Can deity die?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#261
Jul 28, 2012
9,144
613
113
70
Alabama
#261
RuthHannah said:



What does Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom means ? Was the thief wrong ?

Luke 23:40-43

King James Version (KJV)

40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeingthou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me inparadise.

2 Timothy 4:1

King James Version (KJV)

4 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom
Click to expand...
I am not understanding your question. Wrong about what?
 
R

RuthHannah

Banned
#262
Nov 26, 2013
737
2
0
#262
NWL said:
It is my belief that the Holy Spirit is from God, I'm not sure what you mean by of God.


Yes they do have a Spirit, but not in the sense you might think. They have a spirit meaning they have a life-force. Angels themselves are spirit creatures, having spirit bodies instead of bodies of flesh.

Why do yo ask?
Click to expand...


God is a Spirit with a Holy Spirit The bible call the Holy Spirit the Spirit of God and Christ
 
R

RuthHannah

Banned
#263
Nov 26, 2013
737
2
0
#263
oldhermit said:
I am not understanding your question. Wrong about what?
Click to expand...
Was what the thief siad wrong about when Jesus comes with His kingdom ?
has Jesus kingdom come as yet ?
is paradise also refered t o as the Kingdom ?
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#264
Jul 28, 2012
9,144
613
113
70
Alabama
#264
john832 said:
Uh, do you believe that the Word of God is wide open for all to understand today?

Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

So don't tell me about scholarship being valid credentials.
Click to expand...
Without scholarship, you and I would never be able to read this book. They are the ones who put the Greek text into language we can read and comprehend. I can read the Greek but, I would never be skilled enough to translate the text into another language. This takes real scholarship.
 
C

cjordan38

Guest
#265
#265
The Holy Spirit is your Keeper and for power. Acts says that after you recieve the Hooy Ghost you shall recieve power. It doesnt say you shall minister. The word says you shall be a witness to Judah and preform a work. It says recieve and occupy youreelf. To recieve the Holy Ghost you recieve Power.An anointing is used to break yolks. Sjow me in the word where it says the Holy Ghost shall fulfill your ministry.
 
C

cjordan38

Guest
#267
#267
The word said your kingdom comes eveyday
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#268
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#268
uh...power to witness is the same thing as ministering. We all have the ministry of sharing the gospel. The ministry of reconciliation.

Act 1:8
 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
later peoples!
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#270
Jul 28, 2012
9,144
613
113
70
Alabama
#270
RuthHannah said:
Was what the thief siad wrong about when Jesus comes with His kingdom ?
has Jesus kingdom come as yet ?
is paradise also refered t o as the Kingdom ?
Click to expand...
The root of this question is how does one understand what the kingdom is. Since Jesus responded to the thief's request concerning the kingdom by saying "Today you will be with me in Paradise," this tells us there is something about the state of Paradise that is connected with his kingdom. The reason most people do not understand the connection is because they do not understand the biblical concept of the kingdom. When the fundamental principles of one theology and eschatology are flawed this creates difficulties in their application and harmony of scripture.
 
R

RuthHannah

Banned
#271
Nov 26, 2013
737
2
0
#271
oldhermit said:
The root of this question is how does one understand what the kingdom is. Since Jesus responded to the thief's request concerning the kingdom by saying "Today you will be with me in Paradise," this tells us there is something about the state of Paradise that is connected with his kingdom. The reason most people do not understand the connection is because they do not understand the biblical concept of the kingdom. When the fundamental principles of one theology and eschatology are flawed this creates difficulties in their application and harmony of scripture.
Click to expand...

