Can a Christian lose their salvation? Unsure.

[newbirth]

well lets see. Every sin I ever commited, or will commit were in the future when God died, and said he paid my debt.. so you tell me?

also. every sin I ever commited or will commit were known by God the moment I got on my knees and asked for his mercy and forgiveness. He gave me his gift of salvation knowing everything i would do from that point forward. so you tell me.

and what is the fornication crap? you think that is worse in Gods eyes than the moment you decide you do not want to go to church because your too tired?

Thats your problem, you do not understand what sin is! or Who God is!

so God forgave you of all sins even those in the future...which means if you sin right this moment it was forgiven 2000 yrs ago...then how can that sin make you a sinner....and how can you claim to have a sin which is already forgiven...there is no way you can be charged for a sin....yet you say you have sins...it is either God lied to you or you are lying here on CC...a man who is forgiven all his debts even the future ones at Walmart can pick up anything he wants at any time and never be charged a dime...I did not ask if fornication is worst than not going to church.....I asked if God has already forgiven a man for the fornication he will commit tomorrow....????? a simple yes or no will do

what do you think the term justified means, it means declared righteous, innocent, Justification is a gift of God, not earned by your work of confessing every time.

Do you think God thinks you are more special because you confess some sin (yet deny all your other sins)

I do not go beg God to forgiveness, I come to the throne of grace and admit my error. I come to my abba father. who loves me, I stand up for my sin, and take my chastening that I deserve.

you are declared right and all your sins are forgiven even those in the future....so what sins are you standing up for??? those that are already forgiven... if you are forgiven for a sin and still have to be chasten for it ...I think you are being double charged.....that is an injustice....by any standard...

God said no one is sinless. And God said through John if we claim we are. we are decieved and there is no truth in us (or anyone who claims this)

and you said all sins are forgiven....so now he takkes away all my sins past present and future and I cannot say I have no sin else I lied which is a sin he probably forgot to forgive...or did he forgave me for that lie so it is no more a sin........?????

do you think you fool God when you sin? that God just sits there and says, wow I did not see that happen. That is a grave error, he sinned, how dare him, I must take my free gift away now. Make it be known he is no longer in my family!

at the moment I don't know what to think...because why would one try to fool God when they sin , seeing that,that sin was forgiven 2000 yrs ago....there is now no penalty for sin because all has been forgiven

 

[newbirth]

see, you do not understand.

When God looks at you he does not see you in what you have already done, as David said, he knows you from life to death, in fact he knew you before you were even born.

in your example, the 100,000 dollar mortgage was all you would ever ow your whole life, from birth to death. it is your final debt against God, and sum total of all you have ever done. or will do.

now either that debt was paid by God on the cross. and it is forgiven, or you try to pay it yourself (which you can't because you are broke and have no resources to pay one penny, let alone the whole debt)

when God saves you (he claimed he saved you before time began) he saved you based on this foreknowledge,

why do you insist on making God like a man, who is not all knowing?

so then he cannot charge you again for a sin he already forgive you for...or chastise you for it since it has already been paid for...and what ever sin you may commit he already knew you would do it ...so why resist the temptation to sin....it is not going to hurt you since it has been paid for already...as a matter of fact trying not to sin would be like robbing God of his ability to forgive...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

so God forgave you of all sins even those in the future...which means if you sin right this moment it was forgiven 2000 yrs ago...then how can that sin make you a sinner....and how can you claim to have a sin which is already forgiven...there is no way you can be charged for a sin....yet you say you have sins...it is either God lied to you or you are lying here on CC...a man who is forgiven all his debts even the future ones at Walmart can pick up anything he wants at any time and never be charged a dime...I did not ask if fornication is worst than not going to church.....I asked if God has already forgiven a man for the fornication he will commit tomorrow....????? a simple yes or no will do






you are declared right and all your sins are forgiven even those in the future....so what sins are you standing up for??? those that are already forgiven... if you are forgiven for a sin and still have to be chasten for it ...I think you are being double charged.....that is an injustice....by any standard...
and you said all sins are forgiven....so now he takkes away all my sins past present and future and I cannot say I have no sin else I lied which is a sin he probably forgot to forgive...or did he forgave me for that lie so it is no more a sin........?????


