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john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,389
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Being dead to the Law is not rejecting it. Being dead to the Law is being alive to God.

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

The stony heart follows after the law written on stone.

Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

This Spirit is alive to God. Its the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit causes Love, Joy, Peace and a multitude of other traits that cause us to walk in Gods statutes.

We can't do it by the working of our flesh and carnal minds.

Its not hard to understand. Its impossible to understand. It must be recieved and known and experienced.

John 3:6-8
[SUP]6 [/SUP]That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Somebody get the defib machine, Grandpa quoted another book besides Galatians.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
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Galatians 5:1-6
[SUP]1[/SUP]Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

If you turn back to the Law, to accomplish it in your own work, you are a debtor to do the whole law. You have forgotten the Rest that the Lord Jesus Christ has given you.

Galatians 5:16-18

[SUP]16 [/SUP]This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Haha John...
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."

English Standard Version
Revelation 12:17, "Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus."

" the woman"

Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though Yahweh's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are Yahweh's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Galatians 5:1-6
[SUP]1[/SUP]Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

If you turn back to the Law, to accomplish it in your own work, you are a debtor to do the whole law. You have forgotten the Rest that the Lord Jesus Christ has given you.

Galatians 5:16-18

[SUP]16 [/SUP]This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Haha John...
What is "the yoke of bondage?"

the ways of sin?

or

the ways of righteousness?
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,554
2,176
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I don't think it is what Paul says that is the problem but how it is interpreted and understood. The thing that bothers me is when people want to take what Paul said above what Jesus said, but then Paul was lead by the Holy Spirit so what Jesus said and Paul said should line up. Jesus did say that He was Lord of the Sabbath and as far as I can tell Paul was a Sabbath keeper going into Synagogues on more than one Sabbath.
 
Oct 30, 2014
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Sorry, but correct doctrine is absolutely necessary for proper understanding of God's word. If one were to accept their teaching, it would be, as I said, accepting a "gospel" of fear, not love.

If you are more concerned about being "politically correct" within the framework of spirituality that you are about proper doctrine, then you leave yourself open to being misled. I won't yell at you or chastise you for that. You wouldn't listen if I did. But that's not how I would give you such a warning. It would be in an attitude of love and fellowship. And you still might not listen.
If you can tell me which one of the forty-thousand Christian denominations or sects are correctly interpreting the bible into proper doctrine feel free mate.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,556
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Tennessee
If you can tell me which one of the forty-thousand Christian denominations or sects are correctly interpreting the bible into proper doctrine feel free mate.
Yes, I would like to know as well.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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Phillipians 3:20, "But our citizenship is in heaven, out from which we also eagerly wait for our Ruler, Yahshua Messiah the King."

Hebrews 13:14
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come."

John (Yahchanan 15:4-6, "Abide in Me, and I in you. Just as the branch cannot produce fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
What is "the yoke of bondage?"

the ways of sin?

or

the ways of righteousness?
Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

The yoke of bondage is the flesh and carnal mind working at the law. That is not the way of righteousness.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

The yoke of bondage is the flesh and carnal mind working at the law. That is not the way of righteousness.
For the record, IMO and truth no man can enter in based on his own righteousness

But why does John says this "let no man deceive you"

1 Yahchanan 3:7, "Little children, let no man deceive you; he who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."

and please don't attack me, but this is what the Messiah said, Him not me;

Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."

I see it in this light;

Yaaqob 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"

Romans 2:4-12, “Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and longsuffering; not realizing that Yahweh’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But according to your stubborn and impenitent mind you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of Yahweh’s wrath, when the righteous judgment of Yahweh will be revealed; when He will reward each one according to his works: to the ones on the one hand, who, by patient persistence in doing righteousness, seek for glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life. But to the ones on the other hand, who are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give indignation and wrath.” Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man who does evil: to the Yahdai(Jew) first, and also to the Greek (Gentile) But glory, honor, and peace to every man who works righteousness: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek. For there is no respect of persons with Yahweh.For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.”

