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What bible are you using?
This is what I find for the above verses in the King James Version (KJV) and the New International Version (NIV).
John 6:44-45 King James Version (KJV)[SUP]44 [/SUP]No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day (not "lost", as you say).
[SUP]45 [/SUP]It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
John 6:44-45 New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]44 [/SUP]“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. [SUP]45 [/SUP]It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’[SUP][a][/SUP] Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
1 Peter 1:5 King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1 Peter 1:5 New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
Hebrews 7:25 King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Hebrews 7:25 New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Therefore he is able to save completely[SUP][a][/SUP] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.
How convenient of you to stick the word "conditionally" in the middle of scripture and add your own words at the tail end of verses like is actually part of scripture. This is deceitful and wicked! Now who is wasting their time trying to tempt?
Jn 6:44,45 those that are drawn "cometh unto Me" verse 45 and if one quits the conditional coming to Christ he can be lost
1 Pet 1:5 one is kept by the power of God conditionally through faith. If one quits believing , casts off his faith he is no longer kept.
Heb 7:25 God saves all that conditionally come to Him, if one quits coming to Him he can be lost.
This is what I find for the above verses in the King James Version (KJV) and the New International Version (NIV).
John 6:44-45 King James Version (KJV)[SUP]44 [/SUP]No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day (not "lost", as you say).
[SUP]45 [/SUP]It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
John 6:44-45 New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]44 [/SUP]“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. [SUP]45 [/SUP]It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’[SUP][a][/SUP] Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
1 Peter 1:5 King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1 Peter 1:5 New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
Hebrews 7:25 King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Hebrews 7:25 New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Therefore he is able to save completely[SUP][a][/SUP] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.
How convenient of you to stick the word "conditionally" in the middle of scripture and add your own words at the tail end of verses like is actually part of scripture. This is deceitful and wicked! Now who is wasting their time trying to tempt?
Jn 6:44,45 those that are drawn "cometh unto Me" verse 45 and if one quits the conditional coming to Christ he can be lost
1 Pet 1:5 one is kept by the power of God conditionally through faith. If one quits believing , casts off his faith he is no longer kept.
Heb 7:25 God saves all that conditionally come to Him, if one quits coming to Him he can be lost.
Now you have it right... "god" with a little "g".
Your original post here had a capital "G": "Do you think satan is real? that he is a real entity? Do you think him an idiot? He is called the God of this world for a reason, he is great at what he does."
Was this an oversight, the capital "G"?
I had forgotten he was also referred to as the "god of this world", as well as the "prince of this world".
Thanks for the reminder.
While it is True for the most part that God does not see one sin greater than another, there are certain sins that are different in some cases.
There are three different types of sin
1) Sins unto Death = Those that are knowingly and willingly committed
2) Sins not unto Death = Those that are NOT knowingly and willingly committed
3) Sins not forgiven unto man = Blaspheme of the Holy Ghost
Also would like to point out there a 7 sins that God hates and specifically tells which ones they are.
But you are right for the most part all sin is equal in God's eyes. For example someone who steals a car, compared with someone who steals a pencil from his/her work. Both have disobeyed God. The one is not greater than the other, even though man deems one a greater sin than the other.
^i^
There are three different types of sin
1) Sins unto Death = Those that are knowingly and willingly committed
2) Sins not unto Death = Those that are NOT knowingly and willingly committed
3) Sins not forgiven unto man = Blaspheme of the Holy Ghost
Also would like to point out there a 7 sins that God hates and specifically tells which ones they are.
But you are right for the most part all sin is equal in God's eyes. For example someone who steals a car, compared with someone who steals a pencil from his/her work. Both have disobeyed God. The one is not greater than the other, even though man deems one a greater sin than the other.
^i^
E
as James says,
if you break the least of the law. you found guilty of the whole law
what is the penalty of breaking the law? Death.
a liar is just as condemned as a murderer.
there is only one unpardonable sin, that is blasphemy of the spirit (rejection of the gospel)
your using terms.
I can get drunk, drive home and get lucky and live
I can get drunk, and die on my way home (I commited a sin which lead to death)
both sins were the same.
if you break the least of the law. you found guilty of the whole law
what is the penalty of breaking the law? Death.
a liar is just as condemned as a murderer.
there is only one unpardonable sin, that is blasphemy of the spirit (rejection of the gospel)
your using terms.
I can get drunk, drive home and get lucky and live
I can get drunk, and die on my way home (I commited a sin which lead to death)
both sins were the same.
i do all things to please Jesus Christ, i do not knowingly or willingly commit any sin against my Savior and Lord. i abhor sin. Have i sinned? Most certainly probably more then you all. i am not saying "i have no sin" for i HAVE sinned plenty. But just because i have sinned, and have sin, does not mean i continue to sin.
There is no temptation that comes upon you that you can't cease from, Jesus makes sure two things that satan is limited by, Jesus makes sure that the temptation is not so great that you can't escape it. He also allows, with every temptation, a way out of the temptation that you will not comply and do that sin. Therefore the trick is to ALWAYS look to Him when you are tempted, Look for the path out and you will find it. Are you saying it is impossible to NOT sin? Why does Jesus tell us then that with every temptation He allows a path out of it, and it is not so great you can't escape it.
God told me one time, and it hit me like a ton of bricks falling on me, He said
"There is no sin that you do that you can't cease from."
Think about that for a moment, it is absolutely True, therefore the big question is "Why are you not ceasing from them?" It is that very reason that you will have to give account for on Judgment Day, when you stand before Him, and He asks you, "Why did you not cease from them?"
Eternal life in Heaven with the Father and His Son is worth giving up sin in this life.
i myself have no life, i only walk to please Him, not self. He bought me with a price. He laid down His life for me, i in return have laid my life down for Him, i only do those things that are pleasing in His eyes. i do not knowingly and willingly commit sin.
