Biblical Eternal Security vs 'Calvinistic Eternal Security' -by Gregg Jackson

[FreeGrace2]

[QUOTE="FreeGrace2, post: 4620210, member: 304922"
Why would anyone who claims to be a Christian would use such pejorative words with "grace". "hyper" means or insinuates "too much". There is no such thing as too much grace.

Your play with words, particularly in providing your own false definitions for words used by me, and re-defining the term "hypergrace" to suit your animus toward the one that called you an antinomian-hypergracer, only shows you lack integrity and decency.

So, its no wonder that, as an antinomian-hypergracer, you think it's perfectly okay to be disobedient to Jesus's command to observe all that He has commanded.[/QUOTE]
i've already proved from James 4:6 that there is no such thing as "hyper-grace". That's just a pejorative word to denigrate the FACT that God's grace is available to everyone in the human race.

And Titus 2:11 totally refutes your notions about grace.

 

[JerryInBoston]

You have it so wrong, I don't know where to begin.


If God causes peole to believe, how come you haven't shown me any verse that says so?

Because there aren't any. What you believe is a myth. That is why there are no verses that say that God causes belief.

Belief comes from the heart, not from God. Rom 10:9 says belief is from the heart. But you don't believe that verse.

God's more abundant grace (your words) changes the hearts of the spiritually dead, and the spiritually dead who respond to God's grace offer are made alive, reborn, gifted salvation and faith.

You certainly don't agree with your own words "MORE ABUNDANT GRACE" when you don't believe God causes changed hearts from unbelieving spiritually dead to alive with gifts of salvation repentance and faith.

I have a BIG POWERFUL GOD who causes people to change from unbelief to belief.

You...well, you don't think God can cause anyone to change from unbelief to belief.

 

[JerryInBoston]

Your play with words, particularly in providing your own false definitions for words used by me, and re-defining the term "hypergrace" to suit your animus toward the one that called you an antinomian-hypergracer, only shows you lack integrity and decency.

So, its no wonder that, as an antinomian-hypergracer, you think it's perfectly okay to be disobedient to Jesus's command to observe all that He has commanded.

i've already proved from James 4:6 that there is no such thing as "hyper-grace". That's just a pejorative word to denigrate the FACT that God's grace is available to everyone in the human race.

And Titus 2:11 totally refutes your notions about grace.[/QUOTE]

I did not come up with the term antinomian or hypergrace, but whoever did also defined them. Go look them up. You might see your picture is on its page.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
I've also shown you the verse that says the grace of God OFFERS salvation to everyone. So there goes the highly unbiblical doctrine of limited atonement. Boom!!

There is heaven, and there is hell.

That's something we agree on!!

Those who enter heaven are covered by Christ's sacrifice. Those who enter hell are not covered by Christ's sacrifice. Therefore, the atonement is definitely limited to the one's who are heaven bound: the predestnated elect.

Well, you just bolted to the non-biblical side of things.

Here are the verses that STATE that Christ died for everyone.

John 1:29 - The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 4:42 - They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”

Neither John the baptizer or the Samaritans were Calvinists who tried to force the word "world" to only mean "the elect" as Calvinists do.

2 Cor 5-
14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.
15And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

Heb 2:9 - But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

1 Tim 2-
4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

1 Tim 4:10 - That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 2:2 - He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:14 - And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

In NONE of these contexts can you find anything that limits "world" to "world of the elect".

The Bible teaches that Jesus Christ died for everyone. I believe the Bible. And Titus 2:11 clearly supports the fact that Christ died for everyone. That's why Titus can say that the grace of God OFFERS (not FORCES) salvation to everyone.

 

[FreeGrace2]

God's more abundant grace (your words)

Please read my posts. "more abundant grace" are NOT my words. They are biblical words. James 4:6, which I gave 4 English translations for you to read.

You certainly don't agree with your own words "MORE ABUNDANT GRACE" when you don't believe God causes changed hearts from unbelieving spiritually dead to alive with gifts of salvation repentance and faith.

Your entire view of mankind is so off kilter and unbiblical it seems imposslble to straighten you out.

I have a BIG POWERFUL GOD who causes people to change from unbelief to belief.

Oh yeah, there you go with your FORCEFUL words again. But Titus 2:11 STILL refutes your notions. Salvation is OFFERED to everyone, not FORCED on a few.

You...well, you don't think God can cause anyone to change from unbelief to belief.

I KNOW what God can and does do. He OFFERS salvation to everyone. But it is clear from your pejorative posts that you don't believe what Titus 2:11 says so clearly.

I also KNOW what God doesn't do. He doesn't FORCE people to believe.

 

[JerryInBoston]

FreeGrace2 said:
I've also shown you the verse that says the grace of God OFFERS salvation to everyone. So there goes the highly unbiblical doctrine of limited atonement. Boom!!

That's something we agree on!!


Well, you just bolted to the non-biblical side of things.

Here are the verses that STATE that Christ died for everyone.

John 1:29 - The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 4:42 - They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”

Neither John the baptizer or the Samaritans were Calvinists who tried to force the word "world" to only mean "the elect" as Calvinists do.

2 Cor 5-
14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.
15And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

Heb 2:9 - But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

1 Tim 2-
4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

1 Tim 4:10 - That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 2:2 - He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:14 - And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

In NONE of these contexts can you find anything that limits "world" to "world of the elect".

