Can a Christian lose their salvation? Unsure.

[SeaBass]

You just contradicted yourself

You can not in one breath say IN CHRIST. and then in the next, claim it is IN YOURSELF (your ability to do whatever you say one must do)

You do not believe in the power of God. You believe in the power of SeaBass

If man desires to stand before God as righteous then man must choose to obey the gospel being baptized into Christ.

Man alone can never stand before God righteous but MUST be in Christ and be in Christ by being baptized in Christ and putting on Christ, put on His perfect righteousness.


So man's role in his own salvation is to get in and put on Christ, this is not forced upon any one by God it's done by choice of men.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jn 6:66 "From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him."

The pronoun "his" modifies 'disciples" so they were Christ's disciples, not fake, pretend disciples but actually, in reality were Christ's disciples, with "his" showing possession. If they were not then John lied when he called them "his" disciples.


My question was if it were possible one could quit fellowshipping God and still be saved, then why could not those disciples OF CHRIST in Jn 6:66 still be saved even though they quit fellowshipping Christ?

Where these people ever saved? They did not believe. He said this himself.

[SUP]61 [/SUP]When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? [SUP]62 [/SUP]What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? [SUP]63 [/SUP]It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. [SUP]64 [/SUP]But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. [SUP]65 [/SUP]And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

[SUP]66 [/SUP]From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. [SUP]67 [/SUP]Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”


This is what Jesus said about those who did believe. vs those who did not believe

[SUP]35 [/SUP]And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. [SUP]36 [/SUP]But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. [SUP]37 [/SUP]All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. [SUP]38 [/SUP]For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. [SUP]39 [/SUP]This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.[SUP]40 [/SUP]And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”


try reading context. and not take a verse out of context. and you will see.

 

[SeaBass]

Yes it will, if the wife forgives and he repents.

Absolutely, if the Christian falls out of fellowship with God and turns to fellowship Satan then he will be lost UNLESS he CONDITIONALLY repents and turns back to God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If man desires to stand before God as righteous then man must choose to obey the gospel being baptized into Christ.

Man alone can never stand before God righteous but MUST be in Christ and be in Christ by being baptized in Christ and putting on Christ, put on His perfect righteousness.


So man's role in his own salvation is to get in and put on Christ, this is not forced upon any one by God it's done by choice of men.

yep. and how is this done?

Believe in the name of Christ and you will be saved.

You will have eternal life

it is not done by trying to be good. or trying to stay perfect. It is done by faith in Christ.

 

[SeaBass]

1. A christian can not leave God, He is omniscient, He promised 1. never to leave NOR FORSAKE US. 2. He would leave the 99 sheep. and go get the lost sheep.

You give yourself to much credit, you are not more powerful from God that you can leave his presence.

2. The prodigal never stopped being the son, He was still the son. thats is all that matters.

he did not become spiritually dead, He was STILL the fathers son. He lost fellowship. and his life went to hell. (which caused him to come back, like it does us all) but he never stopped being the son.

NO verse says it is impossible for a Christian to become unfaithful and turn from God. The bible is full of warnings/admonishments to Christians to NOT turn from God, fall and be lost.

One can be a son but lost, a lost erring child of God.

Lk 15:32 "It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found."

--The prodigal was dead and is alive again. For him to be alive again must mean he was alive before. So he was spiritually alive, died spiritually then alive AGAIN spiritually.

--why does the father describe the son as being "lost" if he never really was lost? How can he be 'found' if he was never lost?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

NO verse says it is impossible for a Christian to become unfaithful and turn from God. The bible is full of warnings/admonishments to Christian NOT to turn from God, fall and be lost.

One can be a son but lost, a lost erring child of God.

Lk 15:32 "It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found."

--The prodigal was dead and is alive again. For him to be alive again must mean he was alive before. So he was spiritually alive, died spiritually then alive AGAIN spiritually.

--why does the father describe the son as being "lost" if he never really was lost? How can he be 'found' if he was never lost?

He never stopped being called the son.

if he died, he would have been resurrected, and all his rewards burnt as wood hey and straw. but he was still the fathers son. (as paul said, he would still be saved, even as through fire)

again, are you more powerful than God?

 

[SeaBass]

Where these people ever saved? They did not believe. He said this himself.

[SUP]61 [/SUP]When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? [SUP]62 [/SUP]What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? [SUP]63 [/SUP]It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. [SUP]64 [/SUP]But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. [SUP]65 [/SUP]And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

[SUP]66 [/SUP]From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. [SUP]67 [/SUP]Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”


This is what Jesus said about those who did believe. vs those who did not believe

[SUP]35 [/SUP]And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. [SUP]36 [/SUP]But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. [SUP]37 [/SUP]All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. [SUP]38 [/SUP]For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. [SUP]39 [/SUP]This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.[SUP]40 [/SUP]And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”


try reading context. and not take a verse out of context. and you will see.

--why does the context call them "His" disciples if they were not?

--Christ foreknew 'some' of them believed not. For one to be a disciple of Christ and remain a disciple requires a present tense belief and Christ foreknew some would not maintain a present tense belief, He foreknew some would not continue in His word, Jn 8:31 and not be a "disciple indeed".

