Bible Translation Discussion Place
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Exactly what I thought. Go do some work... make God happy lol. Meanwhile, I'm gonna enjoy my Sabbath rest. 
But I wish you the best sitting on the sidelines.
As most of y'all veterans on here know, I can speak and type londonese FLUENTLY. It aint my native language but I bring this up for one reason and one reason only: As much as I love the KING JIMMY TRANSLATION, anyone who speaks multiple languages like me KNOWS how difficult and sometimes impossible it is to translate certain phrases and sayings to another language.
(not bragging just saying it so yall know im not just making it up! Im sure many Americans speak spanish as a second language too, especially in the Cali/Texas/Arizona area)
Now think on this: KOINE GREEK is a DEAD LANGUAGE.
Whats this got to do with the topic? WELL: No point in declaring just ONE translation infallible, when for each word there are multiple meanings and it depends largely on the context, with the way english is spoken today being VASTLY different from the KJV times and with new manuscript discoveries. If I pick up the KJV I can say "word of God says" and if I pick up an ESV i can say "word of God says" and its no problem! THE MESSAGE is there! Its the most important thing, THE GOSPEL
ALSO I would like to ask: What doctrines are affected by these New Translations that are hated on so much since they come from the 'corrupt' alexandrian manuscripts? Show me ONE DOCTRINE that is LOST because of this and i'll join the KJVOnly band wagon!
(not bragging just saying it so yall know im not just making it up! Im sure many Americans speak spanish as a second language too, especially in the Cali/Texas/Arizona area)
Now think on this: KOINE GREEK is a DEAD LANGUAGE.
Whats this got to do with the topic? WELL: No point in declaring just ONE translation infallible, when for each word there are multiple meanings and it depends largely on the context, with the way english is spoken today being VASTLY different from the KJV times and with new manuscript discoveries. If I pick up the KJV I can say "word of God says" and if I pick up an ESV i can say "word of God says" and its no problem! THE MESSAGE is there! Its the most important thing, THE GOSPEL
ALSO I would like to ask: What doctrines are affected by these New Translations that are hated on so much since they come from the 'corrupt' alexandrian manuscripts? Show me ONE DOCTRINE that is LOST because of this and i'll join the KJVOnly band wagon!
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I bought an NRSV today in a thrift store I was hoping for the RSV but they only had one Bible for sale It was pretty much in pristine condition An unexpected plus is added phonetic symbols for hard to pronounce names
I was hoping for the RSV but they only had one Bible for sale It was pretty much in pristine condition An unexpected plus is added phonetic symbols for hard to pronounce names
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Well how about the doctrine of being born again. You and everybody on this forum will say that being born again and being saved are the same thing when the bible clearly defines both and they ain't the same.
Find a verse in the bible that contradicts 1 Peter 1:23, which states that we are born again by the INCORRUPTIBLE word of God.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Now unless you are completely different than most Christians, I'm gonna sit back and watch you twist those simple little words to make it say what you want it to say lol. No offence, but I know how people don't pay ANY ATTENTION to the actual words written on paper. They've been trained by the likes of "a better translation would have been..." people.
Find a verse in the bible that contradicts 1 Peter 1:23, which states that we are born again by the INCORRUPTIBLE word of God.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Now unless you are completely different than most Christians, I'm gonna sit back and watch you twist those simple little words to make it say what you want it to say lol. No offence, but I know how people don't pay ANY ATTENTION to the actual words written on paper. They've been trained by the likes of "a better translation would have been..." people.
Unfortunately, you're likely to get some silly responses to this invitation. The standard KJVO line presents one verse that is different in modern translations (usually for good reason) and allegedly removes an important doctrine, while completely ignoring other verses that support it. Watch also for fallacious arguments.
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John 1:12 is attached with "a personal surrender to Him" in Vine's definition. John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name. There is the personal surrender to Him. When we choose to believe in/have faith in Christ unto salvation (Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8) we are entrusting our spiritual well being to Christ, along with placing confidence, trust and reliance in Him for salvation. That would be a personal surrender to Him, resulting in justification (Romans 5:1) and that is the ROOT of salvation.
The FRUIT of salvation would be living by or "out of" faith, as we see 2 Corinthians 5:7 attached with "a conduct inspired by such surrender" in Vine's definition, which reads - For we walk/live by faith and not by sight. This is our continued walk with the Lord by which by or "out of" faith believers bear fruit/produce works. So faith in Christ is the ROOT of salvation and "a conduct inspired by surrender" which FOLLOWS and produces good works would be the FRUIT. Your understanding of Vine's results in mixing Cause and Effect.
Your definition of pisteuo amounts to salvation by grace through faith PLUS WORKS, contrary to salvation through faith, NOT WORKS (Romans 4:5-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).
I have a Strong's expanded exhaustive concordance of the Bible and Pisteuo #4100 says - to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), to entrust (especially one's spiritual well being to Christ). It goes on to say, Pisteuo means not just to believe, but also to be persuaded of; and hence, to place confidence in, to trust, and signifies, in this sense of the word, reliance upon. *Nothing there about a life inspired by such surrender which follows saving faith in Christ/fruit of faith/good works being mixed in with the definition of Pisteuo.* In the saving sense of Pisteuo, I agree with Strong's. Saving faith is belief, trust, reliance in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.
