Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

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MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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#41
People do debate about OSAS and not OSAS.

OSAS says they cannot abstain from sin, and sin does not affect their relationship with God, and obviously they sin because they say they cannot abstain from sins, so sin cannot affect their relationship with God, because they can never fall, and those that oppose OSAS says that they can abstain from sin by the Spirit, and sin does affect their relationship with God, and they can lose out on salvation if they hold unto sin.

But let us consider this.

If OSAS is true then God would only work in the lives of those He chose, for there would be no reason for God to work in the lives of those He did not choose.

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

No person can say Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost, so if a person confesses Jesus is Lord, God would have to be working in their life.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

No person can come to the Son to confess Him as Savior unless the Father draws them to the Son, so if a person confesses the Son as Savior then God is working in their life.

Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

If a person confesses that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, it can only be revealed to them by the Father, so God is working in their life.

Both OSAS and those that oppose OSAS believe those things, and confess those things, so God would have to be working among both of them, so the ones that do not believe OSAS would have to still be saved even though they do not believe OSAS, so why do the OSAS people bother to hassle them if they are saved too.

It seems like the OSAS people try to say the criteria for being saved is believing in OSAS instead of acting Christlike being led of the Spirit, having works of love.

But the Bible says many are called, but few are chosen, so God does the calling and choosing on earth.

And the Lord knows them that are His having this seal, for this is what seals the saints, and how they are led of the Spirit, that everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

And if a person hates sin, and does not want sin, by the Spirit they can abstain from sin, for they will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts, and show the ways of the Spirit, and not the ways of the flesh.

And those that are led of the Spirit are not under the law, because their sins are forgiven, and they are abstaining from sin, so the law cannot touch them for prosecution.

But all sin can be forgiven but a person should have the proper attitude and get rid of it and keep moving forward and do not hold unto sin, for then the blood of Christ cannot wash it away.

So which belief is right OSAS or a person can lose salvation if they do not act Christlike led by the Spirit.

Which it appears that those that say to act Christlike led by the Spirit seem to have the truth in the matter.

If OSAS is true then both beliefs would be saved for they confess those things concerning Jesus, and God is working in their life.

But many are called, but few are chosen, so many confess those things but not all will be saved, for some have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof, and it points out their sins, and they are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God, for they want to enjoy the world like the world enjoys it, and believe they are still saved.

And God said to turn away from them, so if OSAS says they cannot abstain from sin, and sin does not affect their relationship with God, does it seem like they are the ones that fit that attitude of having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof, for a Spirit led life will not sin, and they say they cannot abstain from sins, so they would have to be denying the Spirit leading them.

If OSAS is true then God's kingdom is not true love, and He is not evil to condemn people that have no choice but to reject truth seeing no other alternative.

That means the ones God did choose their faith is not real, their confession of Christ is not real, their love of God is not real, their hope is not real, their repenting of their sins is not real, for it did not come from them but from God.

If OSAS is true then God would of not have created the earth, for the earth would serve no purpose for God could create them to be with Him, and cut out the earth, and the result would be the same for they have no participation in their salvation.

The reason that there is an earth that people dwell on is because they have to be apart from God, so they can choose that salvation while not dwelling with God, believing it is true by faith.

But if OSAS is true there is no purpose for the earth.



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Sep 9, 2018
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#43
so sin cannot affect their relationship with God
When your child sins does he cease to be your child (assuming you are a parent). If you wife sins does she cease to be your wife? But fellowship can be broken. And if you are any kind of true, loving person, you will do whatever you have to do to restore that fellowship with your kids or your wife or your parents . . . etc.

You might be saved. I don't know. I hope you are. But not trusting in Jesus' completed work of salvation is not really the trust/faith that He is looking for.

Okay, you 'feel' like you can lose your salvation. You even 'feel' like that is what the Bible teaches. But you really haven't done anywhere near the study you need to find assurance. But you have had many teachers.

Christians once 'wanted' to sin, but God gradually--in His time--changes their wants. How many people do you know that were saved and immediately gave up their alcohol? But over time they grew in the Lord and in grace and they came to a place where they no longer needed it--because they discovered that Jesus satisfies their every need.
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
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#44
He does not impart new revelation, but He takes the Word of God and applies it to us in every situation -- if we have ears to hear.
to allow the word to work through us, or the word to grow and activate in us, do we simply "water the seed" to nourish the seed?

is this what you mean by "ears to hear", or how God apply the word to us?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,952
3,573
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#45
Here is what I believe, and am totally unshakable in these truths
Well good for you. At least everyone now knows that you are fully committed to a FALSE GOSPEL (TULIP). But you should also know that all false gospels are accursed (Gal 1). And when you add Catholic Amillennialism to the mix, you are bound to fall into grave errors.

