born gay

[PS]

That would be like saying someone is born a serial killer or a child molester. or born something else.

Sexual sin is sexual sin. I would not say someone is born gay. It is just an excuse I think.. like saying a mass murderer has killed because he had a bad childhood.. God holds us accountable for sin, he gives us no excuse. but we in our society want to excuse it and try to blame it on God (I was born this way) and not take accountability for our own actions.

Just my belief

They do say that kleptomaniacs and fire raisers are born that way.

What do people think?

 

[Bowman]

Why is not being able to choose your sexual preference a cop out? A cop out to what?

Claiming that you have 'no choice' is the easy route to escaping responsibility for your actions.

Also does your conversations with a minoritive group of gays, allow you to presuppose all gays feel this way or use this frame of argument?

It has not failed to hold true, yet...

Also if there difficulties are based on genetics, I hardly think you are saying they had a choice in their own genetic structure?

I had the opportunity to talk at length with a gay friend that was married for many years by his very own CHOICE, upon which it was also his CHOICE to father a child...and only recently was it once again his CHOICE to divorce his wife to be with another man.

You were saying...?

Have you not just undermined your own dismissal?

No...but you most assuredly have...

 

[danschance]

Yet miscarriages are allowed?

And if you're going to quote Bible verses don't forget this one:

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood[shall be] upon them.

I can disagree with most of the 10 points you have posted above. For instance, I can fully condem homosexuality and not obey somethings of Leviticus because we are under a new covenant. Also in the New Testament, homosexuality is also called a sin.

Homosexuality is sin and this is clear in the bible. The more interesting part of this post is whose sin are we talking about. the individual or his/her parents?

Now I have never run my mouth at homosexuals. It is not my job to condemn their sin. I try my best to show them the truth. Their sins can be forgiven and God loves them all dearly. I had a gay man come into a Christian chat room asking what I would do if he asked me out. What I would do if my son were gay. What I would do if I saw gay men have sex and many other questions. I made it very clear to him that nothing he could do would make me hate him. He ended up in tears. He had longed for his father to accept him and now I as a father figure, I clearly accepted him.

We as Christians are not called to point out sin and condemnation. We are here to lead others to Christ.

 

[terminator]

Does the "new covenant" mean the OT doesn't count?

Also, is the God who said homosexuals shall be put to death the same God of the new covenant?

 

[Scribe]

They have been trying very hard but so far the human genome project has been unsucsessful at identifying any gay genes for any homosexual man or woman. Books can be found everywhere which were written before modern dna research stating the theory as fact that gay was genetic. They are suing pastors for counseling gays straight because they BELIEVE gay is genetic yet science says its not. Most gays grow up straight then through different trauma or without trauma they DECIDE that they were born gay. Usually after or close to puberty.

 

[Scribe]

I know it sounds kinder to homosexuals to tell them homosexual sin is no worse than heterosexual fornication but according to many scriptures there does seem to be something even more harmful occurring for the homosexual sinner. As if the arrogance against God creates more death in the offender.

 

[DannyC]

Claiming that you have 'no choice' is the easy route to escaping responsibility for your actions.





It has not failed to hold true, yet...





I had the opportunity to talk at length with a gay friend that was married for many years by his very own CHOICE, upon which it was also his CHOICE to father a child...and only recently was it once again his CHOICE to divorce his wife to be with another man.

You were saying...?




No...but you most assuredly have...

Well for one you have not answered my questions regarding genetics and your minoritive scope. Now 'no choice in your actions'. Lets us look at this in detail are you attempting to say they argue they can't control their actions like a secret agent is making them do it, or rather are they saying they were born gay and couldn't control that, those two are completely different yet you have not made the step towards either proposal.

Now considering I never made any statements or dismissals rather I posed questions to you without taking a side definitively, I do not see where I have 'undermined my own dismissal'. I never made a statement and then dismissed it unreasonably, actually I never made a proposal in the slightest, I think you were just attempting a play on words, yet you don't have any idea what you just wrote.

 

[crossnote]

Again, there are plenty of things mentioned other than homosexuality which we just ignore. Why is this getting so much attention? Is this really more critical an issue than starvation and disease? If as much energy was going towards solving world hunger as it is going towards fighting homosexuals, think of all we could accomplish!

