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Every wonderful Christian Lady involved the development of and growth of my faith in Christ would not hesitate to tell you that women are not to pastor (be the spiritual leader of) a church. They would also tell you that women are not to teach men's classes. The Scriptures they would cite have already been posted.
IMHO, when God has a job that needs a woman to do it, he is going to call a woman to do it. Today there are places where men cannot go that need to hear the Gospel. I have no doubt that God will place a woman pastor in those places.
IMHO, when God has a job that needs a woman to do it, he is going to call a woman to do it. Today there are places where men cannot go that need to hear the Gospel. I have no doubt that God will place a woman pastor in those places.
Mormons, Joseph Smith, male
Jehovah's Witnesses, Charles Taze Russell, male
Orthodox Baha'i, Mason Remey, male
The New Church, Emanuel Swedenborg, male
Wahabi Islam, Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab, male
Christadelphians, John Thomas, male
as against...
Seventh-Day Adventists, Ellen G. White, female
Christian Science, Mary Baker Eddy, female
Yes, there are many more. Here's a list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_founders_of_religious_traditions
You'll find the founders are, numerically, overwhelmingly male.
Yes; I think he and I posted about the same time.
Jehovah's Witnesses, Charles Taze Russell, male
Orthodox Baha'i, Mason Remey, male
The New Church, Emanuel Swedenborg, male
Wahabi Islam, Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab, male
Christadelphians, John Thomas, male
as against...
Seventh-Day Adventists, Ellen G. White, female
Christian Science, Mary Baker Eddy, female
Yes, there are many more. Here's a list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_founders_of_religious_traditions
You'll find the founders are, numerically, overwhelmingly male.
Yes; I think he and I posted about the same time.
A
I know some folks don't watch YouTube so I am pulling the scriptures out of it...
Women are allowed to pray and prophesies:
1 Corinthians 11v5
Operate in gifts of the spirit
1 Corinthians 12
Minister to others
Acts 18v 24-28
Romans 16v1
Demonstrate the fruit of the spirit
Galatians 5v22-24
Proclaim the gospel
Matthew 28v18-20
Acts 1v8
1 Peter 3v15
So if women are allowed to do all that....what duties of a pastor are they not allowed to perform?
What are the duties of a pastor again?
Women are allowed to pray and prophesies:
1 Corinthians 11v5
Operate in gifts of the spirit
1 Corinthians 12
Minister to others
Acts 18v 24-28
Romans 16v1
Demonstrate the fruit of the spirit
Galatians 5v22-24
Proclaim the gospel
Matthew 28v18-20
Acts 1v8
1 Peter 3v15
So if women are allowed to do all that....what duties of a pastor are they not allowed to perform?
What are the duties of a pastor again?
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The Promise of the Spirit
Joel 2:28“It will come about after this
That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind;
And your sons and daughters will prophesy,
Your old men will dream dreams,
Your young men will see visions. 29“Even on the male and female servants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
Acts 2:16but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel: 17‘AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,’ God says,
‘THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND;
AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY,
AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS,
AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS; 18EVEN ON MY BONDSLAVES, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN,
I WILL IN THOSE DAYS POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT
And they shall prophesy.
All these folks who don't believe in women speaking with authority for God have no idea what the gift of prophecy entails.
Paul recommends that the gift of prophecy be used over tongues because it's a superior gift. Prophecy is speaking for God - every form of speaking for God, whether it's teaching, preaching, prophesying, word of knowledge, any ministry that the Holy Spirit speaks thru you.
Get into the dictionaries, the lexicons..... & re-educate yourself.
Joel 2:28“It will come about after this
That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind;
And your sons and daughters will prophesy,
Your old men will dream dreams,
Your young men will see visions. 29“Even on the male and female servants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
Acts 2:16but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel: 17‘AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,’ God says,
‘THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND;
AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY,
AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS,
AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS; 18EVEN ON MY BONDSLAVES, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN,
I WILL IN THOSE DAYS POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT
And they shall prophesy.
All these folks who don't believe in women speaking with authority for God have no idea what the gift of prophecy entails.
Paul recommends that the gift of prophecy be used over tongues because it's a superior gift. Prophecy is speaking for God - every form of speaking for God, whether it's teaching, preaching, prophesying, word of knowledge, any ministry that the Holy Spirit speaks thru you.
Get into the dictionaries, the lexicons..... & re-educate yourself.
A
But yeah I don't get how folks can make a list of all women can do, that to me describes what a minister or pastor should do ...but then say women shouldn't be given the title and authority of being a pastor?
Firstly, authority isn't given by man but from God and as Stephen mentioned it's not about power over, but servanthood towards others.