The FRUIT of salvation would be living by or "out of" faith, as we see 2 Corinthians 5:7 attached with "a conduct inspired by such surrender" in Vine's definition, which reads - For we walk/live by faith and not by sight. This is our continued walk with the Lord by which by or "out of" faith believers bear fruit/produce works. So faith in Christ is the ROOT of salvation and "a conduct inspired by surrender" which FOLLOWS and produces good works would be the FRUIT. Your understanding of Vine's results in mixing Cause and Effect.
Your definition of pisteuo amounts to salvation by grace through faith PLUS WORKS, contrary to salvation through faith, NOT WORKS (Romans 4:5-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).
I have a Strong's expanded exhaustive concordance of the Bible and Pisteuo #4100 says - to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), to entrust (especially one's spiritual well being to Christ). It goes on to say, Pisteuo means not just to believe, but also to be persuaded of; and hence, to place confidence in, to trust, and signifies, in this sense of the word, reliance upon. *Nothing there about a life inspired by such surrender which follows saving faith in Christ/fruit of faith/good works being mixed in with the definition of Pisteuo.* In the saving sense of Pisteuo, I agree with Strong's. Saving faith is belief, trust, reliance in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.
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Matthew 9:24 Lord I Believe, help thou my unbelief.
Faith is belief proceeding from reliance on testimony or authority. Theologically, it is a belief of the truths of religion contained in the Holy scripture. It may have been your given definition of the English faith or Greek Pisteou which you said is a Noun but saying now an action word-verb.
Faith is belief proceeding from reliance on testimony or authority. Theologically, it is a belief of the truths of religion contained in the Holy scripture. It may have been your given definition of the English faith or Greek Pisteou which you said is a Noun but saying now an action word-verb.
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It's the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing, that allow work and effort , ( courage and tinacity) to be separated from true Pisteuo or NT saving Faith. The Greek doesn't allow work and effort, courage and tinacity to be separated from pisteuo.
The Strong's specifically stated "Pisteuo means NOT just to believe:
The Strong's specifically stated "Pisteuo means NOT just to believe:
As you did not indicate that the link was anything other than a source for the quotation you provided (which is appropriate), I had no reason to check it out. I don't need to do homework to justify your point. Rather, if you knew of additional material on that site, you should have pointed me to it. As it is, I don't see anything in the index noting evidence of tampering or intentional corruption of the biblical text.
I believe, it is not mistranslated at all. The translation of a word would have to depend on its context. What we have is about translation, not a mere definition of a Greek word in English. Nevertheless, the KJV translators are correct to say because they knew pisteou is not to be translated uniformly as "believe". Actually, the KJV did not consider "believing" in the translation of pisteou.
Pisteou, according to the KJV has entirely 248x word usage translated in English as believe 239, commit unto 4, commit to (one's) trust 1, be committed unto 1, be put in trust with 1, be commit to one's trust 1, believer 1
Pisteou, according to the KJV has entirely 248x word usage translated in English as believe 239, commit unto 4, commit to (one's) trust 1, be committed unto 1, be put in trust with 1, be commit to one's trust 1, believer 1
Your mistranslation argument is a desperate attempt to "shoe horn" works "into" salvation through faith. Roman Catholics share a similar argument to yours. I was in a discussion with a Roman Catholic who said that the Roman Catholic church did not teach salvation by works, then afterwards, contradicted himself by making this statement below:
We ARE saved by faith as long as you properly define "Faith." Faith is NOT simply "believing." Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..
Difference in style, but same in substance to your argument that results in salvation through faith + works. His argument about faith being "defined as" and INCLUDES these works above is just sugar coated double talk and equates to salvation through faith + works. It's all just smoke and mirrors.
Strong's #4102: pistis (pronounced pis'-tis) from 3982; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.
We ARE saved by faith as long as you properly define "Faith." Faith is NOT simply "believing." Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..
Difference in style, but same in substance to your argument that results in salvation through faith + works. His argument about faith being "defined as" and INCLUDES these works above is just sugar coated double talk and equates to salvation through faith + works. It's all just smoke and mirrors.
Strong's #4102: pistis (pronounced pis'-tis) from 3982; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.
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Well, I believe, I have already demonstrated the truths about corruption of the scripture giving examples of textual evidence and testimonial evidence. Of course, I am no need giving any further proofs because what I have already given are just weighty.
In the meantime. I have just to finish reading some article of Sophism, sophistry, sophist which over time, it came to denote a class of itinerant intellectuals who taught courses in "excellence" or "virtue", (often charging high fees for it), who speculated about the nature of language and culture, and who employed rhetoric to achieve their purposes (which was generally to persuade or convince others).
Sophistry as its best appeals to general wisdom and especially wisdom about human affairs.
In the meantime. I have just to finish reading some article of Sophism, sophistry, sophist which over time, it came to denote a class of itinerant intellectuals who taught courses in "excellence" or "virtue", (often charging high fees for it), who speculated about the nature of language and culture, and who employed rhetoric to achieve their purposes (which was generally to persuade or convince others).
Sophistry as its best appeals to general wisdom and especially wisdom about human affairs.