At the same time, no Bible-believing Christian can argue with the Five Solas. But God alone receives glory when the true Gospel of God is preached and propagated.

JOHN 3
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
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#46
Mr. Nehemiah,
what is it like to hear God's voice, is it as ethereal as what people seem to claim
is it so common that every wavelength that can be scientifically measured is God speaking to us?
 

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2018
1,575
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#49
You can call me all the names you desire, slander away, you've called me lost as well but that's ok it doesn't effect me nor what God has done for me. I know that no charge against God's elect will stand, Romans 8:33-34.

I feel sorry for you and will pray for you that God opens the eyes of your heart. You're so filled with hatred and slander. I say this in concern and love.
I take it you are quoting a post from BBB?

I tried to converse with him in a friendly manner, yet all he did was insult me time after time. Quite sad coming from someone who is 65.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#51
People do debate about OSAS and not OSAS.

OSAS says they cannot abstain from sin, and sin does not affect their relationship with God...
Straw man, false assertions. In your rather lengthy responses, please attempt to speak the truth on a matter. OSAS doesn't teach the things you want it to say.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
5,540
2,250
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#52
Here is what I believe, and am totally unshakable in these truths
Doctrines of Grace or TULIP
T - total depravity of man
U - Unconditional election of the saints
L - Limited atonement
I - Irresistable Grace
P - preservation of the saints (once saved always saved.

the 5 Solas
sola scriptura the bible alone as our only source for faith and morals
sola gratia grace alone
sola fide faith alone
sola Christos Christ alone
soli deo gloria glory to God alone

The ONE true God eternally exists as three distinct Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal, co-eternal, and one in essence.

and in the eschatology of Amillianism
I agree with the 5 solas..
But i am not a calvinist
Also i believe in the 1000 year reign of Jesus on earth which starts at the time of His second coming..
I have no problem with your description of the trinity..
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,374
2,504
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#53
You can call me all the names you desire, slander away, you've called me lost as well but that's ok it doesn't effect me nor what God has done for me. I know that no charge against God's elect will stand, Romans 8:33-34.

I feel sorry for you and will pray for you that God opens the eyes of your heart. You're so filled with hatred and slander. I say this in concern and love.
Just two days ago you were saying I preach a false gospel, and you've said the same to him. And we preach 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, romans 3:21-26 SINCE WHEN is that a false gospel?

Now you are praying for him, and playing the victim, despite constantly doing the same to us and calling us lost too...... Pot meet kettle.
(Unless we are still saved after preaching a false gospel, you know, SOMEHOW?)
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
12,300
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#54
to allow the word to work through us, or the word to grow and activate in us, do we simply "water the seed" to nourish the seed?

is this what you mean by "ears to hear", or how God apply the word to us?
It is how he applies his words as giving us the sound of his voice in our ears as his spiritual unseen understanding. Previously deaf and blind with no faith or way as a work to hear. God as he does work in us to both will and do His good pleasure (imputed righteousness) . We work out what we hear and not work for it to hear him not seen .

Not ears to hear what the churches say to the churches or denominations are saying .Those would be the private interpretations as personal commentaries of men. Everyman has one a little different or much from the other like fingerprints.

Its like Paul said; what do we have that we have not been freely given and if we claim we are given .Why would we boast as if not. God makes us different …... LOL Men drool women rule?

No hearing aid (God's word)……. no hearing God . They are free just believe His voice and not your own imaginations of the heart (no faith) .

Isaiah 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
7,891
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#55
This is the accompanying account of the narrow path in Matthew:
Luke 13:
23 Then one said to Him, “Lord, are there few who are saved?”
And He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

So what is this narrow path and gate?

I think John tells us EXACTLY.

John 10:9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a] They will come in and go out, and find pasture.


I tried to see the wide path, that leads to DESTRUCTION, the way FGC sees it, that those that enter it will be saved, but it simply isn't there. And the attempt to use that Abraham will have SAVED descendants as numerous as the sand on the sea, as justification that the wide path people will be saved, frankly seems like a HUGE stretch.

Why can't there be numerous saved, yet a VASTLY MORE numerous amount that are not?

So if Jesus is the Narrow Path and Narrow Gate, what is the wide path that leads to destruction?

