Can deity die?

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notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#221
May 17, 2013
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#221
john832 said:
Right here...

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Ecc 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Oh wait, it says the exact opposite. The dead are unconscious until the resurrection.
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Dead people certainly labor no more in this life. Anything beyond that would be speculation were it not for Gods word. My body may one day rest in the grave but the parts of me that are spirit and soul will be in the presence of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I rely on Paul writing by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit for me to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#222
Jul 28, 2012
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#222
peacefulbeliever said:
Okay . . . .I said - punctuation does not change the "inspired words" . . . . .

what is it that you are trying to prove? You are not deriving any of the above from the original MSS. The above is not in running script - there are breaks and there is punctuation - not in any original MSS. Still man's addition . . . and it's okay that we disagree here
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Here are a couple of other example of the same grammatical structure. Tell me where you think the comma should go in these verses.
Luke 19:9 And Jesus said unto him Today is salvation come to this house
Heb. 3:7Wherefore as the Holy Ghost says Today if ye will hear his voice
 
C

cjordan38

Guest
#223
#223
No my friend didnt the word say the Father and I arenone so all the questions he was able to ask was from the father. You recieve knowledge and wisdom from from the father. But power you recieve from the Holy Ghost. Jesus wasnt able to preform a healing without the Holy Ghost. Before the Holy Gosht came upon him like a Dove Jesus was sustained by God. Not to mention from the womb he was fed and nourished by God. He didnt have the Holy Ghost until he got baptized by John. Show me in the word where it states Jesus had the Holy Ghost before that.
 
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RuthHannah

Banned
#224
Nov 26, 2013
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oldhermit said:
You are making an unwarranted assumption about this parable. All of Jesus parables use pragmatic scenarios and his points are always proven buy the details of the parable. BTW, there is nothing to suggest that this is a parable. Jesus never gives names to any characters in any of his other illustrations. Not only that but Jesus is also revealing the presence of a well known historical character - Abraham. This is much different than any of his parables.

He are not told this in scripture.

We are not given this information either.
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i like you answer

Adam was given his spirit as a man yet the bible say


Psalm 139:13-17

King James Version (KJV)

13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
17 How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!


Does that mean Adam spirit was concious in a spiritual realm and awaitng to jump into his body :)

The bible say both the righteous and the wicked person spirit goes back to God when they die in the heavens from whence it came .

Does that mean when they go there that they are concious of anything , i honetly think not




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oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#225
Jul 28, 2012
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#225
john832 said:
You are saying that they didn't have them but they used them?

C'mon, I was born at night but it wasn't last night.
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If you do not agree with me on this matter let me suggest that you go the B-Greek website (it is a free site) and present this question to the scholars on that site. Ask them what they think about where the punctuation belongs in this verse. I promise you, you will get a top level scholarly answer.
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#226
Feb 21, 2012
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#226
oldhermit said:
You seem to be missing the point. The fact that the original MSS contained not breaks or punctuation does not mean that these rules were not understood. You do not seem to be well versed in the language. If you do not agree with me on this matter let me suggest that you go the B-Greek website (it is a free site) and present this question to the scholars on that site. Ask them what they think about where the punctuation belongs in this verse. I promise you, you will get a top level scholarly answer.
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It's not as if I don't study before I post ANYTHING in response to any post. "A top level scholarly answer" - I may not be a scholar but I do know - if Jesus didn't go to paradise "to day" then the thief didn't either. It is meant to be a promise to the thief that he will be in paradise - just as I am not actually "seated in the heavenlies" at this moment but I do know that I will be. But thank you for the reference site. :)
 
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RuthHannah

Banned
#227
Nov 26, 2013
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#227
cjordan38 said:
No my friend didnt the word say the Father and I arenone so all the questions he was able to ask was from the father. You recieve knowledge and wisdom from from the father. But power you recieve from the Holy Ghost. Jesus wasnt able to preform a healing without the Holy Ghost. Before the Holy Gosht came upon him like a Dove Jesus was sustained by God. Not to mention from the womb he was fed and nourished by God. He didnt have the Holy Ghost until he got baptized by John. Show me in the word where it states Jesus had the Holy Ghost before that.
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Did John have the Holy Spirit from the womb ?

Is Jesus greater than John ?

What did he eat ?

Why are ther not healing and raising the dead today as in the day of the apostles ?
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

Senior Member
#228
Oct 6, 2011
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#228
iamsoandso said:
there is also the words of peter that bear light on the same matter in acts 2;34,"David is not ascended unto the heavens",,,so at that time/time frame David had not yet been raised/resurrected but still awaited it,he was still in the grave/state of corruption(acts 2;29),,,,now this is some time after the cross and Resurrection of Jesus. Jesus as he also states in acts did not suffer corruption(flesh returning to soil) as stated by David.,,but the point is that David himself was still in the grave and not yet resurrected.

in 1st cor.15;40-52 Paul explains there are different bodies sown,,the corruptible(decays,returns to soil) and the incorruptible(raised in a state where it does not decay/return to the soil) so then a body that cannot die. this it seems is the final creature we are to be.
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here is Paul's reasoning for this (1cor.15;54),,"then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,death is swallowed up in victory",,again he states the same in (1stcor.15;25-26) "for he must reign(kingdom)till he hath put all enemies under his feet.the last enemy that shall be destroyed is DEATH.