^i^
There is no temptation that comes upon you that you can't cease from, Jesus makes sure two things that satan is limited by, Jesus makes sure that the temptation is not so great that you can't escape it. He also allows, with every temptation, a way out of the temptation that you will not comply and do that sin. Therefore the trick is to ALWAYS look to Him when you are tempted, Look for the path out and you will find it. Are you saying it is impossible to NOT sin? Why does Jesus tell us then that with every temptation He allows a path out of it, and it is not so great you can't escape it.
God told me one time, and it hit me like a ton of bricks falling on me, He said
"There is no sin that you do that you can't cease from."
Think about that for a moment, it is absolutely True, therefore the big question is "Why are you not ceasing from them?" It is that very reason that you will have to give account for on Judgment Day, when you stand before Him, and He asks you, "Why did you not cease from them?"
Eternal life in Heaven with the Father and His Son is worth giving up sin in this life.
i myself have no life, i only walk to please Him, not self. He bought me with a price. He laid down His life for me, i in return have laid my life down for Him, i only do those things that are pleasing in His eyes. i do not knowingly and willingly commit sin.
^i^
E
if you believe this, you are deceived.
every time you decide to do something for self, you are in sin. And I venture to say. many times you willfully do this, and chose to do this.
if you could see yourself in Gods eyes right now. You would be horrified at how many times you do that every day.
The problem with legalism is it looks on the outside, It can not see the inside, or it is blinded to it (willfully) just like the pharisees were.
DiscipleDave said
Brother none of these verses contradict what i have said, i have said that satan is the God of this world, that is True and is also what Scriptures teach, am i teaching something contrary to Scriptures? no i am not.
Yes he is the Prince of the World AS WELL, he is also the King of this World, he is also called THE FATHER OF LIES, and here is a list of all the things He is called with the Scripture references
Abaddon Rev 9:11
Accuser rev 12:10
Adversary 1 pet 5:8
Angel of light 2 Cor 11:14
Anointed covering Cherub Ezekiel 28:14
Antichrist i john 4:3
Apollyon Rev 9:11
Beast Rev 14:9-10
Beelzebub Matt 12:24
Belial 2 Cor 6:15
Deceiver Rev 12:9
Devil 1 JOhn 3:8
Dragon Rev 12:9
Enemy Matt 13:39
Evil one John 17:15
Father of lies John 8:44
God of this age 2 Cor 4:4
King of Babylon Isaiah 14:4
King of the bottomless pit Rev 9:11
King of Tyre Ezekiel 28:12
Lawless one 2 Thess 2:8-10
Leviathan Isaiah 27:1
Liar John 8:44
Little horn Daniel 8:9-11
Lucifer Isaiah 14:12-14
Man of sin 2 Thess 2:3-4
Murderer John 8:44
Power of darkness Col 1:13-14
Prince of the power of the air Ephesians 2:1-2
Roaring lion 1 Pet 5:8
Rulers of the darkness Eph 6:12
Ruler of demons Luke 11:15
Ruler of this world John 12:31-32
Satan Mark 1:13
Serpent of old Rev 12:9
Son of perdition Thess 2:3-4
Star rev 9:1
Tempter Matt 4:3
Thief John 10:10
Wicked one Eph 6:16
And because i say he is the God of this world, and i ask you to give me verses which contradict what i have said, and you give me verses which call satan Prince of this world. This is not in any way showing a verse that contradicts that satan is the God of this world. satan has many names. God of this world is one of them, Prince of this world is another, King is another.
So then by saying that satan is the God of this world, is still correct. NOT that i think i am correct, but i know the Scriptures are correct. i do not say that satan is the God of this world, The Scriptures teach he is the God of this world, if you do not believe that, you do not believe the Scriptures which says he is the God of this world. So then you do not disagree with me, but with the Word of God.
The Word of God teaches that satan is the God of this world. Do you believe that verse or no? If you do not believe that verse, then how many other verses have you disregarded, made void, or interpret away?
i was told this by God one day
"If what you believe contradicts even one verse in My Word, then what you believe is wrong" Wow, and this is so TRUE.
And as to your remark Surely you can reveal to us what it is that i have said that you now accuse me of being described in Jude 1:4 ?
Does a person call another a thief, without revealing what they have stolen?
Is a person put in prison without being charged.
If then you accuse me of being like Jude 1:4 Surely you can tell WHY you think this, else is it said to just throwing mud, or slandering me without a cause. If you accuse me of MAYBE being like Jude 1:4 then do the Godly thing and tell me WHY you think that i am like that described in Jude 1:4
^i^
Yes he is the Prince of the World AS WELL, he is also the King of this World, he is also called THE FATHER OF LIES, and here is a list of all the things He is called with the Scripture references
Abaddon Rev 9:11
Accuser rev 12:10
Adversary 1 pet 5:8
Angel of light 2 Cor 11:14
Anointed covering Cherub Ezekiel 28:14
Antichrist i john 4:3
Apollyon Rev 9:11
Beast Rev 14:9-10
Beelzebub Matt 12:24
Belial 2 Cor 6:15
Deceiver Rev 12:9
Devil 1 JOhn 3:8
Dragon Rev 12:9
Enemy Matt 13:39
Evil one John 17:15
Father of lies John 8:44
God of this age 2 Cor 4:4
King of Babylon Isaiah 14:4
King of the bottomless pit Rev 9:11
King of Tyre Ezekiel 28:12
Lawless one 2 Thess 2:8-10
Leviathan Isaiah 27:1
Liar John 8:44
Little horn Daniel 8:9-11
Lucifer Isaiah 14:12-14
Man of sin 2 Thess 2:3-4
Murderer John 8:44
Power of darkness Col 1:13-14
Prince of the power of the air Ephesians 2:1-2
Roaring lion 1 Pet 5:8
Rulers of the darkness Eph 6:12
Ruler of demons Luke 11:15
Ruler of this world John 12:31-32
Satan Mark 1:13
Serpent of old Rev 12:9
Son of perdition Thess 2:3-4
Star rev 9:1
Tempter Matt 4:3
Thief John 10:10
Wicked one Eph 6:16
And because i say he is the God of this world, and i ask you to give me verses which contradict what i have said, and you give me verses which call satan Prince of this world. This is not in any way showing a verse that contradicts that satan is the God of this world. satan has many names. God of this world is one of them, Prince of this world is another, King is another.
