Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Status
Not open for further replies.
May 31, 2020
1,706
1,559
113
DusK.
are you saying/believing that Calvinists are like the Mormons and JW's, etc??? that they don't believe that they are 'saved'
through Jesus's sacrifice and Holy Grace???
just asking, because we really don't know for sure, except for the JWs, because they believe that our Saviour is just an angel...???
It seems calvinists believe calvinists are definitely saved whereas non-calvinists’ salvation remains to be seen (in their eyes)
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
It IS redundant.

Why say He is the Saviour of all men and then say He is the Saviour especially of those that believe?

Does that mean that those who don't believe are also Saved? NO.


It means that there are men, right now and in the future, who don't believe but will believe. God is the Saviour of them too.
it has everything to do in how we use the word faith

Yes, he is not the savior of them who believe not. (no faith)

He is the Savior of all those who believe in him as he faithfully works in them to both will and perform his good pleasure .
This is why we work and struggle to defend his faith that works in us. He gives us His armor to make it possible.

He hides his face as knowledge from them who believe not .The walk by sight after the natural course of this world. "Out of sight out of mind".

Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

Not little faith none, zero.

The same generation of evil that seeks after sign as lying wonder before they will exercise faith (the unseen will) .The same generation of Adam. Natural unconverted mankind. No sign to wonder after were given .We walk by faith as it is written.

They make Jesus into a circus seal (side show). Do a miracle that we can see with our eyes and the we will believe. seeing is believing to the froward generation

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
In every case God must do the first work of His faith as a labor of His love.

Genesis 2: 7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

How does he offer it .If he does not do the first work of presenting the gospel .giving us ears to hear and therefore understanding. So that then we can seek after him who works in us . . who has no form?

Why are those in Hebrew 6 offered and then turn around fall away from it as it is written and say one demonstration was not enough . Crucify him over and over every time one falls.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Well it was pretty simple. I would pray and God would answer those prayers. Very quickly.
When you were a child and asked him to do Something for you You did not make him do Anything he did it because he loved you. Same thing. For God so loved the world (Kosmos) he gave his only son that whoever in that world believes in him they will Never perish but have eternal life
It’s the gift of god being offered. He is not coerced or force to bow to our will. Again I have never heard anything like that

Be perfect as your Father in Heaven is Perfect.

If you love me keep my commandments.

Come to me and I will give you rest.

Take every thought captive.

Abide in me.
yes all commands a child of god is given but not sure what these have to do with receiving gods gift of eternal life
What are you repenting of if you aren't following instructions? Repenting is a lot more complicated and difficult than merely making a statement that you repented.
no argument here. It is deep. And does not happen overnight

But no one can be saved or enter the kingdom of god unless they repent because until then you have no faith. No faith no justification no justification your still dead in sin

That’s where licentiousness and other works based gospels are at fault. They claim they believe but their belief is void of Repentance. It is faithless (faith is in self not god) and thus is unable to save
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
And then we choose to either embrace His love and saving grace or not.
And where does the power to embrace come from? And who does the first work seeing we have no faith of Christ working in us to begin with? Do we do the first labor of love as dead works towards Him?
 
Apr 9, 2020
136
30
28
If that were true sinners would be saved BEFORE they are saved, since regeneration (which includes quickening) equals salvation.

As you can see this is not only absurd, but contrary to Scripture. The unsaved can indeed read, understand, and believe the Gospel, since the Gospel is "the power of God unto salvation". The Gospel is the Word of God, and it is a living Word. At the same time God the Holy Spirit convicts and convinces sinners, and draws them to Christ. And it is only AFTER they repent and believe that they are saved by grace, regenerated, and have their spirits "quickened" or made alive.

As to the rest of your post, you are simply repeating what the Calvinists have taught you -- that God elects some for salvation and others for damnation. And that contradicts the Gospel. And when you contradict the Gospel, you contradict God and Christ.
My Bible tells me otherwise, it doesn't describe salvation in the order you claim above. My Bible tells me that salvation happens when God writes your name in the book of life, and that's before He laid the foundations of the the earth.

