Born Again Speaking in Tongues

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7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Why the disagreement 7seas?

hey ~ please read my post 1110

it seems we are sealed with the Holy Spirit when we believe, and the baptism in the Holy Spirit is separate

I believe it is recorded in Acts that way

do you see that?
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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AMEN...if the SPIRIT of HIM that raised up JESUS dwell in you <----->Paul told the church at Ephesus what it means to be continually filled with the Spirit......he uses a few subordinate clauses on the heels of a present, passive imperative verb to show what it means to be continually filled with the Spirit in Ephesians 5:18-21 and speaking in tongues is not listed.....
Paul does not specifically reference speaking in tongues in Ephesians but that does not change what he points out in another epistle. Paul makes it clear that those speaking in an unknown tongue are speaking to God. He also mentions praying and singing in the spirit as well as his regular language. All of these are ways the Holy Ghost edifies His children.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
The Bible says they were already saved and then LATER the Holy Spirit came upon them.

yes

but you wrote to someone they only had God and Jesus and no Holy Spirit

that's what I understood anyway...but with the air around here, did I read you wrong?

again, sealed and then baptized 'in'
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
here is my post again (1066) that you disagreed with. you espouse the belief that we are baptized in the Spirit of God upon conversion but that is not backed up by either the words of Jesus or the events that transpired that fulfilled his prophetic announcement (he said what would happen before it did) the baptism IN the Holy Spirit is for what? Jesus said the ULTIMATE purpose was for power to witness for Him. the gifts are for the body. I cannot address all you wrote right now. later if I can. but what does Jesus say?

such confusion. this is what happens when cessationists try to make scripture fit their belief

to be baptized in the Holy Spirit does not mean this is what happens when you accept Christ as your Savior. this is not the biblical model and is a corrupted interpretation

first off, as I brought up some weeks back, the actual GREEK is to be baptized IN and not with. throughout the entire NT there are only 2 prepositions used with the verb phrase 'to baptize'. those words are IN and INTO

when Jesus states 'for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.' Acts 1:5, before he was taken up into heaven, He also states that the purpose of such a baptism is

8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.' Acts 1

now the disciples and all those who were still with Jesus were obviously already saved.

let me repeat that. THE DISCIPLES WERE ALREADY SAVED WHEN JESUS SAID THIS

so, this errant teaching that baptism in the Holy Spirit is accepting Christ is corrupt and not biblical

there are some individuals here who do not accept the baptism IN the Holy Spirit and therefore, have created their own version of what the words mean

so, the fact the disciples were saved and yet Jesus told them to WAIT for the Holy Spirit whom the Father was going to send, indicates that the baptism in the Holy Spirit is a separate and DISTINCT event

so we understand, from Jesus' words and the chronological events described in the book of Acts, that you are saved when you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (don't confuse this with sanctification or anything that comes after. this is an event IN the history of your life that is not duplicated) and the enduement for power to witness for Him comes when you are baptized IN the Holy Spirit

any other version of events or meaning is, again, a corruption of the text and should be tossed aside like the lie that it is

the Bible is more than clear that if you do not have the baptism IN the Holy Spirit you do NOT have this power that Jesus speaks of

there is no way around that, other than to deny the words of Christ and create a corruption of the text
Baptism of the spirit

Rom 6
Col 2
1 cor 12
Gal 3


Just like God baptised the children of Isreal into moses, He baptises us into Christ.

The OT symbol of baptizing priests and gentiles are an example of what this baptism would be, (as for the priesthood. The fact the ANOINTING of oil, and the fact Jesus was anointed wiht the spirit proves baptism and anointing are two different events)

The NT symbol of water baptism also symbolises the baptism of the spirit.

Baptism of the spirit is not some religious act that gave you a gift of tongues.


John the baptist said jesus would baptise with the HS (this baptism would be the MEANS by with the wheat (the people God has salved out of this world) and with Fire (the means by whihc he will totally immerse the chaff into the fire that shall never be quenched or hell)

Everyone will be baptized, You better chose the correct baptism.

So yes, I do have jesus on my side.

The gifts of the spirit come through the ANNOINTING ministry of the hs (the holy spirit COMING INTO YOU)

But BAPTISM of God MUST occur first. The fact that the gifts appeared AFTER they were baptised by the spirit is just by coincidence,

If they were NOT baptized by God. They would not be saved, and HENCE would never have had the HS come INTO THEM, , (anoint) and hence they would not have a gift of the spirit.

