Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Status
Not open for further replies.

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
I suggest you study Atonement. Study the phrase "Save them from their sins".

Maybe something will eventually click.
Could you post the verse that says that . you might notice whos sins .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
I suggest you study Atonement. Study the phrase "Save them from their sins".

Maybe something will eventually click.
yes Jesus has saved everyone from their sins . Thats my point . But no one is Glorified without receiving the atonement. Without receiving Jesus Christ .
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
Can you then tell me is "resistible grace" applied to the non-believers or is grace not extended to them at all?
General grace is given to all but only believers can see and realize that it is Grace.

By seeing this Grace the believer is drawn irresistibly to God.

Unbelievers don't even realize it is Gods Grace. Because they don't believe in God and they don't believe in Grace.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
I suggest you study Atonement. Study the phrase "Save them from their sins".

Maybe something will eventually click.
Everyone! IS saved from their sins as Jesus has paid for ALL sins .
Mat 13.44
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
Notice he buys the entire field .
We go tell people that Jesus has died for them but unless they Recieve Him they will not be saved .
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
If a person does not believe on Jesus they go to hell. For a believer there is no condemnation. People are or won't be in hell paying for their sins . No verse says this . they are in Hell because they refused to believe the truth so as to be saved ..condemned for this .
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Doesn't this say that a person HAS TO believe in Christ in order to be free from the law of sin and death???

The reason they are under condemnation and death is because of the law of sin and death.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
yes Jesus has saved everyone from their sins . Thats my point . But no one is Glorified without receiving the atonement. Without receiving Jesus Christ .
Only the Atonement saves anyone from their sins. That's why you need to study Atonement.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,770
113
A person HAS to be IN CHRIST in order to RECEIVE the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.
This contradicts Scripture. "The Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus is in fact the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is given as a gift to THE UNSAVED only when they repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38) [Note: it is repentance that is for the remission of sins, and water baptism follows]

This was said after the Gospel was preached to unsaved Jews in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost, and it has never changed. After this the saints are "in Christ" and also have the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Calvinism simply disregards the power of the Gospel and the power of the accompanying Holy Spirit to bring sinners to the Savior.

Indeed Calvinism distorts the Gospel completely, as we have seen by comparing the commentaries of Calvin to his theology.
 
May 31, 2020
1,706
1,559
113
There is no difference in your two "points". Those who come to Christ have been drawn by God.

John 6:44-45
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
So Jesus was joking when He offered the rich, young ruler a chance to be His disciple? 🤔
 
May 31, 2020
1,706
1,559
113
You APPLY the Atonement to ALL men through your false philosophy.

The free gift of Gods grace IS available to everyone, from our point of view. We don't know who is the elect and who is not.

Theologically, the reason why some refuse is because they are not chosen.
I reiterate, Jesus offered the rich young man the opportunity to become a disciple and receive eternal life. The young man declined of his own free will. What don’t you understand about that?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
General grace is given to all but only believers can see and realize that it is Grace.

By seeing this Grace the believer is drawn irresistibly to God.

Unbelievers don't even realize it is Gods Grace. Because they don't believe in God and they don't believe in Grace.
Why would God give "general grace" to all then since they cannot believe?

Sounds like a fickle God to me.

As well, "regeneration precedes belief" in Calvinism.. are you now saying you do not concur with this?

Here I will help you, this is what you should have typed...

By seeing this "Irresistible grace" the person is drawn irresistibly to God and regenerated and then they need to hear the Gospel so they can believe.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
Only the Atonement saves anyone from their sins. That's why you need to study Atonement.
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have NOW received the atonement. Rom 5 .11
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
This contradicts Scripture. "The Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus is in fact the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is given as a gift to THE UNSAVED only when they repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38) [Note: it is repentance that is for the remission of sins, and water baptism follows]

This was said after the Gospel was preached to unsaved Jews in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost, and it has never changed. After this the saints are "in Christ" and also have the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Calvinism simply disregards the power of the Gospel and the power of the accompanying Holy Spirit to bring sinners to the Savior.

Indeed Calvinism distorts the Gospel completely, as we have seen by comparing the commentaries of Calvin to his theology.

Agree the Gospel is devoid of its power..... scripture no where teaches regeneration precedes faith.

Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Romans 5:2

In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Ephesians 1:13
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
Audibly? I'm sure they actually heared Jesus voice in John
d
does it say : there's none that can positively respond to the Gospel when heard ?
Hearing the voice and given the power to believe are two different things. The last thing profits as believing the vision hearing of faith or revelation made known It is necessary.

Tasting people who once learned the truth, received God’s gift, and shared in the Holy Spirit. If they deny the "eternity" of the gift. Can we make them change their minds. . . if the Spirt did not do the work?? .Or do we continue to pray and fast that Christ be formed in them as it was in Timothy, when Paul did the work of offering the gospel, sufferings in pains of anticipation(born again) ?

No, its say the ones that were given the power of faith working in their new hearts, "believed God" No power comes from the corrupted flesh of mankind. Can't offer dead works (the sufferings of the first death) offered towards God .Christ offered that with his first born among men the Son of man Jesus the apostle and High Priest. .

Christians begin with no faith, zero. Not little like given to the apostles so they could believe. The first experience of his labor of love working in these bodies of death. Making our load lighter as we do rest with him by his labor of love called a work of His faith.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
yes they CAN come . do you see that ? Those old testament followers of Jehovah were learning of the Father ..They accepted what Jesus was saying. The sheep , which are Jews and not Americans of British folks in 2020 .
Then Jesus says He will draw all men .
there's no verses after the cross saying the Father or the Holy Spirit is drawing anyone .
Just as we listen to the father or Jesus listened to the father?

The no man CAN come in that verse is "mankind" the corrupted powerless kind. You could say the inward Jew born again of the Spirit of Christ can come having the power of the father. . If any man has not the Spirt of Christ they are not of Christ, but are men dead in their trespasses and sins, Outward, what the eyes not Jews . They mankind have no living faith, not little. . . . none, zero.

Romans 2:28 For he (mankind) is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

A Jew is simply another word for a born again believer like the word Christian or Israel. One bride one gospel

The verses in the garden, the father the power and son suffering unto death working as one it is "stage one" of the three day demonstration of two working as one . The cross, stage two follows and the tomb, stage three of that three day demonstration
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
Just as we listen to the father or Jesus listened to the father?

The no man CAN come in that verse is "mankind" the corrupted powerless kind. You could say the inward Jew born again of the Spirit of Christ can come having the power of the father. . If any man has not the Spirt of Christ they are not of Christ, but are men dead in their trespasses and sins, Outward, what the eyes not Jews . They mankind have no living faith, not little. . . . none, zero.

Romans 2:28 For he (mankind) is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

A Jew is simply another word for a born again believer like the word Christian or Israel. One bride one gospel

The verses in the garden, the father the power and son suffering unto death working as one it is "stage one" of the three day demonstration of two working as one . The cross, stage two follows and the tomb, stage three of that three day demonstration
I don't think I can comment , because I've no idea what you mean ? sorry .
 
Status
Not open for further replies.