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I can put you straight ,intricately so.
With precision.
But rule one. Get honest.
Now, who are the virgins,in mat 25,that i need schooling on ?
I will wait.
(Stop with the overgeneralized deflecting)
It is getting juvenile.
We all know you can not defend your position.
Which of course,is why you adapt that "safe" strategy of closing your bible and pointing out the air in the sky is actually this,but not that.
You have no verses for cessation. Not a one.
Now open your bible,read mat 25 and lets go toe to toe.
With precision.
But rule one. Get honest.
Now, who are the virgins,in mat 25,that i need schooling on ?
I will wait.
(Stop with the overgeneralized deflecting)
It is getting juvenile.
We all know you can not defend your position.
Which of course,is why you adapt that "safe" strategy of closing your bible and pointing out the air in the sky is actually this,but not that.
You have no verses for cessation. Not a one.
Now open your bible,read mat 25 and lets go toe to toe.
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For the mutual edification of who Christ alone?
I would think tongues would first have to be defined by looking to the foundation of the doctrine.
Its like David said in the Psalms. if they destroy the foundations of the doctrines how we ever come to the truth of the gospel?
This is so that we can try and understand why the sign is a sign of God mocking someone for something and the Holy Spirit uses falling backward to help us find those who yet after all the warning they still refuse to compare the word of God to the word of God .
They find no life in searching the scriptures to them its blah, blah, blah (precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little. They in effect say: We refuse to compare the word of God to the word we will rather do whatsoever our own mouths say as oral traditions of men and to show we see no evil in making the foundation of the word to no effect. We will fall backward mocking the word of God to show those who refuse to believe all the manner of prophecy as the word of God.
What are tongues other than simply another manner of prophecy?
Isaiah 28:11-13 King James Version (KJV) For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
1 Corinthians 14:20-22 King James Version (KJV) Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Don't be shy and fall backward but rather believe the word. What does the sign of tongue confirm? Not what are tongues we already know its prophecy no wonderment. If it feel good do it.. Once a person establishes the foundation and the sign then the rest of the doctrine falls into place
I would think tongues would first have to be defined by looking to the foundation of the doctrine.
Its like David said in the Psalms. if they destroy the foundations of the doctrines how we ever come to the truth of the gospel?
This is so that we can try and understand why the sign is a sign of God mocking someone for something and the Holy Spirit uses falling backward to help us find those who yet after all the warning they still refuse to compare the word of God to the word of God .
They find no life in searching the scriptures to them its blah, blah, blah (precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little. They in effect say: We refuse to compare the word of God to the word we will rather do whatsoever our own mouths say as oral traditions of men and to show we see no evil in making the foundation of the word to no effect. We will fall backward mocking the word of God to show those who refuse to believe all the manner of prophecy as the word of God.
What are tongues other than simply another manner of prophecy?
Isaiah 28:11-13 King James Version (KJV) For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
1 Corinthians 14:20-22 King James Version (KJV) Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Don't be shy and fall backward but rather believe the word. What does the sign of tongue confirm? Not what are tongues we already know its prophecy no wonderment. If it feel good do it.. Once a person establishes the foundation and the sign then the rest of the doctrine falls into place
The clue is look to the foundation of the doctrine in ( Isaiah 28) Its law having to do with God mocking those who mock him is expanded in 1 Corinthians 14.
Other wise you have unknowns that you can compare to unknowns and can cause confusion that some turn into some sort of mystical wonderments and fall backward. . God does not just make a noise and say... search out the meaning. Good luck finding someone to give a private interpretation. Hope they give you a good self edifying one.
Other wise you have unknowns that you can compare to unknowns and can cause confusion that some turn into some sort of mystical wonderments and fall backward. . God does not just make a noise and say... search out the meaning. Good luck finding someone to give a private interpretation. Hope they give you a good self edifying one.
Since you admit you have nothing to go on,the salvation threads have the never ending "gee is it works or grace?" reasoning that never quite gets figured out subject matter that you may find better company.
Tongues is 100% bible.
You have no case there.
If you don't think men fall in Gods presence ,do a study.
You have no case. None at all
Tongues is 100% bible.