James (Yaaqob) 2:12, "So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty."
 
Sep 16, 2014
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So because I take great joy when I do follow His Torah/Instructions/Law I am called a heretic... but as you stated His Spirit causes us to love and walk in His law, only Yah knows my heart.

Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

This is why Paul wrote;

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."
Galatians 1:6-24 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

[SUP]10 [/SUP] For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
[SUP]16 [/SUP] To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Afterwards I came into the regions of Syria and Cilicia;
[SUP]22 [/SUP] And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] And they glorified God in me.


You either agree with the Ho,y Spirit who gave Paul that gospel, or you don't. If you don't agree 100% with what Paul wrote, then you are accursed for preaching something opposing that. God will not tolerate cherry picking scriptures to justify adding Moses back in. Jesus and the apostles put up enough moral law to satisfy Moses many times over.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Galatians 1:6-24 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

[SUP]10 [/SUP] For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
[SUP]16 [/SUP] To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Afterwards I came into the regions of Syria and Cilicia;
[SUP]22 [/SUP] And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] And they glorified God in me.


You either agree with the Ho,y Spirit who gave Paul that gospel, or you don't. If you don't agree 100% with what Paul wrote, then you are accursed for preaching something opposing that. God will not tolerate cherry picking scriptures to justify adding Moses back in. Jesus and the apostles put up enough moral law to satisfy Moses many times over.
sure ok........
 
Sep 16, 2014
1,666
100
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For the record, IMO and truth no man can enter in based on his own righteousness

But why does John says this "let no man deceive you"

1 Yahchanan 3:7, "Little children, let no man deceive you; he who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."

and please don't attack me, but this is what the Messiah said, Him not me;

Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."

I see it in this light;

Yaaqob 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."

Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"

Romans 2:4-12, “Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and longsuffering; not realizing that Yahweh’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But according to your stubborn and impenitent mind you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of Yahweh’s wrath, when the righteous judgment of Yahweh will be revealed; when He will reward each one according to his works: to the ones on the one hand, who, by patient persistence in doing righteousness, seek for glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life. But to the ones on the other hand, who are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give indignation and wrath.” Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man who does evil: to the Yahdai(Jew) first, and also to the Greek (Gentile) But glory, honor, and peace to every man who works righteousness: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek. For there is no respect of persons with Yahweh.For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.”

James (Yaaqob) 2:12, "So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty."

You should continue on with what Paul wrote. Here's the rest of it....Romans 2:13-20 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
[SUP]19 [/SUP] And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.



Romans 2:21-29 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
[SUP]24 [/SUP] For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
[SUP]28 [/SUP] For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Many of us await your awakening.
2 Peter 3:14-18 (KJV) [SUP]14 [/SUP] Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
 
May 3, 2013
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Ha! Ha! Ha!

That sounds like saying: "Catholics are not going to be saved" or "JW aren´t saved".

Just for the records and ignore lists: Count ME as a non-pauline.

Jesus is the one who can save me, if GOD Almighty allows Him to do so (not by Paul´s teaching). :eek:

PS

Who put any of you on the JUDGEMENT Seats, by the way? :p
 
Last edited:
J

JesusistheChrist

Guest
I couldn't agree with you more on this point but I am going to ask you something, do you think I need Paul's doctrines to be saved or can I only follow Yeshua and be saved?
Hi, Gandalf.

Of course, you can be saved apart from Paul as multitudes were either before he was even born or before he even became an apostle.

Please don't take this next comment personally (unless it applies to you), especially since I honestly don't know a thing about your beliefs aside from what I've read in this specific thread. IOW, my next comment is for EVERYONE, both you and me included:

We don't need to use Hebrew names although there's nothing wrong with using the same.

