Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

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Jul 8, 2018
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I see you have to add your OPINION to God's words so you can pretend it says what you want it to.
God does not like that.

uhhhhhhhhh.......I did not say "to be in Him", I said chosen BEFORE..........so your accusation is frivolous
Back to remedial reading class for YOU.

"just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him". Eph 1:4
Graceandtruth, You would't live in Tuscon, would you. Just wondering, we have a church assembly that meets there.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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In your post #765, you are still trying to stand on your assumption that "being sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" is actually receiving the Holy Spirit when it is not.
You really need to let go of your dogma. Throughout the pages of this thread you have backtracked and flip-flopped in order to uphold your doctrine which, when scrutinized through the lens of Scripture, does not hold up to the truth laid out in Scripture.

In your Post #760, you stated:

"After we have been revealed some truths by the Holy Spirit we learn that the Holy Spirit that we received in regeneration is the earnest (down payment - security)"

So on 11/24/2018 you claim that the Holy Spirit is received in regeneration and is the earnest.

And now, 11 days later (on 12/5/2018) you are claiming something different.


How can anyone have a serious, Scriptural discussion with you when you continuously make contradictory statements? How many times must we go over the same issues before you lay aside your error and simply believe what is written in Scripture?





ForestGreenCook said:
After receiving the Holy Spirit in regeneration (which is where we receive it according to Eph 2:5) we are then "sealed"=stamped, as an earnest=down payment, promise, until our redemption.
Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


According to Eph 1:13-14, the holy Spirit of promise which is received by the believer at the time he/she is born again is received one time. And the holy Spirit of promise is the arrabōn (the earnest, the down payment).

It's not a two-step process where we receive the holy Spirit of promise and then later are sealed with that same holy Spirit of promise. It's hear the word of truth, the gospel of salvation, then believe, then sealed with that holy Spirit of promise (which equals regeneration which equals being born again of holy Spirit).




ForestGreenCook said:
There is no believing before regeneration.
Again, Scripturally the word "regeneration" is the Greek word paliggenesía (from 3825 /pálin, "again" and 1078 /génesis, "birth, beginning") – properly, the coming of new birth because "born again"; regeneration.

Regeneration is "born again".

And, according to Eph 1:13, we hear the word of truth, the gospel of salvation, then we believe, then we are sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.




You are still stuck in unbelief with this scripture.
Your disagreeing with me does not equal me being "stuck in unbelief with this scripture".




 
Sep 28, 2015
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SPURGEON

You cannot vanquish a Calvinist
.You may think you can, but you cannot. The stones of the great doctrines so fit into each other that the more pressure there is applied to remove them, the more strenuously do they adhere. And you may mark that you cannot receive one of these doctrines without believing all.

:):cool::D:love:
 
Mar 23, 2016
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1 Corinthians 3:

7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
 
Jul 8, 2018
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You really need to let go of your dogma. Throughout the pages of this thread you have backtracked and flip-flopped in order to uphold your doctrine which, when scrutinized through the lens of Scripture, does not hold up to the truth laid out in Scripture.

In your Post #760, you stated:

"After we have been revealed some truths by the Holy Spirit we learn that the Holy Spirit that we received in regeneration is the earnest (down payment - security)"

So on 11/24/2018 you claim that the Holy Spirit is received in regeneration and is the earnest.

And now, 11 days later (on 12/5/2018) you are claiming something different.


How can anyone have a serious, Scriptural discussion with you when you continuously make contradictory statements? How many times must we go over the same issues before you lay aside your error and simply believe what is written in Scripture?






Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


According to Eph 1:13-14, the holy Spirit of promise which is received by the believer at the time he/she is born again is received one time. And the holy Spirit of promise is the arrabōn (the earnest, the down payment).

It's not a two-step process where we receive the holy Spirit of promise and then later are sealed with that same holy Spirit of promise. It's hear the word of truth, the gospel of salvation, then believe, then sealed with that holy Spirit of promise (which equals regeneration which equals being born again of holy Spirit).





Again, Scripturally the word "regeneration" is the Greek word paliggenesía (from 3825 /pálin, "again" and 1078 /génesis, "birth, beginning") – properly, the coming of new birth because "born again"; regeneration.

Regeneration is "born again".

