By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't understand what you mean by a ' type of belief ' . Believing is simply believing. We are commanded to believe with the faculties we have . If you mean believing in vain , then that's different. The access to grace is through Faith . Its an instantaneous believing not an ongoing process . We are saved the instant we believe

Let’s try this

A man ties a rope from the American side to the Canadian side of the Niagara Falls. He then takes a wheelbarrow. Puts 200 lbs of rock (about the same weight of a grown man) in it. And walks the right rope from one side to the other with no incident.

The crowd stands amazed. After the third time the guy looks to the crowd of people and asks if anyone BELIEVED he could do the same with a human being in it. Everyone raised their hands because they all believed

When he asked for Volunteers, no one raised their hands.

Hey believed he could Do it

But non of them Had living faith he Could do it

There is a huge difference between human belief. And living faith. That is what James is trying to show

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't follow , what do you mean ?

He wants you to say those who have present tense faith

When I reality. We are those who have been saved by grace

 

[throughfaith]

So you agree with James. A dead faith (lifeless) never saved anyone?

Its not a hill to die on . But my take on how we are saved is that we are not given the gift of faith as if its supernatural type in order to believe . We simply believe the Gospel by faith . We trust that Jesus has died for our sins , was buried and rose again according to the scriptures. So to say can a ' lifeless faith ' save someone implies we are saved by a faith thats alive . Could you explain what you mean by we have to be saved by a faith that's alive ? How did it die?

 

[throughfaith]

Let’s try this

A man ties a rope from the American side to the Canadian side of the Niagara Falls. He then takes a wheelbarrow. Puts 200 lbs of rock (about the same weight of a grown man) in it. And walks the right rope from one side to the other with no incident.

The crowd stands amazed. After the third time the guy looks to the crowd of people and asks if anyone BELIEVED he could do the same with a human being in it. Everyone raised their hands because they all believed

When he asked for Volunteers, no one raised their hands.

Hey believed he could Do it

But non of them Had living faith he Could do it

There is a huge difference between human belief. And living faith. That is what James is trying to show

Isnt that simply trust ? which is the meaning of believing on Jesus for salvation .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Its not a hill to die on . But my take on how we are saved is that we are not given the gift of faith as if its supernatural type in order to believe . We simply believe the Gospel by faith . We trust that Jesus has died for our sins , was buried and rose again according to the scriptures. So to say can a ' lifeless faith ' save someone implies we are saved by a faith thats alive . Could you explain what you mean by we have to be saved by a faith that's alive ? How did it die?

That’s fine but I am talking about James

Can a dead faith save you? Can a person who believes a person names Jesus came and died yet has never repented and came to true living faith be saved?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Isnt that simply trust ? which is the meaning of believing on Jesus for salvation .

Trust yes

Not everyone who believes in Jesus trusts. That’s what James point was

He was arguing against a world
View that I can believe in Jesus and never repent or change my life and live however I want and think I am saved.

 

[throughfaith]

That’s fine but I am talking about James

Can a dead faith save you? Can a person who believes a person names Jesus came and died yet has never repented and came to true living faith be saved?[/QUOTE
well if a person says I'm cold and Hungary and they reply " be warm " , be fed " what use is that ?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Yes we see this in the epistles that we should preach to all . And it depends on what verse you mean. Do we follow everything Jesus said to the disciples? of course not .
5¶These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
9Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
Mat 10.6

We are to preach to those that can discern spiritual things, who have been born again, but are still babes in Christ, surviving upon the milk of the word. We are to teach them about the righteousness of God, so they won't go about trying to establish their own righteousness, by their good works, instead of submitting themselves unto the righteousness of God.

It would do no good to preach to the natural man, before he has been born again, because he cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks they are foolishness, 1 Cor 2:14.

We can help deliver babes in Christ from their lack of knowledge, but we cannot be instrumental in delivering anyone eternally, that is by God's sovereign grace, without any help from man.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

response

Their religion is useless I agree. We should help them not just say be warm etc especially if god gave us the ability

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I don't understand what you mean by a ' type of belief ' . Believing is simply believing. We are commanded to believe with the faculties we have . If you mean believing in vain , then that's different. The access to grace is through Faith . Its an instantaneous believing not an ongoing process . We are saved the instant we believe

We are quickened while we are still spiritually dead, and cannot believe in spiritual things, until after we have been quickened, Eph 2.

Mankind plays no part in his spiritual birth, otherwise, grace would be no more grace. Rom 11:6.

 

[throughfaith]

We are to preach to those that can discern spiritual things, who have been born again, but are still babes in Christ, surviving upon the milk of the word. We are to teach them about the righteousness of God, so they won't go about trying to establish their own righteousness, by their good works, instead of submitting themselves unto the righteousness of God.

It would do no good to preach to the natural man, before he has been born again, because he cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks they are foolishness, 1 Cor 2:14.

We can help deliver babes in Christ from their lack of knowledge, but we cannot be instrumental in delivering anyone eternally, that is by God's sovereign grace, without any help from man.