So then by saying that satan is the God of this world, is still correct. NOT that i think i am correct, but i know the Scriptures are correct. i do not say that satan is the God of this world, The Scriptures teach he is the God of this world, if you do not believe that, you do not believe the Scriptures which says he is the God of this world. So then you do not disagree with me, but with the Word of God.
The Word of God teaches that satan is the God of this world. Do you believe that verse or no? If you do not believe that verse, then how many other verses have you disregarded, made void, or interpret away?
i was told this by God one day
"If what you believe contradicts even one verse in My Word, then what you believe is wrong" Wow, and this is so TRUE.
And as to your remark Surely you can reveal to us what it is that i have said that you now accuse me of being described in Jude 1:4 ?
Does a person call another a thief, without revealing what they have stolen?
Is a person put in prison without being charged.
If then you accuse me of being like Jude 1:4 Surely you can tell WHY you think this, else is it said to just throwing mud, or slandering me without a cause. If you accuse me of MAYBE being like Jude 1:4 then do the Godly thing and tell me WHY you think that i am like that described in Jude 1:4
^i^
notice they are NOT sanctified already, but are being sanctified.
perfected is an ongoing thing. NOT something that is automatic. It is written Therefore be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect, This is something you DO, it is NOT automatic.
And when Paul is running the race, He has not the prize because he is not yet at the end of the race. Many people of this last days generation think they have the prize already (Salvation) and that they are guaranteed the prize as soon as they decide to start running the race. When a person accepts Jesus Christ, it is that very moment they start the race, they have joined the race. But just because many start the race does not mean they will not decide to step out of the race. Those who endure to the end of this race, will receive eternal Life, will receive the prize of Salvation, not that we already have Salvation, it is what we strive to attain at the end of the race. Salvation is when a person receives his immortal glorified body, when we become like Jesus is, like the Angels are. That is when a person is Truly SAVED. Judgement Day is the Day that decides who is SAVED and who is not SAVED. Anyone can claim they are SAVED, does not mean on Judgment Day they will be SAVED
You misunderstand the entire chapter of Romans 7. Paul was a very religious pharisee before Jesus Christ came into his life. The whole of Romans Chapter 7 is a description of Paul's religious life BEFORE he knew Christ. That is why Paul says at the end of Romans 7 who can help this wretched man that i am, wretched because of what he just got done describing in Romans Chapter 7, then he says Jesus Christ can help him not be like he just described in Romans chapter 7. That is why in the very next Chapter first verse says
Rom 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Who receives no condemnation ? Those who DO NOT walk after the desires of their flesh, but to those who walk after the Spirit. So then anyone who fulfills the desires of the flesh, are still under condemnation. Those who love to sin and are not willing to cease from them use Romans Chapter 7 as an excuse for their own personal walk.
Rom Chapter 7 Pauls religious walk before Christ
Rom Chapter 8 Pauls walk in Jesus Christ
Those who know the Truth and hear His voice, knows that Romans chapter 8 is how a True Christian is to live. Those who continue in sin and can't cease from them, will always use Romans Chapter 7 as an excuse why they can't cease from sinning.
This type of things happens to those who are still on milk of the Word, not very spiritual. When a person is focused on how much they have lost, what they have given up, they are still carnal. Those who know the Truth and see the big picture, know that all is vanity, friends vanity, job vanity, spouse vanity, life vanity. All trivial. The only thing that is important in this life, is "where are you going to spend eternity?" Being concerned about what other people think, or what loses you have incurred, is vanity
The easy way is to accept Jesus Christ as your Savior and Lord, and you are SAVED forever, and there is nothing you can do to lose it. THAT IS THE EASY WAY.
Tell me if a person heals another in the name of Jesus Christ and that person is healed, is that person SAVED?
If a person casts out a demon in the name of Jesus Christ and the demon flees, is that person SAVED?
If a person does many miracles in the name of Jesus Christ and Jesus is glorified, is that person SAVED?
Yet Jesus at the end of the race will say to them, i never knew you because you choose to live in sin. Tell me something. These people cast out demons in the name of Jesus Christ, did many miracles in the His name, and did many wonderful works in the name of Jesus. What have you done in the name of Jesus Christ? Have you cast out demons in His name, have you performed miracles in His name, have you done many wonderful things in the name of Jesus Christ? these people who DID do these things are cast out of the kingdom because of their sins. You who have not done these great things in His Name, but still continues to live in sin, How are you not going to suffer the same fate as those who DID MORE in His Name, then you have done?
i will tell you the Truth, sin is evil, it is wicked, it is against God, those who choose to obey satan and knowingly and willingly commit sins, choose who their master is. They can claim with their mouths all they want to claim "I'm Saved", "I'm under Grace", "I'm under the blood", "Once Saved Always Saved" will not, i repeat WILL NOT gain them access to Eternal life if they continue to choose to knowingly and willingly commit sins AGAINST Jesus Christ. All sin is against Jesus Christ. Jesus is the light, sin is darkness. What fellowship hath light with darkness? NONE.
Those who sin continually are the color black
Those who do not sin are the color of white.
Those who are white are the few who get accepted into the Kingdom of Heaven
Those who are black are the few who go to Hell for all eternity
Those who are GREY are they that do righteousness (white) and unrighteousness (sin, black) they are MANY.
Jesus said it well with the parable of the Tree.
A good tree (True Christian) does not produce any bad fruits (sin)
If a good tree produces a bad fruit, that is not a good tree at all, because of the bad fruit that they themselves produced. So this generation can yell to the top of their lungs they are a good tree, but if they produce bad fruits, they are NOT a good tree but a bad one. A good tree does not produce any bad fruits, it is a good tree not because of the tree itself, but because Jesus helps the tree to only produce good fruits.
i will tell you the Truth, anyone who loves to sin, will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, their heart is not right in God, because they love to sin. Those who knowingly and willlingly commit sin, love to sin, else they would not sin. Learn to hate sin and despise it, and get sin out of your life, at all cost, Eternity depends on it.