And, according to Eph 1:13, we hear the word of truth, the gospel of salvation, then we believe, then we are sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.





Your disagreeing with me does not equal me being "stuck in unbelief with this scripture".
I will say it again, again and again, The natural man who cannot discern spiritual things and will not believe in spiritual things until God regenerates him which includes being born into a spiritual life by receiving the Holy Spirit which enables him to discern spiritual things. Spiritual believing cannot come before regeneration. It goes in this order; 1- Regeneration = given the ability to believe and receive spiritual things. 2-. Believing and receiving spiritual things. 3 - Coming unto a knowledge of the truth of the gospel, by increments, a precept upon precept, line upon line, a little here and a little there, increasing your faith. The natural man cannot discern spiritual things until he has been given the Holy Spirit that enables him to discern spiritual things and that does not come until he is regenerated. So, put your horse (regeneration) in front of your cart (believing).
 
You really need to let go of your dogma. Throughout the pages of this thread you have backtracked and flip-flopped in order to uphold your doctrine which, when scrutinized through the lens of Scripture, does not hold up to the truth laid out in Scripture.

In your Post #760, you stated:

"After we have been revealed some truths by the Holy Spirit we learn that the Holy Spirit that we received in regeneration is the earnest (down payment - security)"

So on 11/24/2018 you claim that the Holy Spirit is received in regeneration and is the earnest.

And now, 11 days later (on 12/5/2018) you are claiming something different.


How can anyone have a serious, Scriptural discussion with you when you continuously make contradictory statements? How many times must we go over the same issues before you lay aside your error and simply believe what is written in Scripture?






Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


According to Eph 1:13-14, the holy Spirit of promise which is received by the believer at the time he/she is born again is received one time. And the holy Spirit of promise is the arrabōn (the earnest, the down payment).

It's not a two-step process where we receive the holy Spirit of promise and then later are sealed with that same holy Spirit of promise. It's hear the word of truth, the gospel of salvation, then believe, then sealed with that holy Spirit of promise (which equals regeneration which equals being born again of holy Spirit).





Again, Scripturally the word "regeneration" is the Greek word paliggenesía (from 3825 /pálin, "again" and 1078 /génesis, "birth, beginning") – properly, the coming of new birth because "born again"; regeneration.

Regeneration is "born again".

And, according to Eph 1:13, we hear the word of truth, the gospel of salvation, then we believe, then we are sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.





Your disagreeing with me does not equal me being "stuck in unbelief with this scripture".

Romans 8 (complete Jewish Bible)
9 But you, you do not identify with your old nature but with the Spirit — PROVIDED the Spirit of God is living inside you, for anyone who doesn’t have the Spirit of the Messiah (spirit of adoption) doesn’t belong to him. 10 However, if the Messiah is in you, then, on the one hand, the body is dead because of sin; but, on the other hand, the Spirit is giving life because God considers you righteous. 11 And if the Spirit of the One who raised Yeshua from the dead is living in you, then the One who raised the Messiah Yeshua from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit living in you.
 
I will say it again, again and again, The natural man who cannot discern spiritual things and will not believe in spiritual things until God regenerates him which includes being born into a spiritual life by receiving the Holy Spirit which enables him to discern spiritual things. Spiritual believing cannot come before regeneration. It goes in this order; 1- Regeneration = given the ability to believe and receive spiritual things. 2-. Believing and receiving spiritual things. 3 - Coming unto a knowledge of the truth of the gospel, by increments, a precept upon precept, line upon line, a little here and a little there, increasing your faith. The natural man cannot discern spiritual things until he has been given the Holy Spirit that enables him to discern spiritual things and that does not come until he is regenerated. So, put your horse (regeneration) in front of your cart (believing).

Agree with ya, FGC! The "Spiritual Temple", we are building within ourselves, MUST be built, in a certain specific way, and a certain specific order, to be done correctly! :cool:
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Agree with ya, FGC! The "Spiritual Temple", we are building within ourselves, MUST be built, in a certain specific way, and a certain specific order, to be done correctly! :cool:
Agree with you.

But it can only be started in one way, Not many ways.

1. Penalty of sin must be removed (since the penalty of sin is death, that penalty must be paid for. This is called justification)
2. Person is born of God (regeneration)

3. Holy Spirit enters (the anointing of the HS) and begins a good work, (Sanctification) Which God will complete until the day of Christ.
 