Where in 1 cor 2.14 does it say a person cannot believe the Gosepl ? it makes the contrast between mature believers and those that are unable to recieve the things of God because they are behaving carnally . Babes in Christ .
Depending on your bible version . The ' spiritual 'is not a person that has the Holy Spirit ,but its a mature believer who understands the things of the spirit ( the wisdom spoken among the mature 1 cor 2.6 )

 

[throughfaith]

We are quickened while we are still spiritually dead, and cannot believe in spiritual things, until after we have been quickened, Eph 2.

Mankind plays no part in his spiritual birth, otherwise, grace would be no more grace. Rom 11:6.

What if it pleased ! God to save those that believe? How is this a problem if God sovereignly chooses to do this ?
1 cor 1 .21 21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

 

[throughfaith]

Their religion is useless I agree. We should help them not just say be warm etc especially if god gave us the ability

Religion is useless for sure .

 

[throughfaith]

We are to preach to those that can discern spiritual things, who have been born again, but are still babes in Christ, surviving upon the milk of the word. We are to teach them about the righteousness of God, so they won't go about trying to establish their own righteousness, by their good works, instead of submitting themselves unto the righteousness of God.

It would do no good to preach to the natural man, before he has been born again, because he cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks they are foolishness, 1 Cor 2:14.

We can help deliver babes in Christ from their lack of knowledge, but we cannot be instrumental in delivering anyone eternally, that is by God's sovereign grace, without any help from man.

Do you not preach the Gospel to people after all you cannot know who the ' elect ' are ( according to Calvinism )

 

[Lion222]

So is taking up your cross and following Christ a work?
Because without it you can not be His disciple.

The confusion is that sin has associated with it Judgment.
This the cross of Christ dealt with
It also has death, this the Spirit of God in Christ united to Us dealt with.
Those are the consequences of sin.

But the sin it self, is the iniquity in our hearts our evil desires.
Who denies that sin itself is not still active after those above to works of salvation?
Now the working out of your salvation, of what you have been given so as not to waste it what was given to you.
It has a direct connection to you personal assurance that you feel in you own heart
It is the purpose of the Gospel, the ceasing of your sin in your life
It is the beginning of a life lived for Gods Glory.

As the scriptures say, Lay hold of that for which you where laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
He has given us all things necessary for Godliness and our grabbing on to all of it is our laying hold of, making full use of the Salvation Christ laid hold of us for.

We have a part to play, to deny that part as if it is works trying to do the first two parts on our own is redunkuless.

 

[throughfaith]

We are quickened while we are still spiritually dead, and cannot believe in spiritual things, until after we have been quickened, Eph 2.

Mankind plays no part in his spiritual birth, otherwise, grace would be no more grace. Rom 11:6.

Eph 2.5
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
when were we quickened ? After all we are told the order in the previous chapter . Eph 1 13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

 

[throughfaith]

So is taking up your cross and following Christ a work?
Because without it you can not be His disciple.

The confusion is that sin has associated with it Judgment.
This the cross of Christ dealt with
It also has death, this the Spirit of God in Christ united to Us dealt with.
Those are the consequences of sin.

But the sin it self, is the iniquity in our hearts our evil desires.
Who denies that sin itself is not still active after those above to works of salvation?
Now the working out of your salvation, of what you have been given so as not to waste it what was given to you.
It has a direct connection to you personal assurance that you feel in you own heart
It is the purpose of the Gospel, the ceasing of your sin in your life
It is the beginning of a life lived for Gods Glory.

As the scriptures say, Lay hold of that for which you where laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
He has given us all things necessary for Godliness and our grabbing on to all of it is our laying hold of, making full use of the Salvation Christ laid hold of us for.

We have a part to play, to deny that part as if it is works trying to do the first two parts on our own is redunkuless.

is there a verse after Jesus goes to the cross where believers are told to pick up their cross ? I think people picking up crosses is not needed after the atonement . Jesus was physically going to the cross .
what part do we have to play . please could you list all the things we need to do ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We are quickened while we are still spiritually dead, and cannot believe in spiritual things, until after we have been quickened, Eph 2.

Mankind plays no part in his spiritual birth, otherwise, grace would be no more grace. Rom 11:6.

That’s impossible we can not be made alive while the penalty of sin is still active. We must be justified first

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Where in 1 cor 2.14 does it say a person cannot believe the Gosepl ? it makes the contrast between mature believers and those that are unable to recieve the things of God because they are behaving carnally . Babes in Christ .
Depending on your bible version . The ' spiritual 'is not a person that has the Holy Spirit ,but its a mature believer who understands the things of the spirit ( the wisdom spoken among the mature 1 cor 2.6 )

Interesting that I have to teach 1 cor 2 in church tonight.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

is there a verse after Jesus goes to the cross where believers are told to pick up their cross ? I think people picking up crosses is not needed after the atonement . Jesus was physically going to the cross .
what part do we have to play . please could you list all the things we need to do ?

I wonder if it means pick up our criss and follow him to his cross where we are united with him in salvation by faith. And then given the rest he promised