I believe it is EVERY attempt to enter that is NOT Jesus. Partial list:
Baha'i,Buddhism, Confucianism, Hinduism, Islam, Jainism, Judaism, Shinto,Sikhism, Taoism, Zoroastrianism, Mormonism. And the MOST deceived of all, WORKS BASED CHRISTIANITY.

Every one of these religions have ONE thing in common. MAN ATTEMPTING TO EITHER WORK HIS WAY TO HEAVEN OR BECOME LIKE GOD.
 
Sep 9, 2018
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#56
to allow the word to work through us, or the word to grow and activate in us, do we simply "water the seed" to nourish the seed?

is this what you mean by "ears to hear", or how God apply the word to us?
Water the seed through faithful Bible reading. Read it every day. Try to get in one chapter in Proverbs. It has 31 chapters - so read the one corresponding with today's date.

They have Bible reading plans on the internet so that you can read it through in a year. Or pick a book and stick with it for a month.

And then pray and ask God to increase your understanding and then ask the Holy Spirit to fill you daily, or hourly, or more as you need Him.

This whole thing is supernatural and in God's will for your life.

God bless.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
12,300
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#57
Just two days ago you were saying I preach a false gospel, and you've said the same to him. And we preach 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, romans 3:21-26 SINCE WHEN is that a false gospel?

Now you are praying for him, and playing the victim, despite constantly doing the same to us and calling us lost too...... Pot meet kettle.
(Unless we are still saved after preaching a false gospel, you know, SOMEHOW?)
We are saved by the preaching as he preaches we can hear Him . We can plant the seed by which men are born anew from above and water, He alone gives us the ears that can cause the growth .

We preach Christ not our own selves. In that way we are to call know man teacher of earth one is in heaven. We are all sisters and brothers not infallible teachers.

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.Romans 3: 21-26

There are "two kinds" of laws that together make the one perfect or complete law. Neither one separate from the other both working together as one.

One the letter of the law the scriptures which the eyes see. It kills showing our helplessness( no faith)and the other the "Spirit of the law" or "Spirit of grace" not seen, The law of faith that gives us ears and eyes in respect to the eternal not seen to hear what the Spirit is saying.

Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Again the two working together in perfect harmony as one perfect or complete law .

In Psalm 19 (one of my favorites for rejoices my heart) below, The perfect or again complete law of God is shown doing it manifold workings of His perfect work of faith in us .

A paraphrased description.as in first things first, Converting our soul. Freely giving us simply ones his unseen understanding. Those understanding working in our heart enlighten the eyes of our heart. Giving us the eternal confidence that if he has begun the good work of salvation he will finish it to the end. Giving as new desire to search for His understanding. The sweet aroma of the hidden manna. Which simply means "what is it"? Having it in respect to the hidden spiritual understanding

The law of the Lord "is perfect", converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord "is sure", making wise the simple.The statutes of the Lord "are right", rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord "is pure", enlightening the eyes.The fear of the Lord "is clean", enduring for ever: the judgments of the Lord "are true" and righteous altogether.
More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.Psalm 19 7-11
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
43,561
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#58
You have that wrong too. The elect is so great an amount that they can not be numbered (Gen 32:12). God is talking to Jacob, who he changed his name to be called Israel, (Gen 32:28), saying I will surly do you good and make thy seed as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude. The strait gate in Matt 5 is not talking about leading to eternal life, but to the abundant life that those of his elect have that have been revealed the truths of Jesus's doctrine. The wide gate are also the elect of God who have not been revealed the truth because they are going about to establish their own righteousness by their works. The people going in both gates are God's elect and will all go to heaven because Christ died for them.
One word accurately describes the above post........WRONG..............................!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
43,561
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#59
His view is wrong wrong wrong

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Both are NOT elect and only ONE way is to salvation.
i hate it when people attribute their clear false teaching to the Holy Ghost. Disgusting
I 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th that............ALL the above.....
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#60
GraceandTruth is in stage cage, no doubt, lol.

No offense.

Again, his assessment of Pelagianism in another thread is totally false, he needs to recant that and speak the truth. You made a mistake, admit it and go on. :)

Furthermore I see nothing in Scripture that states there will be more saved than lost. Of course it's a possibility, but according to Scripture it appears more are deceived and lost than are saved in my honest opinion.

What Scripture does teach is that those who are from Abraham, his offspring, will be as the sand on the sea shore, Genesis 22:17, that much is true. It does not say that all of these are spiritual offspring, or that all of them are saved, or that the saved of these will outnumber those lost; Romans 9:6-8.