Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

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Grandpa

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#2,781
Jun 24, 2011
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EleventhHour said:
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
Matthew 23:37

40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
John 5:40

So God failed here?

Calvinism has the wrong view of God.
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Well you tell me.

God REALLY, REALLY wanted to do something but He wasn't able??? The will of the people of Jerusalem overpowered Gods Will???


That's not the view of Calvinism. The view of Calvinism is that God is Sovereign and God ALWAYS performs His Will.
 
Duskey

Duskey

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#2,782
Grandpa said:
The view of Calvinism is that God is Sovereign and God ALWAYS performs His Will.
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So people being condemned to eternal damnation through no fault of their own is God’s plan? You serve THAT god? 🤔
 
G

Grandpa

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eternally-gratefull said:
This is the issue I have with your thinking bro

how can I over rule Gods will?
I can reject it, but I can not over rule it, I do not know really where this thinking comes from

if it is gods will that al who see and believe are saved, then those who see and do not believe do not overrule gods will, they just did not believe in gods will, and in turn will suffer the consequences.
many are called but few are chosen because like in John 6. Jesus called many disciples, but many did not believe, so only a few were chosen.
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If it is Gods Will that EVERYONE be saved but some are not saved because they chose to not be saved then they have over-ridden the Will of God, according to free-will thinking.

If God has saved everyone who He has willed to be saved then God is Sovereign.


I really don't understand how a person can read the bible, be saved by God and still think they are the ones who cause God to act instead of the other way around.
 
1ofthem

1ofthem

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Mar 30, 2016
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Grandpa said:
Well you tell me.

God REALLY, REALLY wanted to do something but He wasn't able??? The will of the people of Jerusalem overpowered Gods Will???


That's not the view of Calvinism. The view of Calvinism is that God is Sovereign and God ALWAYS performs His Will.
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Yeah, God really, really wanted to do something....and guess, what he's already did it....He sent his Son to die on a cross that whosoever believes in him shall be saved.

Why do some want to limit him? He made the plan for salvation so that anyone who receives him through faith shall be saved.. so why do Calvinists want to complain against it?
 
G

Grandpa

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1ofthem said:
I don't know where you get this information, but I have never heard anyone say that they overcome God's will. That would be stupid and blasphemous.

If you take all the scriptures together you can see the whole picture. God sent his Son that whosoever will believe in him shall not perish. God wants ALL men to be saved and come to repentance. That's just for starters here....Jesus says if I be lifted up I will draw all men to myself. The Holy Ghost has been sent into the world to convict all....Many, many, many more verses.....etc., etc., etc.

And I am going to proclaim that to all. I'm not going to reword that and cast doubt or a stumbling block in anyone's way. There is no way that I would ever try to limit God.

Really though, why would anyone want to limit atonement? How can you not see that this doctrine of Calvinism is a stumbling block to the lost?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the enemy is full of trickery and deceit....just like he was in the garden....He doesn't want anyone to believe in what God has said. And God has said whosoever, any, all, all men, that shall call upon him shall be saved....

To say any differently is to cast doubt and a stumbling block to the lost.
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Yes. Exactly. It would be stupid and blasphemous.


The Lost don't know any Christian theology. They don't have any desire to know.

But still. Even if they did you are implying that their knowledge and their will can overcome Gods Will.


The Lost know exactly as much as God wants them to know. Either to harden their hearts or to draw them to Himself.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#2,787
Jun 24, 2011
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1ofthem said:
Yeah, God really, really wanted to do something....and guess, what he's already did it....He sent his Son to die on a cross that whosoever believes in him shall be saved.

Why do some want to limit him? He made the plan for salvation so that anyone who receives him through faith shall be saved.. so why do Calvinists want to complain against it?
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Calvinists don't complain against it.

Everyone who is drawn by God to Christ is Saved. EVERYONE.

If all the lost have to do is use their free-will to choose God and be saved then why don't they? It seems pretty simple.
 
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EleventhHour

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#2,791
Grandpa said:
Well you tell me.

God REALLY, REALLY wanted to do something but He wasn't able??? The will of the people of Jerusalem overpowered Gods Will???


That's not the view of Calvinism. The view of Calvinism is that God is Sovereign and God ALWAYS performs His Will.
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Then why would He not have all men be saved?
Why is that not His WILL?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Dec 12, 2013
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1ofthem said:
I really do hate getting into these type of conversations with Calvinists. It is usually fruitless. The only reason that I do it though, is for the simple fact that Calvinism, Reformed theology...is false, misleading, harmful, and dangerous.

God made the plan for salvation and put forth a simple message....He sent his only begotten Son so that whosoever will believe in him will not perish, but have eternal life. This is the message of the gospel. Jesus says if I be lifted up I will draw all men to myself. Whosoever will let him come and drink of the water of life freely. He sent out the invitation to all. That if thou shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved.

Why do some want to limit this? Calvinism could cast a stumbling block and doubt on to others who the Lord may be drawing. I cannot understand why anyone would want to do such a thing.
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Because Calvinism, like Mormonism is a cult.....end of story...they can reject, slice, dice, argue, peddle their skewed version of scriptures and the ideals their founder blathered on about and it will not change the facts on the ground that it is a man made dogma that has denied, rejected and skewed the truth....it is devisive, not of God and leads men/women astray......

The above can be seen on this site....One particular member has been the main divider, has turned people against the truth and God will judge!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Duskey said:
No accountability on their part by living a decedent, un-Christian life.
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The question you responded to reeks of a lack of understanding of the word on his part...The answer is.....MEN LOVE DARKNESS and won't come to the light lest their deeds be reproved........but hey....Calvin's followers will twist this like everything else they twist.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Grandpa said:
Yes. Exactly. It would be stupid and blasphemous.


The Lost don't know any Christian theology. They don't have any desire to know.

But still. Even if they did you are implying that their knowledge and their will can overcome Gods Will.


The Lost know exactly as much as God wants them to know. Either to harden their hearts or to draw them to Himself.
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Nice answer from your mentor Calvin....

My mentor says....Creation and the invisible testify and EVERY LANGUAGE can understand and because of this they are WITHOUT EXCUSE....but hey....keep believing a man over God......see how that works out for you!
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

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Dec 28, 2016
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Grandpa said:
Calvinists don't complain against it.

Everyone who is drawn by God to Christ is Saved. EVERYONE.

If all the lost have to do is use their free-will to choose God and be saved then why don't they? It seems pretty simple.
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Yes. All drawn are saved, and all drawn will be raised, John 6:44.
 
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EleventhHour

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Grandpa said:
Calvinists don't complain against it.

Everyone who is drawn by God to Christ is Saved. EVERYONE.

If all the lost have to do is use their free-will to choose God and be saved then why don't they? It seems pretty simple.
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What I have noticed is that you are very complacent towards the fact that many are never offered salvation, it is like it doesn't even bother you?
 
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