Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot
- Thread starter GraceAndTruth
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
- Status
We found most professing Christians don't want to hear the gospel, the typical response in "I'm a Catholic, I already believe and I'd rather not discuss religion right now".
We have bumped into the JW's on several occasions whilst door knocking, it's makes it difficult when we visit people after the JW's have already been there just before us.
We have bumped into the JW's on several occasions whilst door knocking, it's makes it difficult when we visit people after the JW's have already been there just before us.
E
The sad truth is you can post scripture after scripture .. what seems to clear to us they cannot see.
In Calvinism, ultimately scripture loses its authority... they do not believe God means what He says......
....Scripture and what God says submits to TULIP.
They would need to turn it around and see if TULIP fits scripture .. what are the chances
of that happening?????
In Calvinism, ultimately scripture loses its authority... they do not believe God means what He says......
....Scripture and what God says submits to TULIP.
They would need to turn it around and see if TULIP fits scripture .. what are the chances
of that happening?????
-
2
- Show all
The sad truth is you can post scripture after scripture .. what seems to clear to us they cannot see.
In Calvinism, ultimately scripture loses its authority... they do not believe God means what He says......
....Scripture and what God says submits to TULIP.
They would need to turn it around and see if TULIP fits scripture .. what are the chances
of that happening?????
In Calvinism, ultimately scripture loses its authority... they do not believe God means what He says......
....Scripture and what God says submits to TULIP.
They would need to turn it around and see if TULIP fits scripture .. what are the chances
of that happening?????
-
2
- Show all
This is the real DANGER of deliberately misrepresenting the Word of God. Because the Pharisees were wilfully blind, God ultimately blinded them, and Christ withheld God's truth from them. But the same principle applies today.
For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath. (Mk 4:25)
For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath. (Mk 4:25)
-
4
- Show all
I really do hate getting into these type of conversations with Calvinists. It is usually fruitless. The only reason that I do it though, is for the simple fact that Calvinism, Reformed theology...is false, misleading, harmful, and dangerous.
God made the plan for salvation and put forth a simple message....He sent his only begotten Son so that whosoever will believe in him will not perish, but have eternal life. This is the message of the gospel. Jesus says if I be lifted up I will draw all men to myself. Whosoever will let him come and drink of the water of life freely. He sent out the invitation to all. That if thou shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved.
Why do some want to limit this? Calvinism could cast a stumbling block and doubt on to others who the Lord may be drawing. I cannot understand why anyone would want to do such a thing.
God made the plan for salvation and put forth a simple message....He sent his only begotten Son so that whosoever will believe in him will not perish, but have eternal life. This is the message of the gospel. Jesus says if I be lifted up I will draw all men to myself. Whosoever will let him come and drink of the water of life freely. He sent out the invitation to all. That if thou shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved.
Why do some want to limit this? Calvinism could cast a stumbling block and doubt on to others who the Lord may be drawing. I cannot understand why anyone would want to do such a thing.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Calvinism doesn't cast a stumbling block or doubt on to others who the Lord is drawing. Quite the opposite.
It is freewillers who cast a stumbling block and doubt on others who the Lord may be drawing.
In Calvinism, there is nothing more concrete than the Lord drawing His People to Him.
The freewillers say that their own will can overcome Gods Will at any moment. This is the epitome of placing a stumbling block and doubt on to others who the Lord may be drawing.
It is freewillers who cast a stumbling block and doubt on others who the Lord may be drawing.
In Calvinism, there is nothing more concrete than the Lord drawing His People to Him.
The freewillers say that their own will can overcome Gods Will at any moment. This is the epitome of placing a stumbling block and doubt on to others who the Lord may be drawing.
-
2
- Show all
So if I understand you correctly, you're saying we don't contribute anything towards the work of salvation. That sounds Biblically correct and I've never found anything in the scriptures that would disagree with this.
My understanding is that God grants us everything we need to receive salvation, including obedience to the gospel. So we obey and do good works as a result of being regenerated and saved form our sin and not to attain salvation.
The two main ways Christians interpret the doctrine of salvation, is works based and grace based. The works based view teaches that we earn salvation by obedience and good works and the grace based view teaches that our obedience and works have nothing to do with salvation.
We find many with extreme views on both sides, and that doesn't help anyone understand what the Bible is actually teaching us. I'm sure your not one of those who thinks he can go through life with a relaxed attitude towards sin, because you know that nothing can cause you to lose your salvation. Many of us who believe in election are often accused of living as if we have a licence to sin.
Many who believe in election accuse those who believe in the joint effort type of salvation, of heresy. I would never conclude that ones view of this doctrine would make them a heretic or as unsaved. Only God knows who's names are written in His book of life, so we should treat everyone as potentially saved.
I haven't spoken to my pastor in a few months since this epidemic, but I look forward to asking him if a persons view of this particular Bible doctrine should cause us to break fellowship with those from the other camp.
My understanding is that God grants us everything we need to receive salvation, including obedience to the gospel. So we obey and do good works as a result of being regenerated and saved form our sin and not to attain salvation.