at the moment I don't know what to think...because why would one try to fool God when they sin , seeing that,that sin was forgiven 2000 yrs ago....there is now no penalty for sin because all has been forgiven

How can God predestine me to be his child BEFORE time began, if he did not know everything I would ever do? Are you saying God just chose me of some random action not knowing anything about me? (like the calvanist)

Why do you deny the omniscience of God?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

so then he cannot charge you again for a sin he already forgive you for...or chastise you for it since it has already been paid for...and what ever sin you may commit he already knew you would do it ...so why resist the temptation to sin....it is not going to hurt you since it has been paid for already...as a matter of fact trying not to sin would be like robbing God of his ability to forgive...

news flash, God chastens those who are his.

One must be his in order to be chastened, he does not chasten those who are not his, they can sin all they desire, and God will not do a thing to them (except at the end, when he condemns those who reject his grace)

do you even listen to yourself? first you claim God is NOT omniscient, now your claiming he is not able to chasten one for sin.

chastening of sin does not pay an eternal debt, only blood can.

 

[dcontroversal]

How can God predestine me to be his child BEFORE time began, if he did not know everything I would ever do? Are you saying God just chose me of some random action not knowing anything about me? (like the calvanist)

Why do you deny the omniscience of God?

They cannot comprehend the truth of the following...

1. Every sin (except unbelief into Jesus) is covered under the blood of Christ
2. The condemnation of God continually rests upon those who have not trusted into the perfect faith of Jesus
3. The condemnation of the law is removed from those who actually trust Christ void of works/water/self etc.
4. God knew exactly who would have genuine faith and those who would not
5. He chose before the casting down of the world to actually SAVE ETERNALLY those who exercise genuine faith
6. While still having the full right to whip those children and chastise those children who sin after biblical salvation yet they still remain sons and daughters of the God of heaven.

Just to name a few things....!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They cannot comprehend the truth of the following...

1. Every sin (except unbelief into Jesus) is covered under the blood of Christ
2. The condemnation of God continually rests upon those who have not trusted into the perfect faith of Jesus
3. The condemnation of the law is removed from those who actually trust Christ void of works/water/self etc.
4. God knew exactly who would have genuine faith and those who would not
5. He chose before the casting down of the world to actually SAVE ETERNALLY those who exercise genuine faith
6. While still having the full right to whip those children and chastise those children who sin after biblical salvation yet they still remain sons and daughters of the God of heaven.

Just to name a few things....!

Pride will not allow them to see. they have to be humbled first. before they can come to Christ, that is why Satan's lie is so good. It allows people to think they are saved, without being torn down to nothing. they can keep their pride, keep their sin, and God will still love them.

 

[BradC]

Any salvation that can be lost or stolen from us, through sin or getting off track in the will of God, is not eternal salvation and has no place in the believer's life. Once we are saved and placed in Christ, that is our dwelling place. We made do good or bad in that place, but we are never removed or placed outside of it. We did not put ourselves in that place, God did, and we can not be moved from that place (Acts 20:25, Psalm 16:8, 62:2,6, 90:1, Prov 24:15).

 

[newbirth]

How can God predestine me to be his child BEFORE time began, if he did not know everything I would ever do? Are you saying God just chose me of some random action not knowing anything about me? (like the calvanist)

Why do you deny the omniscience of God?

you did not answer the question...I asked nothing about being predestine and did not deny omniscience...you are dodging the question.....I did not ask if fornication is worst than not going to church.....I asked if God has already forgiven a man for the fornication he will commit tomorrow....????? a simple yes or no will do

 

[newbirth]

news flash, God chastens those who are his.

One must be his in order to be chastened, he does not chasten those who are not his, they can sin all they desire, and God will not do a thing to them (except at the end, when he condemns those who reject his grace)

do you even listen to yourself? first you claim God is NOT omniscient, now your claiming he is not able to chasten one for sin.

chastening of sin does not pay an eternal debt, only blood can.

you just claimed all your sins are already forgiven so what is God chastising you for??? something he already forgive you for...we are not talking about those who are not his....so the question does God forgive you for a sin and still punish you for that sin????

