Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

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Mar 28, 2016
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I don't think I can comment , because I've no idea what you mean ? sorry .
Sorry.

How do you think Jesus the apostle prophet, living in a body of death heard the faith and did the will of the father .

How did Jesus come to the father ? Did the father draw him from within?
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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Sorry.

How do you think Jesus the apostle prophet, living in a body of death heard the faith and did the will of the father .

How did Jesus come to the father ? Did the father draw him from within?
Through prayer and power of the Holy Spirit ..Not to mention Jesus being God .
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Nice try at a diversionary calvinogma tactic....you will have to grow up, eat your wheaties and get up before the chickens to catch me in some rigmarole verbiage trap........

My bible says God only chastens SONS WHOM HE RECEIVES....yet LOVED THE WHOLE KOSMOS and PAID FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD

Nice try pal...no ceeeegarr!
If God only chastens those that he loves, and your doctrine says that he loves all mankind that inhabits the whole world, then why does he not chasten them? Your doctrinal theory does not harmonize with all of the scriptures.

You are right about God not chastening those that are not his; Psalms 71:5 says that the wicked are not divinely punished (plagued) like other men. That is because he loves his elect children, and does not love the wicked that are not his elect.

Isaiah 65:9, And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains, and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

Rom 9:11, The purpose of God according to ELECTION might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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If God only chastens those that he loves, and your doctrine says that he loves all mankind that inhabits the whole world, then why does he not chasten them? Your doctrinal theory does not harmonize with all of the scriptures.

You are right about God not chastening those that are not his; Psalms 71:5 says that the wicked are not divinely punished (plagued) like other men. That is because he loves his elect children, and does not love the wicked that are not his elect.

Isaiah 65:9, And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains, and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

Rom 9:11, The purpose of God according to ELECTION might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.
He chastens those in the context of those verses ..context is so crucial .
 

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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If God only chastens those that he loves
You should have added "as His children" at the end of that sentence. God only chastens His children, just like a human father only disciplines his children.
For whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom He receiveth. (Heb 12:6)

And chastening is not the same as wrath. Chastening is an expression of His love for His children.
 
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EleventhHour

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Your personal estimation I assume. How about defending what you think to be true with scripture back up. You do realise, if you are a student of the scriptures, that in Jesus's days on earth, the majority of mankind made similar remarks as yours about the doctrine Jesus preached, even his own disciples said "this is a hard saying, who can know it".
Yes, who can know it indeed... perhaps the one who rightly divides the word of God and genuinely desires to be lead by the Spirit of truth ....laying aside presuppositions.

Surely, only someone with presuppositions needs to change the words of scripture.

I think the onus is on you to defend adding words and changing the meaning of a verse.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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This contradicts Scripture. "The Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus is in fact the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is given as a gift to THE UNSAVED only when they repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38) [Note: it is repentance that is for the remission of sins, and water baptism follows]

This was said after the Gospel was preached to unsaved Jews in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost, and it has never changed. After this the saints are "in Christ" and also have the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Calvinism simply disregards the power of the Gospel and the power of the accompanying Holy Spirit to bring sinners to the Savior.

Indeed Calvinism distorts the Gospel completely, as we have seen by comparing the commentaries of Calvin to his theology.
The unsaved receive the Holy Spirit now.

Just when I think I've heard it all....
 

Grandpa

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Jun 24, 2011
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So Jesus was joking when He offered the rich, young ruler a chance to be His disciple? 🤔
Why would God give "general grace" to all then since they cannot believe?

Sounds like a fickle God to me.

As well, "regeneration precedes belief" in Calvinism.. are you now saying you do not concur with this?

Here I will help you, this is what you should have typed...
Do you even need me for this? Should I give you some space? :ROFL::ROFL::ROFL:
 
May 31, 2020
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Only your "interpretation" of it.
I offered no interpretation of Romans 5:8 whatsoever but rather I merely posted it and you were overcome with the heretical desire to give it a big ole red x. Very telling.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
Do you even need me for this? Should I give you some space? :ROFL::ROFL::ROFL:
Are you telling me you cannot defend your interpretation of scripture?

You made the assertion that "general grace" is for everyone....yet people are unable to respond because they are so incapacitated and

and God never intended to offer "irresistible grace" to them since they are not selected, what is the point of this general grace?
 

Grandpa

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Jun 24, 2011
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Are you telling me you cannot defend your interpretation of scripture?

You made the assertion that "general grace" is for everyone....yet people are unable to respond because they are so incapacitated and

and God never intended to offer "irresistible grace" to them since they are not selected, what is the point of this general grace?
God giving everyone His General Grace, believers and unbelievers alike is a statement of FACT.

God making His Grace irresistible to those who believe is a statement of FACT.


Its like offering a starving man a sandwich. That sandwich is received 100% of the time by the starving.


