [/SUP]Cain told Abel his brother. And it came about when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then the Lord said to Cain, “Where is Abel your brother?” And he said, “I do not know. Am I my brother’s keeper?” [SUP]10 [/SUP]He said, “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood is crying to Me from the ground. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. [SUP]12 [/SUP]When you cultivate the ground, it will no longer yield its strength to you; you will be a vagrant and a wanderer on the earth.” [SUP]13 [/SUP]Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is too great to bear! [SUP]14 [/SUP]Behold, You have driven me this day from the face of the ground; and from Your face I will be hidden, and I will be a vagrant and a wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.” [SUP]15 [/SUP]So the Lord said to him, “Therefore whoever kills Cain, vengeance will be taken on him sevenfold.” And the Lord appointed a sign for Cain, so that no one finding him would slay him.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Then Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.
[SUP]17[/SUP]Cain had relations with his wife and she conceived, and gave birth to Enoch; and he built a city, and called the name of the city Enoch, after the name of his son. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Now to Enoch was born Irad, and Irad became the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael became the father of Methushael, and Methushael became the father of Lamech. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Lamech took to himself two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other, Zillah. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Adah gave birth to Jabal; he was the father of those who dwell in tents and have livestock. [SUP]21 [/SUP]His brother’s name was Jubal; he was the father of all those who play the lyre and pipe. [SUP]22 [/SUP]As for Zillah, she also gave birth to Tubal-cain, the forger of all implements of bronze and iron; and the sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah.

Oh this must be for ME! I have yet to read >>>"EVE conceived and gave birth to Cain"<<<...and what lame interpretation of the bible is being posted here. You lack and miss me. Me you cannot see when choosing you over me doubt you.