Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

[Grandpa]

Wooo weee! A moment of clarity! 😃

Yep. Its too bad more of us don't have them.

 

[Grandpa]

Where does scripture state that perseverance is a gift?

Well I strongly suggest you read the bible for yourself....

 

[EleventhHour]

If you want the truth about Reformed Theology, and do not wish to misrepresent it, you must always go back to the Westminster Confession of Faith, which clearly, and in great detail, spells out Reformed (Calvinistic) Theology (and has many sound teachings mixed in with a false gospel). So here is what you need to read and digest (regardless of Sproul or anyone else).

Chapter XVII
Of the Perseverance of the Saints
[Note: my comments are in red]
​

I. They, whom God has accepted in His Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved. [Note: there is no ambiguity here whatsoever]

II. This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, [Note: this is false, since it depends on the power of God ("kept by the power of God"), and the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit working within the saint] flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father; upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ, the abiding of the Spirit, and of the seed of God within them, [Note: this is true and biblical] and the nature of the covenant of grace: from all which arises also the certainty and infallibility thereof.

III. Nevertheless, they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins; and, for a time, continue therein: whereby they incur God's displeasure, and grieve His Holy Spirit, come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts, have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded; hurt and scandalize others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves. [Note: all of this is true, and includes "the sin unto death"]

shall certainly persevere therein

I guess it all comes down to how one interprets this.... and what they meant.
I personally read this as somewhat convoluted.... no will?

This is based upon predestination ... that is why the "P" exists in the scheme........... the person has no choice but to preserver because they have been chosen and if they do not preserver they were never the elect.

 

[EleventhHour]

Well I strongly suggest you read the bible for yourself....

I have that is why I am not a Calvinist... ... and if John Calvin had read his Bible and not Augustine perhaps we would not have a different gospel that Paul warned about.

 

[EleventhHour]

Not if you want the scriptures to harmonize. John 3:16, is the world of those who believe, excluding those who do not believe. I am not trying to hide the truth, only trying to reveal the truth, knowing that the truth is only revealed by the Holy Spirit within a person.

Harmonize..... you say more like a a cacophony.... a forced mess of changing plain words to fit a twisted dogma.

I hate being harsh but that is exactly what it is ..... from start to finish.

It changes the very nature of God.

 

[Blue_Of_Lake]

Harmonize..... you say more like a a cacophony.... a forced mess of changing plain words to fit a twisted dogma.

I hate being harsh but that is exactly what it is ..... from start to finish.

It changes the very nature of God.

God is not the author of confusion.

but also the Scriptures do say we only know in part.

 

[Nehemiah6]

This is based upon predestination ...

Only partially. Kindly take time to check each one of the other reasons which they have clearly stated.

 

[dcontroversal]

The truth is hidden from the wise and prudent. if you are in that group.

Everytime you and your pals embellish the word as you have done in the post above, you make the word of God into a lie....make no mistake pal...that is what you have done and your Calvinist following buddy must like the embellished version better than the biblical version.

 

[dcontroversal]

I do not see any quoted scriptures. Not a good defensive stance at all.

Exactly why I labeled your diatribe as fraudulent religious points....!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Not if you want the scriptures to harmonize. John 3:16, is the world of those who believe, excluding those who do not believe. I am not trying to hide the truth, only trying to reveal the truth, knowing that the truth is only revealed by the Holy Spirit within a person.

No.....it is not the world of believers....that is your False Calvinite embellishment....!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not if you want the scriptures to harmonize. John 3:16, is the world of those who believe, excluding those who do not believe. I am not trying to hide the truth, only trying to reveal the truth, knowing that the truth is only revealed by the Holy Spirit within a person.

No it is not.

nothing in the passage would in any way make the context of world be those who believe.

he died for the world,

whoever in that world believes will never die but has eternal life (will live forever)

whoever in the world that believes is not condemned

whoever in that world who does not believe is condemned already

thatbis the context of thenworld and who is in it. you must follow the train of though. Plus as I said, if he just died for the elect he would have said so

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No.....it is not the world of believers....that is your False Calvinite embellishment....!

From what was posted, it does not even appear to be calvins belief..lol

 

[Grandpa]

No.....it is not the world of believers....that is your False Calvinite embellishment....!