But those who don't know they are starving, don't think they even need food, they are able to resist this "sandwich".
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Not at all. We simply understand the free gift of God’s grace is available to everyone but sadly many people refuse to accept His grace.
The natural man cannot discern the things of the Spirit (1 Cor 2:14). God's grace is a thing of the Spirit, and at the time that God quickens the natural man, he is still spiritually dead, and would not accept God's grace, but Eph 2 says that God quickens him anyway. God gave mankind the freedom to choose out his changes as he sojourns here in this world, But mankind does not have the freedom to choose eternal life, that is a free gift given by God's sovereign grace, without any input, or help from mankind.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Nice try at a diversionary calvinogma tactic....you will have to grow up, eat your wheaties and get up before the chickens to catch me in some rigmarole verbiage trap........

My bible says God only chastens SONS WHOM HE RECEIVES....yet LOVED THE WHOLE KOSMOS and PAID FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD

Nice try pal...no ceeeegarr!
I have told you before that I have never read Calvin's writings, and what I have been told about him, I do not agree with his interpretation of scriptures because there are some, that I have heard of, that do not harmonize with all scriptures.

Scripture proves scripture, and should be our only source of gleaning the truth of Christ's doctrine, with the revelation of the Holy Spirit.

God has given mankind freedom to choose out his changes as he sojourns here on earth, but mankind's eternal destination is made by God's grace, without the help of mankind.

God does not predetermine mankind's actions, however, he knows beforehand, what man will choose.

Mankind, by the freedom that God gave him to choose, chose not to seek God. By God's foreknowledge of what mankind would choose, is the reason that he chose an elect people before the foundation of the world.

Those same elect people are born into this world, by natural birth, without any spiritual knowledge until God quickens them to a new spiritual life, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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The natural man cannot discern the things of the Spirit (1 Cor 2:14). God's grace is a thing of the Spirit, and at the time that God quickens the natural man, he is still spiritually dead, and would not accept God's grace, but Eph 2 says that God quickens him anyway. God gave mankind the freedom to choose out his changes as he sojourns here in this world, But mankind does not have the freedom to choose eternal life, that is a free gift given by God's sovereign grace, without any input, or help from mankind.
///mankind does not have the freedom to choose eternal life, ////
That right there is the most damaging teaching in Calvinism , to the Gospel and to the body of christ . Thats heart breaking .
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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yes Jesus has saved everyone from their sins . Thats my point . But no one is Glorified without receiving the atonement. Without receiving Jesus Christ .
Christ did not die in vain. He accomplished what his Father sent him to the cross to do, and that was to be a sacrifice for the sins of all of those that his Father gave to him, After Jesus made that sacrifice, God looks upon them as holy, and without blame (as far as their eternal inheritance is concerned), and calls them priests and kings, and says that that their sins have been washed away, and they are as white as snow.

Jesus was a sacrifice offered to God, for God's acceptance, and not to mankind for mankind's acceptance
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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Christ did not die in vain. He accomplished what his Father sent him to the cross to do, and that was to be a sacrifice for the sins of all of those that his Father gave to him, After Jesus made that sacrifice, God looks upon them as holy, and without blame (as far as their eternal inheritance is concerned), and calls them priests and kings, and says that that their sins have been washed away, and they are as white as snow.

Jesus was a sacrifice offered to God, for God's acceptance, and not to mankind for mankind's acceptance
I appreciate that is what the system teaches . That the Father gave a love gift to the Son , ' Calvinists ' . Its a very ' me ' centered theology . Its about Jesus , he's the only preexisting elect before the foundation of the world .
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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///mankind does not have the freedom to choose eternal life, ////
That right there is the most damaging teaching in Calvinism , to the Gospel and to the body of christ . Thats heart breaking .
All of the scriptures must harmonize if we are to understand the truths that Jesus taught. Eph 2 plainly states that the natural man, at the time of his quickening, is spiritually dead, cannot discern the things of the Spirit, 1 Cor 2:14, and therefore, is in no position to accept things of the Spirit, such as a new spiritual life.
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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Christ did not die in vain. He accomplished what his Father sent him to the cross to do, and that was to be a sacrifice for the sins of all of those that his Father gave to him, After Jesus made that sacrifice, God looks upon them as holy, and without blame (as far as their eternal inheritance is concerned), and calls them priests and kings, and says that that their sins have been washed away, and they are as white as snow.

Jesus was a sacrifice offered to God, for God's acceptance, and not to mankind for mankind's acceptance
All of the scriptures must harmonize if we are to understand the truths that Jesus taught. Eph 2 plainly states that the natural man, at the time of his quickening, is spiritually dead, cannot discern the things of the Spirit, 1 Cor 2:14, and therefore, is in no position to accept things of the Spirit, such as a new spiritual life.
1 cor 2 .14 mentions the ' natural man ' / carnal / babe . Not eph 2 so your mis quoting . Then you say ' at the time of his quickening is spiritually dead assuming that is what calvinism teaches about ' quickening ' and ' spiritually dead is the same as the biblical understanding. Then you reverse back to 1 cor 2.14 assuming its saying ' the unelect reprobate cannot believe the Gospel unless he is regenerated first' .
 
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