Jul 8, 2018
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1 Corinthians 3:

7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
I am hoping you see 1 Cor 3:7-15 as I do, but I doubt that you do. Paul is speaking unto the church of God (the church that Jesus set up) telling them that they are still babes in Christ (regenerated, quickened together with Christ) and are lacking in the knowledge (meat of the gospel) of the truth of the gospel. Paul is doing what all preachers ought to be doing, and that is telling God's regenerated children the fullness of the gospel (meat of the gospel) thereby instructing them how God wants them to live their lives here on earth. The "foundation of the gospel" is Jesus Christ, the chief corner stone. Paul is reassuring them in verse 15 that even if their works do not survive the trial of fire they will suffer lose (of living that good and abundant life here on earth) but they will still be saved eternally.
 
Jul 8, 2018
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Agree with you.

But it can only be started in one way, Not many ways.

1. Penalty of sin must be removed (since the penalty of sin is death, that penalty must be paid for. This is called justification)
2. Person is born of God (regeneration)

3. Holy Spirit enters (the anointing of the HS) and begins a good work, (Sanctification) Which God will complete until the day of Christ.
The penalty of sin for those that he died for was painfully paid for by Jesus on the cross in covenant relationship for all of God's elect. Our justification was by the faithfulness of Jesus going to the cross (Gal 2:16).
 
Jul 8, 2018
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Tucson....close. I'm in O.V.
Interested in your assembly.
I have never attended there but most of the congregation that I attend in Snyder, Oklahoma has visited there. My cousin who attends where I do, has a brother-in-law that is a member in Tuscon. I will get the address of the church building in Tuscon from her and give it to you later. The pastor is Tim Janes and he usually visits us here in Snyder every year at our annual meeting which is Friday through Sunday.
 
Jul 8, 2018
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You really need to let go of your dogma. Throughout the pages of this thread you have backtracked and flip-flopped in order to uphold your doctrine which, when scrutinized through the lens of Scripture, does not hold up to the truth laid out in Scripture.

In your Post #760, you stated:

"After we have been revealed some truths by the Holy Spirit we learn that the Holy Spirit that we received in regeneration is the earnest (down payment - security)"

So on 11/24/2018 you claim that the Holy Spirit is received in regeneration and is the earnest.

And now, 11 days later (on 12/5/2018) you are claiming something different.


How can anyone have a serious, Scriptural discussion with you when you continuously make contradictory statements? How many times must we go over the same issues before you lay aside your error and simply believe what is written in Scripture?






Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


According to Eph 1:13-14, the holy Spirit of promise which is received by the believer at the time he/she is born again is received one time. And the holy Spirit of promise is the arrabōn (the earnest, the down payment).

It's not a two-step process where we receive the holy Spirit of promise and then later are sealed with that same holy Spirit of promise. It's hear the word of truth, the gospel of salvation, then believe, then sealed with that holy Spirit of promise (which equals regeneration which equals being born again of holy Spirit).





Again, Scripturally the word "regeneration" is the Greek word paliggenesía (from 3825 /pálin, "again" and 1078 /génesis, "birth, beginning") – properly, the coming of new birth because "born again"; regeneration.

Regeneration is "born again".

And, according to Eph 1:13, we hear the word of truth, the gospel of salvation, then we believe, then we are sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.





Your disagreeing with me does not equal me being "stuck in unbelief with this scripture".
I do agree with you that regeneration means being born again. Born from a natural birth into a spiritual birth.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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The penalty of sin for those that he died for was painfully paid for by Jesus on the cross in covenant relationship for all of God's elect. Our justification was by the faithfulness of Jesus going to the cross (Gal 2:16).
Yet we are not justified UNTIL we say yes to God. When he comes to offer us his gift of eternal life. I was not born saved, I was born lost. I was not saved until a point in my life..

If as you say justification was final at the cross. All who will be saved are born in a completley saved state, This is not what scripture says.
 
Agree with you.

But it can only be started in one way, Not many ways.