Awake to righteousness and sin not, for some have not this knowledge and i speak this to your shame.
Please i pray that you will visit the website below, and read what has been given to me by God.
it is apparent you did not read my article called Faith, Works, or Both
Because if you did, you would not be now accusing me of believing Works is enough.
Seriously, this is a description of me? Careful blaspheme of the Holy Ghost is not forgiven unto men, and it does not matter if you claim to be SAVED. Do not call that which is good evil, it is unforgivable. i am good, i have not tried to tell you to do anything but to obey God and what the Word of God says and teaches, am i evil because i tell you the Truth. i teach against sin, you say i am bad. i have not one time said anything about myself, but 100% of the time say it is Jesus in me who does these things, i have not spoken of myself even one time, if i have then show where i have gave myself credit, or in any way self righteous? You can't because i haven't, this is just lashing out because you are upset that i am teaching things that you do not agree with, or maybe you have believed all your life, to finally hear the Truth, well that tends to upset people and they lash out and thrown mud, which you have done in your above statement.
Did Jesus love the very people who beat Him, and disagreed with Him, Even if i am wrong and you disagree with me, where is the love for me, where is the witness of Jesus in you, you throw mud at me, for what? What you said above is it said in love or anger?
DiscipleDave said Which is easier to live life not sinning
or
live life sinning and still thinking your Heaven Bound.
You say i am teaching easy Christianity. What i teach is not easy at all, it is very difficult. What you teach, that a Saved person can't lose their SALVATION no matter what they do, how is that not easier? i teach to stop sinning against Jesus Christ, you teach that if you continue to live in sin you are still going to Heaven, because you are SAVED. How is that not easier that what i teach?
DiscipleDave said ^i^
i believe i will did one day, therefore i must fear death? Is that what you are implying by saying that above? i can lose my Salvation, i do not fear that i will. i can lose my life, i do not fear death. i can get in an accident in my car, does that mean i fear getting in to an accident every time i drive? Do you see how silly that is. i know i can lose my Salvation, i do not fear losing it. You see. knowing that i can lose it. i guard it all the more. i protect it even more. i do not fear losing it, because my thoughts are on it continually every second of the day. When Peter walked on water, he was doing that which is impossible to do, How did he do it? He walked on water because his thoughts were on Jesus Christ, so as soon as he looked away from Jesus Christ, he LOST the ability to walk on water and sank like a stone. i know i can lose my Salvation, is why i am more adamant about keeping it, my eyes and focus are on Jesus Christ every second of every day, i look away for even a moment, and satan is there waiting to slip in and tempt me to fall. i do not fear i will lose my Salvation, i am confident that IF i continue to keep my thoughts and focus on Jesus Christ, that i will not sink.
Oh my, you willfully deny Christ every single day? Christ is telling you not to do the sin, satan is telling you to commit the sin, when you obey satan and commit the sin, you deny Christ.
What makes it easier for me not to sin, is i believe that every time i obey Jesus' enemy the devil, that i spit in Jesus' face. God forbid. This helps me to NOT sin against Him.
tell me, you say you willfully sin every day. Are you saying you can't possibly cease from those willful sins? Are they so strong that you can't possibly fight them? What then, Jesus did NOT leave you a path out of each one of those sins? Do not include me in your statement "WE willfully sin every day" i want no part with those who knowingly and willingly obey my Masters enemy the devil, unless it is to teach them to STOP doing wicked things all the while claiming with your mouths that you are followers of Jesus Christ. The Word is Correct and True, those who do righteousness are righteous, those who do wickedness are wicked. All sin is wickedness. Those who willfully sin every day, do wickedness every single day, they shall reap what they have sown, there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth when the end of the race is before us.
i teach sin is evil and wicked and we should cease from sinning
are you upset with me because i teach nothing more than what the Word of God teaches also.
how is this generation any different? Do you not excuse your own sinning? it is written the wages of sin is DEATH. But somehow you can continue to live in sin, and still think you are HOLY, PURE, JUST, RIGHTEOUS. who makes excuses for their sins but those who continue to live in them and think they are Fine, still OK with God.?
That is a very good question. It is only at Judgement Day that will determine if a person who claims to be SAVED, will discover if they were ever SAVED. Those who are taken with Him, they are the ones who were Judged as being SAVED, those who were not taken, even though they claim with their mouths they are SAVED, were never SAVED. ie.. Lord lord have we not done -------------, and -------------------, and --------------- and He will say to them i do not know anyone who continues to live in sins. So how can people of this generation continue to live in sins, and still think they are going to be taken up with Christ?
Know you not that all sin is selfishness. STOP pleasing self and focus on only pleasing Jesus Christ, and you will be one of the few who are actually taken up with Him.
Lucifer in Heaven became selfish, he desired to have that which was not his to have. SELFISHNESS. The Kingdom of Heaven kicked out all those who became selfish. The Kingdom of Heaven now ONLY wants those who are not selfish, but LOVE OTHERS and not self. Those who knowingly and willingly sin, are selfish.
difficult, but not impossible. With the help of Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost all things are possible, even that which men say is impossible. So then you concur that what i teach is not easy?
i agree, and that is what i teach as well. whoever is saved does not knowingly and willingly sin. (willful sin)
Agreed. The sins that i teach against are the willful sins, those that are knowingly and willingly committed, are sins unto death. Does the wicked one touch you? i ask that because you said "We willful sin every day" So does the wicked one touch you every single day? he does, if you willful sin every day as you testify. For me, because i do not knowingly and willingly sin, the wicked one does not touch me at all. i hate sin, i hate him, i do not allow him any where around me, he is evil and wicked, and he hates my Master Jesus Christ, he kills those who Truly loves Jesus. Why would i listen to anything that he has to tempt me with? i don't even think he comes around me any more, i think he knows that i have the FULL ARMOR of God on me at all times, that Jesus Christ is my strength and Power against him. i really am not tempted to commit sins any more, i think satan is tired of trying. you see every time he tempts me to commit sin, and i don't, God blesses me with this or that or whatever. So the more satan comes around and tempts me, and i do not obey him, the more blessings i receive of God. So i think satan stops messing with me, and counts me as a loss for his side of the war, because basically all he did when he came around is give me more blessing from God because i refuse to obey him and his temptations, so i think he just leaves me alone now. But i will always have my guard up against him, just in case he comes back around.