The two main ways Christians interpret the doctrine of salvation, is works based and grace based. The works based view teaches that we earn salvation by obedience and good works and the grace based view teaches that our obedience and works have nothing to do with salvation.
We find many with extreme views on both sides, and that doesn't help anyone understand what the Bible is actually teaching us. I'm sure your not one of those who thinks he can go through life with a relaxed attitude towards sin, because you know that nothing can cause you to lose your salvation. Many of us who believe in election are often accused of living as if we have a licence to sin.
Many who believe in election accuse those who believe in the joint effort type of salvation, of heresy. I would never conclude that ones view of this doctrine would make them a heretic or as unsaved. Only God knows who's names are written in His book of life, so we should treat everyone as potentially saved.
I haven't spoken to my pastor in a few months since this epidemic, but I look forward to asking him if a persons view of this particular Bible doctrine should cause us to break fellowship with those from the other camp.
E
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
Matthew 23:37
40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
John 5:40
So God failed here?
Calvinism has the wrong view of God.
Matthew 23:37
40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
John 5:40
So God failed here?
Calvinism has the wrong view of God.
-
1
- Show all
I recently heard a sermon where the preacher quoted a sobering statistic, which found that the average secular unbeliever from 50 years ago had higher moral standards than a regular Church goer today.
He sighted a long list of moral standards which the average unbeliever on the street believed in and held to. The main things were the views on abortion, adultery, homosexuality, crime and punishment, drug and alcohol abuse, divorce, fornication etc.
The comparison found that today's Christians are willing to accept many of those things in the Church, where as the average unbeliever would even vote for anyone who agreed with those things.
The Bible does warn us that the world world become like Sodom and Glamour, before the return of Christ. Those cities weren't just guilty of sexual immorality, they were lawless in every way and our world seems to be waxing worse with every passing year.
He sighted a long list of moral standards which the average unbeliever on the street believed in and held to. The main things were the views on abortion, adultery, homosexuality, crime and punishment, drug and alcohol abuse, divorce, fornication etc.
The comparison found that today's Christians are willing to accept many of those things in the Church, where as the average unbeliever would even vote for anyone who agreed with those things.
The Bible does warn us that the world world become like Sodom and Glamour, before the return of Christ. Those cities weren't just guilty of sexual immorality, they were lawless in every way and our world seems to be waxing worse with every passing year.
-
1
- Show all
E
This is the issue I have with your thinking bro
how can I over rule Gods will?
I can reject it, but I can not over rule it, I do not know really where this thinking comes from
if it is gods will that al who see and believe are saved, then those who see and do not believe do not overrule gods will, they just did not believe in gods will, and in turn will suffer the consequences.
many are called but few are chosen because like in John 6. Jesus called many disciples, but many did not believe, so only a few were chosen.
how can I over rule Gods will?
I can reject it, but I can not over rule it, I do not know really where this thinking comes from
if it is gods will that al who see and believe are saved, then those who see and do not believe do not overrule gods will, they just did not believe in gods will, and in turn will suffer the consequences.
many are called but few are chosen because like in John 6. Jesus called many disciples, but many did not believe, so only a few were chosen.
-
1
- Show all
I don't know where you get this information, but I have never heard anyone say that they overcome God's will. That would be stupid and blasphemous.
If you take all the scriptures together you can see the whole picture. God sent his Son that whosoever will believe in him shall not perish. God wants ALL men to be saved and come to repentance. That's just for starters here....Jesus says if I be lifted up I will draw all men to myself. The Holy Ghost has been sent into the world to convict all....Many, many, many more verses.....etc., etc., etc.
And I am going to proclaim that to all. I'm not going to reword that and cast doubt or a stumbling block in anyone's way. There is no way that I would ever try to limit God.
Really though, why would anyone want to limit atonement? How can you not see that this doctrine of Calvinism is a stumbling block to the lost?
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the enemy is full of trickery and deceit....just like he was in the garden....He doesn't want anyone to believe in what God has said. And God has said whosoever, any, all, all men, that shall call upon him shall be saved....
To say any differently is to cast doubt and a stumbling block to the lost.
If you take all the scriptures together you can see the whole picture. God sent his Son that whosoever will believe in him shall not perish. God wants ALL men to be saved and come to repentance. That's just for starters here....Jesus says if I be lifted up I will draw all men to myself. The Holy Ghost has been sent into the world to convict all....Many, many, many more verses.....etc., etc., etc.
And I am going to proclaim that to all. I'm not going to reword that and cast doubt or a stumbling block in anyone's way. There is no way that I would ever try to limit God.
Really though, why would anyone want to limit atonement? How can you not see that this doctrine of Calvinism is a stumbling block to the lost?
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the enemy is full of trickery and deceit....just like he was in the garden....He doesn't want anyone to believe in what God has said. And God has said whosoever, any, all, all men, that shall call upon him shall be saved....
To say any differently is to cast doubt and a stumbling block to the lost.
-
1
- Show all
- Status