The eschato whattt
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#272
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#272
oldhermit said:
Here are a couple of other example of the same grammatical structure. Tell me where you think the comma should go in these verses.
Luke 19:9 And Jesus said unto him Today is salvation come to this house
Heb. 3:7Wherefore as the Holy Ghost says Today if ye will hear his voice
Click to expand...
And Jesus said unto him, today is salvation come to this house - salvation did come to his house "that day" in the presence of Jesus Christ
Wherefore as the Holy Spirit says, to day if you will hear his voice - it was available to hear the holy Spirit's voice "that day"

But, whole other context - Jesus did not go to paradise "that day"; therefore the thief could not be with him there "that day" - 3 days he had to stay in the ground - forty days he showed himself to the disciples -

thanks and God bless :)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#275
#275
peacefulbeliever said:
And Jesus said unto him, today is salvation come to this house - salvation did come to his house "that day" in the presence of Jesus Christ
Wherefore as the Holy Spirit says, to day if you will hear his voice - it was available to hear the holy Spirit's voice "that day"

But, whole other context - Jesus did not go to paradise "that day"; therefore the thief could not be with him there "that day" - 3 days he had to stay in the ground - forty days he showed himself to the disciples -

thanks and God bless :)
Click to expand...
This is all based on speculation. If one assumes he did not go to paradise. then you would be right.

But we should not base our theology on assumptions..

Again, For Jesus to say today, meaning I am telling you today. Not that literally today. Would make no sense. He would be adding a word which

1. Would cause confusion (as we see proved here)
2. Does not add to anything he said (he could have plainly left the word today out)

now for a flawed person like me, adding words which do not need to be added, I can see it. But for the son of man himself to do this. I can not see it.
 
N

NWL

Senior Member
#276
Jul 24, 2012
433
9
18
#276
oldhermit said:
Please do not think that I am trying to be antagonistic but, let me ask you this. Do you believe that the entire body of linguistic scholarship has missed it and you know better than they how punctuation should be applied in this text? Here are a couple of other example of the exact same grammatical Greek structure. Tell me where you think the comma should go in these verses.
Click to expand...
The subject in hand has nothing to do with ones credentials. Scholars at times can be biased based on personal beliefs. In tricky situations like this they themselves decide what they think the scripture is trying to say or express, and this is where the personal beliefs come into it. The fact of the matter is that based on context it makes perfect sense that the comma should be placed after today and not before it.

The Emphasized Bible by Joseph B. Rotherham "...Verily I say unto thee this day: With me shalt thou be in Paradise..."

And the footnote for Luke 23:43 in Lamsa's translation admits: "...Ancient texts were not punctuated. The comma could come before or after today...."

The Concordant Literal New Testament renders it: "...And Jesus said to him, 'Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise...'"

2001 Translation – An American English Bible: "...And [Jesus] replied, `I tell you this today; you will be with me in Paradise....'
The word ᾅδης literally means "to not see"
Click to expand...
Yes I know also yes I understand what Hades means, and I understand lots of people think Lazarus parable was literal, if this was the place Jesus was referring to in luke 23:43 could you show me a scripture which then links both the Paradise of Luke 23:43 and that of the Bibles Hades/Hell being the same place please. By doing so is the only way your teaching holds together, from what I know there's no verse that show such a thing, so don't know how you came up with the thought. Many thanks ;)
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#278
Jul 28, 2012
9,144
613
113
70
Alabama
#278
peacefulbeliever said:
And Jesus said unto him, today is salvation come to this house - salvation did come to his house "that day" in the presence of Jesus Christ
Wherefore as the Holy Spirit says, to day if you will hear his voice - it was available to hear the holy Spirit's voice "that day"

But, whole other context - Jesus did not go to paradise "that day"; therefore the thief could not be with him there "that day" - 3 days he had to stay in the ground - forty days he showed himself to the disciples -

thanks and God bless :)
Click to expand...
You answered your own question when you properly placed the commas in the two example texts. The same rules you used to apply those commas apply to Luke 23:43 as well but, you do not like this because it does not agree with your theology. The text is correct. Your theology is not.
 
R

RuthHannah

Banned
#279
Nov 26, 2013
737
2
0
#279
eternally-gratefull said:
This is all based on speculation. If one assumes he did not go to paradise. then you would be right.

But we should not base our theology on assumptions..

Again, For Jesus to say today, meaning I am telling you today. Not that literally today. Would make no sense. He would be adding a word which

1. Would cause confusion (as we see proved here)
2. Does not add to anything he said (he could have plainly left the word today out)

now for a flawed person like me, adding words which do not need to be added, I can see it. But for the son of man himself to do this. I can not see it.
Click to expand...

Did the thief eventually died ?

When was He resurected ? or was he resurected at all ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.