You need to take the whole counil of god, not just a few small verses, to make a doctrine work.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Eph 1: 13 - 14 13In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[a] is the [b]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

This scripture speaks of one trusting in Jesus and His sacrifice. And after hearing the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation they will be sealed with the Holy Ghost. The word is clear that upon believing in Jesus all must repent, and be baptized in Jesus name and they will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. The sequence in which one gets water baptized and receives the infilling of the Holy Ghost is of no significance. What is significant is that all must be followed in order to be sealed with the Holy Ghost. If this were not so the biblical record would be free of personal experiences reflecting this truth. However, there are multiple scriptures showing Jews, Gentiles, Samaritans and individuals were obedient to these instructions.
Wrong, Paul did not mention baptism in eph 1 because it was not required. It was an immediate affect of placing ones faith in Christ (as was the baptism of the spirit. Which had to occurs first BEFORE the anointing.
baptism in water will not save you,
Your trying to replace the baptism of God with the baptism of men,

You are pretty much making the same mistake the jews made in trying to force people to be circumcized to be saved.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,247
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Totally Christ has shown your error and let me repeat Jesus says, I am the way the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father but by me. John 14:6. Wansvic are you going it in another way? If you do, that would be a false way. Other than Jesus is wrong way.
As I have stated many times, Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.

It was He who gave Peter instructions to give those who believed in Him. It was He who joined His disciples while they water baptized people. (He did not discourage anyone from administering it) It was He who told His disciples not to go forth in ministry until they were endued with power through the infilling of the Holy Ghost. It was He who gave the great commission:

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matt 28:19-20

So if you have a problem with people doing what they were told to do by Jesus you are going to have to take it up with Him.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,003
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I have yet to see CS1 confront these people personally. If he did, then I will appologize, because I am not so insecure in myself I can not admit I am wrong. As MST people here know.. All i have seen is him make a stement, then put red x’s on people who stand against these gospels.

As for you, we see you will not go to the guy and show him how he is wrong, and how he gives you a bad name, You would rather attack me (once again, Is laughable and people see it whether you think they do or not)

We see where your loyalties are. Your vendetta against me is laughable. So once again, I suggest you put me on ignore. All you do is make yourself look bad.
I did in post # 802, you even responded to it in post #810.

I have said and have always said those of Pentecostal or charismatics who ( and I have done so to them personally ) in fact some have a short term memory loss of post and different threads of the past of the same topic.

I have not only disagreed with Pentecostals & Charismatic members generally in a post and I have done so personally. And I will so add some who question yet again my integrity responded with their own Icon meme in support for what I said. here are a few


  1. hyper-grace
  2. tongues required for salvation
  3. baptism in the Holy Spirit
  4. Jesus name only for salvation
  5. errors, ignorance, unlearned false teachings, and spirit of antichrist

These are just a few where those with short term memory loss have not only responded to them but gave me green checks, Thumbs ups, and other memes. Not to mention under the old format I received from these very same people Citations up to 1000.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
As I have stated many times, Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.

It was He who gave Peter instructions to give those who believed in Him. It was He who joined His disciples while they water baptized people. (He did not discourage anyone from administering it) It was He who told His disciples not to go forth in ministry until they were endued with power through the infilling of the Holy Ghost. It was He who gave the great commission:

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matt 28:19-20

So if you have a problem with people doing what they were told to do by Jesus you are going to have to take it up with Him.

as you said yourself, this thread is about tongues

not baptizing by water

if you can state that to Angela, then perhaps take note also

things are bad enough with the tongues debate as is...this just throws gas on the flames

of course you don't have to acknowledge this...but it would be helpful IMO
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I am responding to this Post to provide to Admin. I have laid out # 802 the very answer. Yet it was not accepted. Admin, Please move forward Thank you per our discussion.

Thank you,

CS1,
Admin

Please read the post again.

I asked a question, I did not attack or accuse someone of doing somethign they did not do. And I even in a later post said if CS1 D

I personally am sick and tired of being falsly accused.

Here is my quote which was mysteriously left out.


I have yet to see CS1 confront these people personally. If he did, then I will appologize, because I am not so insecure in myself I can not admit I am wrong.....
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
forget it

just forget it

that's not a good sign for you

I asked for prayer and this is what you dish out?