DiscipleDave said [/quote]You can't have it both ways eternally-grateful. You say a person is Truely Saved if they have faith in Christ and His Work, you also said a person who desires to sin is NOT SAVED. So then if a person has faith in Christ and His work, yet they desire to commit sins, is that person SAVED or NOT? They claim to be SAVED because of their faith in Christ and His work, but their actions (desire to sin) shows where there heart is. This is why James said Faith and Works go hand in hand. i can have all the faith in Christ and His work. THAT ALONE does not save a person, it Faith and Works go hand in hand. So a person who claim to be SAVED because they have Faith in Jesus and His works, yet they are not abiding in the Word of God, are not SAVED, even though they have faith in Jesus and His works, because his faith is not hand in hand with works, which prove his faith. You said it above, those who desire to sin are not Saved. please read my article on Faith or Works or Both.
[/quote]
That's your answer to a question that i asked you? really?
My faith is in Him who is in me, without Jesus or the Holy Ghost i would not be able to walk in the light as Jesus walked in the light. And nowhere have i said i give this credit to myself, but always gives God the credit. i can't do nothing, when i was tempted to commit sin, it was not my own power that was able to overcome that temptation, it was because i looked to Jesus to give me the Strength and the Power to overcome that temptation, Therefore because i say to you i do not knowingly and willingly commit any sin against Jesus Christ, you think it is all about self. i have never said it is about me, but have clearly testified it is Jesus in me that allows me to walk in the light as He did. Do you error yet again, not understanding the Truth.
Again i can tell you have not read Faith, Works, or Both because if you did, you would know that i teach Faith by itself can not Save a person. you will also know that Works by themselves will not Save a person either.
A person who is Truly SAVED will have good works.
A person who is Truly SAVED will LOVE ONE ANOTHER. and to LOVE ONE ANOTHER is most assuredly WORKS
Those who have 100% faith in Jesus Christ and His works, yet do not have works themselves, is deceived and they know not the Truth
Those who have 100% good works and trying to earn their Salvation likewise are deceived and know not the Truth
Those who have Faith and all their works reveal the LOVE they have ONE FOR ANOTHER, these are they that are Truly Saved, because they have Faith and their works reveals that which is in their heart, the LOVE FOR OTHERS.
^i^
Oh my, you willfully deny Christ every single day? Christ is telling you not to do the sin, satan is telling you to commit the sin, when you obey satan and commit the sin, you deny Christ.
What makes it easier for me not to sin, is i believe that every time i obey Jesus' enemy the devil, that i spit in Jesus' face. God forbid. This helps me to NOT sin against Him.
tell me, you say you willfully sin every day. Are you saying you can't possibly cease from those willful sins? Are they so strong that you can't possibly fight them? What then, Jesus did NOT leave you a path out of each one of those sins? Do not include me in your statement "WE willfully sin every day" i want no part with those who knowingly and willingly obey my Masters enemy the devil, unless it is to teach them to STOP doing wicked things all the while claiming with your mouths that you are followers of Jesus Christ. The Word is Correct and True, those who do righteousness are righteous, those who do wickedness are wicked. All sin is wickedness. Those who willfully sin every day, do wickedness every single day, they shall reap what they have sown, there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth when the end of the race is before us.
i teach sin is evil and wicked and we should cease from sinning
are you upset with me because i teach nothing more than what the Word of God teaches also.
how is this generation any different? Do you not excuse your own sinning? it is written the wages of sin is DEATH. But somehow you can continue to live in sin, and still think you are HOLY, PURE, JUST, RIGHTEOUS. who makes excuses for their sins but those who continue to live in them and think they are Fine, still OK with God.?
That is a very good question. It is only at Judgement Day that will determine if a person who claims to be SAVED, will discover if they were ever SAVED. Those who are taken with Him, they are the ones who were Judged as being SAVED, those who were not taken, even though they claim with their mouths they are SAVED, were never SAVED. ie.. Lord lord have we not done -------------, and -------------------, and --------------- and He will say to them i do not know anyone who continues to live in sins. So how can people of this generation continue to live in sins, and still think they are going to be taken up with Christ?
Know you not that all sin is selfishness. STOP pleasing self and focus on only pleasing Jesus Christ, and you will be one of the few who are actually taken up with Him.
Lucifer in Heaven became selfish, he desired to have that which was not his to have. SELFISHNESS. The Kingdom of Heaven kicked out all those who became selfish. The Kingdom of Heaven now ONLY wants those who are not selfish, but LOVE OTHERS and not self. Those who knowingly and willingly sin, are selfish.
difficult, but not impossible. With the help of Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost all things are possible, even that which men say is impossible. So then you concur that what i teach is not easy?
i agree, and that is what i teach as well. whoever is saved does not knowingly and willingly sin. (willful sin)
Agreed. The sins that i teach against are the willful sins, those that are knowingly and willingly committed, are sins unto death. Does the wicked one touch you? i ask that because you said "We willful sin every day" So does the wicked one touch you every single day? he does, if you willful sin every day as you testify. For me, because i do not knowingly and willingly sin, the wicked one does not touch me at all. i hate sin, i hate him, i do not allow him any where around me, he is evil and wicked, and he hates my Master Jesus Christ, he kills those who Truly loves Jesus. Why would i listen to anything that he has to tempt me with? i don't even think he comes around me any more, i think he knows that i have the FULL ARMOR of God on me at all times, that Jesus Christ is my strength and Power against him. i really am not tempted to commit sins any more, i think satan is tired of trying. you see every time he tempts me to commit sin, and i don't, God blesses me with this or that or whatever. So the more satan comes around and tempts me, and i do not obey him, the more blessings i receive of God. So i think satan stops messing with me, and counts me as a loss for his side of the war, because basically all he did when he came around is give me more blessing from God because i refuse to obey him and his temptations, so i think he just leaves me alone now. But i will always have my guard up against him, just in case he comes back around.