Secondly, .....
I don't really have a second point. Lol.
Bedtime for sure.
Firstly, authority isn't given by man but from God and as Stephen mentioned it's not about power over, but servanthood towards others.
Secondly, .....
I don't really have a second point. Lol.
Bedtime for sure.
I you're aware, the duties or responsibilities of a "pastor" are not spelled out in Scripture. While the word is associated with 'teachers' in Ephesians 4:11, it is unclear from the English whether Paul had in mind one ministry role with two emphases, or two relatively-distinct roles. Either way, the Bible is silent on the subject. The only clue is from the word itself, which means, "shepherd". By looking at what a shepherd does for his sheep, we get some insight.
From that I would suggest that the role of a shepherd is to protect the sheep, guide them to good pasture and clean water, know them individually, and be faithful to them in times of trouble. At times, the shepherd may need to correct a persistently-wayward sheep, but that would be infrequent. Methinks the average mother does a pretty good job of those things for her kids, so I see no reason why wise and godly women can't be pastors.
From that I would suggest that the role of a shepherd is to protect the sheep, guide them to good pasture and clean water, know them individually, and be faithful to them in times of trouble. At times, the shepherd may need to correct a persistently-wayward sheep, but that would be infrequent. Methinks the average mother does a pretty good job of those things for her kids, so I see no reason why wise and godly women can't be pastors.
It just comes down to the few sections where Paul speaks about woman. But if you look at all scripture about woman you will see his statements to be very different.
So we must ask why?
Maybe because in context Paul is speaking to a church that is in a region that were strict on woman.
It was there culture in that area that Paul was taking into consideration.
We cant just base our beliefs on one or a few scriptures but look at the continuity of scripture and study how does it all fit with each other knowing the Bible does not contradict itself.
People focus so hard on certain scripture like they are creating a new gospel off a few scriptures that are taken out of context, misunderstood, or worse twisted.
So we must ask why?
Maybe because in context Paul is speaking to a church that is in a region that were strict on woman.
It was there culture in that area that Paul was taking into consideration.
We cant just base our beliefs on one or a few scriptures but look at the continuity of scripture and study how does it all fit with each other knowing the Bible does not contradict itself.
People focus so hard on certain scripture like they are creating a new gospel off a few scriptures that are taken out of context, misunderstood, or worse twisted.
Hi Ariel,
Maybe this will be helpful. It's from got questions.com
1) The elders help to settle disputes in the church. “While Paul and Barnabas were at Antioch of Syria, some men from Judea arrived and began to teach the Christians 'unless you keep the ancient Jewish custom of circumcision taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.' Paul and Barnabas, disagreeing with them, argued forcefully and at length. Finally, Paul and Barnabas were sent to Jerusalem, accompanied by some local believers, to talk to the apostles and elders about this question” (Acts 15:1-2, NLT). The question was raised and forcefully argued, then taken to the apostles and elders for a decision. This passage teaches that elders are decision makers.
2) They pray for the sick. "Is any sick among you? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord" (James 5:14). Since the elders have to meet specific qualifications, their lives are godly and therefore the sin in their lives is minimal and is confessed regularly; therefore, they are used to pray for the sick. One of the necessities in prayer is praying for the Lord’s will to be done, and they are expected to do this.
3) They are to watch out for the church in humility. "I exhort the elders who are among you, I being also an elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed. Feed the flock of God among you, taking the oversight, not by compulsion, but willingly; nor for base gain, but readily; nor as lording it over those allotted to you by God, but becoming examples to the flock. And when the Chief Shepherd shall appear, you shall receive a never-fading crown of glory” (1 Peter 5:1-4). Elders are the designated leaders of the church, and the flock is entrusted to them by God. They are not to lead for the pay or the reward but because of their desire to serve and shepherd the flock
.4) They are to watch out for the spiritual life of the flock. "Yield to those leading you, and be submissive, for they watch for your souls, as those who must give account, that they may do it with joy and not with grief; for that is unprofitable for you" (Hebrews 13:17). This verse does not specifically say “elders,” but it is talking about the church leaders. They are accountable for the spiritual life of the church.
5) They are to spend their time in prayer and teaching the word. "And the Twelve called near the multitude of the disciples and said, ‘It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables. Therefore, brethren, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may appoint to this duty. But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word’” (Acts 6:2-4). This is for the apostles, but we can see from the passage above in #3 that Peter equates himself as an apostle and an elder. From this verse you can also see the difference between the duties of elder and deacon.Simply put, the elders should be peacemakers, prayer warriors, teachers, leaders by example, and decision makers. They are the preaching and teaching leaders of the church. It is a position to be sought but not taken lightly—read this warning: "Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, for you know that we who teach shall be judged with greater strictness" (James 3:1). The role of elder is not a position to be taken lightly.