It happens to be a current battle. Do you want Christians to roll over and play dead?

 

[Drett]

Homosexuality is a result genetic makeup and their environment.

A study of identical twins where at least one was homosexual found that in the case of homosexuality in twins, 52% were on both. If it was something a person was born with then you would expect 100% or very close to it.Science and Homosexuality

 

[Bowman]

Well for one you have not answered my questions regarding genetics and your minoritive scope.

Your refusal to accept a response does not mean that it was not made.

Now 'no choice in your actions'. Lets us look at this in detail are you attempting to say they argue they can't control their actions like a secret agent is making them do it, or rather are they saying they were born gay and couldn't control that, those two are completely different yet you have not made the step towards either proposal.

That would be your assertion.

Now considering I never made any statements or dismissals rather I posed questions to you without taking a side definitively, I do not see where I have 'undermined my own dismissal'. I never made a statement and then dismissed it unreasonably, actually I never made a proposal in the slightest, I think you were just attempting a play on words, yet you don't have any idea what you just wrote.

Dismissed...

 

[danschance]

Homosexuality is a result genetic makeup and their environment.

A study of identical twins where at least one was homosexual found that in the case of homosexuality in twins, 52% were on both. If it was something a person was born with then you would expect 100% or very close to it.Science and Homosexuality

So you trust in science over the bible? Is that what you are saying here?

 

[HoldingOn2013]

Ok so I'm not saying people are born gay at all. But as soon as we are born Satan starts his war against us. We all have demons chasing us (not to scare anyone here). Picture your sin and then picture a demon whispering for you to act on that impulse, what ever it may be. But God is mighty and there is nothing that stands in his way. Unfortunately we will not be without sin until we get to heaven. In the mean time, we must push thru to follow God's commandments and be a light in this world even if we fail constantly.

 

[MaggieMye]

CAREY:
"So if 95% of homosexuals have mommy issues, what about children that say they were born in the wrong body, I actually blame the parents for that, because a child is innocent of sexual immorality, they cannot be accountable for what they don't know, but what of the kid's that come from good homes, living with parents that raise them in the ways of our Lord? There is is still the issue of generational curses. And when there is one demon influencing a person, they like to invite their 'friends'. Most people either do not KNOW of generational curses or if they have heard of them, they do not understand that Ex 20:5 is a spiritual law and iniquity must be dealt with. Becoming born again erases all sin committed by a person prior to, but generational issues must be APPROPRIATED under the Cross. The church has not taught these truths in centuries, but they are beginning to once again. I'm not trying to play devil's advocate, I just want a better understanding so I can rightly minister to those that claim God made a mistakwe. IF God were to make a mistake, He would not be God because God is Perfect and mistakes are not. we can't just say I'm right and your wrong, that kind of ministering won't win them to Christ. Correct. It won't. But love and acceptance of them as a person will. You do not need to approve of their actions, but simply love them into the Kingdom, asking God for opportunity to show them truth in scripture and then lead them into deliverance. So...you need to have some education about deliverance because there is a right way and a completely wrong and dangerous way to do it.
Maggie

 

[crossnote]

Does the "new covenant" mean the OT doesn't count?

Also, is the God who said homosexuals shall be put to death the same God of the new covenant?

I don't want to derail this thread so I'll give you just one response.

A new Priesthood is now enacted not after carnal ordinances but after ONE with never ending life.

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
(Heb 7:12)

Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
(Heb 7:16)

Same God, different dispensation of Priesthood.

 

[Batman007]

It happens to be a current battle. Do you want Christians to roll over and play dead?

Do you think it's a bigger battle than disease, starvation, poverty?

What about shellfish? I know a ton of people who eat shellfish. In fact, it's more prevalent than homosexuals!

Leviticus 11:10: "But whatever is in the seas and in the rivers that does not have fins and scales among all the teeming life of the water, and among all the living creatures that are in the water, they are detestable things to you."

How about bowl haircuts?

Leviticus 19:27: "You shall not round off the side-growth of your heads nor harm the edges of your beard". I see that an awful lot, too.

Eat bacon lately? Play football?