 

[newbirth]

Any salvation that can be lost or stolen from us, through sin or getting off track in the will of God, is not eternal salvation and has no place in the believer's life. Once we are saved and placed in Christ, that is our dwelling place. We made do good or bad in that place, but we are never removed or placed outside of it. We did not put ourselves in that place, God did, and we can not be moved from that place (Acts 20:25, Psalm 16:8, 62:2,6, 90:1, Prov 24:15).

does that cover disobedience too...???.are you saying there is sin in Christ?? if there is sin in Christ and there is sin out of Christ what is the difference between in Christ and out Christ..just your say so ?????
Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[notuptome]

you just claimed all your sins are already forgiven so what is God chastising you for??? something he already forgive you for...we are not talking about those who are not his....so the question does God forgive you for a sin and still punish you for that sin????

Your lack of understanding is obvious. Why does the husbandman prune back the vine? So it will produce more fruit.

For the believer it is not about eternal salvation but about sanctification in this life. A good testimony for our Savior that men will be drawn to Him because of what they see in us.

Hebrews tell us if we have no chastening then we are not sons. Whom the Father loveth He chasteneth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[newbirth]

They cannot comprehend the truth of the following...

1. Every sin (except unbelief into Jesus) is covered under the blood of Christ
2. The condemnation of God continually rests upon those who have not trusted into the perfect faith of Jesus
3. The condemnation of the law is removed from those who actually trust Christ void of works/water/self etc.
4. God knew exactly who would have genuine faith and those who would not
5. He chose before the casting down of the world to actually SAVE ETERNALLY those who exercise genuine faith
6. While still having the full right to whip those children and chastise those children who sin after biblical salvation yet they still remain sons and daughters of the God of heaven.

Just to name a few things....!

if every sin ...(except unbelief) is covered....paid for.. the children who sin after biblical salvation...are those sin already forgiven...or do they need forgiveness for those sins...EG says those sins are already forgiven ....my contention is if God forgive you of a sin and say he will remember it no more ...why is he punishing you for it??? do you agree with EG???

 

[newbirth]

Your lack of understanding is obvious. Why does the husbandman prune back the vine? So it will produce more fruit.

For the believer it is not about eternal salvation but about sanctification in this life. A good testimony for our Savior that men will be drawn to Him because of what they see in us.

Hebrews tell us if we have no chastening then we are not sons. Whom the Father loveth He chasteneth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

yes may be I do lack understand....so help me by answering yes or no.....
you just claimed all your sins are already forgiven so what is God chastising you for??? something he already forgive you for...we are not talking about those who are not his....so the question is.... does God forgive you for a sin and still punish you for that sin???

 

[notuptome]

yes may be I do lack understand....so help me by answering yes or no.....
you just claimed all your sins are already forgiven so what is God chastising you for??? something he already forgive you for...we are not talking about those who are not his....so the question is.... does God forgive you for a sin and still punish you for that sin???

You do not understand because you do not want to understand. God chastises His children for their own good. That they can bring forth more fruit. That their testimony for Christ my shine all the brighter. That they can know more of the joy Christ desires to give to them.

As long as we are in this vile body of flesh we will sin. The spirit is perfected and sealed unto the day of redemption but while we sojourn here in this body on this earth we must deal with the weakness of the flesh. Again the strength of God is perfected in our weakness.

When a little child is told not to run into the street and they disobey do we punish them with death or the rod of correction? If we fail to punish them they will certainly run into the street until they are destroyed by a passing car. If we love them we correct them. Correction is chastisement not condemnation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[BradC]

does that cover disobedience too...???.are you saying there is sin in Christ?? if there is sin in Christ and there is sin out of Christ what is the difference between in Christ and out Christ..just your say so ?????
Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

You have it in your head that if a believer is having a problem with sin that eternal salvation for him is at risk. If God ordained certain circumstances in your life he could put you in a place that just might get you to give place to the things of the flesh and reveal what is in your heart that he wants to deliver you from. A saved believer never lost his flesh, nor his sin nature, his sick head or his deceitful and desperately wicked heart. As believer they are all there. Christ crucified them positionally so that we could serve him by faith obedience to the word and Spirit but he never removed them experiencially from the believer.