You have no case there.
If you don't think men fall in Gods presence ,do a study.
You have no case. None at all
Really?
Israel is the whore.
The wayward wife.
In fact Jesus said " i would have gathered you as a hen gathers her chicks,but you would not"
Pilot "what should i do with Jesus?"
Jews "crucify him"
Jews "his blood be on us,and our children"
To this day,the Jews hate him,reject him,and hold to their ancestor's curse.
Read Ruth
The bride is Gentile.
Try again.
The 10 virgins,who are they?
I will wait
Israel is the whore.
The wayward wife.
In fact Jesus said " i would have gathered you as a hen gathers her chicks,but you would not"
Pilot "what should i do with Jesus?"
Jews "crucify him"
Jews "his blood be on us,and our children"
To this day,the Jews hate him,reject him,and hold to their ancestor's curse.
Read Ruth
The bride is Gentile.
Try again.
The 10 virgins,who are they?
I will wait
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You missed the point. The ten virgins represent Israel. Jesus came to His own who is Israel. The Gentiles received the blessing that Israel refused.
The five virgins who were ready when the bridegroom appeared were representing Israel who heard and received Christ as Messiah.
Jesus was speaking to those who should have recognized Him and telling them that He would shut the door and they would not enter the kingdom because of their unbelief in Him.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The five virgins who were ready when the bridegroom appeared were representing Israel who heard and received Christ as Messiah.
Jesus was speaking to those who should have recognized Him and telling them that He would shut the door and they would not enter the kingdom because of their unbelief in Him.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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I think you would also like to talk about Hebrews 6, here is my view:
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
Heb 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
Heb 6:10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 6:12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
Base on the context, a real believer could not do the falling away. Hebrews 6 speaks rather of impossibility than possibility. There’s no way a real born again (saved by the grace of God) will again be born again. There is no such thing as born again and again and again. The relationship has been firmly grounded in Christ. What the believer received from Christ then no one is able to pluck them out of his Father’s hand especially when it has been sealed by the Holy Spirit. The real believers are saved, secured and sure serving Christ. Context in Hebrews speaks of receiving blessing from God and things that accompany salvation (v.7), this is referred to the good works or labor of love shown toward the brethren but this ministry may be lose and be rejected but then again it does not say about the losing of salvation. It is rather a of a losing of rewards to those who fall back into this ministry and be held accountable during the Judgement Seat of Christ (JSOC) where our works good or bad will be tested by fire. So, it is the desire of the writer of the Hebrews, if not Apostle Paul to shew the full assurance of hope until by patience receives the blessings. (vv. 10-12).
2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Now in regards to the situation, I know that it is not a guarantee to say because one is a preacher, minister, pastor would deny the faith even to the point of denying God’s existence and I believe there are several factors or reasons why they deny the faith. Probably are the following.
Jer_17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
Heb 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
Heb 6:10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 6:12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
Base on the context, a real believer could not do the falling away. Hebrews 6 speaks rather of impossibility than possibility. There’s no way a real born again (saved by the grace of God) will again be born again. There is no such thing as born again and again and again. The relationship has been firmly grounded in Christ. What the believer received from Christ then no one is able to pluck them out of his Father’s hand especially when it has been sealed by the Holy Spirit. The real believers are saved, secured and sure serving Christ. Context in Hebrews speaks of receiving blessing from God and things that accompany salvation (v.7), this is referred to the good works or labor of love shown toward the brethren but this ministry may be lose and be rejected but then again it does not say about the losing of salvation. It is rather a of a losing of rewards to those who fall back into this ministry and be held accountable during the Judgement Seat of Christ (JSOC) where our works good or bad will be tested by fire. So, it is the desire of the writer of the Hebrews, if not Apostle Paul to shew the full assurance of hope until by patience receives the blessings. (vv. 10-12).
2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Now in regards to the situation, I know that it is not a guarantee to say because one is a preacher, minister, pastor would deny the faith even to the point of denying God’s existence and I believe there are several factors or reasons why they deny the faith. Probably are the following.
- He or she in the first place is not saved.
- He or she is a weak in faith and devoured by the enemy.