see Revelations 21;4,,,"and there shall be no more death",,and then consider 1cor 15;50,,,"flesh and blood cannot inherit the KINGDOM OF GOD",,,so those who are,,raised/resurrected in the incorruptible body are the only ones who can inherit the kingdom.,,,all others accept Jesus who is the first born of the dead are awaiting this.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#229
#229
RuthHannah said:
What about the wicked are they also present with the Lord ?
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Nope, they are still spiritually dead, having never been born again. Thus are in hades. Awaiting to be delievered to the Lord on judgement day
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#230
Jul 28, 2012
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#230
peacefulbeliever said:
It's not as if I don't study before I post ANYTHING in response to any post. "A top level scholarly answer" - I may not be a scholar but I do know - if Jesus didn't go to paradise "to day" then the thief didn't either. It is meant to be a promise to the thief that he will be in paradise - just as I am not actually "seated in the heavenlies" at this moment but I do know that I will be. But thank you for the reference site. :)
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You are allowing your theology to drive your reading of the text. Try allowing the text to guide your theology.
 
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stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#231
Nov 24, 2013
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#231
cjordan38 said:
No my friend didnt the word say the Father and I arenone so all the questions he was able to ask was from the father. You recieve knowledge and wisdom from from the father. But power you recieve from the Holy Ghost. Jesus wasnt able to preform a healing without the Holy Ghost. Before the Holy Gosht came upon him like a Dove Jesus was sustained by God. Not to mention from the womb he was fed and nourished by God. He didnt have the Holy Ghost until he got baptized by John. Show me in the word where it states Jesus had the Holy Ghost before that.
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I think you have some misunderstanding here. He was anointed for ministry at His baptism. I also believe this is more for His body, than for Himself. After all, He is one with Father, and with Holy Spirit.

He said His water baptism was to fulfill all rightousness. He is our pattern.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#232
#232
peacefulbeliever said:
Oh. . . I thought is was appointed for man to die once. Okay. . . .
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What does this have to do with spiritual death. Do you understand what it means to be born dead?

When do we put off this earthly "house" - I believe it's when this corruptible shall put on incorruptible and/or this mortal shall put on immortality. . .I thought that was when we were resurrected? If we are already there - what need is there of a resurrection?
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do you want a new body? or continue to just be a spirit?

Ummmm, what do I do with this: And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. . . even so must the Son of man be lifted up - speaking of his resurrection.
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What do we do with it? It does not negate my belief.
 
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RuthHannah

Banned
#233
Nov 26, 2013
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#233
stonesoffire said:
I think you have some misunderstanding here. He was anointed for ministry at His baptism. I also believe this is more for His body, than for Himself. After all, He is one with Father, and with Holy Spirit.

He said His water baptism was to fulfill all rightousness. He is our pattern.
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that is what people dont understand He is God the Son and had the Holy Spirit in Him at the womb how was He able to fight off temptations of the devil in His youth
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

Senior Member
#234
Oct 6, 2011
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#234
in post 228 should end "all others that accept",,,im past the 5 min.,,,lol
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#235
Nov 24, 2013
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#235
He has His Fathers bloodline. Eternal DNA.

Hard for our minds to wrap around. :)

Response to RuthHannah...forgot to hit the reply with quote.
 
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RuthHannah

Banned
#236
Nov 26, 2013
737
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#236
eternally-gratefull said:
Nope, they are still spiritually dead, having never been born again. Thus are in hades. Awaiting to be delievered to the Lord on judgement day
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Please shew me wher it say the wicked go to hades
Ecclesiastes 3:19-21

King James Version (KJV)

19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward,( Both wicked and righteous ) and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Add parallel
Ecclesiastes 12:7

King James Version (KJV)

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Both the righteous and the wicked spirit





 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#237
#237
RuthHannah said:
Please shew me where it say the wicked go to hades
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Where else would they go? Since they are dead to God. they can not go to be with God. They will not enter the presence of God until they are delievered to God for final judgment.
 
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cjordan38

Guest
#238
#238
No John didnt. From birth the power of God wasnupon him. What sense wouldnit make if Jesus already had the Holy Ghost and then recive it again?John is greater than Jesus but Jesus is the mightiest. John and Jesus are in their own categories. Healings are going on today. But people are not right with God sonthese things dont really happen. Plus by his stripes we are healed.
 
J

john832

Senior Member
#239
May 31, 2013
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#239
oldhermit said:
If you do not agree with me on this matter let me suggest that you go the B-Greek website (it is a free site) and present this question to the scholars on that site. Ask them what they think about where the punctuation belongs in this verse. I promise you, you will get a top level scholarly answer.
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I frankly don't care what they think. When a comma that was inserted hundreds of years after the original contradicts other plain scriptures, I don't need an expert to tell me what they think it means.
 
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cjordan38

Guest
#240
#240
No misunderstanding. He did notnhave the Holy Ghost until the baptism occured. Why would he walk around with the Holy Ghost then recieve it again? Yes Jesus was anointed by the Holy Ghost From birth but did not have iit until the baptism.
 
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