We have to trust in the cross of Christ and all that it has crucified. Every believer no matter how much they have grown in Christ has the potential to disobey, to omit things that he has been instructed to do, to live in the flesh through sin and isolated weaknesses and to wander off and be lead astray as a sheep of the flock. It happens as much as we would like it not to happen. We fail God's test and the trials of our faith but we get up again, respond to God by faith and go on without condemnation. We are perfect and complete in Christ positionally but we are going onto perfection in our experience. We lack things that we need and fail in the process of getting those things but God uses our failures, weaknesses and frailties to draw us to himself and gives us an abundance of grace to get them. Now that's a plan, GOD'S PLAN.

 

[1joseph]

"Heavenly Father, I don't always know how to pray. But I ask, if it be Thy will, to not let any of your children be lost to you. In Jesus' name I pray. Amen."

Our Father,
Which art in Heaven,
Hallowed be Thy name.
Thy Kingdom come,
Thy will be done,
On earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
Forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive those who trespass against us.
Lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil.
For Thine is the Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory,
For ever and ever.
Amen.​

 

[Anomaly1964]

Nope...
and
Nope...

 

[newbirth]

You do not understand because you do not want to understand. God chastises His children for their own good. That they can bring forth more fruit. That their testimony for Christ my shine all the brighter. That they can know more of the joy Christ desires to give to them.

As long as we are in this vile body of flesh we will sin. The spirit is perfected and sealed unto the day of redemption but while we sojourn here in this body on this earth we must deal with the weakness of the flesh. Again the strength of God is perfected in our weakness.

When a little child is told not to run into the street and they disobey do we punish them with death or the rod of correction? If we fail to punish them they will certainly run into the street until they are destroyed by a passing car. If we love them we correct them. Correction is chastisement not condemnation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

still not answering the question.....do you tell your child you forgive them and still punish them????

 

[newbirth]

You have it in your head that if a believer is having a problem with sin that eternal salvation for him is at risk. If God ordained certain circumstances in your life he could put you in a place that just might get you to give place to the things of the flesh and reveal what is in your heart that he wants to deliver you from. A saved believer never lost his flesh, nor his sin nature, his sick head or his deceitful and desperately wicked heart. As believer they are all there. Christ crucified them positionally so that we could serve him by faith obedience to the word and Spirit but he never removed them experiencially from the believer.

then what is he saved from???are you all of those things??? I can assure you that you are not in Christ with those qualities.....

We have to trust in the cross of Christ and all that it has crucified. Every believer no matter how much they have grown in Christ has the potential to disobey, to omit things that he has been instructed to do, to live in the flesh through sin and isolated weaknesses and to wander off and be lead astray as a sheep of the flock. It happens as much as we would like it not to happen. We fail God's test and the trials of our faith but we get up again, respond to God by faith and go on without condemnation. We are perfect and complete in Christ positionally but we are going onto perfection in our experience. We lack things that we need and fail in the process of getting those things but God uses our failures, weaknesses and frailties to draw us to himself and gives us an abundance of grace to get them. Now that's a plan, GOD'S PLAN.

that is a mad plan....
did you get power to become a son of God???
do you have the HS in you???? Have you not read 2Peter 1??

2 Peter 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

[SUP]11 [/SUP]For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;

 

[BradC]

then what is he saved from???are you all of those things??? I can assure you that you are not in Christ with those qualities.....



that is a mad plan....
did you get power to become a son of God???
do you have the HS in you???? Have you not read 2Peter 1??

2 Peter 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

[SUP]11 [/SUP]For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;

The message that Peter preached in those scriptures is exactly what a backslider or anyone who is weak in the faith needs to hear. They need to be built up in Christ and this is the kind of message that God would want them to hear so that he might lift them up. Faith looks at things that are not as though they were and gives an abundance of grace to get the believer to that place. We are to bestow more abundant honor on those whom seem less honorable. We are to grow together in Christ. The hand can not say to the foot I have no need of you. We are to esteem one another and condescend to men of low estate, that is how we build one another up in Christ. The ministry of grace will always give what others do not deserve to create a capacity for faith so that a believer who is weak in the faith will not be offended but rather grow in that grace. This is the kind of ministry we are to have to one another, putting Christ between us and seeing the believe as complete in Him.