We can't just sweep those scriptures under the rug and pretend God doesn't mean what He says.
 
Apr 9, 2020
136
30
28
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God....this contradicts your order.....
It all comes down to how we choose to arrange the scriptures, God choose to have the written in such a way that they would confuse the wise of the world. We don't find many smart believers, all of the worlds top minds are atheists. Bible believers are seen as fools by the wise people of the world.
 
Apr 9, 2020
136
30
28
If this were true then there was never a time when you were the object of God’s wrath. There was never a time when you were dead in trespasses and sins. That goes against the truth of God’s word.
The scriptures never make any such claims, so this is your private assumption. The elect are all born dead in sins and trespasses, just as the reprobate are but God quickens them to life at His appointed time.
The thing created has no right to question the Creator, regarding His timing or motive.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
i was not able to correct my last post due to site going down so will try again.

Sorry @Grandpa

Well it was pretty simple. I would pray and God would answer those prayers. Very quickly.
When you were a child and asked him to do Something for you You did not make him do Anything he did it because he loved you.
Same thing. For God so loved the world (Kosmos) he gave his only son that whoever in that world believes in him they will Never perish but have eternal life
It’s the gift of god being offered. He is not coerced or force to bow to our will. Again I have never heard anything like that

Be perfect as your Father in Heaven is Perfect.

If you love me keep my commandments.

Come to me and I will give you rest.

Take every thought captive.

Abide in me.
yes all commands a child of god is given but not sure what these have to do with receiving gods gift of eternal life
 
Apr 9, 2020
136
30
28
Those who follow the tenets of John Calvin are chameleons, accusers and deceivers.

They work inside the flock, steal from within the flock and destroy the faith of many within the flock.

Like a virus within Christianity.

Yet look at their how they promote a different Jesus..

-one that did not give himself a propitiation for the sins of the whole world
-one that did not die for all
-one who did not taste death for every man
-one who did not give himself a ransom for all

A different one than the Christ of the Bible.
We believe in an almighty God who saves everyone He purposed to save, you believe He failed big time. So you don't believe that God is almighty, because He failed to save the majority of those He came to save.

So we have two different views of God, you believe He tried to sell salvation to everyone but ended up embarrassed because most didn't buy His sales pitch. It makes God look like a loser, who failed to sell eternal paradise for free and the majority of those He begged laughed Him to scorn and choose the spend eternity screaming in the lake of fire.

I can't accept a God who fails in anything, let alone selling eternal paradise for free. So I'll just stick with the God who has a 100% success rate in everything He does. I refuse to believe in a god who fails to achieve his goals.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
The scriptures never make any such claims, so this is your private assumption. The elect are all born dead in sins and trespasses, just as the reprobate are but God quickens them to life at His appointed time.
The thing created has no right to question the Creator, regarding His timing or motive.
yes, the dead are born dead in sin

thus until sin is resolved they can not be made alive.

your "private assumption" comment is just a strawman, Your in fact countering his believe with your own so called "private assumption"
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
This is talking about everyone in the world who comes to Christ, past, present and future.

It is not saying that the Lamb of God has erased all the sins of all the people who will ever live.

To make it say the 2nd is dishonest.

Think about the consequences of what you are trying to say here. Christ has taken away the sins of EVERYONE who ever lived and who will ever live. That means everyone who has ever lived and will ever live is Righteous before God without having to come to Christ or receive ANYTHING else from God.

This would be incorrect.

Jesus paid for the sins of all humanity, this does not mean all are saved.
Calvinism is drawing a conclusion that does not exist in scripture.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
It seems calvinists believe calvinists are definitely saved whereas non-calvinists’ salvation remains to be seen (in their eyes)
I guess that depends on which Calvinist your speaking to
 
May 31, 2020
1,706
1,559
113
And where does the power to embrace come from? And who does the first work seeing we have no faith of Christ working in us to begin with? Do we do the first labor of love as dead works towards Him?
I apologize for any confusion I may have caused. By saying “and then we choose” I am stating God does the initial work. That said however, I believe God gives everyone the opportunity and not just a select few.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.