 

[SeaBass]

yep. and how is this done?

Believe in the name of Christ and you will be saved.

You will have eternal life

it is not done by trying to be good. or trying to stay perfect. It is done by faith in Christ.

Acts 2:41,44; Mk 16:16 belief includes baptism and it is baptism where one "puts on" Christ.

Juust being good will not put one in Christ but obedience to Christ in submitting to baptism as Christ said to.

 

[SeaBass]

He never stopped being called the son.

if he died, he would have been resurrected, and all his rewards burnt as wood hey and straw. but he was still the fathers son. (as paul said, he would still be saved, even as through fire)

again, are you more powerful than God?

He never stopped being the father's physical son even though he became lost, spiritually dead.

So why does the father call his son "lost" if never was lost?

 

[1joseph]

Acts 2:41,44; Mk 16:16 belief includes baptism and it is baptism where one "puts on" Christ.

Juust being good will not put one in Christ but obedience to Christ in submitting to baptism as Christ said to.

SeaBass, Have you ever received the Holy Spirit into your heart---have you felt God's Spirit come into you?

 

[notuptome]

Yes it will, if the wife forgives and he repents.

It may require penance like flowers and candy. He will repent until the next time. She will forgive until the next time. My wife almost has me perfected after forty years.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

--why does the context call them "His" disciples if they were not?

--Christ foreknew 'some' of them believed not. For one to be a disciple of Christ and remain a disciple requires a present tense belief and Christ foreknew some would not maintain a present tense belief, He foreknew some would not continue in His word, Jn 8:31 and not be a "disciple indeed".

lol.. Just because someone is his disciple does not mean they were ever saved. John wrote it.

Are you going to deny what Jesus said.

"YOU DO NOT BELIEVE."

How can one ever be saved, IF THEY NEVER BELIEVED?

Disciple means a follower. thats all. It does not mean a follower was ever saved.

Not to mention. You ignored what he said would be done for those who DO BELIEVE.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Acts 2:41,44; Mk 16:16 belief includes baptism and it is baptism where one "puts on" Christ.

Juust being good will not put one in Christ but obedience to Christ in submitting to baptism as Christ said to.

Salvation is not by works.

Stop trying to save yourself. and let God save you.

 

[notuptome]

A man or woman can divorce in regards to infidelity. Then they have the right to remarry unless they choose to stay married.

God has established a pattern of faithfulness even to Israel when they went a whoring after false gods.

God is not going to move away but will draw us back.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

SeaBass, Have you ever received the Holy Spirit into your heart---have you felt God's Spirit come into you?

Yes, the Spirit through His words indwells in me daily, Col 3:16.

But I do not have to be a Christian to see that the bible teaches that salvation is conditional.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He never stopped being the father's physical son even though he became lost, spiritually dead.

So why does the father call his son "lost" if never was lost?

He was lost. He was away from his fathers blessings, He was dead because he had to suppoet himself (how good does that do anyone who is apart from God)

As you said, he never stopped being the fathers physical son. I did not save myself ad adopt myself. God adopted me.

I would never stop being his son.

 

[SeaBass]

lol.. Just because someone is his disciple does not mean they were ever saved. John wrote it.

Are you going to deny what Jesus said.

"YOU DO NOT BELIEVE."

How can one ever be saved, IF THEY NEVER BELIEVED?

Disciple means a follower. thats all. It does not mean a follower was ever saved.

Not to mention. You ignored what he said would be done for those who DO BELIEVE.

Christ foreknew "some" of you do not have a present tense belief.

Jn 8:30 say many of them "believed" on Him yet v45 says "ye believe me not". A contradiction?

It is possible one can believe but not maintain a correct and present tense belief.

 

[SeaBass]

Salvation is not by works.

Stop trying to save yourself. and let God save you.

By works a man is justified, James 2:24

save yourselves, Acts 2:40
save thyself, 1 Tim 4:16
cleanse ourselves, 2 cor 7:1
if a man therefore purge himself, 2 Tim 2:21
ye have purified your souls, 1 Pet 1:22

God will not save those who do not fulfill their role in being saved.

 

[SeaBass]

He was lost. He was away from his fathers blessings, He was dead because he had to suppoet himself (how good does that do anyone who is apart from God)

As you said, he never stopped being the fathers physical son. I did not save myself ad adopt myself. God adopted me.

I would never stop being his son.

You say "he was lost" which is not possible if eternal security were true..not possible for him to ever be dead if eternal security is true.

Num 14:12 God has and will disinherit His sons.

 

[notuptome]

Yes, the Spirit through His words indwells in me daily, Col 3:16.

But I do not have to be a Christian to see that the bible teaches that salvation is conditional.

This is quite the change for you. Although it seems a bit deceptive since you qualify the Holy Spirits presence as in the word. You cannot fool God as He alone sees into your heart.

The bible disagrees with you in that only the Spiritual man can discern Spiritual things.

For the cause of Christ
Roger