- Embraces wrong teaching by listening to or reading from their books.
- Hiding sin to justify wrong and continuous prohibited actions. (Vices, immorality etc,)
- Simply became puffed up of gained knowledge etc.
Jer_17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
When you have a church meeting - when the church comes together - we are instructed on how to conduct ourselves
in respect to operating the three voice gifts of the Holy Spirit - decently and in order ...
5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.
6 Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge
or prophecy or teaching?
1Corinthians 14: (ESV)
22 Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers.
23 If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds?
24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all,
25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.
1Corinthians 14: (ESV)
29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said.
30 If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent.
31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged,
32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets.
1Corinthians 14: (ESV)
37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command
of the Lord.
38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.
39 So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
40 But all things should be done decently and in order.
1Corinthians 14: (ESV)
in respect to operating the three voice gifts of the Holy Spirit - decently and in order ...
5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.
6 Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge
or prophecy or teaching?
1Corinthians 14: (ESV)
22 Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers.
23 If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds?
24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all,
25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.
1Corinthians 14: (ESV)
29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said.
30 If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent.
31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged,
32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets.
1Corinthians 14: (ESV)
37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command
of the Lord.
38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.
39 So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
40 But all things should be done decently and in order.
1Corinthians 14: (ESV)
If you look at the criteria in Heb 6, you might see, they were truly born again children of God.
As for the former Baptist minister, I don't know, but it is possible for a child of God to be cut off from Christ, and I believe, grafted in again.
For example:
Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
If we are in and part of the body of Christ, and He tells us to cut off that which offends us, would He be a hypocrite and do any less with those who offend Him.
Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them [again] be, but life from the dead?
Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee {oh child of God].
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in [again]: for God is able to graff them in again.
Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
Luk 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
As for the former Baptist minister, I don't know, but it is possible for a child of God to be cut off from Christ, and I believe, grafted in again.
For example:
Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
If we are in and part of the body of Christ, and He tells us to cut off that which offends us, would He be a hypocrite and do any less with those who offend Him.
Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them [again] be, but life from the dead?
Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee {oh child of God].
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in [again]: for God is able to graff them in again.
Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
Luk 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
Hi Dino.
I would offer it most certainly is.
To prophesy is to declare the living word of God ( Prophecy). It's not to declaring the will of men as the witness of man .That would be other books like the book of Mormon, the Catholics CCC book as a law of their fathers , creeds etc .Those books are compared to His one book.
The prophecy that the daughters spoke is not recorded. Just like the prophecy of Enoch. Not every word as prophecy that comes from the lips of the Holy Spirit is written down . It does not mean there is a open slate, blank check make a noise and make a claim to some fame that some call self edifying?
Peter in jealousy got his eyes off Jesus like the Pentecostals and just started his own oral tradition as a lying wonder that John would remain alive in his flesh .
If ever time God brought a word of prophecy to a individual and it was written down. We would need a bigger world to hold all the books that could be written One book is enough for me . Why go above that which is written? What's the living hope in doing so ?
Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen John 21:21-25
I would offer it most certainly is.
To prophesy is to declare the living word of God ( Prophecy). It's not to declaring the will of men as the witness of man .That would be other books like the book of Mormon, the Catholics CCC book as a law of their fathers , creeds etc .Those books are compared to His one book.
The prophecy that the daughters spoke is not recorded. Just like the prophecy of Enoch. Not every word as prophecy that comes from the lips of the Holy Spirit is written down . It does not mean there is a open slate, blank check make a noise and make a claim to some fame that some call self edifying?
Peter in jealousy got his eyes off Jesus like the Pentecostals and just started his own oral tradition as a lying wonder that John would remain alive in his flesh .
If ever time God brought a word of prophecy to a individual and it was written down. We would need a bigger world to hold all the books that could be written One book is enough for me . Why go above that which is written? What's the living hope in doing so ?
Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen John 21:21-25
Please get your facts straight. Water baptism is not required for receiving the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is received by grace. Repentance is the result of the Holy Spirit entering into the heart of the sinner when they are converted.
Works based meritorious salvation is not taught in the scriptures.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Works based meritorious salvation is not taught in the scriptures.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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