1. Penalty of sin must be removed (since the penalty of sin is death, that penalty must be paid for. This is called justification)
2. Person is born of God (regeneration)

3. Holy Spirit enters (the anointing of the HS) and begins a good work, (Sanctification) Which God will complete until the day of Christ.
I can't argue how you see things, EG! :)

All I can tell ya EG? And the only thing, that "fits", the way my "life in flesh" during this current earth/heaven age? And, that wasn't until I "took the bull by the horns", so to speak? aka "Jonah syndrome" When I was told that EVERYTHING I had learned about "Christian/Churchianity?" Was wrong!

Was that I was "chosen" by God, long before this present "foundation", or world/heaven age!

That I was created, and hard-wired, for "advanced spiritual warfare", at the highest governmental levels AGAINST the "prince of this world!" Which certainly includes the "spirit of anti-christ!" Also known as sheep killer! In my ongoing efforts in promoting our Heavenly Father's will, that ALL come unto repentance. This also includes those who's had the "wool pulled over their eyes!" As these? Are the toughest ones! These are the ones, that believe a lie! This also causes much contention.

I was "called" to be a disciple of Christ! And, that I am! My "higher Calling" is in serving He who sent Christ! The Ancient of Days, is His name! (y)(y)
 
Mar 14, 2011
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I can't argue how you see things, EG! :)

All I can tell ya EG? And the only thing, that "fits", the way my "life in flesh" during this current earth/heaven age? And, that wasn't until I "took the bull by the horns", so to speak? aka "Jonah syndrome" When I was told that EVERYTHING I had learned about "Christian/Churchianity?" Was wrong!

Was that I was "chosen" by God, long before this present "foundation", or world/heaven age!

That I was created, and hard-wired, for "advanced spiritual warfare", at the highest governmental levels AGAINST the "prince of this world!" Which certainly includes the "spirit of anti-christ!" Also known as sheep killer! In my ongoing efforts in promoting our Heavenly Father's will, that ALL come unto repentance. This also includes those who's had the "wool pulled over their eyes!" As these? Are the toughest ones! These are the ones, that believe a lie! This also causes much contention.

I was "called" to be a disciple of Christ! And, that I am! My "higher Calling" is in serving He who sent Christ! The Ancient of Days, is His name! (y)(y)
I agree with everything, But I am not sure about what I highlighted in red. I think I disagree with this.. God had to correct our wiring so to speak after we were saved so we can do this. Before we had no power to do this, because either the wires were cut, or miswired..
 
Sep 28, 2015
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I have never attended there but most of the congregation that I attend in Snyder, Oklahoma has visited there. My cousin who attends where I do, has a brother-in-law that is a member in Tuscon. I will get the address of the church building in Tuscon from her and give it to you later. The pastor is Tim Janes and he usually visits us here in Snyder every year at our annual meeting which is Friday through Sunday.
I found a Tim Janes as pastor of a Primitive Baptist, they are many miles away from me, and ....I am not Primitive Bap. My feet are ticklish. Anyway, God bless 'em.........any assembly that holds to the doctrines of grace is a blessing.
 
Jul 8, 2018
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I found a Tim Janes as pastor of a Primitive Baptist, they are many miles away from me, and ....I am not Primitive Bap. My feet are ticklish. Anyway, God bless 'em.........any assembly that holds to the doctrines of grace is a blessing.
May God bless you in your obedience to him and in your attempts to defend his Son's doctrine.
 
Jul 8, 2018
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Yet we are not justified UNTIL we say yes to God. When he comes to offer us his gift of eternal life. I was not born saved, I was born lost. I was not saved until a point in my life..

If as you say justification was final at the cross. All who will be saved are born in a completley saved state, This is not what scripture says.
All that Christ died for (which are only those his Father gave him) God considers "holy and without blame" (Eph 1). They were "saved eternally in a covenant relationship" on the cross. When those that Christ died for on the cross are born into this world by natural birth they are totally depraved and dead in sins until God regenerates them (which is receiving of that covenant salvation).
 
Mar 14, 2011
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All that Christ died for (which are only those his Father gave him) God considers "holy and without blame" (Eph 1). They were "saved eternally in a covenant relationship" on the cross. When those that Christ died for on the cross are born into this world by natural birth they are totally depraved and dead in sins until God regenerates them (which is receiving of that covenant salvation).
You can not have it both ways

You said they were justified on the cross, now your saying not util after we have been living for some time

Which is it?