DiscipleDave said [/quote]You can't have it both ways eternally-grateful. You say a person is Truely Saved if they have faith in Christ and His Work, you also said a person who desires to sin is NOT SAVED. So then if a person has faith in Christ and His work, yet they desire to commit sins, is that person SAVED or NOT? They claim to be SAVED because of their faith in Christ and His work, but their actions (desire to sin) shows where there heart is. This is why James said Faith and Works go hand in hand. i can have all the faith in Christ and His work. THAT ALONE does not save a person, it Faith and Works go hand in hand. So a person who claim to be SAVED because they have Faith in Jesus and His works, yet they are not abiding in the Word of God, are not SAVED, even though they have faith in Jesus and His works, because his faith is not hand in hand with works, which prove his faith. You said it above, those who desire to sin are not Saved. please read my article on Faith or Works or Both.
[/quote]
That's your answer to a question that i asked you? really?
My faith is in Him who is in me, without Jesus or the Holy Ghost i would not be able to walk in the light as Jesus walked in the light. And nowhere have i said i give this credit to myself, but always gives God the credit. i can't do nothing, when i was tempted to commit sin, it was not my own power that was able to overcome that temptation, it was because i looked to Jesus to give me the Strength and the Power to overcome that temptation, Therefore because i say to you i do not knowingly and willingly commit any sin against Jesus Christ, you think it is all about self. i have never said it is about me, but have clearly testified it is Jesus in me that allows me to walk in the light as He did. Do you error yet again, not understanding the Truth.
Again i can tell you have not read Faith, Works, or Both because if you did, you would know that i teach Faith by itself can not Save a person. you will also know that Works by themselves will not Save a person either.
A person who is Truly SAVED will have good works.
A person who is Truly SAVED will LOVE ONE ANOTHER. and to LOVE ONE ANOTHER is most assuredly WORKS
Those who have 100% faith in Jesus Christ and His works, yet do not have works themselves, is deceived and they know not the Truth
Those who have 100% good works and trying to earn their Salvation likewise are deceived and know not the Truth
Those who have Faith and all their works reveal the LOVE they have ONE FOR ANOTHER, these are they that are Truly Saved, because they have Faith and their works reveals that which is in their heart, the LOVE FOR OTHERS.
^i^
DiscipleDave said
Deceived how? because you disagree with it, or because the Word of God disagrees with it?
If i decide to eat, i am in sin? If i decide to go to sleep because i am tired i have committed sin? is that what you are suggesting? i do many times decide to do something for self, such as shower, poop, pee, brush my teeth, put on clothes, read the Bible, pray or praise God, i decide to go to Church, i decide many things throughout the day to do for myself, how is any of that sinful? Now i do not do anything that fulfills the lust of my flesh, that would sinful, i do not look upon anything that might cause me to lust and commit sin, i do not even watch TV because of the filth which satan uses to cause people to lust. i have been celibate for over 6 years now. So tell me how have i sinned?
How many times i pee, well that is a lot if you ask me, but i really don't think God will be horrified because of the amount of times i releave my bladder of urine. Why would God be horrified about anything i do on a day to day bases? As i told you, i do all things to please Him, Sure i pee when i have too, and eat when i am hungry, and sleep when i am tired, how does those things horrify God? i do not understand what you are trying to say here, please help my ignorance, i do not understand your point or what you are saying.
Is it not written that our deeds prove what is in our hearts. So then if Jesus is in your heart, the Works of Jesus will be revealed, you will LOVE OTHERS even when they do not deserve to be LOVED by you. You will love your enemies, not because that is something you want to do, but is something you will do because Jesus is in you. God judges our hearts, our Works prove what is in our hearts. Whether we LOVE ONE ANOTHER or don't. Those who Truly have Jesus in their hearts, will have a desire to have Good Works to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, to help the needy, to feed the hungry to clothe the naked, to visit the sick. They will not do those things because they HAVE to do them, they do not do those things to try to earn their way to Heaven, they do those things because Jesus is in them, and that is what HE DOES. Many claim to have Jesus in them, yet they do not feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick, they do nothing at all. Aside from your own family and your own friends, what have you done for others? THAT is LOVING ONE ANOTHER.
Anyone who Truly has Jesus Christ living in their hearts, will have many Works of LOVE TOWARDS ONE ANOTHER.
Anyone can claim to believe in Jesus Christ, even the demons called Him the Son of God and knew who He was, but their works prove to whom they serve. Many claim to believe in Jesus Christ yet all their motives are selfishness, the world revolves around them. Those who Truly LOVE ONE ANOTHER, these are they that know Jesus Christ, for one to LOVE ONE ANOTHER is not possible without Him.
^i^
Deceived how? because you disagree with it, or because the Word of God disagrees with it?
If i decide to eat, i am in sin? If i decide to go to sleep because i am tired i have committed sin? is that what you are suggesting? i do many times decide to do something for self, such as shower, poop, pee, brush my teeth, put on clothes, read the Bible, pray or praise God, i decide to go to Church, i decide many things throughout the day to do for myself, how is any of that sinful? Now i do not do anything that fulfills the lust of my flesh, that would sinful, i do not look upon anything that might cause me to lust and commit sin, i do not even watch TV because of the filth which satan uses to cause people to lust. i have been celibate for over 6 years now. So tell me how have i sinned?
How many times i pee, well that is a lot if you ask me, but i really don't think God will be horrified because of the amount of times i releave my bladder of urine. Why would God be horrified about anything i do on a day to day bases? As i told you, i do all things to please Him, Sure i pee when i have too, and eat when i am hungry, and sleep when i am tired, how does those things horrify God? i do not understand what you are trying to say here, please help my ignorance, i do not understand your point or what you are saying.