Leviticus 11:8: "You shall not eat of [pigs] flesh nor touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you."

Should I keep going?

The point I'm making with these is gay people marrying DOESN'T AFFECT YOU. If you argue that it's the fact that it's sin, what about all the other sins mentioned? Homosexuality isn't in the commandments. Jesus never mentioned it. I understand you're against it and by all means preach that to your kids! But there are WAY more important, pressing things that should be dealt with that ACTUALLY do harm.

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

Sexual sin is a pet peeve with God, so to speak. He utterly destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for this very reason. He himself went to this area to see for himself ( that is to say that He didn't already know, but went personally to see the acts of the people. Because He is just and that there could be no accusation against Him). If we do a history lesson, we also kn that Pompeii was destroyed for the same reason. In Pompeii there was anything you wanted boy's, girls, sheep etc.... There were brothels on every corner with little girls or little boy's you name it and it was taxed. Meaning that it was condoned and accepted. Kind a like what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Kinda like what how New Orleans was sin city.

Being born gay is erroneous. There is an age of innocents. There comes a time that we know good from evil ( the tree that Adam ate from). Because of that we are driven to sin, whatever that sin may be. For some it drugs, others alcohol, horemongers, the list goes on. It is our nature to sin. The power of sin can only be broken at the cross and if our faith deviates from the cross then that sin nature is revived.

 

[my_adonai_]

Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

 

[my_adonai_]

Do you think it's a bigger battle than disease, starvation, poverty?

What about shellfish? I know a ton of people who eat shellfish. In fact, it's more prevalent than homosexuals!

Leviticus 11:10: "But whatever is in the seas and in the rivers that does not have fins and scales among all the teeming life of the water, and among all the living creatures that are in the water, they are detestable things to you."

How about bowl haircuts?

Leviticus 19:27: "You shall not round off the side-growth of your heads nor harm the edges of your beard". I see that an awful lot, too.

Eat bacon lately? Play football?

Leviticus 11:8: "You shall not eat of [pigs] flesh nor touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you."

Should I keep going?

The point I'm making with these is gay people marrying DOESN'T AFFECT YOU. If you argue that it's the fact that it's sin, what about all the other sins mentioned? Homosexuality isn't in the commandments. Jesus never mentioned it. I understand you're against it and by all means preach that to your kids! But there are WAY more important, pressing things that should be dealt with that ACTUALLY do harm.

Jas_4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

everything is important, remembering one sin can condemn a person, but yet again there should be self control in addressing the matter.
and always really, OUR FOCUS IS CHRIST, knowing that sin comes so it may try to destroy our relationship with GOD

 

[my_adonai_]

so when someone claims to be born gay its impossible because God doesn't make mistaks yet when children are born with mental handicaps or physical ones then the explanation is what?

Joh 9:1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
Joh 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
Joh 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
Joh 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

GOD can make changes, we just gotta do the works of GOD. so really questioning what is what does not really help, What helps is that GOD can make changes, GOD can perform miracles.

 

[my_adonai_]

What bothers me is the fact that being gay is lumped in with "gluttons [...], or alcoholics, or murderers, or adulterers". How is being gay anything like those things? Gluttony is harming your body by eating too much. Murderers hurt others. Adulterers (I mean those who cheat) hurt those close to them. Being gay just means they'd rather marry or be with the same sex as opposed to the other sex. What's harmful about that? Nothing! Nothing at all!

The way GOD created this world, and mankind and ordained that man should be with woman and vice versa shows that a break of that order has an effect, whether it be physically, mentally or eternally. Light is light, darkness is darkness. and you might think that maybe oh being gay is reasonably OKAY, because of this and that, but such acts show obedience to the devil and he comes but to destroy, kill and steal. so there severing of ones relationship with GOD, and much more.

if you believe in the devil, that he exists, then you must know he will take any chance given to him to destroy your present and future, and such things as homosexuality are part of it

BASICALLY LIGHT IS LIGHT and DARKNESS IS DARKNESS. Whether the effects are physically seen OR NOT. some problems actually are Habitual as for example, constant rage, pride, unsatiable desires, lacking that self control, and character flaws can hurt people around you