I'll remind us all of the following:

Acts chapter 2

[1] And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
[2] And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
[3] And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
[4] And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
[5] And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
[6] Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
[7] And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
[8] And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
[9] Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
[10] Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
[11]
Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

"The wonderful works of God" CAN BE SPOKEN IN ANY TONGUE!

Just a friendly reminder for all of us.
 
J

JesusistheChrist

Guest
Hi, Hizikyah.

Although I actually sympathize with your position TO A DEGREE (you said some off the wall things on another thread and I'll eventually address the same), you really do need to stop singling out Paul in relation to "turning his words into licentiousness":

People misunderstand Paul and turn his words into licentiousness, for IT IS WRITTEN.

2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."
As you can see, I bold-faced in blue "AS THEY DO THE OTHER SCRIPTURES"! IOW, ignorant and unstable people wrest ALL OF THE BIBLE.

Just a friendly reminder for everyone here.
 
J

JesusistheChrist

Guest
You either agree with the Ho,y Spirit who gave Paul that gospel, or you don't. If you don't agree 100% with what Paul wrote, then you are accursed for preaching something opposing that. God will not tolerate cherry picking scriptures to justify adding Moses back in. Jesus and the apostles put up enough moral law to satisfy Moses many times over.
Hi, Word_Swordsman.

I'm not sure what Bible you're reading, but the apostles regularly derived their New Testament doctrine DIRECTLY FROM MOSES and taught it TO CHRISTIANS. Here are just a couple of examples:

Ephesians chapter 6

[1] Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
[2] Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise);
[3] That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.


Where do you think that Paul got that from? He got it from Exodus 20:12 and/or Deuteronomy 5:16 or FROM THE LAW OF MOSES.

I Peter chapter 1


[13] Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
[14] As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
[15] But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
[16]
Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Where do you think "it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy"? You might benefit from reading Leviticus 11:44-45, 19:2 & 20:26 or from reading THE LAW OF MOSES.

There's plenty more where that came from...
 
J

JesusistheChrist

Guest
InSpiritInTruth said:
Anyone who says they believe the words of Messiah, but at the same time reject the words of Paul as truth, is nothing more than a liar and a deceiver.
First let me say I stand by my statement above 100%, no exceptions, no matter who they are. Also this is not a OSAS thread as suggested, but a defending the Truth thread.
Hi, InSpiritInTruth.

Although I'm a firm supporter of both Paul and his writings, your opening statement isn't necessarily true. IOW, somebody could reject Paul's words out of genuine ignorance or as the direct result of sincerely believing wrong teaching. As such, they wouldn't really be "lying" or "seeking to deceive", but rather repeating their erroneous beliefs. Let's not make everybody out to be sinister, okay? Some people simply don't know any better yet and civil, scripture based DIALOGUE (as in BOTH SIDES answering each other's questions which doesn't seem to be the case here, quite frankly) is the best possible cure for the same.
 
J

JesusistheChrist

Guest
2Pet 3:15-16 (KJV) And account [that] the longsuffering of our Master [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest (or twist), as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

I have a question for you, let’s say I am a new Christian and I read the book of Peter and see this warning, I know I am not ready to understand brother Paul’s teachings and I study the whole Bible, build my relationship with Abba Father based on His word and before I can study Paul’s teachings I die an unfortunate death. Do you think I will be condemned to hell or is it possible that I can make heaven by the grace of God?
Again, Peter's warning includes "THE OTHER SCRIPTURES" or the whole Bible.
 
J

JesusistheChrist

Guest
What I see is group of people who filter every words of Scripture through Paul's writings, the only one that is singled out as hard to understand, and to any who will not do the same they are "rejecting revealed truth" and (cue "scary voice") super duper evil!!!!!
II Peter chapter 3

[15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
[16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

"In which are SOME THINGS hard to be understood" and, again, those who are "unlearned and unstable wrest...THE OTHER SCRIPTURES" or THE REST OF THE BIBLE, too.