Is it not written that our deeds prove what is in our hearts. So then if Jesus is in your heart, the Works of Jesus will be revealed, you will LOVE OTHERS even when they do not deserve to be LOVED by you. You will love your enemies, not because that is something you want to do, but is something you will do because Jesus is in you. God judges our hearts, our Works prove what is in our hearts. Whether we LOVE ONE ANOTHER or don't. Those who Truly have Jesus in their hearts, will have a desire to have Good Works to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, to help the needy, to feed the hungry to clothe the naked, to visit the sick. They will not do those things because they HAVE to do them, they do not do those things to try to earn their way to Heaven, they do those things because Jesus is in them, and that is what HE DOES. Many claim to have Jesus in them, yet they do not feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick, they do nothing at all. Aside from your own family and your own friends, what have you done for others? THAT is LOVING ONE ANOTHER.
Anyone who Truly has Jesus Christ living in their hearts, will have many Works of LOVE TOWARDS ONE ANOTHER.
Anyone can claim to believe in Jesus Christ, even the demons called Him the Son of God and knew who He was, but their works prove to whom they serve. Many claim to believe in Jesus Christ yet all their motives are selfishness, the world revolves around them. Those who Truly LOVE ONE ANOTHER, these are they that know Jesus Christ, for one to LOVE ONE ANOTHER is not possible without Him.
^i^
There is a difference between the word [SUP]1[/SUP]"God" with the capital letter "G" and the word [SUP]2,3,4[/SUP]"god" with a lower case "g".
WordNet Dictionary[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Noun[/TD]
[TD]1.[/TD]
[TD]God - the supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and omniscient originator and ruler of the universe; the object of worship in monotheistic religionsSynonyms: Supreme Being[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]2.[/TD]
[TD]god - any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a forceSynonyms: deity, divinity, immortal[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]3.[/TD]
[TD]god - a man of such superior qualities that he seems like a deity to other people; "he was a god among men"[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4.[/TD]
[TD]god - a material effigy that is worshipped as a god; "thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image"; "money was his god"Synonyms: graven image, idol[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I thought it worth pointing out since it makes a difference in what you are saying (typing).
There is only one God (capital "G") of this world, the Creator.
WordNet Dictionary[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Noun[/TD]
[TD]1.[/TD]
[TD]God - the supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and omniscient originator and ruler of the universe; the object of worship in monotheistic religionsSynonyms: Supreme Being[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]2.[/TD]
[TD]god - any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a forceSynonyms: deity, divinity, immortal[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]3.[/TD]
[TD]god - a man of such superior qualities that he seems like a deity to other people; "he was a god among men"[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4.[/TD]
[TD]god - a material effigy that is worshipped as a god; "thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image"; "money was his god"Synonyms: graven image, idol[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I thought it worth pointing out since it makes a difference in what you are saying (typing).
There is only one God (capital "G") of this world, the Creator.
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E
1. Notice, he has perfected (past tense) those who are being sanctified (I am amazed that so many people ignore this word and this fact)
2. The word "being" is a word which taken in language means an act being completed by someone not done by the person himself
3. Notice most importantly. God is the one who perfected them, and he is the one acting to sanctify them. (it is the work of God. not our work)
when a person is saved, they are as the passage says perfected forever.
They are also sanctified (they become babes in Christ. Some, (Like Paul) will grow to amazing lengths as they allow God to work in their lives. Some will not grow very much at all, and as Paul said to the corinthian church, remain babes for along time, But they will never be less sanctified than BEFORE they got saved.
Some (who claim to have faith) will not change at all, and show no signs of sanctification, which prove they have never been saved at all. because their faith is dead (see James)
E
grr. just looked this over and see a bunch of errors in quoting, to late to fix it so here is a repost. thats the problem with LONG posts. and why I use a idfferent color, easier to see what I post and what someone else posts.
Originally Posted by DiscipleDave
notice they are NOT sanctified already, but are being sanctified.
1. Notice, he has perfected (past tense) those who are being sanctified (I am amazed that so many people ignore this word and this fact)
2. The word "being" is a word which taken in language means an act being completed by someone not done by the person himself
3. Notice most importantly. God is the one who perfected them, and he is the one acting to sanctify them. (it is the work of God. not our work)
when a person is saved, they are as the passage says perfected forever.
They are also sanctified (they become babes in Christ. Some, (Like Paul) will grow to amazing lengths as they allow God to work in their lives. Some will not grow very much at all, and as Paul said to the corinthian church, remain babes for along time, But they will never be less sanctified than BEFORE they got saved.
Some (who claim to have faith) will not change at all, and show no signs of sanctification, which prove they have never been saved at all. because their faith is dead (see James)
It will never be perfect in our lives until we get to heaven, only then will anyone be actually perfect.
Yet the passage says he HAS PERFECTED FOREVER THOSE WHO.
It is called positional sanctification, or perfection, or justification (all words which means perfected) which a person has in Christ (see Eph 1-2)
God does not expect us to be perfect the moment he saves us, We are babes, we must grow and learn to live like him, this does not happen overnight, But as per the word. The blood has been sprinkled on the mercy seat, God no longer sees our sin when it comes to the requirements of the law. it has been "covered" or "Atoned" which is what the OT symbol of the day of atonement represented.
Salvation is not a prize one can earn, nor is eternal life, it is a gift of God. he was not running the race to recieve a gift, he was running to earn a reward (gold silver precious stone, and crowns)
the problem with legalism is they want to take a gift of God, and make it a reward of God, or something earned. And they miss the true meaning of the gospel.
you can run the race from now till you die, and you will never earn the right to br called the sons of God, salvation, eternal life, or the position from being saved from God's wrath at the end, when all is cast to the lake of fire. that is impossible.
again, salvation is not a prise or reward, if you can not understand that, you will never understand the gospel, or the meaning of the cross.
sorry bro, that is just the way it is.
if your not saved, if your not adopted by God into his family, if your not justified by his blood. non of what you said abve will happen or will even matter, because the person is lost with all hope.
that is why so many in that day will cry to Jesus of all their works, and jesus will deny thir works, and say depart, for I never knew you.