I answered you nicely in spite of your rudeness and you could care less

what you do, is done only to yourself. the rest of us are not playing games here

you do as you will then
So me asking for both sides to be stop attacking, (even admitting my own guilt) but just talk about their beliefs, and show where they disagree is wrong?

You confuse me.

 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Paul does not specifically reference speaking in tongues in Ephesians but that does not change what he points out in another epistle. Paul makes it clear that those speaking in an unknown tongue are speaking to God. He also mentions praying and singing in the spirit as well as his regular language. All of these are ways the Holy Ghost edifies His children.
Actually yes it does

If paul left a part of th egospel out to the church at ephesians, then he probably sent a bunch of people to hell. Because

1. If he said before it must be done, but not later, they would question him, meaning they probably would have left

2. He never mentioned it before.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
hey ~ please read my post 1110

it seems we are sealed with the Holy Spirit when we believe, and the baptism in the Holy Spirit is separate

I believe it is recorded in Acts that way

do you see that?
I read your response and was replying to it. This is what you said, "don't confuse what is recorded in Acts. the disciples and other followers of Christ were ALREADY SAVED."

Yes, they were already saved because they had accepted Christ into their life according to Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

So, what was the additional blessing they received in Acts please?

And a second question is, What is the separate baptism in the Holy Spirit that you speak of? You seem to be speaking of two baptisms.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
The Bible says they were already saved and then LATER the Holy Spirit came upon them.
At pentecost. Yes. Because as Jesus said, The HS had not yet been given to anyone.

From that point forward though, the HS was given to everyone.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
As I have stated many times, Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.

It was He who gave Peter instructions to give those who believed in Him. It was He who joined His disciples while they water baptized people. (He did not discourage anyone from administering it) It was He who told His disciples not to go forth in ministry until they were endued with power through the infilling of the Holy Ghost. It was He who gave the great commission:

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matt 28:19-20

So if you have a problem with people doing what they were told to do by Jesus you are going to have to take it up with Him.
Yes he is

Not some sinner baptizing you in water. That would make the person who is physically baptising you in water part of the way.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
I read your response and was replying to it. This is what you said, "don't confuse what is recorded in Acts. the disciples and other followers of Christ were ALREADY SAVED."

Yes, they were already saved because they had accepted Christ into their life according to Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

So, what was the additional blessing they received in Acts please?

And a second question is, What is the separate baptism in the Holy Spirit that you speak of? You seem to be speaking of two baptisms.
well we agree they were already saved

we are sealed with the Holy Spirit and then baptism IN the Holy Spirit is after...for those who go on with God anyway

I am not speaking of 2 baptisms...unless you include water there, but that is physical and not a part of salvation and that has been discussed until the rubber on the tires is gone

if you believe that a person is baptized in the Holy Spirit at conversion, where do you see that in the Bible?

at this point, I am not quite sure what it is you are saying other than I read that you responded to someone they only had God and Jesus but no Holy Spirit

your post 1101

You have the second person of the Trinity, but not the Third Person.
is where I understood you to say no Holy Spirit
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,247
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Well since paul said the HS gave SOME the gift of tongues There are some deep issues

Not everyone will speak in tongues, since you MUST have the gift for this to occur, so what is the end result. Are the ones who do not not saved? As waggles would claim?
Paul was referring to the spiritual gift of tongues. "Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way." 1 Cor 12:30-31

Paul's comment has nothing to do with speaking in tongues that are produced when one is filled with the Holy Ghost.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Paul was referring to the spiritual gift of tongues. "Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way." 1 Cor 12:30-31

Paul's comment has nothing to do with speaking in tongues that are produced when one is filled with the Holy Ghost.
If you do not have the spiritual gifts of tongues,

You can not speak in tongues, Because it would not be from God. It would be from some other source.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
yes

but you wrote to someone they only had God and Jesus and no Holy Spirit

that's what I understood anyway...but with the air around here, did I read you wrong?

again, sealed and then baptized 'in'
When Jesus ascended into heaven he said he would send the Comforter. The Comforter is the Holy Spirit the apostles were filled with. This is the third person of the Trinity. We receive Christ into our life when we accept Him as our Lord and Saviour but the Comforter has more blessings to bestow upon us.

The gifts of the Holy Spirit for those who seek them, are an additional empowerment for those who seek to be further used by God in the furtherance of His work, to His glory.