The Bible teaches that Jesus Christ died for everyone. I believe the Bible. And Titus 2:11 clearly supports the fact that Christ died for everyone. That's why Titus can say that the grace of God OFFERS (not FORCES) salvation to everyone.

Yet "all" are not heaven bound, but the elect are heaven bound.

The entire "world" will not believe, but the elect do believe.

John 3:16 is clear, anyone believing has eternal life, and the "anyone" refers to the elect that do believe.

 

[JerryInBoston]

Please read my posts. "more abundant grace" are NOT my words. They are biblical words. James 4:6, which I gave 4 English translations for you to read.


Your entire view of mankind is so off kilter and unbiblical it seems imposslble to straighten you out.


Oh yeah, there you go with your FORCEFUL words again. But Titus 2:11 STILL refutes your notions. Salvation is OFFERED to everyone, not FORCED on a few.


I KNOW what God can and does do. He OFFERS salvation to everyone. But it is clear from your pejorative posts that you don't believe what Titus 2:11 says so clearly.

I also KNOW what God doesn't do. He doesn't FORCE people to believe.

You obviously reject the unbridled sovereign will and authority of God. That's on you.

 

[JerryInBoston]

Please read my posts. "more abundant grace" are NOT my words. They are biblical words. James 4:6, which I gave 4 English translations for you to read.


Your entire view of mankind is so off kilter and unbiblical it seems imposslble to straighten you out.


Oh yeah, there you go with your FORCEFUL words again. But Titus 2:11 STILL refutes your notions. Salvation is OFFERED to everyone, not FORCED on a few.


I KNOW what God can and does do. He OFFERS salvation to everyone. But it is clear from your pejorative posts that you don't believe what Titus 2:11 says so clearly.

I also KNOW what God doesn't do. He doesn't FORCE people to believe.

I don't read Weymouth, who added the word "abundant" to the text. Wonder how much more text Weymouth amended with his own choice of words. SDA's did the same with their clear word Bible.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yet "all" are not heaven bound, but the elect are heaven bound.

Of course not. Only those who trust Jesus Christ as Savior are heaven bound.

But the verses I quoted prove that Christ died for everyone.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The entire "world" will not believe, but the elect do believe.

John 3:16 is clear, anyone believing has eternal life, and the "anyone" refers to the elect that do believe.

We know from Eph 1:4 and 19 that the word "us" means "we who have believed".

 

[FreeGrace2]

You obviously reject the unbridled sovereign will and authority of God. That's on you.

Nonsense. otoh, you obviously have no proof of your wildly inaccurate depiction of God and His grace.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I don't read Weymouth, who added the word "abundant" to the text. Wonder how much more text Weymouth amended with his own choice of words. SDA's did the same with their clear word Bible.

Are you saying that you don't know that "more" and "abundant" mean the same?

 

[posthuman]

But now, the gospels and the NT teach us way more clearly. So why hang on to OT rituals, when the REALITY is here?

They aren't so indistinct from each other, but extremely interconnected. Just as an example, understanding how 1st Kings 13 and 2 Kings 22-23 speak of Christ reveal why Matthew 4 and the cleaning of the temple happened, and at the same time seeing that Jesus cleared out the temple and was tested by Satan help us understand why Jeroboam, the unnamed prophet, and Josiah are in the Bible. They are not just random events and they are not just there so we can learn that evil is bad and goodness is good - they are there to reveal and teach us about Christ.

When the Lord and His apostles were teaching the only 'scriptures' were the OT. They are still scripture. These are the things the Bereans were searching to find out if the gospel is true: so they are teaching the gospel.

The same is true of the feasts and the law. It's not that I'm trying to 'observe Yom Kippur' - but God gave it for a reason, and that reason is ultimately Christ. I study the OT in order to understand the NT, and vice versa, and all, to know Him better

 

[JerryInBoston]

Are you saying that you don't know that "more" and "abundant" mean the same?

It figures you would use a paraphrase as your guide. Weymouth takes too much liberty with adding his own words, words not found in the manuscripts.

 

[JerryInBoston]

Are you saying that you don't know that "more" and "abundant" mean the same?

No, "abundant" and "more", by itself, are not synonymous.

 

[JerryInBoston]

Nonsense. otoh, you obviously have no proof of your wildly inaccurate depiction of God and His grace.

Yeah, okay. I'm going to take your word, someone who reads from one of the worst translations paraphrased Bible's there is.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It figures you would use a paraphrase as your guide. Weymouth takes too much liberty with adding his own words, words not found in the manuscripts.

You need to get your facts straight. I quoted 4 or 5 translations. You keep insinuating I only use Weymouth's. Stop the deceit. Or is God FORCING you into deceit?

 

[FreeGrace2]

No, "abundant" and "more", by itself, are not synonymous.

You are in serious need of a dictionary.

 

[JerryInBoston]

You are in serious need of a dictionary.

I would go to a thesaurus instead. But I don't need to because the two are not synonymous.

 

[JerryInBoston]

You need to get your facts straight. I quoted 4 or 5 translations. You keep insinuating I only use Weymouth's. Stop the deceit. Or is God FORCING you into deceit?

"Abundant" is in Weymouth, not the NIV.