The Lord has said that Without Me you can do nothing.

The Lord has said No one can come to me unless God draws him.

Therefore, it is EASY to see that although John 3:16 is presented to the whole world, only those drawn by God will be true believers.


Its just like the blessing and the curse. Do this and be blessed. Don't do it and be cursed. Well, working at doing it was impossible. There was no way to be blessed by working at the law. The Law is spiritual but all those who work at it are carnal.

The way to be blessed is to rest from your work at the law and abide in Christ.

No one understands this except those who have been to Christ. If you have been to Christ then you have been drawn by God...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Lord has said that Without Me you can do nothing.

The Lord has said No one can come to me unless God draws him.

Therefore, it is EASY to see that although John 3:16 is presented to the whole world, only those drawn by God will be true believers.


Its just like the blessing and the curse. Do this and be blessed. Don't do it and be cursed. Well, working at doing it was impossible. There was no way to be blessed by working at the law. The Law is spiritual but all those who work at it are carnal.

The way to be blessed is to rest from your work at the law and abide in Christ.

No one understands this except those who have been to Christ. If you have been to Christ then you have been drawn by God...

Now this is something I can see and agree. Yes it was to the whole world but
Only those drawn and taught by God will
Receive

However I will add. They still must react with faith. Apart from faith it is impossible

 

[EleventhHour]

The Lord has said that Without Me you can do nothing.

The Lord has said No one can come to me unless God draws him.

Therefore, it is EASY to see that although John 3:16 is presented to the whole world, only those drawn by God will be true believers.


Its just like the blessing and the curse. Do this and be blessed. Don't do it and be cursed. Well, working at doing it was impossible. There was no way to be blessed by working at the law. The Law is spiritual but all those who work at it are carnal.

The way to be blessed is to rest from your work at the law and abide in Christ.

No one understands this except those who have been to Christ. If you have been to Christ then you have been drawn by God...

Irresistible Grace is only extended to Gods Elect.

Unbelievers can easily resist Grace.

You see the five tenets of Calvinism are not easily dismantled... it works as a whole.

Based on the above you accept the doctrine of "irresistible grace" and realizing the there is no way around John 3:16 without denying the obvious plain truth of scripture ... create another problem.

While Calvin was wrong he was not stupid.

Now God has offered the John 3:16 to the whole world but He actually denies His own words because of irresistible grace.
This is almost a worse depiction of God... because it goes out to the whole world but then He withholds His irresistible grace from those He has not chosen.

Hence the need for limited atonement and why "world" cannot be "world" for a Calvinite unless one abandons irresistible grace on the selected few.

 

[EleventhHour]

Irresistible Grace is only extended to Gods Elect.

Unbelievers can easily resist Grace.

So tell us which is it .... irresistible grace or resistible grace or have you changed your mind?

What did you say about a broken clock to me?

 

[EleventhHour]

Not if you want the scriptures to harmonize. John 3:16, is the world of those who believe, excluding those who do not believe. I am not trying to hide the truth, only trying to reveal the truth, knowing that the truth is only revealed by the Holy Spirit within a person.

@Grandpa you put a like on this post

and then a red x on @dcontroversal post that refuted this post.

And now you say John 3:16 is for the whole world. So where do you stand exactly?

 

[Just_Jo]

I am nothing but blood bought by Jesus.
I had and have nothing to offer God to be righteous.

I do believe we have an important role in our walk as believers.
We cannot sit back and expect God to do it all.
Obedience is the key to me,if He said IT, He means IT.

His word needs no embellishments,no testimony of a plain man; our testator died for us to establish salvation for us.

All of us who will believe!

 

[Duskey]

I do not see any quoted scriptures. Not a good defensive stance at all.

That shouldn’t bother you since you embellish Scripture by adding to it.

 

[jackrosie]

The Lord has said that Without Me you can do nothing.



Amen!!.....it’s the Holy Spirit within us,that has the power....without the Spirit of God.....we can do absolutely nothing.

I am going through a tough situation at the moment....I rest in God,because I know in my Spirit he is in control....and I can’t rush the Lord....and besides I wouldn’t want too.

His timing is “PERFECT “.