"the penalty of sin is death, THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE." Romans 6: 23
John 1:12
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
sorry, But if this was the case, paul would use past tense, he does not speak in the past tense, but the present.
I Want to do (not I wanted)
I can not do (not I could not do)
paul understood that as a pharisee, before christ, he could do not good even if we wanted to, he could not comprehend what good was, everything paul did before he came to cross was for self. thus everything he did was sin.
again wrong.
1. The last part of romans 8: 1 is queestionable at best, and is not reliable (it is missing from MOST doctuments, and is also a repeat prety much of verse 4)
2. eph 1 and 2 states there is no condemnation because of our faith in God
No, it is not the easy way, you are proof of this.
what is HARD is to admit, no matter how good you are, or think you can be, you still deserve eternal damnation. and do not deserve 1 second in the presence of God in a loving manner.
it is hard, because of pride, pride says I can be good enough, pride says I am not a bad person and God wil let me in, Pride says I am more deserving than the sinner,
Humility says I am worthless, and will never be good enough, and get on our hands and knees, unable even to look up at God but beg for Gods mercy,
the pharisee said that was the easy way, (like your doing), yet Jesus said that was the ONLY WAY
I can tell you they were never saved.
In fact you do not even need me to tell you that, Jesus already did.
Matthew 7:23
And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Are you going to sit there and tell me Jesus never knew a person who was saved in a personal matter (as his child)
No, they were not cast our because of sin, they were cast out because jesus never knew them, and because they never knew jesus why? because they were never saved.
they sined because they never knew God. John makes this clear.
1 John 3: [SUP]6 [/SUP]Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
This is too long, I need to cut it short, will finish responding later. But if you get the points above and see them as they are, you do not even need to go on any further.
notice they are NOT sanctified already, but are being sanctified.
1. Notice, he has perfected (past tense) those who are being sanctified (I am amazed that so many people ignore this word and this fact)
2. The word "being" is a word which taken in language means an act being completed by someone not done by the person himself
3. Notice most importantly. God is the one who perfected them, and he is the one acting to sanctify them. (it is the work of God. not our work)
when a person is saved, they are as the passage says perfected forever.
They are also sanctified (they become babes in Christ. Some, (Like Paul) will grow to amazing lengths as they allow God to work in their lives. Some will not grow very much at all, and as Paul said to the corinthian church, remain babes for along time, But they will never be less sanctified than BEFORE they got saved.
Some (who claim to have faith) will not change at all, and show no signs of sanctification, which prove they have never been saved at all. because their faith is dead (see James)
It will never be perfect in our lives until we get to heaven, only then will anyone be actually perfect.
Yet the passage says he HAS PERFECTED FOREVER THOSE WHO.
It is called positional sanctification, or perfection, or justification (all words which means perfected) which a person has in Christ (see Eph 1-2)
God does not expect us to be perfect the moment he saves us, We are babes, we must grow and learn to live like him, this does not happen overnight, But as per the word. The blood has been sprinkled on the mercy seat, God no longer sees our sin when it comes to the requirements of the law. it has been "covered" or "Atoned" which is what the OT symbol of the day of atonement represented.
Salvation is not a prize one can earn, nor is eternal life, it is a gift of God. he was not running the race to recieve a gift, he was running to earn a reward (gold silver precious stone, and crowns)
the problem with legalism is they want to take a gift of God, and make it a reward of God, or something earned. And they miss the true meaning of the gospel.
you can run the race from now till you die, and you will never earn the right to br called the sons of God, salvation, eternal life, or the position from being saved from God's wrath at the end, when all is cast to the lake of fire. that is impossible.
again, salvation is not a prise or reward, if you can not understand that, you will never understand the gospel, or the meaning of the cross.
sorry bro, that is just the way it is.
if your not saved, if your not adopted by God into his family, if your not justified by his blood. non of what you said abve will happen or will even matter, because the person is lost with all hope.
that is why so many in that day will cry to Jesus of all their works, and jesus will deny thir works, and say depart, for I never knew you.
"the penalty of sin is death, THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE." Romans 6: 23
John 1:12
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
sorry, But if this was the case, paul would use past tense, he does not speak in the past tense, but the present.
I Want to do (not I wanted)
I can not do (not I could not do)
paul understood that as a pharisee, before christ, he could do not good even if we wanted to, he could not comprehend what good was, everything paul did before he came to cross was for self. thus everything he did was sin.
again wrong.
1. The last part of romans 8: 1 is queestionable at best, and is not reliable (it is missing from MOST doctuments, and is also a repeat prety much of verse 4)
2. eph 1 and 2 states there is no condemnation because of our faith in God
No, it is not the easy way, you are proof of this.
what is HARD is to admit, no matter how good you are, or think you can be, you still deserve eternal damnation. and do not deserve 1 second in the presence of God in a loving manner.
it is hard, because of pride, pride says I can be good enough, pride says I am not a bad person and God wil let me in, Pride says I am more deserving than the sinner,
Humility says I am worthless, and will never be good enough, and get on our hands and knees, unable even to look up at God but beg for Gods mercy,
the pharisee said that was the easy way, (like your doing), yet Jesus said that was the ONLY WAY
I can tell you they were never saved.
In fact you do not even need me to tell you that, Jesus already did.
Matthew 7:23
And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Are you going to sit there and tell me Jesus never knew a person who was saved in a personal matter (as his child)
No, they were not cast our because of sin, they were cast out because jesus never knew them, and because they never knew jesus why? because they were never saved.
they sined because they never knew God. John makes this clear.
1 John 3: [SUP]6 [/SUP]Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
This is too long, I need to cut it short, will finish responding later. But if you get the points above and see them as they are, you do not even need to go on any further.