Maybe this will be helpful. It's from got questions.com
1) The elders help to settle disputes in the church. “While Paul and Barnabas were at Antioch of Syria, some men from Judea arrived and began to teach the Christians 'unless you keep the ancient Jewish custom of circumcision taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.' Paul and Barnabas, disagreeing with them, argued forcefully and at length. Finally, Paul and Barnabas were sent to Jerusalem, accompanied by some local believers, to talk to the apostles and elders about this question” (Acts 15:1-2, NLT). The question was raised and forcefully argued, then taken to the apostles and elders for a decision. This passage teaches that elders are decision makers.
2) They pray for the sick. "Is any sick among you? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord" (James 5:14). Since the elders have to meet specific qualifications, their lives are godly and therefore the sin in their lives is minimal and is confessed regularly; therefore, they are used to pray for the sick. One of the necessities in prayer is praying for the Lord’s will to be done, and they are expected to do this.
3) They are to watch out for the church in humility. "I exhort the elders who are among you, I being also an elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed. Feed the flock of God among you, taking the oversight, not by compulsion, but willingly; nor for base gain, but readily; nor as lording it over those allotted to you by God, but becoming examples to the flock. And when the Chief Shepherd shall appear, you shall receive a never-fading crown of glory” (1 Peter 5:1-4). Elders are the designated leaders of the church, and the flock is entrusted to them by God. They are not to lead for the pay or the reward but because of their desire to serve and shepherd the flock
.4) They are to watch out for the spiritual life of the flock. "Yield to those leading you, and be submissive, for they watch for your souls, as those who must give account, that they may do it with joy and not with grief; for that is unprofitable for you" (Hebrews 13:17). This verse does not specifically say “elders,” but it is talking about the church leaders. They are accountable for the spiritual life of the church.
5) They are to spend their time in prayer and teaching the word. "And the Twelve called near the multitude of the disciples and said, ‘It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables. Therefore, brethren, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may appoint to this duty. But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word’” (Acts 6:2-4). This is for the apostles, but we can see from the passage above in #3 that Peter equates himself as an apostle and an elder. From this verse you can also see the difference between the duties of elder and deacon.Simply put, the elders should be peacemakers, prayer warriors, teachers, leaders by example, and decision makers. They are the preaching and teaching leaders of the church. It is a position to be sought but not taken lightly—read this warning: "Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, for you know that we who teach shall be judged with greater strictness" (James 3:1). The role of elder is not a position to be taken lightly.
We also must as ourselves is this way of think reasonable now in our culture or not?
Slavery was a normal thing back then. And we have all sorts of scripture about slaves. But none say we should promote slavery. It just was the culture and God taught people how slaves should be treated among that culture.
Do we agree with slavery today? No we dont because it is not reasonable within our culture.
Slavery was a normal thing back then. And we have all sorts of scripture about slaves. But none say we should promote slavery. It just was the culture and God taught people how slaves should be treated among that culture.
Do we agree with slavery today? No we dont because it is not reasonable within our culture.
J
servants and bound slaves in the bible are different than how americans view slaves
i agree with all of how God wanted things
just us humans drop the ball and corrupt things
imagine u had massive debt and were homeless
u could be a slave to work off ur debt and have a house and food
if u loved the family and they loved you you could choose to be a bound slave and its kinda like part of the family
and if u wanted to leave they gave you means to get ur life started
i agree with all of how God wanted things
just us humans drop the ball and corrupt things
imagine u had massive debt and were homeless
u could be a slave to work off ur debt and have a house and food
if u loved the family and they loved you you could choose to be a bound slave and its kinda like part of the family
and if u wanted to leave they gave you means to get ur life started
A
I never liked the "culture" argument.
Human culture changes but most of God's laws are eternal
The Israelites wanted a king like others too, so God gave them a king to enslave them.
I believe we have a hand in creating and shaping our culture.
I am still waiting for more scriptures and what duties people think a pastor has that women don't preform in the Bible.
They can teach, evangelize, comfort, exhort/propheses, pray....don't pastors do all that?
What extra is missing?
Human culture changes but most of God's laws are eternal
The Israelites wanted a king like others too, so God gave them a king to enslave them.
I believe we have a hand in creating and shaping our culture.
I am still waiting for more scriptures and what duties people think a pastor has that women don't preform in the Bible.
They can teach, evangelize, comfort, exhort/propheses, pray....don't pastors do all that?
What extra is missing?